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Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 shot down by SAM
Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2014-07-19 10:18:03
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/07/18/infowars_russian_media_mh17_ukraine
The Infowar Rages in Moscow
From flying corpses to Spanish air traffic controllers, Russian media are doing their best to muddy the waters around what happened to MH17.
BY ALEC LUHN JULY 18, 2014 Quote: MOSCOW — One of the first of the various bizarre theories to emerge from the Russian media's coverage of the Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 downing was also one of the most outlandish: the Tale of the Spanish Dispatcher.
The night of the disaster, a certain "Carlos," presenting himself as a Spanish air traffic controller working in Kiev, began Tweeting in Spanish that Ukrainian jets, rather than separatists on the ground, had shot down the passenger plane. Russian media took the bait: "Spanish dispatcher: Two Ukrainian warplanes were near the Boeing before its disappearance," read the headline on the Kremlin's most propagandistic news outlet, Russia Today. Several major news outlets also picked up the story with similar headlines, including state channel Rossiya 24, the Defense Ministry's Zvezda channel, and popular newspapers like Komsomolskaya Pravda and Rossiiskaya Gazeta, the official mouthpiece of the Russian government. Others even speculated that Ukrainian forces had been trying to shoot down the Russian presidential jet, which supposedly had crossed paths with MH17 earlier that day.
Between news broadcasts, Rossiya 24 added fuel to the fire by airing a segment about Siberian Air Flight 1812, which Ukraine admitted was accidentally shot down by its fighter jets over the Black Sea in 2001.
By the next day, Ukrainian and Western journalists had revealed "Carlos's" account, which has since been deleted, to be a fake. (The Spanish embassy said this Twitter user had been active during the Kiev protests but denied that any Spanish air traffic controller was in Ukraine.) Even Igor Korotchenko, editor of the Russian journal National Defense, argued the plane had not been shot down by fighter jets. No matter. The work was done: the narrative of events had already been muddied.
Russian media coverage of the event has unfolded like a noir detective story, with a nefarious plot twist emerging at every turn. On Russian television and Twitter, wave after wave of theories have emerged, blaming Kiev and other unseen enemies in a frenzy of conspiracy that seems calculated to obscure the truth about MH17 rather than reveal it.
"Because the Kremlin feels like an accessory to this event, the mass media is working in step, stressing different points to distract attention from the Kremlin," said Oleg Kozyrev, a popular opposition-friendly blogger and media analyst in Moscow. "Or, if that doesn't work, at least to talk around the topic, to make viewers think this is not all so clear-cut, that maybe it wasn't the separatists."
A Friday newscast on Rossiya 1 quoted a defense analyst arguing MH17 was shot down by a surface-to-air missile. The channel quickly jumped, however, to Defense Ministry spokesman Aleksey Komarov claiming that not only had Ukrainian military surface-to-air missiles been deployed to Donetsk, the region in eastern Ukraine over which the plane went down, but also missile-equipped aircraft -- hinting once again that Ukrainian fighter jets had shot it down.
On its broadcast, Rossiya 24 quoted a report by the popular news site Lifenews, notorious for its publish-first-ask-questions-later approach, arguing that the "plane could have come under anti-aircraft fire because it deviated from its planned route." (Pro-Kremlin media impresario Konstantin Rykov and others claimed on Twitter that the flight had gone 300 kilometers off route.) Malaysia Airlines said on Thursday that MH17's route had been approved by Eurocontrol, the top supervisory body, and was often flown by other planes. Another plane was even flying the route when MH17 was hit, it said.
A bizarre article on the website for Rossiya 24 mused on how many "assumptions and open fakes" had been drummed up to explain the air catastrophe, including the discredited Spanish dispatcher story. Yet it then waded into an incredible tale, put forth on Russia's VK social network relaying messages from Igor Strelkov, the leader of the separatist armed forces and a former Russian intelligence officer. It alleged that "a significant portion of the corpses weren't fresh" on the plane, hinting at a wide-ranging conspiracy to discredit his forces. Rossiya called the tale "impossible to believe" but nonetheless said it had come from a "clear-thinking military man."
