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[Dev] Voidwatch: Response to Feedback
Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2012-01-12 14:01:28
this thread is getting rly boring to read, people posting the same but with different words, needs to be locked Or instead of saying it needs locked, you could post suggestions you think that would fix the system that haven't been said already.
Or you can stop reading it then.
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By Zeyphr 2012-01-12 14:10:16
When did i say i was in a shitty ls? I was talking the whole of VW and how using that system wouldn't be smart.
Your in a ls, why would you even want to lie to your fellow members?
And even if you did get a 3rd body to drop, who's to say that person should decide who gets the item? That defeats the purpose of having leaders of a ls, other than to gather and order people to do this/that. It would also defeat the purpose of a point system tons of ls's would use because, thats right, the player would choose who gets it.
That would also lead to favourtism towards certain members which isn't good.
And even with that you still have lots of problems because it wouldn't solve the crappy players getting good gear > players who deserve it because not everyoen will give the item to someone who deserves it.
Asura.Fondue
Server: Asura
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By Asura.Fondue 2012-01-12 14:11:08
theres been a lot of good ideas proposed but they already said they arent changing it lol thats why people hate voidwatch
VIP
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 14:11:27
this thread is getting rly boring to read, people posting the same but with different words, needs to be locked Or instead of saying it needs locked, you could post suggestions you think that would fix the system that haven't been said already.
Or you can stop reading it then. Why should I stop reading it lol? because you don't agree with me?
okay...
By Zeyphr 2012-01-12 14:12:29
this thread is getting rly boring to read, people posting the same but with different words, needs to be locked Or instead of saying it needs locked, you could post suggestions you think that would fix the system that haven't been said already.
Or you can stop reading it then. Why should I stop reading it lol? because you don't agree with me?
okay... I think he meant Latifah not you
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VIP
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 14:17:17
Idk
I think SE would implement making sure people who already have the item don't get it again. If they take that too seriously and make it so you don't get it... but don't move it to someone else's box... that's a different story.
Bismarck.Gaspee
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By Bismarck.Gaspee 2012-01-12 14:17:34
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Asura.Fondue
Server: Asura
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Posts: 2446
By Asura.Fondue 2012-01-12 14:18:48
Idk
I think SE would implement making sure people who already have the item don't get it again. If they take that too seriously and make it so you don't get it... but don't move it to someone else's box... that's a different story.
thats really not a big deal lol.. If there is no way to pass duplicates around it really doesnt matter what they do with those duplicates, hiding them from us isnt changing the fact the system is stupid
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 14:21:25
I personally suggested:
Making it so you can spawn a more difficult version with an item that drops of that NM, which would increase the drop rates of rare items. (like sea)
Making it so you earn a point after every battle, the more you have the more likely you are to see rare items. When you get rare items your points reset for that NM and other average/rare items like single metal plates reduce it by 3 or w/e.
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 14:23:37
Could even make it that instead of making a harder version you just get temp items restricted completely, or proc's don't terror the NM.
Asura.Fondue
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By Asura.Fondue 2012-01-12 14:25:31
I really dont see them doing anything to change it no matter what kind of feedback they recieve
Could even make it that instead of making a harder version you just get temp items restricted completely, or proc's don't terror the NM.
and that sounds horrible
Carbuncle.Crollion
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By Carbuncle.Crollion 2012-01-12 14:25:51
God I hate this iPhone and autocorrect bs but kal states a good idea there I think do it like Ichor or something but it's se why would they
By Latifah 2012-01-12 14:26:21
this thread is getting rly boring to read, people posting the same but with different words, needs to be locked Or instead of saying it needs locked, you could post suggestions you think that would fix the system that haven't been said already. i have nothing to say because i like the vw system a lot
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 14:27:12
I really dont see them doing anything to change it no matter what kind of feedback they recieve
Could even make it that instead of making a harder version you just get temp items restricted completely, or proc's don't terror the NM.
and that sounds horrible For a higher drop rate? That is what everyone is screaming for lol...
