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[Dev] Voidwatch: Response to Feedback
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 03:36:14
lol, gimplet
Bahamut.Gimpness
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By Bahamut.Gimpness 2012-01-12 03:36:56
he's mine. getchur own taru to hit on.
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By Caitsith.Fishforsale 2012-01-12 03:37:22
I have mine. >.>
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By Bahamut.Gimplet 2012-01-12 03:39:19
Caitsith.Fishforsale said: »I have mine. >.>
me > you
you must smell like fish.
but, the two of me are going to bed now D:< much later than I thought it was Q_Q like by 3 hours...
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By Caitsith.Fishforsale 2012-01-12 03:39:51
...................................................
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 03:43:49
Question: Why should someone get something over someone else, especially in voidwatch?
Serious question, what qualifies you to get something over someone else. You may know how to use it correctly, but would the increase in your damage be as great as it would be for them? I don't think it would, but that is just guess and speculation.
I've always wondered why people get angry at players who they consider bad unless they have some feelings against them personally, which is a whole different subject.
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 03:54:37
Question: Why should someone get something over someone else, especially in voidwatch?
Serious question, what qualifies you to get something over someone else. You may know how to use it correctly, but would the increase in your damage be as great as it would be for them? I don't think it would, but that is just guess and speculation.
I've always wondered why people get angry at players who they consider bad unless they have some feelings against them personally, which is a whole different subject.
The belief that skill should equate with gear and those unskilled should not be rewarded. I don't agree with that at all. They are putting work into getting what they want just as you are, and if they happen to get it the increase in their damage will be greater than it would be for a well geared player, as the difference in stats from before and after are less than it would be for a poorly geared player.
I'm not saying that we should just give all the good gear to poorly geared players, I'm just asking why you would get upset that they got it over you and even more upset that you consider them as a bad player. If they were apart of your team that you do things with regularly then wouldn't that help the team overall if their damage increased more than it would increase yours?
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By Asura.Arkanethered 2012-01-12 03:57:26
Question: Why should someone get something over someone else, especially in voidwatch?
Serious question, what qualifies you to get something over someone else. You may know how to use it correctly, but would the increase in your damage be as great as it would be for them? I don't think it would, but that is just guess and speculation.
I've always wondered why people get angry at players who they consider bad unless they have some feelings against them personally, which is a whole different subject.
The belief that skill should equate with gear and those unskilled should not be rewarded.
I don't think the unskilled should not be rewarded... But I do like the idea of a WoE type system where you accumulate points that increases your chances at a rare drop.
If I parse 20% of the damage and hit a few weakness procs, I think I should have a better shot at the HQ rare item than some guy who ran around in circles because he didn't know what to do.
[+]
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By Sylph.Kimble 2012-01-12 03:57:49
Question: Why should someone get something over someone else, especially in voidwatch?
Serious question, what qualifies you to get something over someone else. You may know how to use it correctly, but would the increase in your damage be as great as it would be for them? I don't think it would, but that is just guess and speculation.
I've always wondered why people get angry at players who they consider bad unless they have some feelings against them personally, which is a whole different subject.
The belief that skill should equate with gear and those unskilled should not be rewarded.
You live in some kinda utopia that never existed in FFXI then. People who spent the most amount of time in game got rewarded, not the most skilled.
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By Sylph.Kimble 2012-01-12 03:58:41
Asura.Arkanethered said: »Question: Why should someone get something over someone else, especially in voidwatch?
Serious question, what qualifies you to get something over someone else. You may know how to use it correctly, but would the increase in your damage be as great as it would be for them? I don't think it would, but that is just guess and speculation.
I've always wondered why people get angry at players who they consider bad unless they have some feelings against them personally, which is a whole different subject.
The belief that skill should equate with gear and those unskilled should not be rewarded.
I don't think the unskilled should not be rewarded... But I do like the idea of a WoE type system where you accumulate points that increases your chances at a rare drop.
If I parse 20% of the damage and hit a few weakness procs, I think I should have a better shot at the HQ rare item than some guy who ran around in circles because he didn't know what to do.
The problem with that is, you totally *** over your support jobs (BRD, WHMs, etc)
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 04:00:16
Asura.Arkanethered said: »Question: Why should someone get something over someone else, especially in voidwatch?
Serious question, what qualifies you to get something over someone else. You may know how to use it correctly, but would the increase in your damage be as great as it would be for them? I don't think it would, but that is just guess and speculation.
I've always wondered why people get angry at players who they consider bad unless they have some feelings against them personally, which is a whole different subject.
The belief that skill should equate with gear and those unskilled should not be rewarded.
I don't think the unskilled should not be rewarded... But I do like the idea of a WoE type system where you accumulate points that increases your chances at a rare drop.