"Of course, medical experts will be able to determine the exact time of the Boeing passengers' and crew's death," the Rossiya article read. "However, the fact that the passports picked up by locals after the crash were clean, as if they were fresh from the printing press, cannot but surprise us."
In the information war between Kiev and Moscow, the Ukrainian media has been similarly bombastic in seeing Putin's hand in the accident. But in Russia, the government controls all nationwide television news channels: in recent months, several prominent independent news sources have been saddled with pro-Kremlin executives or limited in their distribution. The Russian media's first task is one of patriotic servitude rather than fact-finding, says political analyst Alexei Makarkin. "The majority of the mass media see themselves as protecting interests of country, of Russia," he says. "This is contradictory to the Western approach, where they try to consider all different opinions."
State television has brought on a recurring cast of characters to peddle the Kremlin MH17 line. Broadcasters have aired repeated statements by President Vladimir Putin, who, in a clear dig at Kiev, argued that the catastrophe never would have happened if "hostilities had not resumed in southeast Ukraine." Also in heavy rotation was Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, who dismissed Kiev's accusations that Russia was behind the downing of the plane by arguing he hadn't "heard any truthful statements from Kiev over the past few months," as well as Korotchenko and Komarov suggesting the Ukrainian military had likely fired on the civilian flight.
As long as foolproof evidence of the culprit remains elusive, Moscow will continue be able to "deny and debate the story" of the downed flight, Makarkin says. "It must be proven 100 percent for Russia to admit its guilt in supporting the rebels."
Pro-Kremlin commentators argued the media's mostly unsubstantiated musings were in the spirit of raising essential questions and debate, bristling at what they saw as premature Western condemnation of Russia's role in the crash. "Why hold investigations, collect evidence, conduct analyses if the guilty party has already been decreed. It's some kind of farce, not a session," influential Rossiya 1 host Vladimir Solovyov Tweeted during the U.N. Security Council meeting on Friday.
But until the truth is known conclusively, the war to claim it continues on Moscow's airwaves. By the 11 p.m. newscast on Friday, Rossiya 24 was arguing ever more forcefully that Ukrainian forces had shot down the plane and insinuated that the United States was manipulating the air disaster to take Russia's place as Europe's main energy provider.
Russian liberal voices and opposition figures looked on in dismay, including anti-corruption campaigner Alexei Navalny, who Tweeted about Rossiya 24's corpse-flight story: "Why do they think this up and does anyone really believe it?" "One air catastrophe that set a 13-year record for the number of people killed was enough," Igor Belkin, a former editor at the major news site Lenta.ru, which was taken over by a pro-Kremlin editor earlier this year, wrote on Facebook. "But the info-*** around it makes everything worse."
Sources cited:
http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=80485
http://lifenews.ru/
https://mobile.twitter.com/rykov
http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=1809353
https://m.vk.com/strelkov_info
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/18/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/index.html
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Valefor.Tsurara
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By Valefor.Tsurara 2014-07-19 10:23:56
Jesus this is turning into one big mess...
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Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-07-19 11:33:42
What the... ummm... freedom fighters are today's terrorists, you are aware of this, right? This I can agree with.
there's a difference between blowing up a military supply depot, & blowing up a marketplace full of civilians.
there is a difference in the terms you are describing. There is NO difference in those terms.
I lost a good friend to Ronald Regan's "freedom fighters" yes, he was a civilian.
.....
This level of stupidity can't even be thought about.
To refute your statement, there is most certainly a difference between counter-military and counter-population strategies. Targeting your enemies military and industrial systems with the goal of removing their ability to wage war is far different from targeting your enemies community centers in an attempt to wage psychological war on them. It's on par with telling your soldiers to rape the women and children of the people your fighting. It's one thing for non-combatants. to be collateral damage of war, it's quite another for them to be the primary targets.
