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[Dev] Voidwatch: Response to Feedback
 Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2012-01-12 02:25:40
Also, if this game has been ***to you since 2009 ... You *** and moan about abyssea and voidwatch so much yet here you are, still doing it. I guess you are hanging on to some hope that the game is going to regress 4 years just for you?
Do I have to repeat myself once again for you?
I have absolutely hated this game since Scars of Abyssea. But people who disliked HNMs stayed and played and whined until the game was changed for them. I am dedicated to doing the exact same thing.
I kept at Kings until I got what I wanted because I believe if you want gear, you go after it. You don't ask SE to gimp the game for you.
Oh ok, you are playing a game you hate, that hasn't been the same for you in 2+ years, hoping it will some how go back to what you want. Sounds like you could be doing better things with your time and doing something you actually enjoy.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-01-12 02:25:52
I don't think WotG was ever really meant to have true "end game" content. Even Sandworm and DI seemed a bit tacked on.
Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
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By Sylph.Kimble 2012-01-12 02:27:11
WOTG had hardly any content to it, and never really had an end game area (unless you count wotg? lol) How could something in the past have end game content? <.< That just seems strange to me.
I'm not even sure if that is suppose to be a serious statement or not, lol. What the *** does it being in the past have to do with "end game" content?
 Bahamut.Gimpness
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 550
By Bahamut.Gimpness 2012-01-12 02:27:49
If you include it, it was harder than all of Abyssea.
um... if you include brews, anything's technically harder than Abyssea. Excluding the few idiots that have to pop 12 of them to kill a Glavoid or a Rani. If people like that still even exist, I do hope they don't... but then again, if they can't do that I don't see them doing older content.
I never played when "old content" was *just* released. I think I started a couple months before level sync came out Q_Q, but yea... I could see it being hard. Just like when certain vnms *just* came out, they were still relatively hard. I remember the first day doing krabkatoa (was more of an accident than heeeeyy, let's kill this) and it one shotted everyone but a whm... Q_Q then i think venom shower spray got a nerf 2-3 hours later and we all /raged.
so if you aren't quite sure how to handle things, no strat's available to you (wiki and such), and you're doing something for the firs time... I can totally see it being hard.
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 02:28:22
Valefor.Prothescar said: »I don't think WotG was ever really meant to have true "end game" content. Even Sandworm and DI seemed a bit tacked on. For sure, they were simply for the "hard core" gamers.
Even though came the need of people making programs to do widescan for you and track when something spawns...
People just wanted things to themselves too much. It should have been something someone stumbles upon while traveling and their linkshell gathers to defeat it. An event that the average player has more of a chance to do, but of course the HNM linkshells had to monopolize it as well.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-01-12 02:28:53
WOTG had hardly any content to it, and never really had an end game area (unless you count wotg? lol) How could something in the past have end game content? <.< That just seems strange to me.
I'm not even sure if that is suppose to be a serious statement or not, lol. What the *** does it being in the past have to do with "end game" content?
Continuity.
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 378
By Sylph.Gredival 2012-01-12 02:29:55
Dark Ixion and Sandworm were extremely interesting, and more difficult, relative to previous HNMs.
I was actually part of the group that discovered the very first Doomvoid. We were killing for the title at the time.
I would argue that many people able to complete AF3 and Empyreans would not be able to do the same against Ixion and SW due to inability to position correctly, control hate, etc. plus crappy DPS without temp items plus a rage timer.
On Sylph, the few times we didn't claim Ixion (I think by the time we stopped, we had only missed like 50 Ixions out of 3 years) we usually had to wait an hour or more for the other group to kill or rage/wipe.
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Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
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By Sylph.Kimble 2012-01-12 02:30:15
Valefor.Prothescar said: »WOTG had hardly any content to it, and never really had an end game area (unless you count wotg? lol) How could something in the past have end game content? <.< That just seems strange to me.
I'm not even sure if that is suppose to be a serious statement or not, lol. What the *** does it being in the past have to do with "end game" content?
Continuity.
I would think ToAU relc coming from dynamis would throw any "Continuity" out the window.
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 02:30:16
Idk, I guess it's silly of me to try and make sense of something in a game like this.
Just feel that something in the past would not be end game content, but more of a discovery and adventure.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-01-12 02:31:05
Kinda sad, BST can solo DI now.
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 02:31:44
Saw that a ninja was able to at 85/90/95? not sure what level cap it was.
Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2012-01-12 02:31:59
Dark Ixion and Sandworm were extremely interesting, and more difficult, relative to previous HNMs.
