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[Dev] Voidwatch: Response to Feedback
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 36553
By Asura.Ludoggy 2012-01-10 18:59:23
Its below 40° outside.
The avatar still fits >:
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2012
By Phoenix.Dabackpack 2012-01-10 19:03:55
There's something about 'you certainly won't get nice items every run' that is kind of a bummer though.
I agree with a token system that guarantees a reward, but I also think it should be possible to get nice drops every run in addition.
For example, Einherjar had Therion Ichor which you got when you won, but you also had chances to obtain abjurations on a run-to-run basis.
I feel that instead of making Voidwatch a 'grind' (which it already is, I guess) by making you earn tokens, you also keep the same system so there's a chance you could get nice things immediately.
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Server: Siren
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-10 19:04:45
I personally think VW should be a point system like einherjar though, I'd love to earn points to purchase a body piece even if it would take more fights on average to do that than random. Would give a goal to strive for and save points, and also you can get an item you actually want.
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Server: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Leoheart 2012-01-10 19:09:29
While I agree on the points system, there would need to be differentiation on how many points you'd obtain per tier.
Some Voidwatch fights are extremely easy x.x
Where as each einherjar chamber still had a slight degree of difficulty at level 75.
Server: Odin
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By Odin.Tsuneo 2012-01-10 19:10:10
None of the high end gear from Einherjar was ever obtainable via points, but I get what you're saying. Perhaps they should do it like Einherjar, and have separate gear that comes from points.
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Server: Siren
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-10 19:16:59
Could make the points cruor and just make players spend 4 or 6 mil cruor on rare items.
Bismarck.Anjisnu
Server: Bismarck
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Posts: 207
By Bismarck.Anjisnu 2012-01-10 19:17:25
meh level 100 woodworking now they just need to adjust ore drop rates for my smithing mule
Bismarck.Anjisnu
Server: Bismarck
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Posts: 207
By Bismarck.Anjisnu 2012-01-10 19:34:02
only thing id like them to change tbh would be the ability to set all blu procs in 1 spell set no waiting a minute for white
Leviathan.Phenomena
Server: Leviathan
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By Leviathan.Phenomena 2012-01-10 19:38:55
Could make the points cruor and just make players spend 4 or 6 mil cruor on rare items.
No. horrible idea
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Server: Siren
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-10 19:41:22
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »Could make the points cruor and just make players spend 4 or 6 mil cruor on rare items.
No. horrible idea Why "horrible"
I personally wouldn't want cruor, but why not? VW already uses it.
It really isn't any different than making a whole new point system, and setting it at 4-6 mil isn't any different than taking some of the atmacites to level 15.
I wouldn't say horrible.
Leviathan.Phenomena
Server: Leviathan
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By Leviathan.Phenomena 2012-01-10 19:43:04
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »Could make the points cruor and just make players spend 4 or 6 mil cruor on rare items.
No. horrible idea Why "horrible"
I personally wouldn't want cruor, but why not? VW already uses it.
It really isn't any different than making a whole new point system, and setting it at 4-6 mil isn't any different than taking some of the atmacites to level 15.
I wouldn't say horrible.
Because then ppl wouldnt need to do VW.. would just be more abyssea burning to get ur cruor. and plus 10k max cruor a fight. means 400 fights for 1 piece of armor...
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Lakshmi.Greggles
Server: Lakshmi
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By Lakshmi.Greggles 2012-01-10 19:43:05
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »Could make the points cruor and just make players spend 4 or 6 mil cruor on rare items.
No. horrible idea Why "horrible"
I personally wouldn't want cruor, but why not? VW already uses it.
It really isn't any different than making a whole new point system, and setting it at 4-6 mil isn't any different than taking some of the atmacites to level 15.
I wouldn't say horrible.
Problem is that it defeats the point of Voidwatch. Why kill any VW NMs when you can make 200k+/hr cruor in a cruor party in Abyssea?