If you can't comprehend the difference between these tactics then there is no purpose in anyone further communicating with you as you've gone so far over the fence that your no longer operating as a rational human being.
Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2014-07-19 11:37:06
Unless of course they're approaching from a Total War perspective and view civilian populations of the enemy to be the enemy. By disrupting commerce you are disrupting the financial support and capabilities of your opponents military.
Ragnarok.Corres
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By Ragnarok.Corres 2014-07-19 13:57:00
here is an interesting tweet from June 17th 2014 translated:
"Soon above Ukraine (using Ruin as a derogatory name for Ukraine) an airliner stuffed full of euro-tourists will be shot down. This will be the reason for official NATO invitation. That’s the way I see it"
Interestingly, all the previous flights between Amsterdam and Kuala Lumpur in the past week took a different route. Flight MH17 was the only one to fly over the Ukraine/Russia border. All the other flights went through the Sea
i have 2 Questions for that whole incident:
1. Why was flight MH17 flying through a war zone where 10 aircraft have been shot down?
2. why did 2 ukrainian fighter jets follow the malaysian airliner? minutes before the crash. Even more so why did the air traffic controll instruct MH17 to fly lower?
here we go with conspiracies
not to draw final ideas but:
Joep Lange was on board as well as 100 of the world's top AIDS researchers. Those people worked for preventing an infection of the Virus rather than "curing" it with expensive medication. Could be a total mishap though and for some unknown reasons this plane flew over a warzone just for the hell of it...
edit2: even more conspiracies:
edit: YouTube Video Placeholder
A top pro-Russia rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has given a bizarre version of events surrounding the Malaysian jetliner crash - suggesting many of the victims may have died days before the plane took off
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-07-19 14:13:15
Thats some nice spin, I'm sure they will just keep making ***up. Eyewitnesses saw two fighter jets trailing the airline orly? Thats some incredible eyesight, to see two fighters flying at 33,000 feet... how about, no.
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Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2014-07-19 14:30:11
This level of stupidity can't even be thought about.
To refute your statement, there is most certainly a difference between counter-military and counter-population strategies. .... There certainly is.
The problem is that Regan's "freedom fighters" in both Nicaragua and Afghanistan targeted civilian populations and and civilian leadership. We trained them to do that.
I was not arguing tactics, I was arguing semantics.
Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2014-07-19 15:57:21
Sheesh.
No mention of the illuminati new world order in love with the number 7 theory?
/disappointed
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2014-07-19 16:09:28
Maybe he's speaking in some kind of quantum causality Schrodinger's cat style perspective. The moment they boarded the plane they were dead because the choice they made had only one logical conclusion, I mean really how many planes don't get shot down by high-altitude Surface-to-Air missiles?
Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-07-19 16:13:53
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-07-19 18:38:21
There was no plane. The Ukrainians, US and NATO planted wreckage, doctored videos and all these grieving families are actually deep cover CIA agents paid by the US as a pretext to invade Russia. If you look closely, Some of these 'family members' are the same PAID ACTORS that were apart of the TWA Flight 800 coverup. I have the pictures.
Wake up sheeple, this is WWIII excuse making. Remember the Gulf of Tonkin and the controlled demolition. Nanothermite. Pentagon missile. Grassy Knoll.
Ragnarok.Corres
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By Ragnarok.Corres 2014-07-20 09:21:51
I don’t mind a good conspiracy theory. The sad thing is that with all the crap we get fed by our media outlets, there is probably more accuracy in some theories than the official reporting we are given.
The downing of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur appears on the surface, at least by virtue of western reporting, to be a case of dumb arse pro-Russian separatist militia in the Ukraine using sophisticated military equipment in error on a civilian target.
It may turn out that this is exactly what happened. Without the benefit of all the facts, I am not personally able to say one way or the other. Neither are you, the reader. However, one thing we should all do is look at any significant events with possible political outcomes and be suspicious enough to not blindly jump on the media bandwagon.
