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Pope: Not to share wealth with poor is to steal
Server: Asura
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-29 07:22:41
Is this the class warfare thread or the charity thread ? To progressive/liberals, it's a class warfare thread (that's all they know about). To everyone else, it's a charity thread.
By fonewear 2015-04-29 07:24:49
Only rich celebrities are generous to charities you know like Tom Hanks etc. People like Larry Ellison Bill Gates etc (all billionaires) never donate money !
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By Bloodrose 2015-04-29 07:25:53
Is this the class warfare thread or the charity thread ? To progressive/liberals, it's a class warfare thread (that's all they know about). To everyone else, it's a charity thread. But to the truly elite of all human specimens, it's just a complete waste of time.
Damn, now I posted something in the PnR Threads.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-29 07:27:22
Is this the class warfare thread or the charity thread ? To progressive/liberals, it's a class warfare thread (that's all they know about). To everyone else, it's a charity thread. But to the truly elite of all human specimens, it's just a complete waste of time.
Damn, now I posted something in the PnR Threads. Welcome back!
And it isn't a waste of time, it's entertainment.
I just love watching Jet and Jassik jump around spouting nonsense all the time.
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By fonewear 2015-04-29 07:27:24
Is this the class warfare thread or the charity thread ? To progressive/liberals, it's a class warfare thread (that's all they know about). To everyone else, it's a charity thread. But to the truly elite of all human specimens, it's just a complete waste of time.
Damn, now I posted something in the PnR Threads.
Speaking of waste of time...looking at the FFXI general section !
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Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-04-29 08:23:56
Give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach a man to fish he eats for a lifetime. Except no one wants to or seems to be able to teach them...
Why learn how to fish when the government gives me all the fish I could ever want? So much easier to vote Democrat and have everything handed to me. So what if the government took those fish from someone who had the skill and worked for them. Why should I be expected to support myself and my family. Feed me damn it! Idk.. you seem pretty ok with your brother leeching off the system so why do you have a problem with other people taking advantage of it?
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-04-29 08:26:25
The Bill & Melinda Gates foundation has been one of the most amazing charities.
Warren Buffet has also pledged the bulk of his wealth to the foundation in his will as others have as well.
Edit: their current (main)goal atm is eliminating polio from the globe of which they've made pretty significant progress so far.
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Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-04-29 08:48:28
Also, like anything really its not balck and white. Tehre are wealthy people who give there time as well as money as well as the same from those that do not have as much wealth do.
I think it's a real problem when we start criticizing people for donating to charity in whatever way they do. It shouldn't be about the haves or the have nots or all the other *** we bring into this stuff but rather just a sincere gesture and willingness to help advance a good cause. We need both and accept it for what it is and that people donating their time or money is both necassary to keep some programs running and generous on both accounts.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-29 08:54:10
I think it's a real problem when we start criticizing people for donating to charity in whatever way they do. It shouldn't be about the haves or the have nots or all the other *** we bring into this stuff but rather just a sincere gesture and willingness to help advance a good cause. We need both and accept it for what it is and that people donating their time or money is both necassary to keep some programs running and generous on both accounts. You should tell the pope that.
By fonewear 2015-04-29 08:54:58
When the Pope ends poverty will someone let me know...
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-04-29 08:56:22
You should tell the pope that. Sorry I don't have a direct line to the pope man.
By fonewear 2015-04-29 09:00:48
I think the Pope should go to Baltimore and help the youths !
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-29 09:08:38
You should tell the pope that. Sorry I don't have a direct line to the pope man. You have a better chance of communicating to him that I do.
That is, unless I give a little more than half of my wealth to the church, then he might see me.
I rather not promote practices I don't agree with, tbh.
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By fonewear 2015-04-29 09:10:50
If you want the Pope to appear just say his name 10 times in a mirror !
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Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-04-29 09:12:21
I rather not promote practices I don't agree with, tbh. I'd rather not as well.
Whether I agree with em or not though I recognize that other people will agree and promote them so it's just something you have to deal with.
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VIP
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-04-29 09:26:06
Quote: Pope Francis has taken aim at capitalism as "a new tyranny" and is urging world leaders to step up their efforts against poverty and inequality, saying "thou shall not kill" the economy. Francis calls on rich people to share their wealth. That's not a solution. We already share our wealth far more than he does. What more does he want?
I mean, we could take our tithes from the church away and give it to homeless shelters (those who actually go to church that is).
