Siren.Mosin said: »
I get all my news from an 13 year old videogame's website.
Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 Shot Down By SAM
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Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 shot down by SAM
ftfy. Gotta read the TOS. Siren.Mosin said: » I get all my news from an 11 year old videogame's website.
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: » What the... ummm... freedom fighters are today's terrorists, you are aware of this, right? 1. as Mosin said, there is a clear distinction between a freedom fighter opposing oppression and a terrorist shooting down unidentified aircraft and shooting civilians. 2. as I said, naming rights belong to the winners. If the terrorists succeed in overturning a government and asserting their power, generally they can regard themselves as liberators. Conversely, if the government puts down a rebellion, they can regard them as terrorists or radicals. The methodology of the Ukrainian separatists is often terroristic.
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: » I think the point is that if you know that there's danger ahead you probably shouldn't walk right into it lol... Your outright dismissal of any negligence on the part of the people responsible for the safety of these flight passengers is pretty concerning too... Imma let you finish but what part of established air traffic corridor isn't coming in loud and clear? It's not like either side established a no-fly zone and Malaysia Airlines was like herpaderp nope, lets fly here anyway. Some airlines opted out flying there but its not like an egregious act of greed is responsible here. Militia dudes have been posting their glorious victories on social media but the minute they realized they dun goofed and shot down civilians they yanked that ***down and went into spin mode. Ceasefire, investigation, cooperation, we're not the bad guys here etc etc etc. Either someone intentionally decided to fire a rocket at a civilian aircraft (unlikely) or more likely someone *** up and mistook the plane for military aircraft.
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » Lakshmi.Flavin said: » I think the point is that if you know that there's danger ahead you probably shouldn't walk right into it lol... Your outright dismissal of any negligence on the part of the people responsible for the safety of these flight passengers is pretty concerning too... Imma let you finish but what part of established air traffic corridor isn't coming in loud and clear? It's not like either side established a no-fly zone and Malaysia Airlines was like herpaderp nope, lets fly here anyway. Some airlines opted out flying there but its not like an egregious act of greed is responsible here. Militia dudes have been posting their glorious victories on social media but the minute they realized they dun goofed and shot down civilians they yanked that ***down and went into spin mode. Ceasefire, investigation, cooperation, we're not the bad guys here etc etc etc. Either someone intentionally decided to fire a rocket at a civilian aircraft (unlikely) or more likely someone *** up and mistook the plane for military aircraft.
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » Bahamut.Kara said: » Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » I guess captains are loathe to mention such things. *intercom sound* "This is your captain speaking, we'll soon be flying over Baghdad. If you squint you eyes you'll see the black hole of US military spending, the glint of a detonating suicide vest or the blasted ruins of ancient civilizations. Please keep those tray tables in the upright position though." It also lists cruising speed, altitude, and expected time of arrival, updated in real time. Silly Kara, expecting people to know basic geography. I would never tell anyone to not educate themselves on stuff like this but I mean really... how could you put this at the feet of the passangers? The rebels are not allowing full access to the site.
Quote: An OSCE source has said the team did not get full access to the plane crash site. The source said shots were fired in the vicinity but not at the monitors themselves.
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: » Bismarck.Ramyrez said: » Leviathan.Chaosx said: » Mine field up ahead, do not walk across. Then you decided, meh, let's walk across it anyways. Too bad just based on what's been cited in this thread it's not that clear cut. Maybe it should have been. But it wasn't. And your apologist mindset for terrorists is somewhat disconcerting. Your outright dismissal of any negligence on the part of the people responsible for the safety of these flight passengers is pretty concerning too... ***'s sake I hate getting into these "you didn't read the things I've written" discussions, but c'mon. I've already said that despite the fact they were cleared to fly there it was still probably poor judgment to do so given the state of affairs in the Ukraine. It doesn't change the fact that it was only a bad place to fly because of people irresponsibly firing "appropriated" missles with improper training. R.I.P. Karlijn Keijzer
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: » Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » Bahamut.Kara said: » Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » I guess captains are loathe to mention such things. *intercom sound* "This is your captain speaking, we'll soon be flying over Baghdad. If you squint you eyes you'll see the black hole of US military spending, the glint of a detonating suicide vest or the blasted ruins of ancient civilizations. Please keep those tray tables in the upright position though." It also lists cruising speed, altitude, and expected time of arrival, updated in real time. Silly Kara, expecting people to know basic geography. I would never tell anyone to not educate themselves on stuff like this but I mean really... how could you put this at the feet of the passangers? You know I'm talking about the reality that many people don't know planes fly over conflict areas right? Hence the kneejerk "Why are we flying planes over Ukraine?? ISNT IT COMMON SENSE?!"
