Pope: Not To Share Wealth With Poor Is To Steal

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Pope: Not to share wealth with poor is to steal
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 Seraph.Ramyrez
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By Seraph.Ramyrez 2015-04-28 11:35:31
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Bahamut.Seekerstar said: »
I just can't support a group who's tried to systematically eliminate or absorb every other faith it has encountered since the dawn of its inception.

They all do that. Their methods just vary, and doublespeak runs rampant for some.
 Bahamut.Seekerstar
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By Bahamut.Seekerstar 2015-04-28 11:36:07
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Seraph.Ramyrez said: »
Bahamut.Seekerstar said: »
I just can't support a group who's tried to systematically eliminate or absorb every other faith it has encountered since the dawn of its inception.

They all do that. Their methods just vary, and doublespeak runs rampant for some.

Hence why I do not practice organized religion!
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 Seraph.Ramyrez
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By Seraph.Ramyrez 2015-04-28 11:38:36
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Bahamut.Seekerstar said: »
Hence why I do not practice organized religion!

Yeah....I continually find myself liking Christianity at its core for its values, except most of the vocal followers don't actually practice the core values they claim they believe in, and want to instead tell you about how you're a bad person for not believing in their God despite practicing their beliefs better than they do themselves.

Christianity has always been big on the "it's easier to do a bad thing and ask for forgiveness than to try to get permission for the bad thing". God forgives all as long as you believe! So you don't have to be a good person after all! What a bunch of ***.

So...like I said. I don't trust the Pope or his words, there's too much history for that.

But I want to believe things can change, too.
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 Bahamut.Seekerstar
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By Bahamut.Seekerstar 2015-04-28 11:43:10
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The idea of religion is great. The idea behind most religions is great.

Human beings, as usual (and pardon my French) *** it up. We made it something to kill each other over, which sort of goes against the core concepts that were originally introduced.

Things can change, nothing is static... but I personally believe that this is just another instance of *** to be fed to people for the sole reason of enriching the aims of the Church, rather than its members.
 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-04-28 12:00:03
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Human beings *** up an idea they came up with? Well, you don't say.

What's the idea of religion? To explain our place in the universe? To give us guideposts to live by? To brutally subjugate a populace? To inspire hope when all seems hopeless? To tell and retell stories in a creative manner? To justify the powers that be?

Everyone has a different answer.

Religion has numerous ideas and the underpinnings define the religion. Just like people. It's dogmatic adherence that ultimately leads to conflict. Doomsday cultism also isn't helping the three monotheistic players dominating the global religion game.

If you choose to believe in ancestor worship or animism or some ***, no one really cares because it doesn't affect others. When you start asking to sacrifice children to make the sun rise or execute infidels, then we have the stage set for conflict.
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By Jetackuu 2015-04-28 12:11:18
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
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Pope Francis has taken aim at capitalism as "a new tyranny" and is urging world leaders to step up their efforts against poverty and inequality, saying "thou shall not kill" the economy. Francis calls on rich people to share their wealth.
That's not a solution. We already share our wealth far more than he does. What more does he want?

I mean, we could take our tithes from the church away and give it to homeless shelters (those who actually go to church that is).

If he wants to promote income equality, then he should promote policies that, you know, increase jobs and increase wages, not by asking for a more dependent class. That's promoting more income inequality...

Unfortunately, there will be people swayed by this idiot...

Can you Reaganomics any harder?
Obamanomics is certainly the answer, isn't it.

How's that going for you again? High unemployment, larger income inequality, low to stagnate real GDP growth, not to mention all of the social issues that arises from all this also.

You certainly are living the dream world. So, how long are you going to live in this misery before you admit that your wrong?

The unemployment rate is still at 5.5%, not really that high, not great, but not high. (inb4 that's not the real #)

Try again with your fantasies.

Hint: Never did I say anything about Obama, that's all you.

edit2: the trickle-down myth is your faith, to each their own I guess.
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By Bahamut.Seekerstar 2015-04-28 12:16:14
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Human beings *** up an idea they came up with? Well, you don't say.

What's the idea of religion? To explain our place in the universe? To give us guideposts to live by? To brutally subjugate a populace? To inspire hope when all seems hopeless? To tell and retell stories in a creative manner? To justify the powers that be?

Everyone has a different answer.

Religion has numerous ideas and the underpinnings define the religion. Just like people. It's dogmatic adherence that ultimately leads to conflict. Doomsday cultism also isn't helping the three monotheistic players dominating the global religion game.