I have intentionally left out sourcing in this article. Go ahead and google for yourself. I’m not prepared to apply any credibility to any source out there, merely bring together a couple of ideas, some established facts and some of my own observations. It is up to you to form your own opinion, do your own research and see what adds up for you. Ultimately, I have reservations that the results of any official investigation will actually resemble reality, so believe what you will.
Flight MH17 departed Amsterdam Airport Schiphol at 10:14UTC, 14 minutes behind schedule. It disappeared off radar at 13:15UTC. There were 298 people on board the aircraft, it was last detected flying at 33,000 feet, as ordered by Ukraine air traffic control. It had originally filed a plan to fly at 35,000 feet. The minimum advised height in Ukraine Airspace at the time was 32,000 feet.
Ukraine air traffic control have as yet not released radar data and there are suggestions from unidentified sources who apparently were in the Kiev control centre at the time that it is unlikely the data will ever be released. It has been alleged that until three minutes prior to the shoot down there were two Ukrainian Airforce jets flying in close formation with the airliner. These sources claim the aircraft was shot down by an air-to-air missile fired from one of these aircraft.
The US is claiming they have satellite imagery showing a ground based missile launch. Frankly, anyone who believes anything the Americans say without independent verification is a tool.
The Russians claim none of their launcher crews are in Ukraine. Well, they would say that, they aren’t supposed to have any of their personnel there period.
So far very little has surfaced showing the plane come down. The best footage to date is of a fireball at the point of impact. But this does tell us more than you may give credit at first consideration. For example we know there was no fire prior to impact on account of there being no smoke trail. This means the engines were not burning and that the fuel tanks were not ruptured. This helps us confirm that if a missile is the cause, it was a radar guided, not thermal guided device as it did not target the engines.
We also know the rear of the plane was separated most likely at the time of the explosion. It fell some distance from the main body of the wreckage, and bodies, luggage and other debris was scattered between the two main sections of the aircraft.
Bodies which came down with the tail appear to be riddled with injuries consistent with fast moving projectiles. It is important to note that missiles are designed for proximal detonation, not contact detonation. This is so the missile is more effective across a range of scenarios. Relying on contact reduces the likelihood of taking down an aircraft fired from in front of it as the chance of striking the plane is very low, especially against supersonic targets. Instead the missile detonates when within a lethal range, launching a cone of projectiles with a destructive shock wave. Excellent video can be located demonstrating how this works. Needless to say, given the plane does not appear to have been on fire before the ground strike, it seems likely detonation occurred near the rear of the plane. At 63m in length, it is highly probably that any detonation capable of taking a section of the plane off would have been close enough to disable everyone on board with the concussion. It is noteworthy that no distressed call was made, and only the black box recording will tell us if the flight crew made any attempt to control the aircraft after it was hit.
Interestingly, a BUK missile, the type alleged by Ukraine as having brought down MH17, relies on the command post to direct it to target. I am not an expert on how the missile is designed to close on its target, but given it is intended for use against everything from fighter jets to cruise missiles and smart bombs, I would have guessed the missile would be far more accurate than to hit the tail of a large commercial aircraft flying at subsonic speed. Firing from in front of the aircraft, as alleged by Ukraine, and striking the aircraft many kilometres in front of the launcher, I can’t help but wonder why the rear of the plane was hit. It makes me consider the possibility that the allegations of an air-to-air shoot down, with the missile arriving from the rear, has at least a little plausibility. Likewise would a BUK launch from behind the aircraft, coming from inside Ukraine government controlled territory.
Anyone capable of operating one of these systems would be able to use the basic telemetry provided by the computers to identify the target. The system is designed to look for characteristic patterns in the radar signal to determine the shape and probable type of aircraft. Further, the system is scanning for identifying squawking from the target. In this case MH17 would have been identifying itself as a commercial aircraft. The flight would have appeared on the operator’s screen as such.
So what motivation would Ukraine have had for shooting down a commercial aircraft?
