[Dev] Voidwatch: Response To Feedback
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[Dev] Voidwatch: Response to Feedback
I think it's ok to have super rare drops, but it's very silly the inability to pass an item you already got to others.
Defending ring is an extreme and moronic example. Kings in general were a failure to the overall player base and were only done by a small number of people with the fortitude/bots to spend their life away camping. Lotteries are completely fine when the drop rates are not lower than defending rings, and you have absolutely no control over who gets what.
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Quetzalcoatl.Zagam said: » Phoenix.Dramatica said: » Voidwatch has nothing to do with effort or reward, it's simply playing the lottery and hoping you win. More people need to understand this and realize the flaws. And Tikal is proving my point. There are currently more Mekira Meikogai out there then defending rings. You can spam as much as you want, voidwatch as a design is much better then any of the past time sinks. but yet still not good enough. Still not logging in and collecting the items from the moogle the day of the patch. Damn this game sucks so bad blah blah tanaka blah barance blah blah brb going to rage quit and still play for years but complain about it. It's obviously not that great of a time sink when you compare it to Abyssea and when you see how many people are complaining and quitting over it... Having a reason to bring a large amount of people, cool. Having to compete vs all those people and have the potential pool of people to use shrink with every fight, not cool. I have to shout for obscure NM's like Smierc for Athos gloves for an hour and a half because everyone has them lol. Quetzalcoatl.Zagam said: » Phoenix.Dramatica said: » Voidwatch has nothing to do with effort or reward, it's simply playing the lottery and hoping you win. More people need to understand this and realize the flaws. And Tikal is proving my point. There are currently more Mekira Meikogai out there then defending rings. You can spam as much as you want, voidwatch as a design is much better then any of the past time sinks. but yet still not good enough. Still not logging in and collecting the items from the moogle the day of the patch. Damn this game sucks so bad blah blah tanaka blah barance blah blah brb going to rage quit and still play for years but complain about it.
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Phoenix.Dramatica said: » Defending ring is an extreme and moronic example. Kings in general were a failure to the overall player base and were only done by a small number of people with the fortitude/bots to spend their life away camping. Lotteries are completely fine when the drop rates are not lower than defending rings, and you have absolutely no control over who gets what. There's nothing special like that remaining. The game has been dumbed down so many times that everyone can do everything, and everyone has sky high expectations, everyone wants the best gear, and they'll whine like mad *** when they don't get it. Have you ever considered some items are designed such that only a few people will have them? This was painfully obvious back kings days, but apparently abyssea smacked so many people with the stupid stick that we all forgot about it.
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Phoenix.Dramatica said: » Defending ring is an extreme and moronic example. Kings in general were a failure to the overall player base and were only done by a small number of people with the fortitude/bots to spend their life away camping. Lotteries are completely fine when the drop rates are not lower than defending rings, and you have absolutely no control over who gets what. Honest question, if SE listened to you and added pooling option/points w/e and you completed all the drops you wanted in lets say 3 months with nothing else coming. what exactly would you log in for? Quetzalcoatl.Zagam said: » Are you expecting a different result? I think theres a word for that.... Seemed like SE was putting out a different result during Abyssea - a result people liked. Before you point out the people who hated Abyssea I'll say I'm aware of those people and you fail to realize that the response was largely positive which is all that matters within the scale of an MMO. Neo-Dynamis? Received well. Abyssea? Received well. MMM? Poor reception. VNM? Universally loathed. Nyzul? Received well. Voidwatch? Poor reception. Quote: There is no way to prove I don't have it, in your mind anyone that enjoys this game has it. Hell, I probably do, but at least I enjoy the game. You on the other hand, do have it. The difference is you're in denial. And don't feed me that bs that you'll quit, You're the type that will be here until the plug is finally pulled. Complaining every step of the way, hand in hand with runespider. Since the drawdown of Abyssea I've seen my own LS shrink from ~60 members down to around 10-20 people who still log on, seen the overall size of shells on Lakshmi dip significantly, seen little content to replace the old, a