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[Dev] Voidwatch: Response to Feedback
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3012
By Fenrir.Leoheart 2012-01-23 14:45:06
Thanks again as always kali~
I don't agree with the nerfing of every end tier mob though x.x
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Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-23 14:48:58
Update on topic today:
01-23-2012 02:22 PM | Camate | Community Rep |  |
| Greetings!
We will be implementing the below adjustments to Voidwatch during this week’s test server update.
Addition of same battle content as Route: Jeuno 2 - Fort Karugo-Narugo (S) to Beaucedine Glacier.
※Beaudedine Glacier has been added to the list of teleports offered by the Atmacite Refiner.
※The above addition is a provisional change.
We will continue to make adjustments as we see how the current AoE damage adjustments affect battles going forward, so please be sure to submit any feedback you have. | |
Thanks again as always kali~
I don't agree with the nerfing of every end tier mob though x.x Same
Lakshmi.Eyrhika
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 764
By Lakshmi.Eyrhika 2012-01-23 14:52:52
Because living through a fight will really make me feel better I got another Mantis Eye
[+]
Leviathan.Joyroth
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 161
By Leviathan.Joyroth 2012-01-23 15:41:11
I personally feel another big problem is the fact that once you get an item from a NM you have almost 0 incentive to go back and do that NM again. There are no additional items or points you can accrue that make it worth doing again. You can argue metal is a point but what about the lower tier NMs or why not just do a NM you need an item from that also drops metal.
Had they added a point system or some other incentive it would alleviate the problem but now as it is, people are working against each other in a way. Every time a person gets an item its one less person you have in your future shouts. I know the popular NM's this might not be so much of a problem (for now), but the lesser NM's you will be looking at an hour+ shout to fill up.
I am definitely feeling the pain from this. As more and more peeps are getting their stuff, I see less and less shouts from certain nms.
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Server: Siren
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-23 16:02:03
Forgot to remove some  bbcode, fixing my posts.
Valefor.Booster
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24
By Valefor.Booster 2012-01-24 20:22:27
Using Coruscanti as an example:
The best estimation of the drop rate we can make is somewhere between 0.1 and 0.2%.
At the best drop rate (0.2%), you'd need to fight Qilin
346 times to have a 50/50 shot at the dagger.
In that time, your alliances "probably" would have seen 4 daggers.
(1 in 83 qilins will drop a dagger 95% of the time)
I got Coruscanti today. I haven't been counting exactly, but I've only done about 16 Qilin ^^
Grats on your deep understanding of statistics.
Congrats on being jelly ^
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Server: Siren
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Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-24 20:24:13
What kind of bump is this >.>
A jelly bump?
Hades.Cheyne
Server: Hades
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9469
By Hades.Cheyne 2012-01-24 20:24:48
What kind of bump is this >.>
A jelly bump?
/bumps jelly doughnuts with Kali.
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-26 01:53:56
Update on topic today, but everything was already said before. Just posting for completeness:
01-26-2012 01:43 AM | Gildrein | Community Rep |  |
| [dev1075] Voidwatch Adjustments
*The following content is in development. Specific details may differ from the release version.
The Jeuno II Voidwatch operation at Fort Karugo-Narugo (S) may also be undertaken at Beaucedine Glacier.
*Beaucedine Glacier will be added as a destination to Atmacite Refiner teleportation menus.
*This is a temporary measure.
| |
Other updates being implemented on the test server:
By Makado 2012-01-26 01:58:15
So instead of 10 dead ppl we'll have 10 ppl at 4 hp woot with bio on or doom
[+]
Quetzalcoatl.Zubis
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 235
By Quetzalcoatl.Zubis 2012-02-01 12:51:04
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/18867-Seriously-VW-loot-system..come-on.?p=271779#post271779
For.the.win.
Quote: Howdy!
I bring some news regarding the Voidwatch loot system, which I think you all will appreciate quite a bit.
The development team has been well aware of all of your frustrations when you friend hears you receive an item that they have been after for some time, but you are unable to pass it to them and have no choice but to toss it.
They have been looking into adjustments to the reward system extremely carefully to preserve the benefit of each person receiving a personal reward when participating, instead of having to lot against others. As a result, they are thinking about implementing the below type of system.
In the event that a rare/ex item drops to you when you already possess the item, it will be possible to exchange that item for a ticket (name pending)
Once you obtain a certain amount of these tickets, it will be possible to exchange them for a rare/ex item of your choice.
*There will be different types of tickets for different items and you will need to collect the respective ticket for the item you would like.
*The required number of tickets is still being looked into and there is a possibility of change, but currently we estimate it to be about 5~6.