If he wants to promote income equality, then he should promote policies that, you know, increase jobs and increase wages, not by asking for a more dependent class. That's promoting more income inequality...
Unfortunately, there will be people swayed by this idiot...
Give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach a man to fish he eats for a lifetime.
People can't seem to make the leap from "skills gap" to "education" without tripping into "bootstrap" and "entitlement" logical pitfalls. People seem to like to throw logical pitfalls like "bootstrap" and "entitlement" into any argument regarding the working class. I just quoted one doing so now!
You're the one who brought up education and the skills gap and claimed people who don't succeed just don't want to work.
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Seraph.Ramyrez
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By Seraph.Ramyrez 2015-04-29 09:37:59
You're the one who brought up education and the skills gap and claimed people who don't succeed just don't want to work.
Let's be honest. You can't entirely blame people who think this way, especially if they're successful themselves. If they suggest otherwise, it might mean that they aren't 100% able to take credit for what they have. They didn't do it all on their own. They may have had help, or luck; good circumstances, family support, a good neighborhood...even something as simple as a good professor or part-time employer to be a reference.*
It's easier to just blame people who aren't successful for being lazy, claim victory, and call it a day.
It may sound like I'm being facetious or sarcastic here...and I might be, a little. But I'm more serious than you may think.
I really think that these things don't occur to many, many people. At least not really. They'll say they do and argue passionately that they're right even with these factors figured in. If they've put hard work in, they're loathe to admit that anything else played a factor in their success.
Now, inversely, there are some people -- and trust me, I have them in my own family -- who will claim to entirely be victims of circumstance while not being willing to do what they have to do to better themselves. Hard work isn't a thing. They're waiting for the perfect opportunity to be paid for what they already like and are good at doing, and if that job isn't falling into their lap, they're a victim of circumstance.
Those people exist too. As do those who have fallen into opportunity and don't even realize it or appreciate it (though, as KN has pointed out, these people generally don't stay wealthy for life or, at least, their families don't stay wealthy across generations).
But truth be told, most of us fall into the middle in varying degrees.
*Edit: For anecdotal evidence of the bad-luck side of what I'm saying here: I had an employer in HS/college for whom I busted my *** during the summers and he praised me constantly while I worked for him, but he wouldn't even spit at me to acknowledge he knew me because he was so mad I didn't come back to work for him after a few years and I got word later that he actually bad mouthed me to other people for not coming back, despite the fact I told him clearly, and well ahead of time that I wouldn't be coming back the next summer. That's a guy for whom I did excellent work and, given it was a summer temporary thing, I should have been able to count on as an employer reference. At the actual time of parting, we even departed on good terms. But it just didn't play out like it was "supposed to".
Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2015-04-29 09:48:48
Its nice to see a religious figure actually preaching in line with the faith, if there's anything I despise more than ridiculous ideals, it's people who claim them and do the opposite.
The question is: when religious allegiance and political allegiance are at odds, which will people choose?
Well, there were rumblings over Pope Francis's desire to retire rather than die as the head of the church a couple of months ago. Knowing that he is at odds with more conservative/traditional Catholics, I wonder if an early retirement would pave the way for a step backwards for the Catholic church.
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Seraph.Ramyrez
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By Seraph.Ramyrez 2015-04-29 09:53:59
I'd say I'm not a fan of this new trend of Popes "retiring", but then again, it got Ratzinger out as fast as possible, which I can't say I was against.
Nothing like having a Nazi as Pope, even if he was just a passive one.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-29 10:23:05
I really think that these things don't occur to many, many people. At least not really. They'll say they do and argue passionately that they're right even with these factors figured in. If they've put hard work in, they're loathe to admit that anything else played a factor in their success. Not loathing to admit anything, it doesn't factor into the equation.
Or are we supposed to sing praises for the people who make the programs we use to succeed, or the pencil makers for making the pencil that was in our workpapers that helped us succeed?
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Seraph.Ramyrez
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By Seraph.Ramyrez 2015-04-29 10:27:04
I really think that these things don't occur to many, many people. At least not really. They'll say they do and argue passionately that they're right even with these factors figured in. If they've put hard work in, they're loathe to admit that anything else played a factor in their success. Not loathing to admit anything, it doesn't factor into the equation.
Or are we supposed to sing praises for the people who make the programs we use to succeed, or the pencil makers for making the pencil that was in our workpapers that helped us succeed?
