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[Dev] Voidwatch: Response to Feedback
Server: Bismarck
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Posts: 9553
By Bismarck.Moonlightespada 2012-01-16 12:31:31
this has to be one of the first things ive agreed with tht ya have said elanabelle lol
the loot system is ompleate crap and random <ive DCd at pop of Quilin and got back on 10 sec before the chest depopped and got a heavy metal pouch. but stayed on for 4 more pops and got total crap like wood and ores that didnt even noc over 5k total lol. so dont do crap and i got a pouch, work my *** off and get crap>
so yea they need a point system or something for em. so much crap i want from em and cant even make gil off of it to buy em. 1/60ish runs have i ever gotten anything worth selling -,-
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By Bismarck.Elanabelle 2012-01-16 12:45:43
Yes, that's the complaint that LOTS of people have about Voidwatch's loot system, Moonlight.
You're definitely not alone. One's chance at receiving the super-rare loot from Voidwatch should be based on SOMETHING more than just total random luck. Right now, that's all that's required: show up, use a Voidstone, doesn't matter if you're highly-involved in the battle or just standing still picking your nose ... you get the same (pathetically low) chance to acquire the highly-desirable loot.
That's W-E-A-K.
I say everyone should just continue to complain about this regularly and frequently to S-E on the Official Forums. That way, even if they choose to ignore us, there will be PLENTY of proof of our dissatisfaction (plus simple suggestions on how to revamp and improve the Voidwatch loot distribution system!) right there staring S-E in the face. If they have a massive amount of legitimate complaints, all about the same identified fixable problem ... and they still choose to ignore the issue, then they'll have no one to blame but themselves when the rate of players quitting FFXI rises and their revenues start dropping off.
VIP
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-16 16:48:14
Update on topic today:
01-16-2012 04:39 PM | Camate | Community Rep |  |
| Hey everyone!
Thank you for all of your feedback.
I would like to answer some of the questions that have been raised in response to the planned adjustments that I announced last week, as well as provide more detailed information on the battle adjustments that will be made.
Now, I am sure that some players are worried that this content will become more difficult to complete or that it will become more difficult to obtain loot, but I would like to assure you that none of the planned adjustments will be disadvantageous for the players.
Freezing issue in certain zones
A lot of players have been reporting freezing issues with Voidwatch in Fort Karugo-Narugo (S). This issue is being addressed with the highest priority.
As a temporary fix, we plan on implementing a Voidwatch battle with the same content as Fort Karugo-Narugo (S) in a different area.
Battle adjustments
Quote: My opinion on Voidwatch is that it is content in which the player must proc weaknesses with the correct timing and use temporary items wisely.
That is exactly what our idea for Voidwatch was at the time of first implementation.
However, recently the issue of only tanks being able to get near the target due to powerful AoE spells has shifted the balance. As a result, players have become more dependent on temporary items and more often than not, players continually proc weaknesses in order to use temporary items. We agree with the players saying that “it’s ridiculous that one hit from an AoE spell kills me,” and this is the issue that we are placing a high priority on resolving.
As a future adjustment, we’re considering lowering the damage that non-targeted characters receive from AoE spells. We will re-evaluate the overall balance once we reduce the damage from AoE spells, but if further adjustments are necessary, we may look into the effects of weaknesses.
※With regard to battle balance, I would like to note that we do not assume that every player has the best armor, such as Aegis and Ochain, or Relic/Mythic/Empyrean Weapons. It is definitely advantageous to have the best gear, but we are making adjustments so that even players without the best gear are able to creatively finish all content.
The separation of exploiting weakness and loot
A specific adjustment we have planned is to set blue and red alignment at their maximum values at the beginning of the battle.
※It would be possible to raise these values even more through ascent items. As a result, players will not have to worry about exploiting weakness in order to obtain better loot. Our aim is for players to only have to consider exploiting weakness as part of their battle strategy. Also, this adjustment will address the difficulty of smaller parties obtaining loot. | |
By Zeyphr 2012-01-16 16:52:08
So in other words.. we'r going to be starting the fight with capped lights, which isn't really capped meaning we still get logs? @_@
Phoenix.Sehachan
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By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-01-16 16:52:47
So in other words.. we'r going to be starting the fight with capped lights, which isn't really capped meaning we still get logs? @_@ That's not all there is to it.
We'll get MORE logs now.
Fenrir.Demomo
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By Fenrir.Demomo 2012-01-16 16:53:06
Words cannot describe.... so instead.....