Asura.Tamoa
Server: Asura
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Posts: 1341
By Asura.Tamoa 2012-01-12 14:28:06
Idk
I think SE would implement making sure people who already have the item don't get it again. If they take that too seriously and make it so you don't get it... but don't move it to someone else's box... that's a different story.
It's not really any different from how it works currently - someone obtains their 2nd ra/ex body which is forced to disappear into the void, v/s system checks and finds that someone already have that ra/ex item, and it disappears into the void without loading in someone else's chest.
The fact that the same person can receive the same ultra-rare ra/ex item multiple times, is the single most annoying, frustrating and discouraging thing about voidwatch.
Personally I'm more in favour of an Einherjar-like ichor point system, where you know you will be rewarded in the end if you work hard enough.
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VIP
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 14:29:25
this thread is getting rly boring to read, people posting the same but with different words, needs to be locked Or instead of saying it needs locked, you could post suggestions you think that would fix the system that haven't been said already. i have nothing to say because i like the vw system a lot But that doesn't mean it's perfect. I love the VW system and think it is fine as it is, minor problems with it. I personally think we rely too much on temp items personally, but that's about it.
I think the system can be expanded on and enhanced to make it even more fun while giving players a better chance at getting what they want.
Asura.Fondue
Server: Asura
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Posts: 2446
By Asura.Fondue 2012-01-12 14:30:00
have you done any of these higher ones without fulltime fanatics? lol theyre already retardedly overpowered, unless brochain paladin is the only thing that was supposed to be anywhere near the monster at all times
just a shitty system I dont enjoy and its all they keep adding to /disappointed
have not met a single person lately that after doing a reasonable amount of voidwatch to get items they want say they like the system or participating in it
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Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2012-01-12 14:32:34
I wasnt talking about you Kalila.
By Latifah 2012-01-12 14:32:56
@Kalilla
i think voidwatch is way too easy to do, it's ridiculous how people spam ws's/gain tp like crazy in a few seconds with almost infinite mp on mages because the temp items replenishing, thats why ppl can do 100-200 runs in 2 or 3 days , and because of that.. ppl think they deserve gear with a quickness
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VIP
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 14:34:14
Idk
I think SE would implement making sure people who already have the item don't get it again. If they take that too seriously and make it so you don't get it... but don't move it to someone else's box... that's a different story.
It's not really any different from how it works currently - someone obtains their 2nd ra/ex body which is forced to disappear into the void, v/s system checks and finds that someone already have that ra/ex item, and it disappears into the void without loading in someone else's chest.
The fact that the same person can receive the same ultra-rare ra/ex item multiple times, is the single most annoying, frustrating and discouraging thing about voidwatch.
Personally I'm more in favour of an Einherjar-like ichor point system, where you know you will be rewarded in the end if you work hard enough. I would love an einherjar system myself, but it would have of been addded months ago. It's far too late in the system to just add a point system now I think, even though I'd like one msyelf.
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 14:38:54
@Kalilla
i think voidwatch is way too easy to do, it's ridiculous how people spam ws's/gain tp like crazy in a few seconds with almost infinite mp on mages because the temp items replenishing, thats why ppl can do 100-200 runs in 2 or 3 days , and because of that.. ppl think they deserve gear with a quickness Agree, think the temp item usage has gone out of control personally. Steal hate? Just pop fanatics and be safe until someone gets it off you.
Asura.Fondue
Server: Asura
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Posts: 2446
By Asura.Fondue 2012-01-12 14:39:23
@Kalilla
i think voidwatch is way too easy to do, it's ridiculous how people spam ws's/gain tp like crazy in a few seconds with almost infinite mp on mages because the temp items replenishing, thats why ppl can do 100-200 runs in 2 or 3 days , and because of that.. ppl think they deserve gear with a quickness
god forbid there be a fast paced active event in ffxi
Asura.Tamoa
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1341
By Asura.Tamoa 2012-01-12 14:40:27
@Kalilla
i actually think voidwatch is way too easy to do, it's ridiculous how people spam ws's/gain tp like crazy in a few seconds with almost infinite mp on mages because the temp items replenishing, thats why ppl can do 100-200 runs in 2 or 3 days , and because of that.. ppl think they deserve gear with a quickness
Exaggerate much?
