I honestly wish people who didn't enjoy new content and talk about quitting actually did it.
If you don't like it, stop paying. Seriously... If there are all these people who absolutely hate VW as much as you then why give SE your money?
By not playing and keep paying your just putting less strain on the servers while paying them just as much.
If you're correct, and so many people hate VW to the point that they will quit, then SE will introduce content to bring back their revenue. If you keep playing and paying them they aren't going to listen to you.
If you quit and they still do the content you hate, then you are obviously not the type of player to play this game.
[Dev] Voidwatch: Response To Feedback
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[Dev] Voidwatch: Response to Feedback
Odin.Sawtelle said: » unless you were in a really bad shell, after enough camping you would get your item. If you were in a HNM shell that couldn't reliably claim nidhogg to keep the list of gear moving, you were in a bad shell. Valefor.Prothescar said: » Asking for robust and obscene amounts of new material in a game as old as FFXI, which is known to have limited resources for whatever reason or another, it an effort in futility. Instead of complaining about the one event that you don't feel like doing, go do the other 8+ events within the game that you clearly had no problem playing around in, or else you wouldn't be here right now. Seriously, while there's little to no guarantee that it will ever be changed, the Voidwatch loot system only needs one or two simple refinements to be "acceptable" to the people that seem to be in an absolute tizzy over it. Show me an MMO that fixes things as quickly as you want them fixed. It doesn't happen. So players can't expect anything but ***-tier content is what you're saying? WoW has been spanking SEs *** on every conceivable level since release even though that game itself has serious flaws. The horrible Chuck Norris ad that makes me cringe so hard shows just how far apart a company like Blizzard is from Square-Enix with regards to responsiveness. SE? The only thing that has advertised this game were cameos in Dissidia and the collapse of FFXIV. Even with your assumption there is no reason for Walk of Echoes to be as worthless as it is, no reason for Voidwatch to not have an 'add to pool' or point system and no reason for SE to ignore customers. It just doesn't make sense from a financial perspective to batter your players here when you want them ideally playing this AND XIV v.2. Then again this is SE and the only thing that seems to make waves are catastrophic disasters. Odin.Sawtelle said: » Ragnarok.Kongming said: » No. There was never a guarantee you'd even be able to pull it, let alone get the drop, and finally have everyone agree you should get it. You might be able to "guarantee" the last one but how meaningless is that if you can't even satisfy the first one but once a month? unless you were in a really bad shell, after enough camping you would get your item. If you were in a HNM shell that couldn't reliably claim nidhogg to keep the list of gear moving, you were in a bad shell. If you were in a shell that couldn't reliably claim nidhogg to have the list of gear moving or had a ls leader that didn't follow a logical loot distribution system, the issue was with the ls, not the actual HNM system. The fact is there existed at least one effective model used by many good shells that lead to a direct correlation between effort and reward. No such system can be made for voidwatch.
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Valefor.Prothescar said: » Asking for robust and obscene amounts of new material in a game as old as FFXI, which is known to have limited resources for whatever reason or another, it an effort in futility. Instead of complaining about the one event that you don't feel like doing, go do the other 8+ events within the game that you clearly had no problem playing around in, or else you wouldn't be here right now. Seriously, while there's little to no guarantee that it will ever be changed, the Voidwatch loot system only needs one or two simple refinements to be "acceptable" to the people that seem to be in an absolute tizzy over it. Show me an MMO that fixes things as quickly as you want them fixed. It doesn't happen. There's simply too many people to cater to with too divergent of interests. What you consider to be the "majority" may not be the majority at all; in fact, just on this forum in this thread alone there are those in both corners of the ring. You almost caught me with your ninja edit (jerk>.>). This is basically what I have been doing for the last 4 months, simply trying to pick up (old) pieces of gear that I never got (either because I didn't do that event, or abyssea happened and that event died in my old LS) and augment them so they would be relevant to today. Current project is Nhands, and its being rather stubborn. That said, this is where not being an 8-10 year veteran works in my favor. I haven't been playing long enough to have done everything pre-abyssea. I can understand why those longtime players are bored/not happy with VW, but hey, Nyzul is right aroung the corner. I'm really looking forward to that, I'm sure there will still be people who complain, but uh, o well? This is a 10 year old game with a successor trying to take over, if revamped content isn't good enough for you, you just need to leave not only the game, but the forums as well. Valefor.Prothescar said: » Asking for robust and obscene amounts of new material in a game as old as FFXI, which is known to have limited resources for whatever reason or another, it an effort in futility. This was exactly the reason why