return to Tanaka's torture methods and my own playtime drop with each statement from SE. If anything it's been SE doing an amazing job of breaking my attachment to this game over the past few months. How about you read up on Stockholm's before you post? You're the one defending SEs bad responses to player concerns while refusing to accept that the current system is rubbish. I give SE credit where it's due (story writers put in work, music team almost always delivers and graphics have stood the test of time) but Voidwatch isn't worthy of any praise because it boils down to: -Spawn -Spam drinks -Zerg -Get Nothing / Watch someone get HQ loot they cant use or have already. SE can't even be bothered to cover it up. The new badass mobs are pretty much capable of OHKO'ing pretty much anyone not under an invincibility drink. Feels good getting hit with Death, Doomspam or taking 1800dmg in an attack round. With point systems you'd tell yourself "well, im one step closer to a Murasamemaru or a Toci's" but with the current system you're never any closer to progress and that's even worse than old HNMs where you could at least do something else to stockpile gil and buy the drop. ZNM picture taking seems like a luxury compared to repeating these terrible NMs only to never get ***or the same logs/ore to the moon. I'm always willing to do some grinding if I know that I'm going to get something out of it. I found the ZNM experience overall successful (though most would disagree) but Voidwatch? It's a pure lottery where no matter how much time you throw at it you're still at the same odds as Joe Schmuck #12 of getting a drop. Quote: And overwhelming response? anyone that's ever worked in customer service knows they get 1 positive feedback vs 10's or 100's of complaints. It's human nature to complain, some like you are more vocal then others but taking the few hundred posters that hash the exact same complaints over and over vs the many thousands of players you can't seriously think you have the OVERWHELMING majority. Most people (the dreaded casuals!) will just cancel accounts and say nothing, I'm just a bit more noisy yes. We can call it human nature if you want but really it's just SE making more shitty decisions after failing to learn their lesson the first time. I've said it before and I'll say it again - there are better ways to build timesinks.
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If you can't see why comparing Dring to Voidwatch drops is moronic, then I'm going to stop posting before I get myself banned. Would like above post, but banned from liking posts for some reason. :(
Wait VW is a good way to make gil? WTF where is my god damn gil return on all those crour I spent???? The amount of crour I spent upgrading I can buy 1/3 of a relic with it. after 250+ fight I have yet to see any where close to what I invested!!! ppl stop bring up the HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE reason to justify VW.
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I rarely end up losing gil, but I sure as *** don''t end up making more than pocket change on average unless specifically spamming an nm with gil drops.
Lemme tell you, 2k Gold Ingots are worth it.
Lucky for me last update I got a Thundaja and sold that badboy on day 2 for 5.5m. Felt good man.
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Phoenix.Dramatica said: » Defending ring is an extreme and moronic example. Kings in general were a failure to the overall player base and were only done by a small number of people with the fortitude/bots to spend their life away camping. Lotteries are completely fine when the drop rates are not lower than defending rings, and you have absolutely no control over who gets what. I love how it always degenerates to the RL card. When I was in a HNMLS i payed attention to a ONE MINUTE WINDOW 7 times in 3 hours. In voidwatch I have to watch for procs the entire run. People who never got anything from HNM insist on attributing negative connotations to it that have no founding in fact. I got far more accomplished during the ground king era, outside of game, than I ever did at any other point. Regardless, people are going to *** about any system. The difference is that if I try to get a shout together to get 3 seals I need for bst feet today, It'll take me a month. If i get a voidwatch shout in 6 months Itll fill. Hell I go on some voidwatch runs because they need a proc job that I dont mind a quick 60,000 exp on.......
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Why must you take that comment so seriously? My only point was that kings targeted a very small niche, and very few people wanted to sit in the same spot doing nothing for the low chance of claim. Obviously most campers will end up afking until windows, but I never agreed with the afk for up to 3 hours so I can have a chance at fighting an NM that dies in 10mmins premise of kings. I just don't understand how people found that entertaining besides the drama it brought(which was hilarious and amazing mind you).
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Drama still lives strong without HNMLS.