Up to this point Ukraine has had very limited support from the West in fighting separatists. They have lost Crimea and currently do not have control of much of the East of the country. Rhetoric is not going to defeat the separatists, sanctions on the Russian leadership are not going to defeat the separatists. Ukraine needs the west to step up and fight its war for it.
I’m not going to ask you to believe that the downing of MH17 is a conspiracy to bring the West into direct conflict with Russia, whether that conflict be military or political. What I ask you to consider, before adding your voice to the choir of condemnation against Russia for its support of the rebels, is that maybe there is more to this than what initially meets the eye. We have seen on numerous occasions that the governments of the West have fooled their populations. Perhaps that isn’t the case here, but perhaps it is.
Think before you let yourself be caught up in the hysteria.
VIP
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-07-20 10:02:20
I don’t mind a good conspiracy theory. The sad thing is that with all the crap we get fed by our media outlets, there is probably more accuracy in some theories than the official reporting we are given.
The downing of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur appears on the surface, at least by virtue of western reporting, to be a case of dumb arse pro-Russian separatist militia in the Ukraine using sophisticated military equipment in error on a civilian target.
It may turn out that this is exactly what happened. Without the benefit of all the facts, I am not personally able to say one way or the other. Neither are you, the reader. However, one thing we should all do is look at any significant events with possible political outcomes and be suspicious enough to not blindly jump on the media bandwagon.
I have intentionally left out sourcing in this article. Go ahead and google for yourself. I’m not prepared to apply any credibility to any source out there, merely bring together a couple of ideas, some established facts and some of my own observations. It is up to you to form your own opinion, do your own research and see what adds up for you. Ultimately, I have reservations that the results of any official investigation will actually resemble reality, so believe what you will.
Flight MH17 departed Amsterdam Airport Schiphol at 10:14UTC, 14 minutes behind schedule. It disappeared off radar at 13:15UTC. There were 298 people on board the aircraft, it was last detected flying at 33,000 feet, as ordered by Ukraine air traffic control. It had originally filed a plan to fly at 35,000 feet. The minimum advised height in Ukraine Airspace at the time was 32,000 feet.
Ukraine air traffic control have as yet not released radar data and there are suggestions from unidentified sources who apparently were in the Kiev control centre at the time that it is unlikely the data will ever be released. It has been alleged that until three minutes prior to the shoot down there were two Ukrainian Airforce jets flying in close formation with the airliner. These sources claim the aircraft was shot down by an air-to-air missile fired from one of these aircraft.
The US is claiming they have satellite imagery showing a ground based missile launch. Frankly, anyone who believes anything the Americans say without independent verification is a tool.
The Russians claim none of their launcher crews are in Ukraine. Well, they would say that, they aren’t supposed to have any of their personnel there period.
So far very little has surfaced showing the plane come down. The best footage to date is of a fireball at the point of impact. But this does tell us more than you may give credit at first consideration. For example we know there was no fire prior to impact on account of there being no smoke trail. This means the engines were not burning and that the fuel tanks were not ruptured. This helps us confirm that if a missile is the cause, it was a radar guided, not thermal guided device as it did not target the engines.
We also know the rear of the plane was separated most likely at the time of the explosion. It fell some distance from the main body of the wreckage, and bodies, luggage and other debris was scattered between the two main sections of the aircraft.
Bodies which came down with the tail appear to be riddled with injuries consistent with fast moving projectiles. It is important to note that missiles are designed for proximal detonation, not contact detonation. This is so the missile is more effective across a range of scenarios. Relying on contact reduces the likelihood of taking down an aircraft fired from in front of it as the chance of striking the plane is very low, especially against supersonic targets. Instead the missile detonates when within a lethal range, launching a cone of projectiles with a destructive shock wave. Excellent video can be located demonstrating how this works. Needless to say, given the plane does not appear to have been on fire before the ground strike, it seems likely detonation occurred near the rear of the plane. At 63m in length, it is highly probably that any detonation capable of taking a section of the plane off would have been close enough to disable everyone on board with the concussion. It is noteworthy that no distressed call was made, and only the black box recording will tell us if the flight crew made any attempt to control the aircraft after it was hit.