I knew FFXI couldn't shift from the model at 75 to the Abyssea model with plentiful gear. It just can't churn out content necessary to keep up with player completion. But Voidwatch handles rarity in a terrible way. What FFXI needs is a reversion to 75 era of play with top-line gear being extremely rare, but that rarity being determined by finite supply vs. drop rates (i.e. competitive world spawns). Side content that is more accessible should have gear with value adjusted to represent the more open accessibility and/or lower skill barriers. Quote: Seriously, while there's little to no guarantee that it will ever be changed, the Voidwatch loot system only needs one or two simple refinements to be "acceptable" to the people that seem to be in an absolute tizzy over it. Show me an MMO that fixes things as quickly as you want them fixed. It doesn't happen. There's simply too many people to cater to with too divergent of interests. What you consider to be the "majority" may not be the majority at all; in fact, just on this forum in this thread alone there are those in both corners of the ring. How about screw what the majority thinks because the majority will only appreciate a system based on the end results for them. As I've said before, the two tests for good reception are "Is it easy enough for me to do?" and "Can I easily get whatever the hell I want?" The majority will never like a system where there is top-line gear with significant skill barriers. But that's what good game design is about, proportional rewards to skill and effort/dedication. Siren.Kalilla said: » I honestly wish people who didn't enjoy new content and talk about quitting actually did it. If you don't like it, stop paying. Seriously... If there are all these people who absolutely hate VW as much as you then why give SE your money? By not playing and keep paying your just putting less strain on the servers while paying them just as much. People who hated HNMs and bitched enough to ruin the game didn't quit, neither will I. I am personally committed to bitching as much as necessary to prove what flaws exist in post-75 content that would be fixed by reverting to 75-era content.
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » Valefor.Prothescar said: » Asking for robust and obscene amounts of new material in a game as old as FFXI, which is known to have limited resources for whatever reason or another, it an effort in futility. Instead of complaining about the one event that you don't feel like doing, go do the other 8+ events within the game that you clearly had no problem playing around in, or else you wouldn't be here right now. Seriously, while there's little to no guarantee that it will ever be changed, the Voidwatch loot system only needs one or two simple refinements to be "acceptable" to the people that seem to be in an absolute tizzy over it. Show me an MMO that fixes things as quickly as you want them fixed. It doesn't happen. So players can't expect anything but ***-tier content is what you're saying? WoW has been spanking SEs *** on every conceivable level since release even though that game itself has serious flaws. The horrible Chuck Norris ad that makes me cringe so hard shows just how far apart a company like Blizzard is from Square-Enix with regards to responsiveness. SE? The only thing that has advertised this game were cameos in Dissidia and the collapse of FFXIV. Even with your assumption there is no reason for Walk of Echoes to be as worthless as it is, no reason for Voidwatch to not have an 'add to pool' or point system and no reason for SE to ignore customers. It just doesn't make sense from a financial perspective to batter your players here when you want them ideally playing this AND XIV v.2. Then again this is SE and the only thing that seems to make waves are catastrophic disasters. Like others, you're making it out to be far worse than it actually is. Voidwatch isn't the devil incarnate of MMOs, the fights are more engaging than any one of the NMs in Abyssea, which is still for some reason being praised as the saving grace and bestest thing in FFXI evar. The loot distribution is the only issue. Period. It is an issue that can be fixed, and only time will tell if it will be. Until then, I suggest you stop paying for something you quite clearly have no interest in and have such an utter contempt for. Also lol@ Blizzard kicking SE's *** on every level. You've clearly not played WoW all that much. if FFXI had the advertisement that WoW did, it would likely be much bigger than it is today, and I'd wager that those extra funds would have probably made some changes in FFXI's histroy. Gameplay wise, WoW is by no means kicking XI's *** on "every conceivable level". It's a game that's reached out and been more fitting to a wider range of audience, easier to access while still maintaining a "hardcore" side to it, however it does not excel at any of it. FFXI was not built to cater to casual gamers. Shiva.Viciousss said: » Valefor.Prothescar said: » Asking for robust and obscene amounts of new material in a game as old as FFXI, which is known to have limited resources for whatever reason or another, it an effort in futility. Instead of complaining about the one event that you don't feel like doing, go do the other 8+ events within the game that you clearly had no problem playing around in, or else you wouldn't be here right now. Seriously, while there's little to no guarantee that it will ever be changed, the Voidwatch loot system only needs one or two simple refinements to be "acceptable" to the people that seem to be in an absolute tizzy over it. Show me an MMO that fixes things as quickly as you want them fixed. It doesn't happen. There's simply too many people to cater to with too divergent of interests. What you consider to be the "majority" may not be the majority at all; in fact, just on this forum in this thread alone there are those in both corners of the ring. You almost caught me with your ninja edit (jerk>.