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[Dev] Voidwatch: Response to Feedback
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-01-12 14:47:47
@Kalilla
i actually think voidwatch is way too easy to do, it's ridiculous how people spam ws's/gain tp like crazy in a few seconds with almost infinite mp on mages because the temp items replenishing, thats why ppl can do 100-200 runs in 2 or 3 days , and because of that.. ppl think they deserve gear with a quickness
Exaggerate much?
And yes, I see why you like the system as it is by looking at your profile page. 1/10 toci's and 1/17 heka's or something? That's damn lucky, there are a LOT of people who are 0/100+ and not to mention 0/300+ on the body they want - while they watch a friend get the body for the 3rd time. nah, im about 0/70+ on Ogier body and im not complaining, i dont think i deserve it yet because i did like 20 ig-alima runs in just one night
You seem to be a confused individual.
 Asura.Fondue
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2446
By Asura.Fondue 2012-01-12 14:50:35
@Kalilla
i actually think voidwatch is way too easy to do, it's ridiculous how people spam ws's/gain tp like crazy in a few seconds with almost infinite mp on mages because the temp items replenishing, thats why ppl can do 100-200 runs in 2 or 3 days , and because of that.. ppl think they deserve gear with a quickness
Exaggerate much?
And yes, I see why you like the system as it is by looking at your profile page. 1/10 toci's and 1/17 heka's or something? That's damn lucky, there are a LOT of people who are 0/100+ and not to mention 0/300+ on the body they want - while they watch a friend get the body for the 3rd time. nah, im about 0/70+ on Ogier body and im not complaining, i dont think i deserve it yet because i did like 20 ig-alima runs in just one night 
we get it, go away
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By Zeyphr 2012-01-12 14:51:59
@Kalilla
i actually think voidwatch is way too easy to do, it's ridiculous how people spam ws's/gain tp like crazy in a few seconds with almost infinite mp on mages because the temp items replenishing, thats why ppl can do 100-200 runs in 2 or 3 days , and because of that.. ppl think they deserve gear with a quickness
Exaggerate much?
And yes, I see why you like the system as it is by looking at your profile page. 1/10 toci's and 1/17 heka's or something? That's damn lucky, there are a LOT of people who are 0/100+ and not to mention 0/300+ on the body they want - while they watch a friend get the body for the 3rd time. nah, im about 0/70+ on Ogier body and im not complaining, i dont think i deserve it yet because i did like 20 ig-alima runs in just one night
So if someone tags along and goes 1/1 on the body, does that mean they deserve it, even if they've never fought Ig-Alima before?
Your basically saying you don't deserve a piece of gear til you kill it.. 70+ times? ;s
 Ramuh.Krizz
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23561
By Ramuh.Krizz 2012-01-12 14:54:04
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Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3012
By Fenrir.Leoheart 2012-01-12 14:54:15
I'm 0/8 on Heka's Kalasiris
FML
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Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 14:56:13
I'm 0/8 on Heka's Kalasiris
FML Poor you :(
*gives a cookie*
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Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-01-12 14:56:23
Successfully fighting Ig-Alima, assuming full participation toward the completion of the battle, assumes that you deserve the drop even if you go 1/1. Attributing the luck factor into whether or not the drop is deserved is ***.
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Server: Siren
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 14:57:08
Noooooo don't do it krizz!
This thread has a lot of good ideas, just there is too much conflict of opinion going on ; ;
By Zeyphr 2012-01-12 14:58:10
Noooooo don't do it krizz!
This thread has a lot of good ideas, just there is too much conflict of opinion going on ; ;
Good ideas that SE will probobly just walk past and do the complete opposite
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Server: Siren
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 14:59:49
Noooooo don't do it krizz!
This thread has a lot of good ideas, just there is too much conflict of opinion going on ; ;
Good ideas that SE will probobly just walk past and do the complete opposite I have no question in my mind that they will, it's still fun to talk about.
Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-01-12 14:59:52
Using Coruscanti as an example:
The best estimation of the drop rate we can make is somewhere between 0.1 and 0.2%.
At the best drop rate (0.2%), you'd need to fight Qilin
346 times to have a 50/50 shot at the dagger.
In that time, your alliances "probably" would have seen 4 daggers.
(1 in 83 qilins will drop a dagger 95% of the time)
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Asura.Fondue
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2446
By Asura.Fondue 2012-01-12 15:02:41
how many stones would you have built up by now not using any since day 1?