Interestingly, a BUK missile, the type alleged by Ukraine as having brought down MH17, relies on the command post to direct it to target. I am not an expert on how the missile is designed to close on its target, but given it is intended for use against everything from fighter jets to cruise missiles and smart bombs, I would have guessed the missile would be far more accurate than to hit the tail of a large commercial aircraft flying at subsonic speed. Firing from in front of the aircraft, as alleged by Ukraine, and striking the aircraft many kilometres in front of the launcher, I can’t help but wonder why the rear of the plane was hit. It makes me consider the possibility that the allegations of an air-to-air shoot down, with the missile arriving from the rear, has at least a little plausibility. Likewise would a BUK launch from behind the aircraft, coming from inside Ukraine government controlled territory.
Anyone capable of operating one of these systems would be able to use the basic telemetry provided by the computers to identify the target. The system is designed to look for characteristic patterns in the radar signal to determine the shape and probable type of aircraft. Further, the system is scanning for identifying squawking from the target. In this case MH17 would have been identifying itself as a commercial aircraft. The flight would have appeared on the operator’s screen as such.
So what motivation would Ukraine have had for shooting down a commercial aircraft?
Up to this point Ukraine has had very limited support from the West in fighting separatists. They have lost Crimea and currently do not have control of much of the East of the country. Rhetoric is not going to defeat the separatists, sanctions on the Russian leadership are not going to defeat the separatists. Ukraine needs the west to step up and fight its war for it.
I’m not going to ask you to believe that the downing of MH17 is a conspiracy to bring the West into direct conflict with Russia, whether that conflict be military or political. What I ask you to consider, before adding your voice to the choir of condemnation against Russia for its support of the rebels, is that maybe there is more to this than what initially meets the eye. We have seen on numerous occasions that the governments of the West have fooled their populations. Perhaps that isn’t the case here, but perhaps it is.
Think before you let yourself be caught up in the hysteria.
Calling into question where the plane was hit as indication of what kind of targeting system it used or saying that a trained operator wouldn't have hit the tail is ludicrous. The operators are young men with minimal experience and the targeting can't be any more accurate than the steering on a Lada.
Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-07-20 10:12:08
More tinfoil hat nonsense.
As someone who is very familiar with military weapons platforms, including SAM and their accompanying radar systems, most of what you said is utter ***.
Quote: Anyone capable of operating one of these systems would be able to use the basic telemetry provided by the computers to identify the target. The system is designed to look for characteristic patterns in the radar signal to determine the shape and probable type of aircraft. Further, the system is scanning for identifying squawking from the target. In this case MH17 would have been identifying itself as a commercial aircraft. The flight would have appeared on the operator’s screen as such.
This is horsesh1t. Not only is that NOT how IFF works, it's not even how missile systems work. Each radar system utilizes a different band of EM for it's scanning and target acquisition. Different materials and design's reflect different EM spectrum in different ways. That's a long way to say that aircraft appear differently on different radar systems. There is no picture with a little green / red outline on it, it's just a set of signal patterns. You wouldn't even know what you were looking at unless you had specialized training that is specific to each radar platform. Further because different aircraft appear differently on each radar platform, someone trained or familiar with one platform would falsely identify signals when operating on a different platform if they were not retrained. There is no automated target analysis and identification no matter what the movies tell you. Instead signals are sent to Intel analysts who develop targeting profiles and then feed them to sites as part of a dataset. Onsite signal's analysts will then compare profiles against their dataset and mark targets accordingly. The missile is then programmed with the targets profile and launched, this is to prevent the missile from hitting something you didn't point it at. This is actually what stealth is all about, confusing enemy radar systems such that they can't identify the target until the target's well within standoff range. People like to talk about small radar cross sections but that doesn't mean sh!t when your moving faster then any natural object could possible move and thus easily discerned as "not a seagull or laden swallow".