If I parse 20% of the damage and hit a few weakness procs, I think I should have a better shot at the HQ rare item than some guy who ran around in circles because he didn't know what to do. Yea but... if you had good gear and a good weapon of course you are going to accumulate more points over someone else that doesn't.
If they are doing their job to the best of their ability and not hurting the group in any way, then why shouldn't they have just as much of an opportunity of getting it as you?
I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, just talking.
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 04:01:18
Asura.Arkanethered said: »Question: Why should someone get something over someone else, especially in voidwatch?
Serious question, what qualifies you to get something over someone else. You may know how to use it correctly, but would the increase in your damage be as great as it would be for them? I don't think it would, but that is just guess and speculation.
I've always wondered why people get angry at players who they consider bad unless they have some feelings against them personally, which is a whole different subject.
The belief that skill should equate with gear and those unskilled should not be rewarded.
I don't think the unskilled should not be rewarded... But I do like the idea of a WoE type system where you accumulate points that increases your chances at a rare drop.
If I parse 20% of the damage and hit a few weakness procs, I think I should have a better shot at the HQ rare item than some guy who ran around in circles because he didn't know what to do.
The problem with that is, you totally *** over your support jobs (BRD, WHMs, etc) Now actually WHM can get pretty high up, and after I figured out how the system worked I could easily claim first or at least the top 3, and I didn't have to do anything super special to do it either.
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By Asura.Arkanethered 2012-01-12 04:04:05
I'm not saying that my points should be placed in competition with someone. I said like the WoE system.. Not identical to it. Ranking the top 5 for boxes isn't fair imo.
I'm just saying that I think that someone who puts more into the fight should have a higher chance at obtaining a rare item. This would keep people interested and provide incentive for lesser skilled players to improve.
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 04:07:38
Asura.Arkanethered said: »I'm not saying that my points should be placed in competition with someone. I said like the WoE system.. Not identical to it. Ranking the top 5 for boxes isn't fair imo.
I'm just saying that I think that someone who puts more into the fight should have a higher chance at obtaining a rare item. This would keep people interested and provide incentive for lesser skilled players to improve. Still, depending on the system a job is going to get screwed either way.
As a whm I can't just go ws a monster (okay I can, and do when I'm bored, but only because I can pop a wing run in and run out). I can't melee, I normally don't enfeeble... much. I guess dia..
Also the tanks would have the upper hand no matter how you look at it, they cast magic, do dmg, and get dmg'ed constantly.
I wouldn't want to see a point system even if it didn't hurt you, because someone would gain more of an advantage over you just by what job they were asked to come as.
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By Sylph.Kimble 2012-01-12 04:10:26
numbers =/= skill.
So because people would rather do other content to get the same or better gear, you have no respect for them? Basically you are saying if someone choose to get their e body from Odin rather than camping against you for nidhogg, you have no respect for them?
You seem to really down play the amount of botting that went on in zerg when people on the inside said completely different.
And btw, I can't read something that isnt there. You said nothing about people who go on shout groups shouldnt get reward with gear.
All you said is you rather see no one get gear even if it meant you didn't get any yourself.
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By Asura.Arkanethered 2012-01-12 04:11:19
It would take some balance to make it work. I agree with you on that I would not want to see one job have an advantage.
I just think that the current system is obscene. It is fun, it is a time sink, but it is very frustrating... I just wish I had something more that I could do than cap lights and cross my fingers.
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 04:15:18
What about you gain a point for that NM, and they build up as you fight that NM more increasing the drop rate slightly each time you successfully complete it?
Not sure how I feel about that personally, but that would be fair for all jobs.
Edit: There would have to be a reset for points somehow though obviously, and possibly a cap. Maybe it gets reset after you get a rare item?
Or if you get a metal plate you get -3 points, a pouch is full reset regardless of whats inside, rare armor/weapons/w/e also reset it completely.
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By Sylph.Gredival 2012-01-12 04:16:59
I don't agree with that at all. They are putting work into getting what they want just as you are,
Remember I support the HNM system here. Dedication is all fine and good, but we don't let students into Harvard despite bad grades just because they study a lot.
Gear should be tierd according to difficulty and accessibility. Top line gear should be proportionately rare to its status. Coruscantis should go to the best THFs and DNCs, not anyone who sits and grinds enough Qilins.
Quote: I'm not saying that we should just give all the good gear to poorly geared players, I'm just asking why you would get upset that they got it over you and even more upset that you consider them as a bad player. If they were apart of your team that you do things with regularly then wouldn't that help the team overall if their damage increased more than it would increase yours?
Sure... in an LS setting, I have incentives for that. In the current metagame where everything is strangers in pick ups, there is absolutely no incentive for me to want someone getting gear above their ability.