Tickets will be tradable and sellable.
The development team feels that this will not destroy the meaning of having personal rewards, and though the drop rate balance will not be changed, even if you continue to have bad luck obtaining the item you wish, by collecting the tickets from your friends you will eventually be able to obtain the item.
Since there are a lot of rewards items, meaning a large amount of tickets to be created, we will start off by looking into implementing the hard to get items first. Please understand that it will take some time before this is all implemented.
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1285
By Phoenix.Dramatica 2012-02-01 12:53:24
Fantastic, this fixes my only major complaint with VW.
Server: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2742
By Fairy.Ghaleon 2012-02-01 12:53:43
[+]
Leviathan.Joyroth
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 161
By Leviathan.Joyroth 2012-02-01 12:54:21
[+]
Cerberus.Tikal
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4947
By Cerberus.Tikal 2012-02-01 12:57:32
VW drops are going to be a dime-a-dozen now, though.
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1285
By Phoenix.Dramatica 2012-02-01 12:58:22
They already are, they just end up on the wrong characters.
Ragnarok.Dreamin
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23
By Ragnarok.Dreamin 2012-02-01 12:58:47
well it's definitely the right step but still doesnt' fix the problem with those unlucky ppl who are 0/250+ on seeing those ra/ex bodies since we still wont' have any tickets to trade them into.
I know that with their proposed changes, we'll be able to just outright and buy enough tickets to trade for the item. But just thought it would be better to add an additional option maybe if the player were to destroy/reject the drop chest outright, they can also walk away with some ticket/token ourselves and not have to BUY all the tickets altogether. Hell, I'll definitely would rather trade in all the Logs/Ores that I mostly npc anyway for some tickets/tokens.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2821
By Odin.Sheelay 2012-02-01 12:59:08
inb4 1000 tickets for Divine logs 1,000,000 tickets for <any valuable item>
[+]
Ragnarok.Crunkie
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 189
By Ragnarok.Crunkie 2012-02-01 13:00:49
inb4 1000 tickets for Divine logs 1,000,000 tickets for <any valuable item>
Says in comment it will be about 5~6 tickets and could possibly change.
Server: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2742
By Fairy.Ghaleon 2012-02-01 13:01:12
inb4 1000 tickets for Divine logs 1,000,000 tickets for <any valuable item>
Quote: "*The required number of tickets is still being looked into and there is a possibility of change, but currently we estimate it to be about 5~6.
Tickets will be tradable and sellable."
5~6 =/= 1000
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2821
By Odin.Sheelay 2012-02-01 13:02:59
inb4 1000 tickets for Divine logs 1,000,000 tickets for <any valuable item>
*The required number of tickets is still being looked into and there is a possibility of change, but currently we estimate it to be about 5~6.
Tickets will be tradable and sellable.
5~6 =/= 1000
I was joking, but this is still SE, the company that will welcome feedback to then put it in the shredder in front of all its customers.
[+]
Bismarck.Ramyrez
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2012-02-01 13:05:27
Quote: Tickets will be tradable and sellable.
Sallable.
Meh.
One of the more redeemable aspects of the VW loot systm is that it means you can't merc the stuff.
But at least this way you may be able to establish some sort of in-ls cooperation to get deserving people items.
Have an lsmate that/s 0/400+ on Kaggen. I'm 0/150+ myself. (edit: lowered my own number there for a more conservative estimate.)
Edit: Thinking about it realistically though, sallable isn't necessarily bad I guess. He's already paying through the nose for Voiddust. I'm starting to run out of Allied Notes myself.
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1285
By Phoenix.Dramatica 2012-02-01 13:07:05
Being able to merc thing isn't an issue anyways. The only time it ever caused problems was with timed spawns and the fact that people would waste pops just to make gil. I think being able to merc things is a great option for people who simply don't have much play time and can't afford to spend it all in VW.
Phoenix.Pooman
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 215
By Phoenix.Pooman 2012-02-01 13:08:34
Proof that they really do listen. Great change.
Bismarck.Ramyrez
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2012-02-01 13:10:37
Phoenix.Dramatica said: »Being able to merc thing isn't an issue anyways. The only time it ever caused problems was with timed spawns and the fact that people would waste pops just to make gil. I think being able to merc things is a great option for people who simply don't have much play time and can't afford to spend it all in VW.
Please note my edit.
There is a purist in me that hates all things merc'ed. It somehow offends my sense of doing it for yourself in the name of mindlessly farming things for gil.
But it's not realistic. I've never merc'ed anything r/ex myself, but even I sell stuff from VW on AH to buy more currency/HMPs/tatters. I'm equally as culpable.