 Asura.Tamoa
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1341
By Asura.Tamoa 2012-01-12 15:03:10
Using Coruscanti as an example:
The best estimation of the drop rate we can make is somewhere between 0.1 and 0.2%.
At the best drop rate (0.2%), you'd need to fight Qilin
346 times to have a 50/50 shot at the dagger.
In that time, your alliances "probably" would have seen 4 daggers.
(1 in 83 qilins will drop a dagger 95% of the time)
And you all know that 3 of those will go to the same person, and the 4th will go to someone who can't equip it...
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Server: Siren
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 15:03:14
how many stones would you have built up by now not using any since day 1? 350'ish
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3012
By Fenrir.Leoheart 2012-01-12 15:03:17
how many stones would you have built up by now not using any since day 1?
only done like 40ish runs and i'm hovering anywhere inbetween 400-500 I think
Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-01-12 15:16:33
The bodies appear to have a slightly higher drop rat%e. I'd estimate it as 0.5%.
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1285
By Phoenix.Dramatica 2012-01-12 15:20:51
Bodies have a much higher drop rate than that dagger. Qillin is one of my most spammed NMs and have yet to see anyone in the alliance get a dagger. HQ weapons are like the "drings" of voidwatch. I usually see at least one body a run.
Ragnarok.Ashman
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4252
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2012-01-12 15:25:07
I don't get how SE can say "droprates are the same for all the tiers".
When I do gaunab, half the alliance gets pants and every gets at least 2 guns before all 4 runs are done.
When we do hahava it takes 12 runs to get a single body. Pil is the same way half the time. Most of the people I know who wanted Kaggen body are 1/100+
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Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-01-12 15:26:02
At 0.5%, you'll see a body to the alliance half the time over 8 fights. You need to do the fight 600ish times to nearly guarantee the drop to yourself (95% chance)
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-01-12 15:26:22
Would put NQ weapons and bodies in the same drop percentage category tbh. HQ weapons are an entirely different beast.
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Server: Siren
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 15:26:38
I don't get how SE can say "droprates are the same for all the tiers".
When I do gaunab, half the alliance gets pants and every gets at least 2 guns before all 4 runs are done.
When we do hahava it takes 12 runs to get a single body. Pil is the same way half the time. Most of the people I know who wanted Kaggen body are 1/100+ It might be because drop rates are all the same, for that type of item.
Bodies probably all have the same drop rate %, ect.
By Fupafighters 2012-01-12 15:32:13
I'm 0/8 on Heka's Kalasiris
FML Congratulations?
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3012
By Fenrir.Leoheart 2012-01-12 15:49:03
I'm 0/8 on Heka's Kalasiris
FML Congratulations?
[+]
Ragnarok.Ashman
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4252
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2012-01-12 15:52:15
This is entirely eyeballing but I feel there is an A, a B, and a C drop on the T3 jeuno and T6 jeuno (and zilart etc). A slot would be the body, B slot would be the phasmida belt, and C slot would be the mantis eye (kaggen as example).
It seems like A would be .5%, B 5%, and C 20% (pulled out of my ***) for jeuno whereas A would be 5%, B 10% and C 30-40% for jeuno T6 (not ig or botulus but the mantis etc). Yes it is eyeballing but its eyeballing over the course of 400 stones.
Lakshmi.Byrth
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Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6381
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2012-01-12 15:57:49
I don't know about the drop rates particularly, but I'd put the system more like this:
* There is one slot shared between Heavy Metal, Scrolls, Riftsand, Rift Items, and the three items per NM.
* Whether or not the slot loads at all depends on your Red light.
* If the slot loads, the pieces have whatever drop rates they have (one medium, one low, one very low).
I think that's how SE is generating such low drop rates. It's actually two chances, and I'd say that the chance the slot loads is somewhere around Red%/10.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 368
By Asura.Wyattdoc 2012-01-12 16:58:46
I don't agree with that at all. They are putting work into getting what they want just as you are, Remember I support the HNM system here. Dedication is all fine and good, but we don't let students into Harvard despite bad grades just because they study a lot.
did you really just compare a GAME to real life you have some serious issues
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By Chyula 2012-01-13 00:24:06
Bismarck.Josiahkf said: »I came up with an idea and I'm wondering if it'll solve some of this without SE having to concede their seemingly "remove mercing" stance Exclusive item drop rates start at 0.1 or 0.01% etc and every time you kill the NM, drop rates go up ~0.1% to a predefined cap for each drop. (Like 10% drop rate eventually) This way more killing does actually progress you in some form but everyone still has a chance to go 1/1 like SE wants apparently. And in game they could explain it with data like "And you can increase your spectral alignment to this NM with repeated engagements to help increase chance of rewards!"