I was actually part of the group that discovered the very first Doomvoid. We were killing for the title at the time.
I would argue that many people able to complete AF3 and Empyreans would not be able to do the same against Ixion and SW due to inability to position correctly, control hate, etc. plus crappy DPS without temp items plus a rage timer.
On Sylph, the few times we didn't claim Ixion (I think by the time we stopped, we had only missed like 50 Ixions out of 3 years) we usually had to wait an hour or more for the other group to kill or rage/wipe.
Bad players are bad players. Them having good gear has nothing to do with it. Im sure these people you waited to kill ixion for so long prob had very good gear as well.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-01-12 02:33:21
Valefor.Prothescar said: »WOTG had hardly any content to it, and never really had an end game area (unless you count wotg? lol) How could something in the past have end game content? <.< That just seems strange to me.
I'm not even sure if that is suppose to be a serious statement or not, lol. What the *** does it being in the past have to do with "end game" content?
Continuity.
I would think ToAU relc coming from dynamis would throw any "Continuity" out the window.
Apples, oranges. ToAU job relic coming out of Dynamis was relatively well patched in. The Empire of Aht Urghan still existed during the Crystal War, and agents of the Empire were around as well. All you need is one Hydra Corp member having a bad dream about a pirate, blue mage, or a galka playing with dolls and...
Walk of Echoes could have technically been an end game zone, but why bother? I don't see the issue with what it is now, particularly with all of the adjustments made and future adjustments that are being made.
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 02:33:29
Random thought
But why the *** do NM's not have their own music?...
Does that make sense to anyone else?
By Latifah 2012-01-12 02:33:52
ya, all thunder attacks only does 100+ dmg or something to lvl 99 pets , very easy solo with pdt gear
Bahamut.Gimpness
Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Gimpness 2012-01-12 02:34:36
Random thought
But why the *** do NM's not have their own music?...
Does that make sense to anyone else?
spoonybard go!
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 02:35:01
Random thought
But why the *** do NM's not have their own music?...
Does that make sense to anyone else?
spoonybard go! I know right!
I just don't get it, why didn't SE do that???
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-01-12 02:35:10
Random thought
But why the *** do NM's not have their own music?...
Does that make sense to anyone else? Random thought
But why the *** do NM's not have their own music?...
Does that make sense to anyone else?
spoonybard go! I know right!
I just don't get it, why didn't SE do that???
PS2 limitations
Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2012-01-12 02:35:29
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Valefor.Prothescar said: »WOTG had hardly any content to it, and never really had an end game area (unless you count wotg? lol) How could something in the past have end game content? <.< That just seems strange to me.
I'm not even sure if that is suppose to be a serious statement or not, lol. What the *** does it being in the past have to do with "end game" content?
Continuity.
I would think ToAU relc coming from dynamis would throw any "Continuity" out the window.
Apples, oranges. ToAU job relic coming out of Dynamis was relatively well patched in. The Empire of Aht Urghan still existed during the Crystal War, and agents of the Empire were around as well. Walk of Echoes could have technically been an end game zone, but why bother? I don't see the issue with what it is now, particularly with all of the adjustments made and future adjustments that are being made.
You're reaching to make it fit, considering the reason it took so long to get relic was because SE said they had to find a way to make it work story wise coming from an event, then decicded to just say *** it and throw it in dynamis (they had thought about adding it to einherjar but decided it was a bad idea because that means 3 jobs would get relic from that, while other the other 13 jobs wouldnt get JSE from it)
Bahamut.Gimpness
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By Bahamut.Gimpness 2012-01-12 02:35:56
Valefor.Prothescar said: »PS2 limitations
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 02:36:04
No way lololol
They can change music multiple times during a cutscene. A NM would be no different really and just blows my mind that they didn't take advantage of that to enhance game play.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-01-12 02:36:23
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Valefor.Prothescar said: »WOTG had hardly any content to it, and never really had an end game area (unless you count wotg? lol) How could something in the past have end game content? <.< That just seems strange to me.
I'm not even sure if that is suppose to be a serious statement or not, lol. What the *** does it being in the past have to do with "end game" content?
Continuity.
I would think ToAU relc coming from dynamis would throw any "Continuity" out the window.
Apples, oranges. ToAU job relic coming out of Dynamis was relatively well patched in. The Empire of Aht Urghan still existed during the Crystal War, and agents of the Empire were around as well. Walk of Echoes could have technically been an end game zone, but why bother? I don't see the issue with what it is now, particularly with all of the adjustments made and future adjustments that are being made.