I just like the idea of a non-mercable system.
But again: I see the merit and need.
Fenrir.Jinjo
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Server: Fenrir
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Posts: 2269
By Fenrir.Jinjo 2012-02-01 13:16:48
I approve of these changes. I suggested a 1:1 thing that uses the same system, but of course that would be too easy. Of course.
Also, did you expect that "trade-able" somehow implied without Gil? Lol.
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2012-02-01 13:29:22
sooo i could just buy up some tickets and turn them in for a piece of gear, without having to do VW? This suits my laziness ~.~
Fenrir.Jinjo
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By Fenrir.Jinjo 2012-02-01 13:33:25
You should keep in mind that people may not use stones when they already have the desired item and what not. I doubt ticket prices are going to be anything reasonable, and passing them around for free would obviously be undesirable. It mostly sounds like a solution for, "My mule got the body again," while increasing the number of pieces in existence ever so slightly.
Leviathan.Phenomena
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1922
By Leviathan.Phenomena 2012-02-01 13:39:12
suits me too. lately been doing dyna/emp gun and no time for VW. still on T2 of jeuno >< so being able to get some items would be nice.
though i will still do the fights as i see the shouts for them. because i like to try my luck and the prices on these tickets will be through the roof on most things.
01-10-2012 03:02 PM | Camate | Community Rep |  |
| Thanks so much for all the feedback regarding Voidwatch.
I have a couple responses to some of the suggestions and opinions that have been stated. (Sorry it’s a bit long)
Drop rates of equipment for each chapter
There are no drop rate differences for equipment in chapter 1, 2, or 3. Each has the same amount of rarity and there are no differences between chapters.
Bonuses for players who spawn the monster
It would be possible to look into this if other players who pay the costs received the same effects, for example, receiving the same benefits when using the maximum amount of cells. On the other hand, we are not thinking about offering special benefits just for spawning the monster. In extreme cases, only the player spawning the monster would consume Voidstones and continuous battles could take place which would eliminate the good point of Voidwatch where each member receives their own reward and would also develop long claim times.
Cruor needed for atmacite upgrades
For the amount of cruor needed to upgrade atmacites, the idea was not to acquire these beforehand in Abyssea, but to upgrade atmacites while receiving cruor as rewards for Voidwatch. In order to save cruor, it’s possible to increase the amount gained by using cells or participate in battles without spending Voidstones just for cruor rewards.
In regards to other feedback we have received, especially about the areas we plan to focus on to address, I would like to go over the planned adjustments.
Weaknesses and rewards
Since exploiting a monsters weakness is directly linked to the rewards, it seems like players are focusing on creating parties that can quickly defeat monsters whose weaknesses can be exploited easily. As we would like players to utilize weaknesses as an element of strategy, we would also like players to have fun on a larger scale, so we will be looking into making it so that the connection between exploiting weaknesses and the rewards received are not too strong.
Weakness revamps
In order to create battles that can be completed without relying on temporary items, we are planning to revamp weaknesses as well as adjust the distribution of temporary items.
Also, in regards to cases where the weakness is difficult or due to your setup you cannot exploit it even though you determined what it is, we are planning to perform appropriate adjustments. Though we have already received quite a bit of feedback on weakness, if there are any others you would like us to look into please submit your feedback.
Addition of option to destroy rewards
Currently, players need to receive all the rewards at once; however, since it is inconvenient when there is a rare item that you already possess and you are unable to receive the rewards, we will be making it possible to get rid of the item without obtaining it. We are planning to implement this during this week’s test server update.
Subsequent follow-ups
Depending on the route/monster (also depending on players), they are becoming split into popular/unpopular, so we will be continuing to find ways to make it so it will be easy for players that take on these routes later to gather party members.
Also for players that have already cleared these routes, there are already benefits for them to re-do them, such as being able to participate without spending Voidstones and receiving cruor/XP rewards; however, since we feel this isn’t enough, we will be looking into other benefits to participate in fights that have already been completed.
Finally, we plan on discussing topics in regards the loot system in the future, so please continue submitting your feedback. | |
01-16-2012 04:39 PM | Camate | Community Rep |  |
| Hey everyone!
Thank you for all of your feedback.
I would like to answer some of the questions that have been raised in response to the planned adjustments that I announced last week, as well as provide more detailed information on the battle adjustments that will be made.
Now, I am sure that some players are worried that this content will become more difficult to complete or that it will become more difficult to obtain loot, but I would like to assure you that none of the planned adjustments will be disadvantageous for the players.