Now for your Friend or Foe spiel. IFF is not some universal language or marker between aircraft, it would be useless if it was because enemy aircraft would just squawk "friend" all the time. Instead military systems automatically assumes everything is enemy (ENM/UNK/SUS) unless the aircraft is squawking a code that is itself encrypted by a very controlled key that has a cryptoperiod of about six to twelve hours. And while mode 3 codes are used for civilian airports, they mean absolutely nothing to a military weapons platform.
Anyhow, this is clearly a case of personal operating an advanced weapons system they aren't sufficiently trained on. This wasn't Russian either as they have enough training to not do something like this. This event benefits neither nation politically, though opportunistic individuals will find a silver lining somewhere.
By fonewear 2014-07-20 18:15:42
Jesus this is turning into one big conspiracy theory...
By fonewear 2014-07-20 18:17:24
I'm not saying conspiracy theory...but conspiracy theory.
I blame crab people.
YouTube Video Placeholder
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By Grumpy Cat 2014-07-20 18:50:15
Was it only one missle? I would imagine if it were really a SAM they would have fired twice for the extra skillchain damage.
Fenrir.Atheryn
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By Fenrir.Atheryn 2014-07-21 08:13:41
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »There was no plane. The Ukrainians, US and NATO planted wreckage, doctored videos and all these grieving families are actually deep cover CIA agents paid by the US as a pretext to invade Russia. If you look closely, Some of these 'family members' are the same PAID ACTORS that were apart of the TWA Flight 800 coverup. I have the pictures.
Wake up sheeple, this is WWIII excuse making. Remember the Gulf of Tonkin and the controlled demolition. Nanothermite. Pentagon missile. Grassy Knoll.
The wreckage was really that of missing flight MH370. The bodies found at the site were taken from local morgues and nearby cemetaries. The real flight MH17, and real passengers, were intercepted and transported safely 1000 years into the future.
Because Millennium.
By fonewear 2014-07-21 10:16:14
My summer vacation to the Ukraine has been postponed till further evaluation.
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Fenrir.Atheryn
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By Fenrir.Atheryn 2014-07-21 10:32:58
But now is probably the best time to fly there.
Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2014-07-21 10:34:06
OK, this is sounding a LOT like evidence.
Recordings genuine, says US embassy [ with transcripts ] - The Sun Daily
And from that alternate universe that is the Russian news....
MH17: Ukraine fighter jet near plane before crash - Same source
I have no idea what this source is but it seems to be from Kuala Lumpur (their spelling, not mine) and reminds me somehow of the New York Daily News, one of the last sources of yellow journalism still around.
By fonewear 2014-07-21 10:35:27
Obama was going to draw a red line but he can't find his magic marker.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-07-21 10:57:02
Obama was going to draw a red line but he can't find his magic marker crayon. ftfy for accuracy
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By Anna Ruthven 2014-07-21 13:46:12
Whooo! Whooo!!! Who do you think you are, Biden? You're not God! You don't know who has a soul and who doesn't!
PUTIN DOES HAVE A SOUL!!
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By Asura.Triffle 2014-07-21 14:25:22
Whooo! Whooo!!! Who do you think you are, Biden? You're not God! You don't know who has a soul and who doesn't!
PUTIN DOES HAVE A SOUL!!
What is a soul?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-07-21 14:26:55
That is the greatest, most unanswered question in all of human history.
inb4 our "scientists" tell us all about the soul, even though they don't know
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By Asura.Melbufrauma 2014-07-21 14:27:17
Isn't that the capitol of South Korea?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-07-21 14:28:12
Asura.Melbufrauma said: »
Isn't that the capitol of South Korea? That's Seoul
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 188
By Asura.Melbufrauma 2014-07-21 14:29:39
Asura.Melbufrauma said: »
Isn't that the capitol of South Korea? That's Seoul
[+]
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-07-21 14:31:07
It's that thing when you're like owww my feels! And it hurts there, that's the soul! And also to make your life and luck better you have to purge it once in a while with a gigantic enema.