No! too much coding, SE will slap you witha Balance sign.
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2595
By Bismarck.Elanabelle 2012-01-16 12:26:35
I suggested earlier that you could earn 1 point for that NM every time you complete it, and after get something rare your points reset back to 0.
I totally agree, and have suggested a similar system on the Official Forums.
If the game can tabulate your amount of Zeni based on how many stupid photographs you give to a NPC, and can tabulate your amount of Therion Ichor based on your victories in Einherjar ... then there is NO reason that S-E can't or shouldn't implement a similar system for Voidwatch loot.
"Void Points" (or whatever the hell you'd like to call them) could be awarded for each victory in Voidwatch. The more difficult VWNM's would award larger amounts of "Void Points". "Capping your lights" would award slightly more "Void Points". S-E could implement a daily cap on the number of times one can be awarded "Void Points" for each VWNM (this would prevent groups from spam-killing the really weak VWNM's for Points).
Then, the player exchanges his/her "Void Points" for items.
I do not see why this wouldn't work or shouldn't be implemented.
The current system for Voidwatch loot is absolute crap, and everyone knows it. It's really too bad, too, because (outside of Temporary Items abuse) many of the Voidwatch battles are challenging and can be fun.
| 01-10-2012 03:02 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep |  |
| Thanks so much for all the feedback regarding Voidwatch.
I have a couple responses to some of the suggestions and opinions that have been stated. (Sorry it’s a bit long)
Drop rates of equipment for each chapter
There are no drop rate differences for equipment in chapter 1, 2, or 3. Each has the same amount of rarity and there are no differences between chapters.
Bonuses for players who spawn the monster
It would be possible to look into this if other players who pay the costs received the same effects, for example, receiving the same benefits when using the maximum amount of cells. On the other hand, we are not thinking about offering special benefits just for spawning the monster. In extreme cases, only the player spawning the monster would consume Voidstones and continuous battles could take place which would eliminate the good point of Voidwatch where each member receives their own reward and would also develop long claim times.
Cruor needed for atmacite upgrades
For the amount of cruor needed to upgrade atmacites, the idea was not to acquire these beforehand in Abyssea, but to upgrade atmacites while receiving cruor as rewards for Voidwatch. In order to save cruor, it’s possible to increase the amount gained by using cells or participate in battles without spending Voidstones just for cruor rewards.
In regards to other feedback we have received, especially about the areas we plan to focus on to address, I would like to go over the planned adjustments.
Weaknesses and rewards
Since exploiting a monsters weakness is directly linked to the rewards, it seems like players are focusing on creating parties that can quickly defeat monsters whose weaknesses can be exploited easily. As we would like players to utilize weaknesses as an element of strategy, we would also like players to have fun on a larger scale, so we will be looking into making it so that the connection between exploiting weaknesses and the rewards received are not too strong.
Weakness revamps
In order to create battles that can be completed without relying on temporary items, we are planning to revamp weaknesses as well as adjust the distribution of temporary items.
Also, in regards to cases where the weakness is difficult or due to your setup you cannot exploit it even though you determined what it is, we are planning to perform appropriate adjustments. Though we have already received quite a bit of feedback on weakness, if there are any others you would like us to look into please submit your feedback.
Addition of option to destroy rewards
Currently, players need to receive all the rewards at once; however, since it is inconvenient when there is a rare item that you already possess and you are unable to receive the rewards, we will be making it possible to get rid of the item without obtaining it. We are planning to implement this during this week’s test server update.
Subsequent follow-ups
Depending on the route/monster (also depending on players), they are becoming split into popular/unpopular, so we will be continuing to find ways to make it so it will be easy for players that take on these routes later to gather party members.
Also for players that have already cleared these routes, there are already benefits for them to re-do them, such as being able to participate without spending Voidstones and receiving cruor/XP rewards; however, since we feel this isn’t enough, we will be looking into other benefits to participate in fights that have already been completed.
Finally, we plan on discussing topics in regards the loot system in the future, so please continue submitting your feedback. | |
| 01-16-2012 04:39 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep | |
| Hey everyone!
Thank you for all of your feedback.
I would like to answer some of the questions that have been raised in response to the planned adjustments that I announced last week, as well as provide more detailed information on the battle adjustments that will be made.
Now, I am sure that some players are worried that this content will become more difficult to complete or that it will become more difficult to obtain loot, but I would like to assure you that none of the planned adjustments will be disadvantageous for the players.