Server: Bismarck
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By Bismarck.Elanabelle 2012-01-16 16:54:32
I'm glad the Developers are keeping their ears to the ground regarding player feedback on Voidwatch ... but it still seems like they're listening, but with a LOT of earwax built-up in their ear canals.
They need to address the loot distribution system for Voidwatch. All these other adjustments are nice ... sort of, maybe ... but they don't improve the aspect of Voidwatch that is the most in-need of revamping.
By Zeyphr 2012-01-16 17:00:47
Bismarck.Elanabelle said: »I'm glad the Developers are keeping their ears to the ground regarding player feedback on Voidwatch ... but it still seems like they're listening, but with a LOT of earwax built-up in their ear canals.
They need to address the loot distribution system for Voidwatch. All these other adjustments are nice ... sort of, maybe ... but they don't improve the aspect of Voidwatch that is the most in-need of revamping.
1 thing at a time is the motto SE follows. Fix the easiest/pointless stuff first, then tackle the big task at hand!
But seriously, there starting to listen which is a good sign.
Asura.Yoyou
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By Asura.Yoyou 2012-01-16 17:05:43
/NINJA is making a comeback?
Otherwise I would explain the adjustment how "AoE abilities will deal the 95% dmg of your max HP" dmg reduced by xgear xsets etc?
Server: Phoenix
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2012-01-16 17:20:20
The light adjustment is great for lowman or low tier ***that dies fast.
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Server: Shiva
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2012-01-16 18:04:50
so you can walk in there now and not worry about proc? So all of the dead jobs that were just used to proc can go back to being dead? lol
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Ragnarok.Nekonarf
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By Ragnarok.Nekonarf 2012-01-16 18:07:27
Good lord do you mean I will actually be able to tank Botolus Rex and Ig-allima without the support of fanatics spam in hopes they I don't get smacked for 2,000?
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2012-01-16 18:09:22
Yes, dead jobs stay dead unless the fight requires procs to survive.
Ragnarok.Afania
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
By Ragnarok.Afania 2012-01-16 18:11:56
so you can walk in there now and not worry about proc? So all of the dead jobs that were just used to proc can go back to being dead? lol
Seems to be that getting proc can still gives certain advantage, just not 100% needed if you want the items.
So proc *** jobs is still nice to have to make fights easier, but if you can't find proc *** jobs then just zerg it to death you still gonna get red light capped.
Bahamut.Dannyl
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By Bahamut.Dannyl 2012-01-16 18:39:42
Quote: A specific adjustment we have planned is to set blue and red alignment at their maximum values at the beginning of the battle.
HAHAHAHHAHAHAH. Way to NOT address the real issue.
By Fupafighters 2012-01-16 18:42:56
Bismarck.Elanabelle said: »I'm glad the Developers are keeping their ears to the ground regarding player feedback on Voidwatch ... but it still seems like they're listening, but with a LOT of earwax built-up in their ear canals.
They need to address the loot distribution system for Voidwatch. All these other adjustments are nice ... sort of, maybe ... but they don't improve the aspect of Voidwatch that is the most in-need of revamping. Who cares if they take forever to get lol.... we would have nothing to do...and metals still drop. Just keep at it.....
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By Asura.Vrytreya 2012-01-16 20:42:39
Not sure if like..
This is throwing VW more to the casual side?
They haven't explained what they really want by having proc'ing weakness as part of battle strategy? Are they going to make it less useful than currently what is it now (stunned for 5,20,30 secs) or make it more useful (I can't really imagine that).
If they are to make it less useful, then I don't know how they can call the system has more strategical value.
If they are to make it more useful, then I don't know what can be the more advantageous situation it will bring.
Quetzalcoatl.Zubis
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By Quetzalcoatl.Zubis 2012-01-16 20:49:47
Quote: ※With regard to battle balance, I would like to note that we do not assume that every player has the best armor, such as Aegis and Ochain, or Relic/Mythic/Empyrean Weapons. It is definitely advantageous to have the best gear, but we are making adjustments so that even players without the best gear are able to creatively finish all content.
Given that my last three attempts to join random VW alliances have been declined since I did not have an Ukonvasara as WAR or an Ochain as PLD I like this comment best of all.
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By Asura.Vrytreya 2012-01-16 20:55:36
VW is already easy with what it is, given 18 players taking the responsibility proc'ing what they could. I'm really baffled at people putting empy/relic weapon requirement in order to join a group.
Ragnarok.Nekonarf
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By Ragnarok.Nekonarf 2012-01-16 21:09:53
Yay can't wait to see perle bst up in this event.