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Garuda.Chanti said: » Leviathan.Chaosx said: » Fenrir.Atheryn said: » Cerberus.Cahlum said: » To be fair why the hell would you be flying over eastern Ukraine. A Fighter Jet was shot down earlier the same day, seriously who runs these airlines. It's cheaper in terms of fuel expenses to risk flying over a warzone than to navigate around it. Until of course something like this happens, and people stop flying. They flew over a war zone where it was known that planes have been shot down recently, to save a few bucks in fuel costs. Once again money trumps any sense of morality or even basic intelligence. For that matter in today's airliners the autopilot does the flying, the pilots are decoration and autopilot programers. Neither the pilots nor the company made any decisions. If you do not understand the term flight path TRY to understand the word assigned. For reference I still hold a pilot's license that I earned back in the '70s. Commercial S/MEL SES. Is there ANYONE else here who has ever been PIC? Been an air traffic controller? At least taken a demonstration flight in a light plane? Sometimes the lack of knowledge here infuriates me. Chanti, your starting to sound like nausi here defending companies .... very un-Chanti like; It should be in the airlines best interest contact the FAA to move flight paths to accommodate for the disturbances in war zones. Hell the FAA should already be involved in that. If you cannot move the flight path, then at least reroute passengers to a different airport to get them to the destination. I believe that is what people are ultimately referring to here. The thing that infuriates me, is people that are so hell bent on proving people wrong than actually educating them without being a smart ***. Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » Lakshmi.Flavin said: » I think the point is that if you know that there's danger ahead you probably shouldn't walk right into it lol... Your outright dismissal of any negligence on the part of the people responsible for the safety of these flight passengers is pretty concerning too... Imma let you finish but what part of established air traffic corridor isn't coming in loud and clear?It's not like either side established a no-fly zone and Malaysia Airlines was like herpaderp nope, lets fly here anyway. Some airlines opted out flying there but its not like an egregious act of greed is responsible here. Militia dudes have been posting their glorious victories on social media but the minute they realized they dun goofed and shot down civilians they yanked that ***down and went into spin mode. Ceasefire, investigation, cooperation, we're not the bad guys here etc etc etc. Either someone intentionally decided to fire a rocket at a civilian aircraft (unlikely) or more likely someone *** up and mistook the plane for military aircraft. Quote: Some airlines opted out flying there It doesn't have to be shut down to know that its not a good idea.. It probably is likely that it was an accident but they could have flown around it pretty easily which everyone will be doing now lol.. Fumiku said: » he thing that infuriates me, is people that are so hell bent on proving people wrong than actually educating them without being a smart ***. well then, take it upon yourself to be the change you'd like to see in the forum.
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Fumiku said: » It should be in the airlines best interest contact the FAA to move flight paths to accommodate for the disturbances in war zones. Hell the FAA should already be involved in that. Erm. FAA? Not in US airspace
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: » Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » Lakshmi.Flavin said: » I think the point is that if you know that there's danger ahead you probably shouldn't walk right into it lol... Your outright dismissal of any negligence on the part of the people responsible for the safety of these flight passengers is pretty concerning too... Imma let you finish but what part of established air traffic corridor isn't coming in loud and clear?It's not like either side established a no-fly zone and Malaysia Airlines was like herpaderp nope, lets fly here anyway. Some airlines opted out flying there but its not like an egregious act of greed is responsible here. Militia dudes have been posting their glorious victories on social media but the minute they realized they dun goofed and shot down civilians they yanked that ***down and went into spin mode. Ceasefire, investigation, cooperation, we're not the bad guys here etc etc etc. Either someone intentionally decided to fire a rocket at a civilian aircraft (unlikely) or more likely someone *** up and mistook the plane for military aircraft. Quote: Some airlines opted out flying there It doesn't have to be shut down to know that its not a good idea.. It probably is likely that it was an accident but they could have flown around it pretty easily which everyone will be doing now lol.. You may be the most egregious "lol" user to ever grace this forum. That aside, there's no "accident" here. They hit the jet they intended to hit with a surface-to-air missle. It wasn't like the Malaysian flight incidentally collided with a missle out for a Sunday drive because the missle accidentally ran a stop sign.