Freezing issue in certain zones
A lot of players have been reporting freezing issues with Voidwatch in Fort Karugo-Narugo (S). This issue is being addressed with the highest priority.
As a temporary fix, we plan on implementing a Voidwatch battle with the same content as Fort Karugo-Narugo (S) in a different area.
Battle adjustments
Quote: My opinion on Voidwatch is that it is content in which the player must proc weaknesses with the correct timing and use temporary items wisely.
That is exactly what our idea for Voidwatch was at the time of first implementation.
However, recently the issue of only tanks being able to get near the target due to powerful AoE spells has shifted the balance. As a result, players have become more dependent on temporary items and more often than not, players continually proc weaknesses in order to use temporary items. We agree with the players saying that “it’s ridiculous that one hit from an AoE spell kills me,” and this is the issue that we are placing a high priority on resolving.
As a future adjustment, we’re considering lowering the damage that non-targeted characters receive from AoE spells. We will re-evaluate the overall balance once we reduce the damage from AoE spells, but if further adjustments are necessary, we may look into the effects of weaknesses.
※With regard to battle balance, I would like to note that we do not assume that every player has the best armor, such as Aegis and Ochain, or Relic/Mythic/Empyrean Weapons. It is definitely advantageous to have the best gear, but we are making adjustments so that even players without the best gear are able to creatively finish all content.
The separation of exploiting weakness and loot
A specific adjustment we have planned is to set blue and red alignment at their maximum values at the beginning of the battle.
※It would be possible to raise these values even more through ascent items. As a result, players will not have to worry about exploiting weakness in order to obtain better loot. Our aim is for players to only have to consider exploiting weakness as part of their battle strategy. Also, this adjustment will address the difficulty of smaller parties obtaining loot. | |
| 01-18-2012 04:34 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep | |
| Howdy!
I would like to make an addition to a planned adjustment that was announced earlier.
The issue at hand is the highest priority issue that we would like to address first before we make any other adjustments. There are many other adjustments we would like to make, but if we make too many adjustments at once, the following issues may occur:
The balance is shifted too quickly, possibly making the game worse
It is difficult to see improvement because too many changes are made
An unexpected adverse effect occurs due to the changes overlapping
To avoid these problems, it would be best to plan adjustments in order based on priority and their effect.
In response to us making adjustments in stages, many of you may feel that we are not making enough adjustments, but we hope you understand that our plan is to continuously make adjustments.
Also, when leaving feedback I would like to ask that you provide detailed opinions with suggestions for improvement, rather than simply stating whether you like or dislike a proposed adjustment. This would be very helpful for us.
Now, I will address some feedback that has been submitted.
Quote: I personally like the separation of weaknesses and loot, but I feel like this leads to players simply switching to their strongest jobs to finish content.
In order to avoid content becoming monotonous, an idea we are looking into is not completely separating weakness and loot by increasing the maximum bonus attained through cells and other ascent items. As a result, if there are few players involved, using cells will replace having to proc weakness, and for larger parties, it would be possible to avoid paying the high cost for cells by procing weakness as usual.
We may discover some issues with the above proposal upon our extensive review, but we believe that if we completely separate weakness and loot, it is inevitable that players will lean toward using only their strongest jobs.
In order to allow creative freedom in battle, it is necessary to improve the effects of procing weakness, so that it is more enjoyable to use various tactics to proc weaknesses rather than resorting to using the strongest job available. This is a long term goal for us, so it is not possible to make this change all at once, but we will be taking steps one by one to achieve this goal.
Please let us know what you think. | |
| 01-23-2012 02:22 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep | |
| Greetings!
We will be implementing the below adjustments to Voidwatch during this week’s test server update.
Addition of same battle content as Route: Jeuno 2 - Fort Karugo-Narugo (S) to Beaucedine Glacier.
※Beaudedine Glacier has been added to the list of teleports offered by the Atmacite Refiner.
※The above addition is a provisional change.
We will continue to make adjustments as we see how the current AoE damage adjustments affect battles going forward, so please be sure to submit any feedback you have. | |
| 01-26-2012 01:43 AM | | Gildrein | | Community Rep |  |
| [dev1075] Voidwatch Adjustments
*The following content is in development. Specific details may differ from the release version.
The Jeuno II Voidwatch operation at Fort Karugo-Narugo (S) may also be undertaken at Beaucedine Glacier.
*Beaucedine Glacier will be added as a destination to Atmacite Refiner teleportation menus.
*This is a temporary measure.
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