And yes, I see why you like the system as it is by looking at your profile page. 1/10 toci's and 1/17 heka's or something? That's damn lucky, there are a LOT of people who are 0/100+ and not to mention 0/300+ on the body they want - while they watch a friend get the body for the 3rd time.
Sylph.Zohnax
Server: Sylph
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Posts: 248
By Sylph.Zohnax 2012-01-12 14:40:59
@Kalilla
i think voidwatch is way too easy to do, it's ridiculous how people spam ws's/gain tp like crazy in a few seconds with almost infinite mp on mages because the temp items replenishing, thats why ppl can do 100-200 runs in 2 or 3 days , and because of that.. ppl think they deserve gear with a quickness You only get how many stones stocked up? Then you have to start shelling out of pocket for them? At that point, you're essentially paying for logs, ores, and random stuff. So instead of earning anything, you're having to pay at that point for a kick in the teeth again and again and again.
Lakshmi.Greggles
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Posts: 728
By Lakshmi.Greggles 2012-01-12 14:42:15
I don't see how adding to pool would kill shout parties? It's not like everyone doesn't get to lot on something in the loot pool.
Quartermaster would be an issue, but I doubt that leaders would be willing to destroy their reputation by QMing something and risk not ever getting people to run other VWNMs with them.
VIP
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 14:45:17
I don't see how adding to pool would kill shout parties? It's not like everyone doesn't get to lot on something in the loot pool.
Quartermaster would be an issue, but I doubt that leaders would be willing to destroy their reputation by QMing something and risk not ever getting people to run other VWNMs with them. Just would give *** the ability to steal from others. You would hear people kicking others the first week it started.
And by steal I mean kick everyone.
By Latifah 2012-01-12 14:45:42
@Kalilla
i actually think voidwatch is way too easy to do, it's ridiculous how people spam ws's/gain tp like crazy in a few seconds with almost infinite mp on mages because the temp items replenishing, thats why ppl can do 100-200 runs in 2 or 3 days , and because of that.. ppl think they deserve gear with a quickness
Exaggerate much?
And yes, I see why you like the system as it is by looking at your profile page. 1/10 toci's and 1/17 heka's or something? That's damn lucky, there are a LOT of people who are 0/100+ and not to mention 0/300+ on the body they want - while they watch a friend get the body for the 3rd time. nah, im about 0/70+ on Ogier body and im not complaining, i dont think i deserve it yet because i did like 20 ig-alima runs in just one night
By Zeyphr 2012-01-12 14:46:04
I don't see how adding to pool would kill shout parties? It's not like everyone doesn't get to lot on something in the loot pool.
Quartermaster would be an issue, but I doubt that leaders would be willing to destroy their reputation by QMing something and risk not ever getting people to run other VWNMs with them.
The arguement that would bring up is mentioned a few pages back for awhile. Non deserving players that have no idea how to use the piece of gear could possibly, and will win the lot over someone who really needs the item.
Asura.Fondue
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2446
By Asura.Fondue 2012-01-12 14:47:15
I don't see how adding to pool would kill shout parties? It's not like everyone doesn't get to lot on something in the loot pool.
Quartermaster would be an issue, but I doubt that leaders would be willing to destroy their reputation by QMing something and risk not ever getting people to run other VWNMs with them. Just would give *** the ability to steal from others. You would hear people kicking others the first week it started.
And by steal I mean kick everyone.
form a party with the person you want to get the item and put it in the pool? lol not that complicated
or just not give a ***about a free body?
Lakshmi.Greggles
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 728
By Lakshmi.Greggles 2012-01-12 14:47:29
I don't see how adding to pool would kill shout parties? It's not like everyone doesn't get to lot on something in the loot pool.
Quartermaster would be an issue, but I doubt that leaders would be willing to destroy their reputation by QMing something and risk not ever getting people to run other VWNMs with them.
The arguement that would bring up is mentioned a few pages back for awhile. Non deserving players that have no idea how to use the piece of gear could possibly, and will win the lot over someone who really needs the item.