>). This is basically what I have been doing for the last 4 months, simply trying to pick up (old) pieces of gear that I never got (either because I didn't do that event, or abyssea happened and that event died in my old LS) and augment them so they would be relevant to today. Current project is Nhands, and its being rather stubborn. That said, this is where not being an 8-10 year veteran works in my favor. I haven't been playing long enough to have done everything pre-abyssea. I can understand why those longtime players are bored/not happy with VW, but hey, Nyzul is right aroung the corner. I'm really looking forward to that, I'm sure there will still be people who complain, but uh, o well? This is a 10 year old game with a successor trying to take over, if revamped content isn't good enough for you, you just need to leave not only the game, but the forums as well. Indeed, there's a point in every game's lifespan where the content will all be completed by most players that have been playing for a very long time, at least the content that they care to complete. When a game matures to this point, it's difficult to balance maintaining a profit and pushing out as much content as possible. A game like FFXI, as old and dated as its model is, which has had a rather stagnant development cycle, is unreasonable to expect new systems in place every 2-3 months from. Leave that to the new games with fresh development teams of hundreds of people working on them and millions of people feeding funds every month. Take FFXI for what it is and what it's been for 9 years. Asking for it to change now, at this point in its lifespan, is not a reasonable request.
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Sylph.Gredival said: » People who hated HNMs and bitched enough to ruin the game didn't quit, neither will I. I am personally committed to bitching as much as necessary. I didn't haven anything against HNMs myself, even tho I certainly wasn't impressed with the whole bot-claiming system. Like I said earlier I didn't have a need for them, if I was going to *** about something it would have been how many pictures I had to take of a mob at 1% life, or how expensive Bloodwood lumber and Imp. wootz ingots were, or how I couldnt do SSR with 5, it HAD to be 6, or how that bee never spawned. There were a lot of flaws with endgame content, people tend to single out HNMs for some reason. SE had to do something to keep people playing XI, they didnt know that XIV was going to turn out to be a walking disaster. Ragnarok.Kongming said: » Abyssea didn't increase the population, it decreased the rate at which people were quitting. Sparthos just freakin' said: You had Abyssea release and immediately bring life to forums, draw interest in people in coming back to the game... Quote: Just because x amount of your friends came back to the game, doesn't mean that the general trend wasn't still down. The primary reason for this was because of the stagnation up until Abyssea. The problem with Abyssea was that, despite the stagnation, players were asked to shell out another $30 for what was perceivably more of the same crap they were already sick of, and there were more people who said "I'm not paying for this" and quit, than who were already quit and said "this looks kinda cool". As I said, Abyssea stopped the bleeding caused by '09 XI and got people who played the game interested in re-subbing which helped to add people to the game. SE had an opportunity to bring subs back up further but failed to deliver after Abyssea burned out. Alot of people came back to XI under the impression that things would change (partly because XIV did so poorly) yet the second Abyssea ended things went right back to grinds and snails pace progress which spelled overall disaster for the people they managed to bring back. So lets look at this from a business perspective. XI is on a downward trend, you release a product for a quick cash infusion (Abyssea), players are responsive to this content and overall seem content with more of the same. If Activision was running this game the answer would be: Make more of the same stupid. It wouldn't have to easy-mode Abyssea with infini-brews/RR/MM but more of the same type of progress would have been enough to not only reclaim your lost base who are aging and also attract people looking for an MMO. You could even convince some of these people to try your newer product by using FFXI as a gateway to XIV. However we have SE at the wheel and apparently capturing a base isn't important (nor is making money I suppose) so they get a crowd and disperse them with the same stupidity which had been dispersing crowds pre-Abyssea. Voidwatch arrives and a simple request for a point system (to keep people playing/paying) is apparently too hard for this dev team to accomplish and so the game continues on its nosedive. It's the lack of responsiveness that has been hurting this company beyond the realm of MMOs and here is just another example. I can only imagine what will happen to XI if XIV v.2 does well. To the people who continually crow "then quit!", do you realize how stupid this idea is? You need the base to maintain itself because even if you don't quit, you'll be continually feeling the effects of a shrinking base. You're only hurting yourself by demanding people quit if they're not satisfied with the product. You should want people to stick around because it increases your chances of getting more resources thrown from SE HQ.