You're reaching to make it fit, considering the reason it took so long to get relic was because SE said they had to find a way to make it work story wise coming from an event, then decicded to just say *** it and throw it in dynamis (they had thought about adding it to einherjar but decided it was a bad idea because that means 3 jobs would get relic from that, while other the other 13 jobs wouldnt get JSE from it)
Aaaaand what they did was, they made it fit story wise. What's the problem? To me it seems like you're trying to reach too hard to make it not fit.
Leaving for real this time, for real. Enjoy the talk of dynamis and HNMs and galkas and dolls or whatever the ***.
Bahamut.Gimpness
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 550
By Bahamut.Gimpness 2012-01-12 02:37:14
No way lololol
They can change music multiple times during a cutscene. A NM would be no different really and just blows my mind that they didn't take advantage of that to enhance game play.
idk, it's not like i care. I bump my wu tang while i play xi >:
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 02:37:20
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Valefor.Prothescar said: »WOTG had hardly any content to it, and never really had an end game area (unless you count wotg? lol) How could something in the past have end game content? <.< That just seems strange to me.
I'm not even sure if that is suppose to be a serious statement or not, lol. What the *** does it being in the past have to do with "end game" content?
Continuity.
I would think ToAU relc coming from dynamis would throw any "Continuity" out the window.
Apples, oranges. ToAU job relic coming out of Dynamis was relatively well patched in. The Empire of Aht Urghan still existed during the Crystal War, and agents of the Empire were around as well. Walk of Echoes could have technically been an end game zone, but why bother? I don't see the issue with what it is now, particularly with all of the adjustments made and future adjustments that are being made.
You're reaching to make it fit, considering the reason it took so long to get relic was because SE said they had to find a way to make it work story wise coming from an event, then decicded to just say *** it and throw it in dynamis (they had thought about adding it to einherjar but decided it was a bad idea because that means 3 jobs would get relic from that, while other the other 13 jobs wouldnt get JSE from it) funny that you mention that, because the NPC that refines ??? items mentions it could possible be a relic.
Bahamut.Gimpness
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 550
By Bahamut.Gimpness 2012-01-12 02:37:45
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Valefor.Prothescar said: »Valefor.Prothescar said: »WOTG had hardly any content to it, and never really had an end game area (unless you count wotg? lol) How could something in the past have end game content? <.< That just seems strange to me.
I'm not even sure if that is suppose to be a serious statement or not, lol. What the *** does it being in the past have to do with "end game" content?
Continuity.
I would think ToAU relc coming from dynamis would throw any "Continuity" out the window.
Apples, oranges. ToAU job relic coming out of Dynamis was relatively well patched in. The Empire of Aht Urghan still existed during the Crystal War, and agents of the Empire were around as well. Walk of Echoes could have technically been an end game zone, but why bother? I don't see the issue with what it is now, particularly with all of the adjustments made and future adjustments that are being made.
You're reaching to make it fit, considering the reason it took so long to get relic was because SE said they had to find a way to make it work story wise coming from an event, then decicded to just say *** it and throw it in dynamis (they had thought about adding it to einherjar but decided it was a bad idea because that means 3 jobs would get relic from that, while other the other 13 jobs wouldnt get JSE from it)
Aaaaand what they did was, they made it fit story wise. What's the problem? To me it seems like you're trying to reach too hard to make it not fit.
WHO CARES DDDD::
Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
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Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2012-01-12 02:37:50
how exactly, did they make it fit story wise? lol they never gave a reason why taou relic came form dynamis.
Bahamut.Gimpness
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 550
By Bahamut.Gimpness 2012-01-12 02:38:56
how exactly, did they make it fit story wise? lol they never gave a reason why taou relic came form dynamis. 
By Chyula 2012-01-12 02:48:03
I want more challenge
I want rare NM and drops treasure in pool
I want a big LS
I want more slaves
I want competitions while campping.
I want 200-300 ppl in cluster *** area to watch me kill an NM.
I want that newest 1% drop epeen sing attached on my forehead.
I want you all to bend over and respect me like a god in a MMO because my gears said so!
I want to live in the memory lane and refuse a change.
Add all these ***up and what we got here? over half the selfish ppl in this thread.
and what I want? I want this thread stop derailing and ppl actually bring up discussion with idea of how to improve VW so everyone can get some some ***out of it and not just some random guy that tag along and got the drop before the one who is on his/her 100th or 200th or even 300th fight.