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 04:22:10
I don't agree with that at all. They are putting work into getting what they want just as you are,
Remember I support the HNM system here. Dedication is all fine and good, but we don't let students into Harvard despite bad grades just because they study a lot.
Gear should be tierd according to difficulty and accessibility. Top line gear should be proportionately rare to its status. Coruscantis should go to the best THFs and DNCs, not anyone who sits and grinds enough Qilins. Even if you obtaining that rare piece of gear for 1 more attack and 2 str would help you less than if it went to someone else that would gain more from that piece of equipment?
That just feels wrong on so many levels. If you get it fine, but you shouldn't be hating on others just because they aren't skilled or geared as well as you.
Quote: I'm not saying that we should just give all the good gear to poorly geared players, I'm just asking why you would get upset that they got it over you and even more upset that you consider them as a bad player. If they were apart of your team that you do things with regularly then wouldn't that help the team overall if their damage increased more than it would increase yours?
Sure... in an LS setting, I have incentives for that. In the current metagame where everything is strangers in pick ups, there is absolutely no incentive for me to want someone getting gear above their ability. You say that, but I've seen/heard about it in so many other linkshells it makes me sick. Even if they aren't, they benefit from it far more than you would regardless of how much better you would use it over them.
It seems so selfish to me to feel any other way, I'm glad others get gear as it means the system is working.
This gives everyone the same chance of getting it regardless of what linkshell they are in, and that is what the game was missing almost since the beginning.
You might go 0/500, but others will get it.
01-10-2012 03:02 PM | Camate | Community Rep |  |
| Thanks so much for all the feedback regarding Voidwatch.
I have a couple responses to some of the suggestions and opinions that have been stated. (Sorry it’s a bit long)
Drop rates of equipment for each chapter
There are no drop rate differences for equipment in chapter 1, 2, or 3. Each has the same amount of rarity and there are no differences between chapters.
Bonuses for players who spawn the monster
It would be possible to look into this if other players who pay the costs received the same effects, for example, receiving the same benefits when using the maximum amount of cells. On the other hand, we are not thinking about offering special benefits just for spawning the monster. In extreme cases, only the player spawning the monster would consume Voidstones and continuous battles could take place which would eliminate the good point of Voidwatch where each member receives their own reward and would also develop long claim times.
Cruor needed for atmacite upgrades
For the amount of cruor needed to upgrade atmacites, the idea was not to acquire these beforehand in Abyssea, but to upgrade atmacites while receiving cruor as rewards for Voidwatch. In order to save cruor, it’s possible to increase the amount gained by using cells or participate in battles without spending Voidstones just for cruor rewards.
In regards to other feedback we have received, especially about the areas we plan to focus on to address, I would like to go over the planned adjustments.
Weaknesses and rewards
Since exploiting a monsters weakness is directly linked to the rewards, it seems like players are focusing on creating parties that can quickly defeat monsters whose weaknesses can be exploited easily. As we would like players to utilize weaknesses as an element of strategy, we would also like players to have fun on a larger scale, so we will be looking into making it so that the connection between exploiting weaknesses and the rewards received are not too strong.
Weakness revamps
In order to create battles that can be completed without relying on temporary items, we are planning to revamp weaknesses as well as adjust the distribution of temporary items.
Also, in regards to cases where the weakness is difficult or due to your setup you cannot exploit it even though you determined what it is, we are planning to perform appropriate adjustments. Though we have already received quite a bit of feedback on weakness, if there are any others you would like us to look into please submit your feedback.
Addition of option to destroy rewards
Currently, players need to receive all the rewards at once; however, since it is inconvenient when there is a rare item that you already possess and you are unable to receive the rewards, we will be making it possible to get rid of the item without obtaining it. We are planning to implement this during this week’s test server update.
Subsequent follow-ups
Depending on the route/monster (also depending on players), they are becoming split into popular/unpopular, so we will be continuing to find ways to make it so it will be easy for players that take on these routes later to gather party members.
Also for players that have already cleared these routes, there are already benefits for them to re-do them, such as being able to participate without spending Voidstones and receiving cruor/XP rewards; however, since we feel this isn’t enough, we will be looking into other benefits to participate in fights that have already been completed.
Finally, we plan on discussing topics in regards the loot system in the future, so please continue submitting your feedback. | |
01-16-2012 04:39 PM | Camate | Community Rep |  |
| Hey everyone!
Thank you for all of your feedback.
I would like to answer some of the questions that have been raised in response to the planned adjustments that I announced last week, as well as provide more detailed information on the battle adjustments that will be made.
Now, I am sure that some players are worried that this content will become more difficult to complete or that it will become more difficult to obtain loot, but I would like to assure you that none of the planned adjustments will be disadvantageous for the players.