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Server: Siren
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-10 19:44:28
I just said a number, can set it at 20 mil for all I care.
If there would be a point system they probably would use cruor anyways, since we couldn't be compensated for what we did already.
Server: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Leoheart 2012-01-10 19:44:38
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »Could make the points cruor and just make players spend 4 or 6 mil cruor on rare items.
No. horrible idea Why "horrible"
I personally wouldn't want cruor, but why not? VW already uses it.
It really isn't any different than making a whole new point system, and setting it at 4-6 mil isn't any different than taking some of the atmacites to level 15.
I wouldn't say horrible.
Problem is that it defeats the point of Voidwatch. Why kill any VW NMs when you can make 200k+/hr cruor in a cruor party in Abyssea?
Not really, it offers variety.
do I want to stay in abyssea for hours on end?
Or do I wanna do voidwatch for a couple of hours a day?
I know which I'd do.
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Server: Siren
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-10 19:44:58
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »Leviathan.Phenomena said: »Could make the points cruor and just make players spend 4 or 6 mil cruor on rare items.
No. horrible idea Why "horrible"
I personally wouldn't want cruor, but why not? VW already uses it.
It really isn't any different than making a whole new point system, and setting it at 4-6 mil isn't any different than taking some of the atmacites to level 15.
I wouldn't say horrible.
Because then ppl wouldnt need to do VW.. would just be more abyssea burning to get ur cruor. and plus 10k max cruor a fight. means 400 fights for 1 piece of armor... people already do 400 fights for one piece of armor...
Leviathan.Phenomena
Server: Leviathan
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Posts: 1922
By Leviathan.Phenomena 2012-01-10 19:47:57
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »Leviathan.Phenomena said: »Could make the points cruor and just make players spend 4 or 6 mil cruor on rare items.
No. horrible idea Why "horrible"
I personally wouldn't want cruor, but why not? VW already uses it.
It really isn't any different than making a whole new point system, and setting it at 4-6 mil isn't any different than taking some of the atmacites to level 15.
I wouldn't say horrible.
Because then ppl wouldnt need to do VW.. would just be more abyssea burning to get ur cruor. and plus 10k max cruor a fight. means 400 fights for 1 piece of armor... people already do 400 fights for one piece of armor...
ya because u cant get the armor from doing abyssea. but if they made it cruor why the fragglerock would you do VW for it if you could do it through abyssea. also with that said it would be way harder to find ppl to do VW since everybody will do abyssea to get their armor
Server: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Leoheart 2012-01-10 19:48:32
Because abyssea's *** boring.
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Server: Siren
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-10 19:49:39
yea... my idea was horrible lol
Okay then
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Leviathan.Phenomena
Server: Leviathan
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Posts: 1922
By Leviathan.Phenomena 2012-01-10 19:50:59
Because abyssea's *** boring.
Your right. abyssea is boring. and 250+ of the same fight isnt? and thats just for u. not if your in a ls that is trying to get it for multiple ppl.
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Server: Siren
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-10 19:52:06
just can't let yourself spam the same thing, gotta do a variety of things.
Server: Odin
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By Odin.Tsuneo 2012-01-10 20:01:43
Wouldn't change the fact that a cruor burn in Abyssea would probably net the fastest cruor. People like to do things optimally, so such a thing would result in people not doing Voidwatch at all. If Voidwatch was to have a point system, it'd have to be something else besides cruor.
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 107
By Shiva.Kolossuss 2012-01-10 20:01:49
The Voidwatch drop rarity system does leave a lot of people scratching their heads. I'll use my own experience as a prime example.
I had done only the two T1 Bastok VWNMs before leaving for an extended break. I come back, and ended up joining in on some Jeuno VW. We fought Pil, and I can't even remember if I had traded any Rubicund/Colbalt cells. But I do know that I ended up going 1/1 on Toci's Harness. Later that evening, I also went 1/1 on the Stoicheion Medal, which was still selling for 2,000,000g at the time. I know that I did trade cells that time.