Was that seal comment serious? If you cannot obtain abyssea gear in a reasonable amount of time, you are too terrible to be playing this game, let alone any game.
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Seriously, let's analyze pooling and compare scenarios from a business standpoint. In this example we'll have two friends who are very likely to share gear pools, since Player1 is DD heavy and Player2 is mage heavy, and they're out for gear accordingly.
In a pooled system they've effectively doubled their drop rate assuming no overlapping gear, and thus the amount of time they take to complete what they set out for has been halved. Most people quit when they run out of goals, so we're essentially taking in half the money we would have "otherwise", and this is only assuming 2 people: guess what happens when an entire alliance of 18 people abuse the system? Now, "otherwise" can be exceptionally misleading because you're not considering what is actually happening. If player2, who is strictly mage only, happens to get a Corsucanti by chance, what is the probability that they will in turn level THF considering the ease in leveling abyssea has granted? Pretty damn high. I'd say there are few other better reasons to level THF. So not only has not pooling created a better time sink for each individual player, the current distribution method actually creates more timesinks, because Player2 will subsequently go on to level THF and gear it. And you're asking SE why they have their heads up their *** when they design this content? Please. Bahamut.Feisei said: » Friends ^ Some people liked Kings for the trash talk and pseudo-PvP elements that came from being in the same zones trying to MPK eachother to get that almighty claim.
It was as close as XI got to PvP. I do recall getting some choice words from other LS' when I would claim a Pony or Sandworm over them. The system was ***but some people have dispositions towards competitive content and currently XI has none of that.
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » some people have dispositions towards competitive content and currently XI has none of that. I just assume that everyone has any job and can make use of any piece of gear unless they are a mule tbh. The whole point of the pooling option would be mainly aimed at extra pieces of gear that you cannon obtain. The drop rates are still low enough for it to take ages for people to cap out of gear, and people will always need gil/upgrade items for empyreans.
Timesinks should be because of large amounts of content with reasonable effort:reward ratios, not abysmal drop rates on extremely small content.
I don't get how people don't get that. I'd be perfectly alright doing the same nm 10-30 times for a piece of gear and have 20 final tier nms to fight than a <1% drop rate from 3-5 fights.
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Phoenix.Dramatica said: » Was that seal comment serious? If you cannot obtain abyssea gear in a reasonable amount of time, you are too terrible to be playing this game, let alone any game. It was the best example I could fabricate for an argument I was only involved in to kill the last 10 minutes before I get to leave work. Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » Some people liked Kings for the trash talk and pseudo-PvP elements that came from being in the same zones trying to MPK eachother to get that almighty claim. It was as close as XI got to PvP. I do recall getting some choice words from other LS' when I would claim a Pony or Sandworm over them. The system was ***but some people have dispositions towards competitive content and currently XI has none of that. I still see people and think "theyre from THAT shell". That drama was half the fun but also forged some strong impressions in me. HNM should of gone like this:
You get interested and start camping for a few weeks/months until you get your drop then you move on to the next thing. What it turned out to be was this: You joined a linkshell that used 3rd party programs to gain the advantage over competition. They did this 24/7 for years, and sold the drops to buyers willing to dish out mountains of gil for that "special" item. Why were these items "special"? Because, only a handful of people on each server controlled who got what, and no normal group could go out there and have the same chance of claiming as the opposing group because they used bots and didn't have to focus. This provided enough gil for members that they really didn't have to do anything else in the game. They could show up to events/pops and just make sure they are there, and at the end of the month they could get a payout of 10+ mil a month. Do that for a few months and you basically have your relic. That is why people did HNM, and that is why SE will not allow people to give items in their chests to others. Even though you can make a relic even faster with the changes they have made to dynamis...
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Bahamut.Serj said: » Timesinks should be because of large amounts of content with reasonable effort:reward ratios, not abysmal drop rates on extremely small content. I don't get how people don't get that. I'd be perfectly alright doing the same nm 10-30 times for a piece of gear and have 20 final tier nms to fight than a <1% drop rate from 3-5 fights.