Freezing issue in certain zones
A lot of players have been reporting freezing issues with Voidwatch in Fort Karugo-Narugo (S). This issue is being addressed with the highest priority.
As a temporary fix, we plan on implementing a Voidwatch battle with the same content as Fort Karugo-Narugo (S) in a different area.
Battle adjustments
Quote: My opinion on Voidwatch is that it is content in which the player must proc weaknesses with the correct timing and use temporary items wisely.
That is exactly what our idea for Voidwatch was at the time of first implementation.
However, recently the issue of only tanks being able to get near the target due to powerful AoE spells has shifted the balance. As a result, players have become more dependent on temporary items and more often than not, players continually proc weaknesses in order to use temporary items. We agree with the players saying that “it’s ridiculous that one hit from an AoE spell kills me,” and this is the issue that we are placing a high priority on resolving.
As a future adjustment, we’re considering lowering the damage that non-targeted characters receive from AoE spells. We will re-evaluate the overall balance once we reduce the damage from AoE spells, but if further adjustments are necessary, we may look into the effects of weaknesses.
※With regard to battle balance, I would like to note that we do not assume that every player has the best armor, such as Aegis and Ochain, or Relic/Mythic/Empyrean Weapons. It is definitely advantageous to have the best gear, but we are making adjustments so that even players without the best gear are able to creatively finish all content.
The separation of exploiting weakness and loot
A specific adjustment we have planned is to set blue and red alignment at their maximum values at the beginning of the battle.
※It would be possible to raise these values even more through ascent items. As a result, players will not have to worry about exploiting weakness in order to obtain better loot. Our aim is for players to only have to consider exploiting weakness as part of their battle strategy. Also, this adjustment will address the difficulty of smaller parties obtaining loot. | |
01-18-2012 04:34 PM | Camate | Community Rep |  |
| Howdy!
I would like to make an addition to a planned adjustment that was announced earlier.
The issue at hand is the highest priority issue that we would like to address first before we make any other adjustments. There are many other adjustments we would like to make, but if we make too many adjustments at once, the following issues may occur:
The balance is shifted too quickly, possibly making the game worse
It is difficult to see improvement because too many changes are made
An unexpected adverse effect occurs due to the changes overlapping
To avoid these problems, it would be best to plan adjustments in order based on priority and their effect.
In response to us making adjustments in stages, many of you may feel that we are not making enough adjustments, but we hope you understand that our plan is to continuously make adjustments.
Also, when leaving feedback I would like to ask that you provide detailed opinions with suggestions for improvement, rather than simply stating whether you like or dislike a proposed adjustment. This would be very helpful for us.
Now, I will address some feedback that has been submitted.
Quote: I personally like the separation of weaknesses and loot, but I feel like this leads to players simply switching to their strongest jobs to finish content. We understand your concern that players will simply switch to their strongest jobs due to the removal of the necessity to proc weaknesses and we’re carefully planning to address this issue.
In order to avoid content becoming monotonous, an idea we are looking into is not completely separating weakness and loot by increasing the maximum bonus attained through cells and other ascent items. As a result, if there are few players involved, using cells will replace having to proc weakness, and for larger parties, it would be possible to avoid paying the high cost for cells by procing weakness as usual.
We may discover some issues with the above proposal upon our extensive review, but we believe that if we completely separate weakness and loot, it is inevitable that players will lean toward using only their strongest jobs.
In order to allow creative freedom in battle, it is necessary to improve the effects of procing weakness, so that it is more enjoyable to use various tactics to proc weaknesses rather than resorting to using the strongest job available. This is a long term goal for us, so it is not possible to make this change all at once, but we will be taking steps one by one to achieve this goal.
Please let us know what you think. | |
01-23-2012 02:22 PM | Camate | Community Rep |  |
| Greetings!
We will be implementing the below adjustments to Voidwatch during this week’s test server update.
Addition of same battle content as Route: Jeuno 2 - Fort Karugo-Narugo (S) to Beaucedine Glacier.
※Beaudedine Glacier has been added to the list of teleports offered by the Atmacite Refiner.
※The above addition is a provisional change.
We will continue to make adjustments as we see how the current AoE damage adjustments affect battles going forward, so please be sure to submit any feedback you have. | |
01-26-2012 01:43 AM | Gildrein | Community Rep |  |
| [dev1075] Voidwatch Adjustments
*The following content is in development. Specific details may differ from the release version.
The Jeuno II Voidwatch operation at Fort Karugo-Narugo (S) may also be undertaken at Beaucedine Glacier.
*Beaucedine Glacier will be added as a destination to Atmacite Refiner teleportation menus.
*This is a temporary measure.
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