It really does prove how the drops are 100% random. Someone goes 1/10 on Toci's Harness without cells. I go 1/1 on it. Other people are still 0/300+ or more on it. And the same can be said on other extremely rare drops.
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Server: Siren
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-10 20:05:03
The Voidwatch drop rarity system does leave a lot of people scratching their heads. I'll use my own experience as a prime example.
I had done only the two T1 Bastok VWNMs before leaving for an extended break. I come back, and ended up joining in on some Jeuno VW. We fought Pil, and I can't even remember if I had traded any Rubicund/Colbalt cells. But I do know that I ended up going 1/1 on Toci's Harness. Later that evening, I also went 1/1 on the Stoicheion Medal, which was still selling for 2,000,000g at the time. I know that I did trade cells that time.
It really does prove how the drops are 100% random. Someone goes 1/10 on Toci's Harness without cells. I go 1/1 on it. Other people are still 0/300+ or more on it. And the same can be said on other extremely rare drops. Or it proves that the more you do it the less likely you'll get anything rare.
.-.
Bismarck.Helel
Server: Bismarck
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Posts: 1335
By Bismarck.Helel 2012-01-10 21:01:55
The Voidwatch drop rarity system does leave a lot of people scratching their heads. I'll use my own experience as a prime example.
I had done only the two T1 Bastok VWNMs before leaving for an extended break. I come back, and ended up joining in on some Jeuno VW. We fought Pil, and I can't even remember if I had traded any Rubicund/Colbalt cells. But I do know that I ended up going 1/1 on Toci's Harness. Later that evening, I also went 1/1 on the Stoicheion Medal, which was still selling for 2,000,000g at the time. I know that I did trade cells that time.
It really does prove how the drops are 100% random. Someone goes 1/10 on Toci's Harness without cells. I go 1/1 on it. Other people are still 0/300+ or more on it. And the same can be said on other extremely rare drops.
Because the randomness of the VW loot system was under suspicion?
Quetzalcoatl.Zagam
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By Quetzalcoatl.Zagam 2012-01-10 21:21:26
anyone claiming there 0/300+ is full of BS just making there opinion look more valid.
and if by chance a "few" people are, its doing exactly what the MMO is designed for, keep playing and keep paying.
Leviathan.Hohenheim
Server: Leviathan
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Posts: 3351
By Leviathan.Hohenheim 2012-01-10 21:24:08
Quetzalcoatl.Zagam said: »anyone claiming there 0/300+ is full of BS just making there opinion look more valid.
and if by chance a "few" people are, its doing exactly what the MMO is designed for, keep playing and keep paying.
Not sure if serious .-.
By Brolli 2012-01-10 21:25:23
sorry but i don't buy the 0/300 - 0/200 BS on Pil as well, it will require huge gils for that and cruors, even if is true, half of those runs was prolly done with no cells. JUST SAYING, because the T5 was implemented a few days ago
Bismarck.Rinomaru
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By Bismarck.Rinomaru 2012-01-10 21:35:57
We need to assassinate Tanaka or w/e
Bahamut.Serj
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By Bahamut.Serj 2012-01-10 22:01:21
Quetzalcoatl.Zagam said: »anyone claiming there 0/300+ is full of BS just making there opinion look more valid.
and if by chance a "few" people are, its doing exactly what the MMO is designed for, keep playing and keep paying. sorry but i don't buy the 0/300 - 0/200 BS on Pil as well, it will require huge gils for that and cruors, even if is true, half of those runs was prolly done with no cells. JUST SAYING, because the T5 was implemented a few days ago
All of a sudden, probability doesn't exist!
HUZZAH! EVERYONE REJOICE!
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01-10-2012 03:02 PM | Camate | Community Rep |  |
| Thanks so much for all the feedback regarding Voidwatch.