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Bismarck.Snprphnx
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By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2012-01-16 21:13:06
So, I think an immediate drop in cells will be happening due to max values. Back to blinkers.
Also, it wouldn't be hard to fix the loot issue. Leave the drop rate as it is as a baseline for each NM, then every kill you get, the rare item drop rate for you goes up 1-2%. Once you get the item, the server tags your toon and you can no longer be elegible for that drop again, even if you drop it.
Yea, some people will still get it on the first kill, but everyone will get within a reasonable time frame if they stay focused.
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Server: Shiva
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Posts: 71
By Shiva.Bigslank 2012-01-16 21:17:58
from what i can tell void is just like any other BCM thing.
you got mostly random crap from them and if u got the good item it was pure luck isn't this just like void so whats all the crying about
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By Bismarck.Elanabelle 2012-01-16 21:48:10
from what i can tell void is just like any other BCM thing.
you got mostly random crap from them and if u got the good item it was pure luck isn't this just like void so whats all the crying about
You don't get out much, eh?
They're not the same, or similar, at all.
BCNM type battles have "groups" of loot, and an item may or may not drop from that loot "group" each victory, depending on the parameters S-E sets for that "group".
For example, S-E might program a BCNM battle with three loot "groups". Upon victory, opening the Chest/Casket/etc, the player/party/alliance receives one 100% drop item from "group A"; it's the same item every time. They also receive a second 100% drop item from "group B", but from this group, the 100% drop could be any one of four distinct items. Lastly, the group has a 50% chance of receiving another specific item for "group C". If the 50%-rate item doesn't load for that particular loot pool, then the player/party/alliance doesn't get anything from "group C", and thus the Treasure Pool loads only two items. Even though only two items show up, the three loot "groups" are still there; just in this case, "group C" produced Null.
Voidwatch, as it is now, is entirely different. Every single player gets a individualized Treasure pile, which almost without fail (assuming "full red/blue lights") loads 4-5 garbage items automatically ... and one slot capable of producing one amazing item, or any of one of about a dozen or twenty mediocre items. Now that sounds ok and all ... but the problem lies in the assumed fact that S-E caps the number of amazing items that can be dropped during each victory. THAT is what seriously blows.
In other words, if every participant in a Voidwatch victory had the same equal/level reasonable chance to acquire the "amazing item", then in theory (however unlikely) it would be POSSIBLE for all 18 Members of the Alliance to get the item during the same kill. We know that's not how it works, however. Rather, each person has to ...
First roll the opportunity to get something other than garbage in his/her first Treasure slot, then ...
Roll the opportunity to get the amazing item, rather than one of the mediocre items that usually occupy the first Treasure slot, if you were lucky enough to not just get garbage, and then ...
It seems there's a check in S-E's system to ensure that even if multiple people in an alliance happen to beat those difficult odds (with luck) ... the "amazing item" can only drop to 1 (maybe 2?) people in the alliance anyways.
I'd take my chances getting the "drop" from a BCNM any day over my chances of getting the "drop" from a Voidwatch pool.
Other than the Kraken Club, BCNM drop rate on "the drop" is generally 10-30%. In Voidwatch, you have like a 1% chance, maybe. It blows.
Bahamut.Danthebk
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Posts: 198
By Bahamut.Danthebk 2012-01-16 22:02:06
Ragnarok.Nekonarf said: »Yay can't wait to see perle bst up in this event.
I already see perle bsts in VW. They're just not wearing full perle anymore because they went 1/1 on toci's harness after asking what cells are and stating that they don't have any.
By Chyula 2012-01-16 22:20:27
I think this will likely be the new adjustment to lights.
1. start battle with capped light e.g. capped 525% red and slowly droping each time you proc.
2. Cell still useful for final calculation, so you get 150% lights to play with on proc before getting the bite on your final 525% calculation.
3. the downside to this is that we have to use blue light cell too ><.
4. Player will no longer zerg during a stagger because blitz will decrease your light value.
5. if the above is true, then we'll end up trigger the mob just for refilling temp items and spam fanatic to zerg again when it is out of stagger mode.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-01-16 22:34:15
I think what you meant to say was, if the above is true, then *** that because that's the stupidest idea in history.
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Fenrir.Curty
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 587
By Fenrir.Curty 2012-01-16 22:50:54
I think this will likely be the new adjustment to lights.
1. start battle with capped light e.g. capped 525% red and slowly droping each time you proc.
2. Cell still useful for final calculation, so you get 150% lights to play with on proc before getting the bite on your final 525% calculation.