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Siren.Kalilla said: » If you don't like it, stop paying. Seriously... If there are all these people who absolutely hate VW as much as you then why give SE your money? Except there are alot of people who have no problem with Voidwatch itself, just how the loot distribution is setup. They wanted to add individual chests to remove alot of the loot drama that plagued large events before, which was a smart move on their part, but just that alone isn't really enough when mules are getting multiplies bodies and mains are not. The loot system is flawed. Voidwatch is actually fun content to me, but dealing with terrible loot distribution makes me just focus my time on other events now. Which is fine by me, but I don't pretend Voidwatch isn't flawed.
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » You should want people to stick around because it increases your chances of getting more resources thrown from SE HQ. What, so they can become Martyrs? Siren.Kalilla said: » So let me get this straight. Just because an event brings people back the game has to keep moving in that direction? No, they should go in the opposite direction so more people will quit. I mean really, what are you saying here? You don't want people who came back for Abyssea (or considered leaving) to stay in the game? Siren.Kalilla said: » They made a whole expansion for your type of player who likes to get everything in a single day. Voidwatch brings small updates with gear better than what abyssea brought in. Wow, hyperbole much? So AF2+1/2 sets, Empyrean weapons, etc can be done in a day? "your type of player?", really? I have no problem with the drop rate in VW, but whoever designed the drop distribution system should be take out the back and hit with a moogle bat. Repeatedly. Making "more of the same" would entail charging people an extra $9.99 for that same premium content. Of course they can do it, but the bean counters over at SE have calculated that it will cause a bigger dent in the population than it will help, because there a lot of people who are not going to pay for it. And once said people can't keep up with their peers because they haven't paid for premium content, they will almost certainly quit.
The general assumption that someone bitching on a forum knows better than people who are paid a lot of money to do what they do...
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Just don't see what it solves.
Every question and answer post has been from a JP player. Every quote has been from a JP player. Does no one else actually understand this? If you stay, and even if our population doubles, they wont change this. They won't answer our questions, our concerns. They do what they want and ignore their customers. You can cry at the top of your lungs, but all they will do is moderate you and keep the conversation in line. I haven't seen a post from any other language section. That is why I say if you don't enjoy the content then don't pay, because money is all they understand from us. That is the only power we have, to pay or not to pay.
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Quetzalcoatl.Zubis said: » I have no problem with the drop rate in VW, but whoever designed the drop distribution system should be take out the back and hit with a moogle bat. Repeatedly. If there are truly only 3 types of NM's you fight, why would you want to finish an entire update in a week? That is why there needs to be a chance of walking away with nothing, that is why the content needs to have players coming back over and over again. This is a filler between abyssea and the new content, that is all. Also, the only thing the distribution system needs is to fix it so you don't get a rare/ex item you already have. just wondering how are you supposed to kill ig-alima without nonstop fanatics? lol I let my drink wear for 1 second and he 1shot me with a normal swing for over 1500 damage
sweet event SE granted it was retardedly easy to rape it procced nonstop, not sure how they expected people to do these without relying completely on their temp items Protescar said: Like others, you're making it out to be far worse than it actually is. Voidwatch isn't the devil incarnate of MMOs, the fights are more engaging than any one of the NMs in Abyssea, which is still for some reason being praised as the saving grace and bestest thing in FFXI evar. The loot distribution is the only issue. Period. It is an issue that can be fixed, and only time will tell if it will be. Until then, I suggest you stop paying for something you quite clearly have no interest in and have such an utter contempt for. "Loot distribution is the only problem". That's like saying the only problem with a corpse is that the person isn't alive. How many years does it take for SE to realize that if the loot system isn't up to par that players will either ignore the system or complain vocally about it? The system you brush off as being minor has everything to do with the game and