But I might be confusing things, I'm not sure.
Malaysian plane reportedly shot down in Ukraine near Russian border
Quote: A Malaysia Airlines passenger plane carrying 295 people was shot down over eastern Ukraine on Thursday, Ukrainian officials said, as both the government and the pro-Russia rebels fighting in the region denied any responsibility for downing the aircraft.
The flight was carrying 280 passengers and 15 crew, the airline confirmed. Dozens of bodies were scattered around the smoldering wreckage in the village of Hrabove, located about 25 miles from the Russian border.
Al Jazeera’s Scott Heidler reported that the area is controlled by rebel fighters and has seen heavy fighting recently.
"We’re talking a large area of what looks like at least two fields. There is a farm road right in between them, the big wreck, as I was talking about, on one side, farmers on the other,” Heidler said.
Anton Gerashenko, an adviser to Ukraine's interior minister, said on his Facebook page that the plane was flying at an altitude of 33,000 feet when it was hit by a missile fired from a Buk surface-to-air missile system, which Russia began producing in the mid-1990s.
A senior U.S. official confirmed that the flight was shot down by a surface-to-air missile.
The self-appointed prime minister of the Donetsk region in eastern Ukraine, Alexander Borodai, told Al Jazeera that he was headed to the location of the downed plane and that a Donetsk People's Republic investigation team was now in the area. He blamed the downing of the plane on Ukraine's government forces.
"Apparently, it's a passenger airliner indeed, truly shot down by the Ukrainian air force," Borodai told Russia's state-run Rossiya 24 TV broadcaster.
Russian news agency RIA-Novosti quoted Borodai as saying rebels intend to call a three-day cease-fire to allow an investigation of the crash.
Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, meanwhile, called the downing an act of terrorism and called for an international investigation into the crash. He insisted that his forces did not shoot down the plane. Poroshenko said his country's armed forces didn't shoot at any airborne targets.
"We do not exclude that this plane was shot down, and we stress that the Armed Forces of Ukraine did not take action against any airborne targets," he said. "We are sure that those who are guilty in this tragedy will be held responsible."
The death toll includes 23 U.S. citizens, according to a Ukrainian Interior Ministry adviser quoted by Interfax news agency.
President Barack Obama, speaking in Delaware on Thursday afternoon, said the U.S. would "offer any assistance to help determine what happened and why."
Malaysia Airlines confirmed on its Twitter feed earlier Thursday that it had lost contact with Flight MH17, which was traveling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, adding that "the last known position was over Ukrainian airspace."
Malaysia Airlines also said that it received notification from Ukrainian air traffic control that it lost contact with the plane, a Boeing 777, about 31 miles from the Russia-Ukraine border.
Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak said on his Twitter page that he was "shocked" by the reports of the crash and that the government was "launching an immediate investigation."
Meanwhile, Britain has asked for an urgent meeting of the United Nations Security Council to discuss the crisis in Ukraine, diplomats said Thursday.
The flight, according to the aviation tracking website Flightstats.com, was scheduled to arrive in Kuala Lumpur at 6:10 a.m. local time. Major airlines have diverted their flight paths and said they would avoid flying over Ukrainian airspace.
Meanwhile, the Kremlin said that Russian President Vladimir Putin and Obama discussed the plane crash in Ukraine during a phone call.
The development comes a day after the Ukrainian military said a Russian jet shot down a Ukrainian air force plane that was on military operations over eastern Ukraine, where government forces are fighting to quell a pro-Russian rebellion.
The incident also comes after a Malaysia Airlines plane went missing on March 8 on a flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing with 239 passengers and crew on board. It has not been found.
Philip J. Victor contributed to this report, with Al Jazeera and wire services.
Looks like Pro-Russian separatists done goofed here and Malaysia Airlines might want to consider rebranding if they don't outright go bankrupt.
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