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: » The part where you said Quote: Some airlines opted out flying there It doesn't have to be shut down to know that its not a good idea.. It probably is likely that it was an accident but they could have flown around it pretty easily which everyone will be doing now lol.. Because it's uncommon for militants to have the technology to hit aircraft flying at such high altitudes (30k+ feet) and because this area in particular wasn't part of the potential danger zone laid out by people with expertise on such matters? Some airliners just opted for an abundance of caution. The FAA marked out some areas around Crimea that they didn't want US carriers flying but this plane wasn't in those areas and the Asian airliners pretty much all still used this path. Eurocontrol approved this planes flight path and a number of European carriers frequently use this route to get to Southeast Asia. In summary, this is busy *** space and everyone knows it. Well, everyone except our militias on the ground firing at things they couldn't be bothered to confirm was a Ukrainian transport aircraft. Blame lies solely with them for shooting down the wrong plane and their actions immediately after the crash shows they know it.
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Bismarck.Ramyrez said: » Lakshmi.Flavin said: » Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » Lakshmi.Flavin said: » I think the point is that if you know that there's danger ahead you probably shouldn't walk right into it lol... Your outright dismissal of any negligence on the part of the people responsible for the safety of these flight passengers is pretty concerning too... Imma let you finish but what part of established air traffic corridor isn't coming in loud and clear?It's not like either side established a no-fly zone and Malaysia Airlines was like herpaderp nope, lets fly here anyway. Some airlines opted out flying there but its not like an egregious act of greed is responsible here. Militia dudes have been posting their glorious victories on social media but the minute they realized they dun goofed and shot down civilians they yanked that ***down and went into spin mode. Ceasefire, investigation, cooperation, we're not the bad guys here etc etc etc. Either someone intentionally decided to fire a rocket at a civilian aircraft (unlikely) or more likely someone *** up and mistook the plane for military aircraft. Quote: Some airlines opted out flying there It doesn't have to be shut down to know that its not a good idea.. It probably is likely that it was an accident but they could have flown around it pretty easily which everyone will be doing now lol.. You may be the most egregious "lol" user to ever grace this forum. That aside, there's no "accident" here. They hit the jet they intended to hit with a surface-to-air missle. It wasn't like the Malaysian flight incidentally collided with a missle out for a Sunday drive because the missle accidentally ran a stop sign. Accident as in addressing Sparths comment about them not intending to take down a commercial jetliner not that they didn't take down the plane they were aiming at... You know like when he said this: Quote: Either someone intentionally decided to fire a rocket at a civilian aircraft (unlikely) or more likely someone *** up and mistook the plane for military aircraft. Leviathan.Chaosx said: » What the... ummm... freedom fighters are today's terrorists, you are aware of this, right? Siren.Mosin said: » there's a difference between blowing up a military supply depot, & blowing up a marketplace full of civilians. there is a difference in the terms you are describing. I lost a good friend to Ronald Regan's "freedom fighters" yes, he was a civilian. Quote: One of the most visible leaders of the Donetsk People's Republic, Denis Pushilin, has resigned his post during a visit to Moscow, Shaun Walker (@shaunwalker7) reports, citing Russian agencies. No reason for the decision was given According to Interfax, Pushilin is in Moscow and sent a letter of resignation from his position as speaker of the DPR's parliamentary body. Quote: • Rebels controlling the crash site turned away an OSCE team with a gun shot, despite previously claiming they would grant access to international investigators. Confusion surrounds the fate of the flight recorders, and Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said he would negotiate with separatists for a "humanitarian corridor" to the site. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/malaysia-airlines-crash-flight-recorder-found-as-anger-at-russia-mounts-live-updates