I have a couple responses to some of the suggestions and opinions that have been stated. (Sorry it’s a bit long)
Drop rates of equipment for each chapter
There are no drop rate differences for equipment in chapter 1, 2, or 3. Each has the same amount of rarity and there are no differences between chapters.
Bonuses for players who spawn the monster
It would be possible to look into this if other players who pay the costs received the same effects, for example, receiving the same benefits when using the maximum amount of cells. On the other hand, we are not thinking about offering special benefits just for spawning the monster. In extreme cases, only the player spawning the monster would consume Voidstones and continuous battles could take place which would eliminate the good point of Voidwatch where each member receives their own reward and would also develop long claim times.
Cruor needed for atmacite upgrades
For the amount of cruor needed to upgrade atmacites, the idea was not to acquire these beforehand in Abyssea, but to upgrade atmacites while receiving cruor as rewards for Voidwatch. In order to save cruor, it’s possible to increase the amount gained by using cells or participate in battles without spending Voidstones just for cruor rewards.
In regards to other feedback we have received, especially about the areas we plan to focus on to address, I would like to go over the planned adjustments.
Weaknesses and rewards
Since exploiting a monsters weakness is directly linked to the rewards, it seems like players are focusing on creating parties that can quickly defeat monsters whose weaknesses can be exploited easily. As we would like players to utilize weaknesses as an element of strategy, we would also like players to have fun on a larger scale, so we will be looking into making it so that the connection between exploiting weaknesses and the rewards received are not too strong.
Weakness revamps
In order to create battles that can be completed without relying on temporary items, we are planning to revamp weaknesses as well as adjust the distribution of temporary items.
Also, in regards to cases where the weakness is difficult or due to your setup you cannot exploit it even though you determined what it is, we are planning to perform appropriate adjustments. Though we have already received quite a bit of feedback on weakness, if there are any others you would like us to look into please submit your feedback.
Addition of option to destroy rewards
Currently, players need to receive all the rewards at once; however, since it is inconvenient when there is a rare item that you already possess and you are unable to receive the rewards, we will be making it possible to get rid of the item without obtaining it. We are planning to implement this during this week’s test server update.
Subsequent follow-ups
Depending on the route/monster (also depending on players), they are becoming split into popular/unpopular, so we will be continuing to find ways to make it so it will be easy for players that take on these routes later to gather party members.
Also for players that have already cleared these routes, there are already benefits for them to re-do them, such as being able to participate without spending Voidstones and receiving cruor/XP rewards; however, since we feel this isn’t enough, we will be looking into other benefits to participate in fights that have already been completed.
Finally, we plan on discussing topics in regards the loot system in the future, so please continue submitting your feedback. | |
01-16-2012 04:39 PM | Camate | Community Rep |  |
| Hey everyone!
Thank you for all of your feedback.
I would like to answer some of the questions that have been raised in response to the planned adjustments that I announced last week, as well as provide more detailed information on the battle adjustments that will be made.
Now, I am sure that some players are worried that this content will become more difficult to complete or that it will become more difficult to obtain loot, but I would like to assure you that none of the planned adjustments will be disadvantageous for the players.
Freezing issue in certain zones
A lot of players have been reporting freezing issues with Voidwatch in Fort Karugo-Narugo (S). This issue is being addressed with the highest priority.
As a temporary fix, we plan on implementing a Voidwatch battle with the same content as Fort Karugo-Narugo (S) in a different area.
Battle adjustments
Quote: My opinion on Voidwatch is that it is content in which the player must proc weaknesses with the correct timing and use temporary items wisely.
That is exactly what our idea for Voidwatch was at the time of first implementation.
However, recently the issue of only tanks being able to get near the target due to powerful AoE spells has shifted the balance. As a result, players have become more dependent on temporary items and more often than not, players continually proc weaknesses in order to use temporary items. We agree with the players saying that “it’s ridiculous that one hit from an AoE spell kills me,” and this is the issue that we are placing a high priority on resolving.