See? Entire point missed. It's like there's a mental block there.
It's okay, it's not going to change the world either way and I'm certainly not going to change any minds. So...whatever, I guess.
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VIP
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-04-29 10:36:18
Let's be honest. You can't entirely blame people who think this way, especially if they're successful themselves. If they suggest otherwise, it might mean that they aren't 100% able to take credit for what they have. They didn't do it all on their own. They may have had help, or luck; good circumstances, family support, a good neighborhood...even something as simple as a good professor or part-time employer to be a reference.*
I don't think that way and I grew up with next to nothing. We had a black and white TV from the 60's with rabbit ears, lived in a small house in a crappy neighborhood, had a 20+ year old car, etc. When I graduated from high school there was no college fund, no savings (sans what I had earned myself). I worked full-time to pay for college, worked 2 or even 3 jobs for nearly a decade, relocated half a dozen times for jobs, etc. We're doing well, now, but it took ~15 years of nearly nonstop devotion. I am the poster child for "bootstrap", and nobody should have to do what I've done to live "comfortably".
Most people who have the mentality started at the middle or above. In fact, I don't know a single one personally who came from where I came from and still believes that crap.
Now, inversely, there are some people -- and trust me, I have them in my own family -- who will claim to entirely be victims of circumstance while not being willing to do what they have to do to better themselves. Hard work isn't a thing. They're waiting for the perfect opportunity to be paid for what they already like and are good at doing, and if that job isn't falling into their lap, they're a victim of circumstance.
I completely agree, I have some in my tree as well. However, they are not the norm. Almost everyone I know who is in that situation is there through no real fault of their own. Injuries, outsourcing, venture capitalists, stock market and housing market crashes... Those things can absolutely crush decades of hard work for a disgustingly large number of Americans, and I've seen it first hand. A couple I know were forced to return to work after 14 years of retirement after the 1-2 punch of their retirement account imploding thanks to Enron and their rental property investments falling through the floor with the housing crash. 40+ years of hard work and at 68 years old, a man and his wife now live in near poverty status, near a million dollars worth of value just cut off at the knees. He works as a gas station attendant, she works part time as a dish-washer, because nobody wants to hire a 70+ year old professional who is nearly 20 years out of the industry.
Unlike the Chicago woman getting 11 welfare checks, these people are real, and they're far from uncommon.
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By fonewear 2015-04-29 10:38:14
I blame those big corporations for being greedy !
By Jetackuu 2015-04-29 10:43:21
Kingnobody you can't argue rationally with someone who doesn't value rationale nor can you utilize facts with people who do not value factual information. They argue from a place of emotion, they feel they are right and therefor they believe they are right. They feel you are wrong and therefor they believe you are wrong. Facts and figures are then created in order to support the aforementioned feelings.
It's funny when you just described the entire conservative ideology when it comes to the economy.
Seraph.Ramyrez
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By Seraph.Ramyrez 2015-04-29 10:50:10
.
It's funny when you just described the entire conservative ideology when it comes to the economy a great many things.
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By fonewear 2015-04-29 10:54:04
I really think that these things don't occur to many, many people. At least not really. They'll say they do and argue passionately that they're right even with these factors figured in. If they've put hard work in, they're loathe to admit that anything else played a factor in their success. Not loathing to admit anything, it doesn't factor into the equation.
Or are we supposed to sing praises for the people who make the programs we use to succeed, or the pencil makers for making the pencil that was in our workpapers that helped us succeed?
See? Entire point missed. It's like there's a mental block there.
It's okay, it's not going to change the world either way and I'm certainly not going to change any minds. So...whatever, I guess.
Wait a minute there was a point to this thread ?
Pope to the great unwashed "Let my people go" Wait that was the Lord speaking to Moses !
By Jetackuu 2015-04-29 10:54:34
Let's be honest. You can't entirely blame people who think this way, especially if they're successful themselves. If they suggest otherwise, it might mean that they aren't 100% able to take credit for what they have. They didn't do it all on their own. They may have had help, or luck; good circumstances, family support, a good neighborhood...even something as simple as a good professor or part-time employer to be a reference.*
I don't think that way and I grew up with next to nothing. We had a black and white TV from the 60's with rabbit ears, lived in a small house in a crappy neighborhood, had a 20+ year old car, etc. When I graduated from high school there was no college fund, no savings (sans what I had earned myself). I worked full-time to pay for college, worked 2 or even 3 jobs for nearly a decade, relocated half a dozen times for jobs, etc. We're doing well, now, but it took ~15 years of nearly nonstop devotion. I am the poster child for "bootstrap", and nobody should have to do what I've done to live "comfortably".