3. the downside to this is that we have to use blue light cell too ><.
4. Player will no longer zerg during a stagger because blitz will decrease your light value.
5. if the above is true, then we'll end up trigger the mob just for refilling temp items and spam fanatic to zerg again when it is out of stagger mode.
lol no.
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By Chyula 2012-01-16 23:19:20
Valefor.Prothescar said: »I think what you meant to say was, if the above is true, then *** that because that's the stupidest idea in history.
yes I know its dumb, but this SE and ppl been complaining about VW being too easy because of fanatic spam and proc lock until the mob is dead. This way we'll not keep it locked and it'll automatically add more challenge to the fight, also with lights decreasing on each proc we'll have to rely less on temp item and develope better strategy to approach each fight. Now the million dollar question is will SE fix the god damn kill at will AOE spam *** or decrease the weakness timer on a real tanks(pld and nin), maybe lowering the weakness timer on pld and nin will increasing the desire to have these jobs tank again. /shrug.
By Fupafighters 2012-01-16 23:23:03
Lol are you serious? PDT MDT set... aoe shouldnt be 1 shotting you....
01-10-2012 03:02 PM | Camate | Community Rep |  |
| Thanks so much for all the feedback regarding Voidwatch.
I have a couple responses to some of the suggestions and opinions that have been stated. (Sorry it’s a bit long)
Drop rates of equipment for each chapter
There are no drop rate differences for equipment in chapter 1, 2, or 3. Each has the same amount of rarity and there are no differences between chapters.
Bonuses for players who spawn the monster
It would be possible to look into this if other players who pay the costs received the same effects, for example, receiving the same benefits when using the maximum amount of cells. On the other hand, we are not thinking about offering special benefits just for spawning the monster. In extreme cases, only the player spawning the monster would consume Voidstones and continuous battles could take place which would eliminate the good point of Voidwatch where each member receives their own reward and would also develop long claim times.
Cruor needed for atmacite upgrades
For the amount of cruor needed to upgrade atmacites, the idea was not to acquire these beforehand in Abyssea, but to upgrade atmacites while receiving cruor as rewards for Voidwatch. In order to save cruor, it’s possible to increase the amount gained by using cells or participate in battles without spending Voidstones just for cruor rewards.
In regards to other feedback we have received, especially about the areas we plan to focus on to address, I would like to go over the planned adjustments.
Weaknesses and rewards
Since exploiting a monsters weakness is directly linked to the rewards, it seems like players are focusing on creating parties that can quickly defeat monsters whose weaknesses can be exploited easily. As we would like players to utilize weaknesses as an element of strategy, we would also like players to have fun on a larger scale, so we will be looking into making it so that the connection between exploiting weaknesses and the rewards received are not too strong.
Weakness revamps
In order to create battles that can be completed without relying on temporary items, we are planning to revamp weaknesses as well as adjust the distribution of temporary items.
Also, in regards to cases where the weakness is difficult or due to your setup you cannot exploit it even though you determined what it is, we are planning to perform appropriate adjustments. Though we have already received quite a bit of feedback on weakness, if there are any others you would like us to look into please submit your feedback.
Addition of option to destroy rewards
Currently, players need to receive all the rewards at once; however, since it is inconvenient when there is a rare item that you already possess and you are unable to receive the rewards, we will be making it possible to get rid of the item without obtaining it. We are planning to implement this during this week’s test server update.
Subsequent follow-ups
Depending on the route/monster (also depending on players), they are becoming split into popular/unpopular, so we will be continuing to find ways to make it so it will be easy for players that take on these routes later to gather party members.
Also for players that have already cleared these routes, there are already benefits for them to re-do them, such as being able to participate without spending Voidstones and receiving cruor/XP rewards; however, since we feel this isn’t enough, we will be looking into other benefits to participate in fights that have already been completed.
Finally, we plan on discussing topics in regards the loot system in the future, so please continue submitting your feedback. | |
01-16-2012 04:39 PM | Camate | Community Rep |  |
| Hey everyone!
Thank you for all of your feedback.
I would like to answer some of the questions that have been raised in response to the planned adjustments that I announced last week, as well as provide more detailed information on the battle adjustments that will be made.
Now, I am sure that some players are worried that this content will become more difficult to complete or that it will become more difficult to obtain loot, but I would like to assure you that none of the planned adjustments will be disadvantageous for the players.
Freezing issue in certain zones
A lot of players have been reporting freezing issues with Voidwatch in Fort Karugo-Narugo (S). This issue is being addressed with the highest priority.