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Fenrir.Atheryn said: » Shiva.Nikolce said: » Fenrir.Atheryn said: » Usually whey I fly, my time is spent: You absolutely must bring your own drinks and snacks on the plane. I hit the news stand just past security and load up. I have so many snacks in my laptop case pocket it looks like I'm four years old! Plus bring a good movie and noise canceling headphones. It's the only way to survive without killing the other passengers. I generally do that, but on a long haul flight there's only so much you can pack. If it's going to be that long I recommend prescription pills. You may be surprised what your doctor will give you if you ask him.... and you might not be surprised... you might be all...no wonder we have such a bad prescription drug problem... I didn't even finish asking him and he handed me a scrip[.../i] Shiva.Nikolce said: » Fenrir.Atheryn said: » Shiva.Nikolce said: » Fenrir.Atheryn said: » Usually whey I fly, my time is spent: You absolutely must bring your own drinks and snacks on the plane. I hit the news stand just past security and load up. I have so many snacks in my laptop case pocket it looks like I'm four years old! Plus bring a good movie and noise canceling headphones. It's the only way to survive without killing the other passengers. I generally do that, but on a long haul flight there's only so much you can pack. If it's going to be that long I recommend prescription pills. You may be surprised what your doctor will give you if you ask him.... and you might not be surprised... you might be all...no wonder we have such a bad prescription drug problem... I didn't even finish asking him and he handed me a scrip[.../i] If you have a pain problem, just try to stop them from giving you hydrocodone or Vicodin! You can't!
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Bismarck.Ramyrez said: » If you have a pain problem, just try to stop them from giving you hydrocodone or Vicodin! You can't! lol and I would complain about it to someone...but there are just some times in life that those pills really come in handy... Shiva.Nikolce said: » Bismarck.Ramyrez said: » If you have a pain problem, just try to stop them from giving you hydrocodone or Vicodin! You can't! lol and I would complain about it to someone...but there are just some times in life that those pills really come in handy... I generally just decline them. Vicodin makes me sick as hell and despite being a different mechanism, generally is no more helpful for me than Ibuprofen. Bismarck.Ramyrez said: » Shiva.Nikolce said: » Bismarck.Ramyrez said: » If you have a pain problem, just try to stop them from giving you hydrocodone or Vicodin! You can't! lol and I would complain about it to someone...but there are just some times in life that those pills really come in handy... I generally just decline them. Vicodin makes me sick as hell and despite being a different mechanism, generally is no more helpful for me than Ibuprofen. from one old man to a soon to be old man I highly recommend finding a pill that works before you try to pass a kidney stone without one. <insert "that's a tip from your old uncle lar" video clip> YouTube Video Placeholder Fumiku said: » It should be in the airlines best interest contact the FAA to move flight paths to accommodate for the disturbances in war zones. Hell the FAA should already be involved in that. I think you mean the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO). FAA is domestic US only.
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Shiva.Nikolce said: » from one old man to a soon to be old man I highly recommend finding a pill that works before you try to pass a kidney stone without one. I've already done so without one. *flex*
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Fenrir.Atheryn said: » Fumiku said: » It should be in the airlines best interest contact the FAA to move flight paths to accommodate for the disturbances in war zones. Hell the FAA should already be involved in that. I think you mean the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO). FAA is domestic US only. Yeah, I figured there was an international org. that took care of that, I was going to be late for work if I took the time to look it up. Thank you! Bloody separatists...just send these guys in.
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Rebels have been removing bodies and plane parts all day and are refusing to tell anyone where they are being transported.
The OSCE are still being denied full access to the site, but so far no shots have been fired near them today. The rebels now claim that no black boxes have been found at all, disavowing previous statements they have made. Reporters have been told at gunpoint to not take anymore pictures. Some are still doing so, covertly. Gunshots have been fired to try and intimidate them. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/19/mh17-ukraine-accuses-rebels-of-destroying-evidence-live-updates http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/separatist-links-malaysia-airlines-mh17-removed http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28383625
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