Freezing issue in certain zones
A lot of players have been reporting freezing issues with Voidwatch in Fort Karugo-Narugo (S). This issue is being addressed with the highest priority.
As a temporary fix, we plan on implementing a Voidwatch battle with the same content as Fort Karugo-Narugo (S) in a different area.
Battle adjustments
Quote: My opinion on Voidwatch is that it is content in which the player must proc weaknesses with the correct timing and use temporary items wisely.
That is exactly what our idea for Voidwatch was at the time of first implementation.
However, recently the issue of only tanks being able to get near the target due to powerful AoE spells has shifted the balance. As a result, players have become more dependent on temporary items and more often than not, players continually proc weaknesses in order to use temporary items. We agree with the players saying that “it’s ridiculous that one hit from an AoE spell kills me,” and this is the issue that we are placing a high priority on resolving.
As a future adjustment, we’re considering lowering the damage that non-targeted characters receive from AoE spells. We will re-evaluate the overall balance once we reduce the damage from AoE spells, but if further adjustments are necessary, we may look into the effects of weaknesses.
※With regard to battle balance, I would like to note that we do not assume that every player has the best armor, such as Aegis and Ochain, or Relic/Mythic/Empyrean Weapons. It is definitely advantageous to have the best gear, but we are making adjustments so that even players without the best gear are able to creatively finish all content.
The separation of exploiting weakness and loot
A specific adjustment we have planned is to set blue and red alignment at their maximum values at the beginning of the battle.
※It would be possible to raise these values even more through ascent items. As a result, players will not have to worry about exploiting weakness in order to obtain better loot. Our aim is for players to only have to consider exploiting weakness as part of their battle strategy. Also, this adjustment will address the difficulty of smaller parties obtaining loot. | |
01-18-2012 04:34 PM | Camate | Community Rep |  |
| Howdy!
I would like to make an addition to a planned adjustment that was announced earlier.
The issue at hand is the highest priority issue that we would like to address first before we make any other adjustments. There are many other adjustments we would like to make, but if we make too many adjustments at once, the following issues may occur:
The balance is shifted too quickly, possibly making the game worse
It is difficult to see improvement because too many changes are made
An unexpected adverse effect occurs due to the changes overlapping
To avoid these problems, it would be best to plan adjustments in order based on priority and their effect.
In response to us making adjustments in stages, many of you may feel that we are not making enough adjustments, but we hope you understand that our plan is to continuously make adjustments.
Also, when leaving feedback I would like to ask that you provide detailed opinions with suggestions for improvement, rather than simply stating whether you like or dislike a proposed adjustment. This would be very helpful for us.
Now, I will address some feedback that has been submitted.
Quote: I personally like the separation of weaknesses and loot, but I feel like this leads to players simply switching to their strongest jobs to finish content. We understand your concern that players will simply switch to their strongest jobs due to the removal of the necessity to proc weaknesses and we’re carefully planning to address this issue.
In order to avoid content becoming monotonous, an idea we are looking into is not completely separating weakness and loot by increasing the maximum bonus attained through cells and other ascent items. As a result, if there are few players involved, using cells will replace having to proc weakness, and for larger parties, it would be possible to avoid paying the high cost for cells by procing weakness as usual.
We may discover some issues with the above proposal upon our extensive review, but we believe that if we completely separate weakness and loot, it is inevitable that players will lean toward using only their strongest jobs.
In order to allow creative freedom in battle, it is necessary to improve the effects of procing weakness, so that it is more enjoyable to use various tactics to proc weaknesses rather than resorting to using the strongest job available. This is a long term goal for us, so it is not possible to make this change all at once, but we will be taking steps one by one to achieve this goal.
Please let us know what you think. | |
01-23-2012 02:22 PM | Camate | Community Rep |  |
| Greetings!
We will be implementing the below adjustments to Voidwatch during this week’s test server update.
Addition of same battle content as Route: Jeuno 2 - Fort Karugo-Narugo (S) to Beaucedine Glacier.
※Beaudedine Glacier has been added to the list of teleports offered by the Atmacite Refiner.
※The above addition is a provisional change.
We will continue to make adjustments as we see how the current AoE damage adjustments affect battles going forward, so please be sure to submit any feedback you have. | |
01-26-2012 01:43 AM | Gildrein | Community Rep |  |
| [dev1075] Voidwatch Adjustments
*The following content is in development. Specific details may differ from the release version.
The Jeuno II Voidwatch operation at Fort Karugo-Narugo (S) may also be undertaken at Beaucedine Glacier.
*Beaucedine Glacier will be added as a destination to Atmacite Refiner teleportation menus.
*This is a temporary measure.
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