As a temporary fix, we plan on implementing a Voidwatch battle with the same content as Fort Karugo-Narugo (S) in a different area.
Battle adjustments
Quote: My opinion on Voidwatch is that it is content in which the player must proc weaknesses with the correct timing and use temporary items wisely.
That is exactly what our idea for Voidwatch was at the time of first implementation.
However, recently the issue of only tanks being able to get near the target due to powerful AoE spells has shifted the balance. As a result, players have become more dependent on temporary items and more often than not, players continually proc weaknesses in order to use temporary items. We agree with the players saying that “it’s ridiculous that one hit from an AoE spell kills me,” and this is the issue that we are placing a high priority on resolving.
As a future adjustment, we’re considering lowering the damage that non-targeted characters receive from AoE spells. We will re-evaluate the overall balance once we reduce the damage from AoE spells, but if further adjustments are necessary, we may look into the effects of weaknesses.
※With regard to battle balance, I would like to note that we do not assume that every player has the best armor, such as Aegis and Ochain, or Relic/Mythic/Empyrean Weapons. It is definitely advantageous to have the best gear, but we are making adjustments so that even players without the best gear are able to creatively finish all content.
The separation of exploiting weakness and loot
A specific adjustment we have planned is to set blue and red alignment at their maximum values at the beginning of the battle.
※It would be possible to raise these values even more through ascent items. As a result, players will not have to worry about exploiting weakness in order to obtain better loot. Our aim is for players to only have to consider exploiting weakness as part of their battle strategy. Also, this adjustment will address the difficulty of smaller parties obtaining loot. | |
01-18-2012 04:34 PM | Camate | Community Rep |  |
| Howdy!
I would like to make an addition to a planned adjustment that was announced earlier.
The issue at hand is the highest priority issue that we would like to address first before we make any other adjustments. There are many other adjustments we would like to make, but if we make too many adjustments at once, the following issues may occur:
The balance is shifted too quickly, possibly making the game worse
It is difficult to see improvement because too many changes are made
An unexpected adverse effect occurs due to the changes overlapping
To avoid these problems, it would be best to plan adjustments in order based on priority and their effect.
In response to us making adjustments in stages, many of you may feel that we are not making enough adjustments, but we hope you understand that our plan is to continuously make adjustments.
Also, when leaving feedback I would like to ask that you provide detailed opinions with suggestions for improvement, rather than simply stating whether you like or dislike a proposed adjustment. This would be very helpful for us.
Now, I will address some feedback that has been submitted.
Quote: I personally like the separation of weaknesses and loot, but I feel like this leads to players simply switching to their strongest jobs to finish content. We understand your concern that players will simply switch to their strongest jobs due to the removal of the necessity to proc weaknesses and we’re carefully planning to address this issue.
In order to avoid content becoming monotonous, an idea we are looking into is not completely separating weakness and loot by increasing the maximum bonus attained through cells and other ascent items. As a result, if there are few players involved, using cells will replace having to proc weakness, and for larger parties, it would be possible to avoid paying the high cost for cells by procing weakness as usual.
We may discover some issues with the above proposal upon our extensive review, but we believe that if we completely separate weakness and loot, it is inevitable that players will lean toward using only their strongest jobs.
In order to allow creative freedom in battle, it is necessary to improve the effects of procing weakness, so that it is more enjoyable to use various tactics to proc weaknesses rather than resorting to using the strongest job available. This is a long term goal for us, so it is not possible to make this change all at once, but we will be taking steps one by one to achieve this goal.
Please let us know what you think. | |
01-23-2012 02:22 PM | Camate | Community Rep |  |
| Greetings!
We will be implementing the below adjustments to Voidwatch during this week’s test server update.
Addition of same battle content as Route: Jeuno 2 - Fort Karugo-Narugo (S) to Beaucedine Glacier.
※Beaudedine Glacier has been added to the list of teleports offered by the Atmacite Refiner.
※The above addition is a provisional change.
We will continue to make adjustments as we see how the current AoE damage adjustments affect battles going forward, so please be sure to submit any feedback you have. | |
01-26-2012 01:43 AM | Gildrein | Community Rep |  |
| [dev1075] Voidwatch Adjustments
*The following content is in development. Specific details may differ from the release version.
The Jeuno II Voidwatch operation at Fort Karugo-Narugo (S) may also be undertaken at Beaucedine Glacier.
*Beaucedine Glacier will be added as a destination to Atmacite Refiner teleportation menus.
*This is a temporary measure.
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