As a future adjustment, we’re considering lowering the damage that non-targeted characters receive from AoE spells. We will re-evaluate the overall balance once we reduce the damage from AoE spells, but if further adjustments are necessary, we may look into the effects of weaknesses.
※With regard to battle balance, I would like to note that we do not assume that every player has the best armor, such as Aegis and Ochain, or Relic/Mythic/Empyrean Weapons. It is definitely advantageous to have the best gear, but we are making adjustments so that even players without the best gear are able to creatively finish all content.
The separation of exploiting weakness and loot
A specific adjustment we have planned is to set blue and red alignment at their maximum values at the beginning of the battle.
※It would be possible to raise these values even more through ascent items. As a result, players will not have to worry about exploiting weakness in order to obtain better loot. Our aim is for players to only have to consider exploiting weakness as part of their battle strategy. Also, this adjustment will address the difficulty of smaller parties obtaining loot. | |
01-18-2012 04:34 PM | Camate | Community Rep |  |
| Howdy!
I would like to make an addition to a planned adjustment that was announced earlier.
The issue at hand is the highest priority issue that we would like to address first before we make any other adjustments. There are many other adjustments we would like to make, but if we make too many adjustments at once, the following issues may occur:
The balance is shifted too quickly, possibly making the game worse
It is difficult to see improvement because too many changes are made
An unexpected adverse effect occurs due to the changes overlapping
To avoid these problems, it would be best to plan adjustments in order based on priority and their effect.
In response to us making adjustments in stages, many of you may feel that we are not making enough adjustments, but we hope you understand that our plan is to continuously make adjustments.
Also, when leaving feedback I would like to ask that you provide detailed opinions with suggestions for improvement, rather than simply stating whether you like or dislike a proposed adjustment. This would be very helpful for us.
Now, I will address some feedback that has been submitted.
Quote: I personally like the separation of weaknesses and loot, but I feel like this leads to players simply switching to their strongest jobs to finish content. We understand your concern that players will simply switch to their strongest jobs due to the removal of the necessity to proc weaknesses and we’re carefully planning to address this issue.
In order to avoid content becoming monotonous, an idea we are looking into is not completely separating weakness and loot by increasing the maximum bonus attained through cells and other ascent items. As a result, if there are few players involved, using cells will replace having to proc weakness, and for larger parties, it would be possible to avoid paying the high cost for cells by procing weakness as usual.
We may discover some issues with the above proposal upon our extensive review, but we believe that if we completely separate weakness and loot, it is inevitable that players will lean toward using only their strongest jobs.
In order to allow creative freedom in battle, it is necessary to improve the effects of procing weakness, so that it is more enjoyable to use various tactics to proc weaknesses rather than resorting to using the strongest job available. This is a long term goal for us, so it is not possible to make this change all at once, but we will be taking steps one by one to achieve this goal.
Please let us know what you think. | |
01-23-2012 02:22 PM | Camate | Community Rep |  |
| Greetings!
We will be implementing the below adjustments to Voidwatch during this week’s test server update.
Addition of same battle content as Route: Jeuno 2 - Fort Karugo-Narugo (S) to Beaucedine Glacier.
※Beaudedine Glacier has been added to the list of teleports offered by the Atmacite Refiner.
※The above addition is a provisional change.
We will continue to make adjustments as we see how the current AoE damage adjustments affect battles going forward, so please be sure to submit any feedback you have. | |
01-26-2012 01:43 AM | Gildrein | Community Rep |  |
| [dev1075] Voidwatch Adjustments
*The following content is in development. Specific details may differ from the release version.
The Jeuno II Voidwatch operation at Fort Karugo-Narugo (S) may also be undertaken at Beaucedine Glacier.
*Beaucedine Glacier will be added as a destination to Atmacite Refiner teleportation menus.
*This is a temporary measure.
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