Most people who have the mentality started at the middle or above. In fact, I don't know a single one personally who came from where I came from and still believes that crap.
@Ramy: nobody ever does it 100% themselves, as long as they did it in society, society takes it's part, and as a society we have our duties and obligations to it.
@Jassik: I know a few people who came from poverty to the middle class, but most of them are from the baby boomer generation, and have that ideology ingrained into them so hard that talking logic just falls flat.
etc.
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Server: Asura
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-29 10:54:55
I really think that these things don't occur to many, many people. At least not really. They'll say they do and argue passionately that they're right even with these factors figured in. If they've put hard work in, they're loathe to admit that anything else played a factor in their success. Not loathing to admit anything, it doesn't factor into the equation.
Or are we supposed to sing praises for the people who make the programs we use to succeed, or the pencil makers for making the pencil that was in our workpapers that helped us succeed?
See? Entire point missed. It's like there's a mental block there.
It's okay, it's not going to change the world either way and I'm certainly not going to change any minds. So...whatever, I guess.
Wait a minute there was a point to this thread ? Besides shaming people to donate more of their money to charity? Nope.
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By fonewear 2015-04-29 10:56:36
It reminds me of that SPCA video showing suffering dogs and cats to get you to donate to their charity. Appeal to feels to get the money !
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By fonewear 2015-04-29 11:01:33
Get the Pope some poor children and a sappy song then watch the money roll in !
Quote: 'Not to share wealth with poor is to steal': Pope slams capitalism as 'new tyranny'
Pope Francis has taken aim at capitalism as "a new tyranny" and is urging world leaders to step up their efforts against poverty and inequality, saying "thou shall not kill" the economy. Francis calls on rich people to share their wealth.
The existing financial system that fuels the unequal distribution of wealth and violence must be changed, the Pope warned.
"How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses two points?" Pope Francis asked an audience at the Vatican.
The global economic crisis, which has gripped much of Europe and America, has the Pope asking how countries can function, or realize their full economic potential, if they are weighed down by the debts of capitalism.
“A new tyranny is thus born, invisible and often virtual, which unilaterally and relentlessly imposes its own laws and rules,” the 84-page document, known as an apostolic exhortation, said.
"To all this we can add widespread corruption and self-serving tax evasion, which has taken on worldwide dimensions. The thirst for power and possessions knows no limits", the pope’s document says.
He goes on to explain that in this system, which tends to devour everything which stands in the way of increased profits, whatever is fragile, like the environment, is defenseless before the interests of a deified market, which has become the only rule we live by.
Shameful wealth
Inequality between the rich and the poor has reached a new threshold, and in his apostolic exhortation to mark the end of the “Year of Faith”, Pope Francis asks for better politicians to heal the scars capitalism made on society.
"Just as the commandment 'Thou shalt not kill' sets a clear limit in order to safeguard the value of human life, today we also have to say 'thou shalt not' to an economy of exclusion and inequality. Such an economy kills," Francis wrote in the document issued Tuesday.
His calls to service go beyond general good Samaritan deeds, as he asks his followers for action “beyond a simple welfare mentality".
"I beg the Lord to grant us more politicians who are genuinely disturbed by the state of society, the people, the lives of the poor,” Francis wrote.
A recent IRS report shows that the wealth of the US’s richest 1 percent has grown by 31 percent, while the rest of the population experienced an income rise of only 1 percent.
The most recent Oxfam data shows that up to 146 million Europeans are at risk of falling into poverty by 2025 and 50 million Americans are currently suffering from severe financial hardship.
"As long as the problems of the poor are not radically resolved by rejecting the absolute autonomy of markets and financial speculation, and by attacking the structural causes of inequality, no solution will be found for the world's problems or, for that matter, to any problems," he wrote.
Named after the medieval saint who chose a life of poverty, Pope Francis has gone beyond general calls for fair work, education, and healthcare.
Newly-elected Pope Francis has stepped up the fight against corrupt capitalism that has hit close to home - he was the first Pope to go after the Vatican bank and openly accused it of fraud and shady offshore tax haven deals.
In October, Pope Francis removed Vatican bank head Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, after revelations of alleged mafia money laundering and financial impropriety.
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