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Voidwatch isn't exclusive like HNMs were, so your entire argument is invalid. The whole reason that HNM monopolizing was an issue, was because you could *** monopolize it. You can't monopolize voidwatch.
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I agree with this statement however couldnt SE put some sort of check in there? Like how Shinryu works.
Put in for example a check that says this person has X item so it will go to another chest?
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Ragnarok.Kongming said: » Seriously, let's analyze pooling and compare scenarios from a business standpoint. In this example we'll have two friends who are very likely to share gear pools, since Player1 is DD heavy and Player2 is mage heavy, and they're out for gear accordingly. In a pooled system they've effectively doubled their drop rate assuming no overlapping gear, and thus the amount of time they take to complete what they set out for has been halved. Most people quit when they run out of goals, so we're essentially taking in half the money we would have "otherwise", and this is only assuming 2 people: guess what happens when an entire alliance of 18 people abuse the system? Now, "otherwise" can be exceptionally misleading because you're not considering what is actually happening. If player2, who is strictly mage only, happens to get a Corsucanti by chance, what is the probability that they will in turn level THF considering the ease in leveling abyssea has granted? Pretty damn high. I'd say there are few other better reasons to level THF. So not only has not pooling created a better time sink for each individual player, the current distribution method actually creates more timesinks, because Player2 will subsequently go on to level THF and gear it. And you're asking SE why they have their heads up their *** when they design this content? Please. Not everyone gives a ***about rare gear unrelated to the job they currently play. If I say got a Borealis (sparkly GSWD off Ig-Alima), Im not going to rush out to Abyssea to cap DRK or PLD to use this piece of gear because I don't give a ***about those classes. Many people enjoy a handful of jobs and getting gear for unrelated classes means mannequin or /toss. Sure, some people will level a class to use a rare piece but is that gamble worth pissing everyone off with a purely random loot distribution system? 2. By compartmentalizing the drops to individuals under the current system you drive a wedge between friends/associates who are often the reason people log-in to play FFXI. Nothing but repetition can help your friends get drops which means eventually you burn out of trying and move on or pursue selfish play-styles. Voidwatch is PUG friendly but linkshells? Terrible system to help likeminded people with. The whole system destroys the social aspect of XI all for the sake of trying to be "fair" and by "fair" I mean distributing loot like a wacky waving inflatable arm-flailing tube man. In the old system of say.. ZNM I could gear myself and reasonably put in time to help a buddy or 4 with his drops with the mindset that we stood a good chance of seeing the drop with a few kills. You could cap out on loot in ZNM (barring Hachiryu which was meant to be rare) easily yet we're supposed to believe Voidwatch loot improvements would send people running to the doors? SE has never had an issue with selling rare/ex gear in the past anyways. The only time it was ever an issue was when people would outclaim others on NMs for the sole sake of gil and waste drops if people wouldn't pay. The sheer rarity and demand of voidwatch drops would keep most from being sold anyways.
The design is flawed, heavy metals should have been the grinding incentive or act as the point system and the ultra rare/ex gear is just icing on the cake type of reward. I don't get my SE make both ***so rare that when ppl get bodies they'll stop going because the 99% occuy port jeuno will know they can't finish the upgrade.
just make an indepent treasure slot that drop 1-3 plates rather you cap light or not and that will give ppl the incentive to grind this for anothe year or two depend how much time each person spend playing everyday or how many empy weapon they had. its a win win situation for the player and the developer's paycheck. Phoenix.Dramatica said: » Voidwatch isn't exclusive like HNMs were, so your entire argument is invalid. The whole reason that HNM monopolizing was an issue, was because you could *** monopolize it. You can't monopolize voidwatch. If you could suddenly start giving items to people, there would be linkshells just like there are FC burns. You pop constantly throughout the day until the drop is in one of the members chests. Then you have that mule come over and trade you for the 25 mil you spent on that body, and they put it in the treasure pool for you to lot. It is no different, at all. Yes they can't monopolize it, but they can still do the same ***. |
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