And....?
The person who is "gimp" and "non deserving" has a chance to get the item in their chest anyway. At least this way if someone got the got the item while having previously obtained it, it doesn't go to waste.
01-10-2012 03:02 PM | Camate | Community Rep |  |
| Thanks so much for all the feedback regarding Voidwatch.
I have a couple responses to some of the suggestions and opinions that have been stated. (Sorry it’s a bit long)
Drop rates of equipment for each chapter
There are no drop rate differences for equipment in chapter 1, 2, or 3. Each has the same amount of rarity and there are no differences between chapters.
Bonuses for players who spawn the monster
It would be possible to look into this if other players who pay the costs received the same effects, for example, receiving the same benefits when using the maximum amount of cells. On the other hand, we are not thinking about offering special benefits just for spawning the monster. In extreme cases, only the player spawning the monster would consume Voidstones and continuous battles could take place which would eliminate the good point of Voidwatch where each member receives their own reward and would also develop long claim times.
Cruor needed for atmacite upgrades
For the amount of cruor needed to upgrade atmacites, the idea was not to acquire these beforehand in Abyssea, but to upgrade atmacites while receiving cruor as rewards for Voidwatch. In order to save cruor, it’s possible to increase the amount gained by using cells or participate in battles without spending Voidstones just for cruor rewards.
In regards to other feedback we have received, especially about the areas we plan to focus on to address, I would like to go over the planned adjustments.
Weaknesses and rewards
Since exploiting a monsters weakness is directly linked to the rewards, it seems like players are focusing on creating parties that can quickly defeat monsters whose weaknesses can be exploited easily. As we would like players to utilize weaknesses as an element of strategy, we would also like players to have fun on a larger scale, so we will be looking into making it so that the connection between exploiting weaknesses and the rewards received are not too strong.
Weakness revamps
In order to create battles that can be completed without relying on temporary items, we are planning to revamp weaknesses as well as adjust the distribution of temporary items.
Also, in regards to cases where the weakness is difficult or due to your setup you cannot exploit it even though you determined what it is, we are planning to perform appropriate adjustments. Though we have already received quite a bit of feedback on weakness, if there are any others you would like us to look into please submit your feedback.
Addition of option to destroy rewards
Currently, players need to receive all the rewards at once; however, since it is inconvenient when there is a rare item that you already possess and you are unable to receive the rewards, we will be making it possible to get rid of the item without obtaining it. We are planning to implement this during this week’s test server update.
Subsequent follow-ups
Depending on the route/monster (also depending on players), they are becoming split into popular/unpopular, so we will be continuing to find ways to make it so it will be easy for players that take on these routes later to gather party members.
Also for players that have already cleared these routes, there are already benefits for them to re-do them, such as being able to participate without spending Voidstones and receiving cruor/XP rewards; however, since we feel this isn’t enough, we will be looking into other benefits to participate in fights that have already been completed.
Finally, we plan on discussing topics in regards the loot system in the future, so please continue submitting your feedback. | |
01-16-2012 04:39 PM | Camate | Community Rep |  |
| Hey everyone!
Thank you for all of your feedback.
I would like to answer some of the questions that have been raised in response to the planned adjustments that I announced last week, as well as provide more detailed information on the battle adjustments that will be made.
Now, I am sure that some players are worried that this content will become more difficult to complete or that it will become more difficult to obtain loot, but I would like to assure you that none of the planned adjustments will be disadvantageous for the players.
Freezing issue in certain zones
A lot of players have been reporting freezing issues with Voidwatch in Fort Karugo-Narugo (S). This issue is being addressed with the highest priority.
As a temporary fix, we plan on implementing a Voidwatch battle with the same content as Fort Karugo-Narugo (S) in a different area.
Battle adjustments
Quote: My opinion on Voidwatch is that it is content in which the player must proc weaknesses with the correct timing and use temporary items wisely.
That is exactly what our idea for Voidwatch was at the time of first implementation.