where it's going. I get the idea that the game is old, SE doesn't want to put too much money into something they seem to want to kill off and that funds are better dumped into the shiny new sports car but that's no reason to ignore the giant elephant in the room that is loot distribution. Good loot distributions make or break content and Voidwatch is catching flak for being a true lottery where you can spin that wheel till 2014 and still have gone nowhere. It doesn't help that white !! removed any strategic play and things have become 'use drinks, hope you keep the mob stunned before a possible wipe' but even if you look past that it could still be fun if points got players excited to work towards a goal. "I'm closer to a new beamsword!" "Man I can't wait to finally get enough points to buy a new set of badass armor." "Working on my Emp and each kill brings me closer to a 95 Empyrean." "Gonna shout up some runs to prep for the 99 trials." This is what Voidwatch is: "Man I can't wait (derp) to bomb some Dondongos." wait that isn't right... "Man I can't wait to get logs and ores again!" There. Quote: Also lol@ Blizzard kicking SE's *** on every level. You've clearly not played WoW all that much. if FFXI had the advertisement that WoW did, it would likely be much bigger than it is today, and I'd wager that those extra funds would have probably made some changes in FFXI's histroy. Gameplay wise, WoW is by no means kicking XI's *** on "every conceivable level". It's a game that's reached out and been more fitting to a wider range of audience, easier to access while still maintaining a "hardcore" side to it, however it does not excel at any of it. FFXI was not built to cater to casual gamers. So having a larger audience (and WoW is old now), a quicker response time to issues, realizing that casual content needs to pronounced while still maintaining some hardcore elements and having more in-depth gameplay doesn't count as losing on 'every conceivable level'? Forget it, pointless debate tangent I care not to go into. We'll call it a draw. I'm not even trying to plug WoW here but there is much SE could learn from Blizzard. Asura.Fondue said: » just wondering how are you supposed to kill ig-alima without nonstop fanatics? lol I let my drink wear for 1 second and he 1shot me with a normal swing for over 1500 damage sweet event SE granted it was retardedly easy to rape it procced nonstop, not sure how they expected people to do these without relying completely on their temp items AV/PW at 75 cap. On the note of people quitting; I've already quit. I'm still going to voice my opinions regardless as I'd like the game to be better. And I LOVE the reasoning that because you could get a piece of gear 1-2 days is the reason why you should only get a piece of gear 1 time a month. I've done a good bit of vw in the past 2 weeks and not seen anything besides 1 chakram off pil, then 2/4 on ogiers bodies.. there goes my drops for the next couple of weeks
/guntohead Asura.Fondue said: » I've done a good bit of vw in the past 2 weeks and not seen anything besides 1 chakram off pil, then 2/4 on ogiers bodies.. there goes my drops for the next couple of weeks /guntohead Last run I went to, a friend of mine got 4 Toci's Harnesses in a row.
You can bet I was livid after the 3rd... chomey added me out of nowhere on gw lol remembered you talking about him
Asura.Fondue said: » chomey added me out of nowhere on gw lol remembered you talking about him Carbuncle.Ianpyst said: » Last run I went to, a friend of mine got 4 Toci's Harnesses in a row. You can bet I was livid after the 3rd... Pics? hard to believe 4 in a row
Clearly gear should be accessible and free to all regardless of their ability to contribute to the group. That's why this person got Coruscanti.
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As if gimps with relics, empyreans, etc. don't exist. Getting lucky on a Qilin run is more forgivable than someone running around in full Aurore wearing a Kannagi.
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You should see my burned gimp blue with toci
I saw a 3/5 AF2 pup with NQ AF3 hands, and toci's... who likes to go pup/blm "for easy warps"... he went like 1/4 and I personally am at about 0/32 or so
Valefor.Prothescar said: » As if gimps with relics, empyreans, etc. don't exist. Getting lucky on a Qilin run is more forgivable than someone running around in full Aurore wearing a Kannagi. That just goes to show Abyssea, which started the whole pro-accessibility thing, is stupid as well. Retards can get Empyreans because they are too easy. Retard relics certainly existed, but the sheer nature of the project made it a lot harder for bad players to finish a Relic unless they outright gil-bought. Can't say the same since the Dynamis update, but again, that just goes to show that the recent content is headed in a bad direction. My position isn't just Voidwatch, I'm against every single thing that has happened post 75. |
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