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-12 02:49:32
I want more challenge
I want rare NM and drops treasure in pool
I want a big LS
I want more slaves
I want competitions while campping.
I want 200-300 ppl in cluster *** area to watch me kill an NM.
I want that newest 1% drop epeen sing attached on my forehead.
I want you all to bend over and respect me like a god in a MMO because my gears said so!
I want to live in the memory lane and refuse a change.
Add all these ***up and what we got here? over half the selfish ppl in this thread.
and what I want? I want this thread stop derailing and ppl actually bring up discussion with idea of how to improve VW so everyone can get some some ***out of it and not just some random guy that tag along and got the drop before the one who is on his/her 100th or 200th or even 300th fight. No one has said ANY of that ***, you're the one derailing it lol...
HNM was a failure of a system.
By Chyula 2012-01-12 02:57:02
They don't say it directly, the tone of most ppl's response point directly to all these point I make, and yourself are in the category. So why you wrote so many page in nothing relating to the thread?, the only suggestion I read from you regarding to VW is making the game check if you have the rare/ex item or not then get send to a differen't person if you have it. I don't see this ***any different than moving it to pool, instead of player hit random but the game does it for everyone.
| 01-10-2012 03:02 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep |  |
| Thanks so much for all the feedback regarding Voidwatch.
I have a couple responses to some of the suggestions and opinions that have been stated. (Sorry it’s a bit long)
Drop rates of equipment for each chapter
There are no drop rate differences for equipment in chapter 1, 2, or 3. Each has the same amount of rarity and there are no differences between chapters.
Bonuses for players who spawn the monster
It would be possible to look into this if other players who pay the costs received the same effects, for example, receiving the same benefits when using the maximum amount of cells. On the other hand, we are not thinking about offering special benefits just for spawning the monster. In extreme cases, only the player spawning the monster would consume Voidstones and continuous battles could take place which would eliminate the good point of Voidwatch where each member receives their own reward and would also develop long claim times.
Cruor needed for atmacite upgrades
For the amount of cruor needed to upgrade atmacites, the idea was not to acquire these beforehand in Abyssea, but to upgrade atmacites while receiving cruor as rewards for Voidwatch. In order to save cruor, it’s possible to increase the amount gained by using cells or participate in battles without spending Voidstones just for cruor rewards.
In regards to other feedback we have received, especially about the areas we plan to focus on to address, I would like to go over the planned adjustments.
Weaknesses and rewards
Since exploiting a monsters weakness is directly linked to the rewards, it seems like players are focusing on creating parties that can quickly defeat monsters whose weaknesses can be exploited easily. As we would like players to utilize weaknesses as an element of strategy, we would also like players to have fun on a larger scale, so we will be looking into making it so that the connection between exploiting weaknesses and the rewards received are not too strong.
Weakness revamps
In order to create battles that can be completed without relying on temporary items, we are planning to revamp weaknesses as well as adjust the distribution of temporary items.
Also, in regards to cases where the weakness is difficult or due to your setup you cannot exploit it even though you determined what it is, we are planning to perform appropriate adjustments. Though we have already received quite a bit of feedback on weakness, if there are any others you would like us to look into please submit your feedback.
Addition of option to destroy rewards
Currently, players need to receive all the rewards at once; however, since it is inconvenient when there is a rare item that you already possess and you are unable to receive the rewards, we will be making it possible to get rid of the item without obtaining it. We are planning to implement this during this week’s test server update.
Subsequent follow-ups
Depending on the route/monster (also depending on players), they are becoming split into popular/unpopular, so we will be continuing to find ways to make it so it will be easy for players that take on these routes later to gather party members.
Also for players that have already cleared these routes, there are already benefits for them to re-do them, such as being able to participate without spending Voidstones and receiving cruor/XP rewards; however, since we feel this isn’t enough, we will be looking into other benefits to participate in fights that have already been completed.
Finally, we plan on discussing topics in regards the loot system in the future, so please continue submitting your feedback. | |
| 01-16-2012 04:39 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep | |
| Hey everyone!
Thank you for all of your feedback.
I would like to answer some of the questions that have been raised in response to the planned adjustments that I announced last week, as well as provide more detailed information on the battle adjustments that will be made.
Now, I am sure that some players are worried that this content will become more difficult to complete or that it will become more difficult to obtain loot, but I would like to assure you that none of the planned adjustments will be disadvantageous for the players.