However, recently the issue of only tanks being able to get near the target due to powerful AoE spells has shifted the balance. As a result, players have become more dependent on temporary items and more often than not, players continually proc weaknesses in order to use temporary items. We agree with the players saying that “it’s ridiculous that one hit from an AoE spell kills me,” and this is the issue that we are placing a high priority on resolving.
As a future adjustment, we’re considering lowering the damage that non-targeted characters receive from AoE spells. We will re-evaluate the overall balance once we reduce the damage from AoE spells, but if further adjustments are necessary, we may look into the effects of weaknesses.
※With regard to battle balance, I would like to note that we do not assume that every player has the best armor, such as Aegis and Ochain, or Relic/Mythic/Empyrean Weapons. It is definitely advantageous to have the best gear, but we are making adjustments so that even players without the best gear are able to creatively finish all content.
The separation of exploiting weakness and loot
A specific adjustment we have planned is to set blue and red alignment at their maximum values at the beginning of the battle.
※It would be possible to raise these values even more through ascent items. As a result, players will not have to worry about exploiting weakness in order to obtain better loot. Our aim is for players to only have to consider exploiting weakness as part of their battle strategy. Also, this adjustment will address the difficulty of smaller parties obtaining loot. | |
01-18-2012 04:34 PM | Camate | Community Rep |  |
| Howdy!
I would like to make an addition to a planned adjustment that was announced earlier.
The issue at hand is the highest priority issue that we would like to address first before we make any other adjustments. There are many other adjustments we would like to make, but if we make too many adjustments at once, the following issues may occur:
The balance is shifted too quickly, possibly making the game worse
It is difficult to see improvement because too many changes are made
An unexpected adverse effect occurs due to the changes overlapping
To avoid these problems, it would be best to plan adjustments in order based on priority and their effect.
In response to us making adjustments in stages, many of you may feel that we are not making enough adjustments, but we hope you understand that our plan is to continuously make adjustments.
Also, when leaving feedback I would like to ask that you provide detailed opinions with suggestions for improvement, rather than simply stating whether you like or dislike a proposed adjustment. This would be very helpful for us.
Now, I will address some feedback that has been submitted.
Quote: I personally like the separation of weaknesses and loot, but I feel like this leads to players simply switching to their strongest jobs to finish content. We understand your concern that players will simply switch to their strongest jobs due to the removal of the necessity to proc weaknesses and we’re carefully planning to address this issue.
In order to avoid content becoming monotonous, an idea we are looking into is not completely separating weakness and loot by increasing the maximum bonus attained through cells and other ascent items. As a result, if there are few players involved, using cells will replace having to proc weakness, and for larger parties, it would be possible to avoid paying the high cost for cells by procing weakness as usual.
We may discover some issues with the above proposal upon our extensive review, but we believe that if we completely separate weakness and loot, it is inevitable that players will lean toward using only their strongest jobs.
In order to allow creative freedom in battle, it is necessary to improve the effects of procing weakness, so that it is more enjoyable to use various tactics to proc weaknesses rather than resorting to using the strongest job available. This is a long term goal for us, so it is not possible to make this change all at once, but we will be taking steps one by one to achieve this goal.
Please let us know what you think. | |
01-23-2012 02:22 PM | Camate | Community Rep |  |
| Greetings!
We will be implementing the below adjustments to Voidwatch during this week’s test server update.
Addition of same battle content as Route: Jeuno 2 - Fort Karugo-Narugo (S) to Beaucedine Glacier.
※Beaudedine Glacier has been added to the list of teleports offered by the Atmacite Refiner.
※The above addition is a provisional change.
We will continue to make adjustments as we see how the current AoE damage adjustments affect battles going forward, so please be sure to submit any feedback you have. | |
01-26-2012 01:43 AM | Gildrein | Community Rep |  |
| [dev1075] Voidwatch Adjustments
*The following content is in development. Specific details may differ from the release version.
The Jeuno II Voidwatch operation at Fort Karugo-Narugo (S) may also be undertaken at Beaucedine Glacier.
*Beaucedine Glacier will be added as a destination to Atmacite Refiner teleportation menus.
*This is a temporary measure.
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