Freezing issue in certain zones
A lot of players have been reporting freezing issues with Voidwatch in Fort Karugo-Narugo (S). This issue is being addressed with the highest priority.
As a temporary fix, we plan on implementing a Voidwatch battle with the same content as Fort Karugo-Narugo (S) in a different area.
Battle adjustments
Quote: My opinion on Voidwatch is that it is content in which the player must proc weaknesses with the correct timing and use temporary items wisely.
That is exactly what our idea for Voidwatch was at the time of first implementation.
However, recently the issue of only tanks being able to get near the target due to powerful AoE spells has shifted the balance. As a result, players have become more dependent on temporary items and more often than not, players continually proc weaknesses in order to use temporary items. We agree with the players saying that “it’s ridiculous that one hit from an AoE spell kills me,” and this is the issue that we are placing a high priority on resolving.
As a future adjustment, we’re considering lowering the damage that non-targeted characters receive from AoE spells. We will re-evaluate the overall balance once we reduce the damage from AoE spells, but if further adjustments are necessary, we may look into the effects of weaknesses.
※With regard to battle balance, I would like to note that we do not assume that every player has the best armor, such as Aegis and Ochain, or Relic/Mythic/Empyrean Weapons. It is definitely advantageous to have the best gear, but we are making adjustments so that even players without the best gear are able to creatively finish all content.
The separation of exploiting weakness and loot
A specific adjustment we have planned is to set blue and red alignment at their maximum values at the beginning of the battle.
※It would be possible to raise these values even more through ascent items. As a result, players will not have to worry about exploiting weakness in order to obtain better loot. Our aim is for players to only have to consider exploiting weakness as part of their battle strategy. Also, this adjustment will address the difficulty of smaller parties obtaining loot. | |
| 01-18-2012 04:34 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep | |
| Howdy!
I would like to make an addition to a planned adjustment that was announced earlier.
The issue at hand is the highest priority issue that we would like to address first before we make any other adjustments. There are many other adjustments we would like to make, but if we make too many adjustments at once, the following issues may occur:
The balance is shifted too quickly, possibly making the game worse
It is difficult to see improvement because too many changes are made
An unexpected adverse effect occurs due to the changes overlapping
To avoid these problems, it would be best to plan adjustments in order based on priority and their effect.
In response to us making adjustments in stages, many of you may feel that we are not making enough adjustments, but we hope you understand that our plan is to continuously make adjustments.
Also, when leaving feedback I would like to ask that you provide detailed opinions with suggestions for improvement, rather than simply stating whether you like or dislike a proposed adjustment. This would be very helpful for us.
Now, I will address some feedback that has been submitted.
Quote: I personally like the separation of weaknesses and loot, but I feel like this leads to players simply switching to their strongest jobs to finish content.
In order to avoid content becoming monotonous, an idea we are looking into is not completely separating weakness and loot by increasing the maximum bonus attained through cells and other ascent items. As a result, if there are few players involved, using cells will replace having to proc weakness, and for larger parties, it would be possible to avoid paying the high cost for cells by procing weakness as usual.
We may discover some issues with the above proposal upon our extensive review, but we believe that if we completely separate weakness and loot, it is inevitable that players will lean toward using only their strongest jobs.
In order to allow creative freedom in battle, it is necessary to improve the effects of procing weakness, so that it is more enjoyable to use various tactics to proc weaknesses rather than resorting to using the strongest job available. This is a long term goal for us, so it is not possible to make this change all at once, but we will be taking steps one by one to achieve this goal.
Please let us know what you think. | |
| 01-23-2012 02:22 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep | |
| Greetings!
We will be implementing the below adjustments to Voidwatch during this week’s test server update.
Addition of same battle content as Route: Jeuno 2 - Fort Karugo-Narugo (S) to Beaucedine Glacier.
※Beaudedine Glacier has been added to the list of teleports offered by the Atmacite Refiner.
※The above addition is a provisional change.
We will continue to make adjustments as we see how the current AoE damage adjustments affect battles going forward, so please be sure to submit any feedback you have. | |
| 01-26-2012 01:43 AM | | Gildrein | | Community Rep |  |
| [dev1075] Voidwatch Adjustments
*The following content is in development. Specific details may differ from the release version.
The Jeuno II Voidwatch operation at Fort Karugo-Narugo (S) may also be undertaken at Beaucedine Glacier.
*Beaucedine Glacier will be added as a destination to Atmacite Refiner teleportation menus.
*This is a temporary measure.
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