If you choose to believe in ancestor worship or animism or some ***, no one really cares because it doesn't affect others. When you start asking to sacrifice children to make the sun rise or execute infidels, then we have the stage set for conflict.

I could make an argument that ritual sacrifice, as long as it's not pressed on others outside your religious community AND it's voluntary, isn't 100% wrong but that, as usual, would just piss people off.

The fact that people seem to think it their mission in life to convert others to their way of believing is the issue.

It isn't the deity.

It isn't the belief system.

It's the humans.

"In the name of Jesus Christ I will kill you." Yeah, no.
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-04-28 12:19:03
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People try to push and force others to believe the same way that they do all the time. Why is it only a problem when it's done in the name of religion?
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By Jetackuu 2015-04-28 12:19:16
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Seraph.Ramyrez said: »
red herring!
It was either the religion discussion, the cover-up discussions or the class-war discussion, I picked one.
 Seraph.Ramyrez
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By Seraph.Ramyrez 2015-04-28 12:19:18
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Bahamut.Seekerstar said: »
I could make an argument that ritual sacrifice, as long as it's not pressed on others outside your religious community AND it's voluntary, isn't 100% wrong but that, as usual, would just piss people off.

The funny thing is, people would be against it while still defending the rights of other religious nuts to reject medicines and treatments for curable/treatable illnesses, and to also force those life(death)style choices on children.
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By Seraph.Ramyrez 2015-04-28 12:21:11
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
People try to push and force others to believe the same way that they do all the time. Why is it only a problem when it's done in the name of religion?

No good can come of asking/answering this question. Every single possible answer is ripe to start three more different debates.
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By Bahamut.Seekerstar 2015-04-28 12:21:25
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Seraph.Ramyrez said: »
Bahamut.Seekerstar said: »
I could make an argument that ritual sacrifice, as long as it's not pressed on others outside your religious community AND it's voluntary, isn't 100% wrong but that, as usual, would just piss people off.

The funny thing is, people would be against it while still defending the rights of other religious nuts to reject medicines and treatments for curable/treatable illnesses, and to also force those life(death)style choices on children.

Oh please do NOT get me started on that. >.< You're right, though.
 Seraph.Ramyrez
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By Seraph.Ramyrez 2015-04-28 12:21:49
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Jetackuu said: »
Seraph.Ramyrez said: »
red herring!
It was either the religion discussion, the cover-up discussions or the class-war discussion, I picked one.

I'm inclined to agree with most of your points, I just find the conversation tiresome. We've had it a lot with you gone.
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By Jetackuu 2015-04-28 12:22:35
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Seraph.Ramyrez said: »
Bahamut.Seekerstar said: »
I could make an argument that ritual sacrifice, as long as it's not pressed on others outside your religious community AND it's voluntary, isn't 100% wrong but that, as usual, would just piss people off.

The funny thing is, people would be against it while still defending the rights of other religious nuts to reject medicines and treatments for curable/treatable illnesses, and to also force those life(death)style choices on children.

It's actually an interesting discussion: should people have the right to offer their lives for their beliefs? The knee-jerk is to say "lolno" but if one's talking about personal liberties, and they're of legal decision age and of sound mind* why not?

* I realize the irony and contradiction in this statement.
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 Bahamut.Seekerstar
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By Bahamut.Seekerstar 2015-04-28 12:23:55
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Seraph.Ramyrez said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
People try to push and force others to believe the same way that they do all the time. Why is it only a problem when it's done in the name of religion?

No good can come of asking/answering this question. Every single possible answer is ripe to start three more different debates.

To me, it's wrong no matter what the reasoning is.

I have a free will and choose to believe as I see fit. Nobody can take that from me. If I choose to believe in a doorknob as the highest power in this universe, that's my damn choice and I don't particularly care who likes it or not.

I have the right to my own social beliefs, political beliefs, and interpersonal beliefs.

They may not make me popular, but ***, if I cared about popular I'd be one of those ditzhead chicks who giggles inanely about everything instead of using the brain I was born with.
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By Jetackuu 2015-04-28 12:24:33
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Seraph.Ramyrez said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Seraph.Ramyrez said: »
red herring!
It was either the religion discussion, the cover-up discussions or the class-war discussion, I picked one.

I'm inclined to agree with most of your points, I just find the conversation tiresome. We've had it a lot with you gone.

Indeed, I've skimmed over it a few times.
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-04-28 12:25:27
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
People try to push and force others to believe the same way that they do all the time. Why is it only a problem when it's done in the name of religion?

Trying to sway someone to your point of view is not the same as forcing. But, most Americans are fearfully acquiescent to religious idea cramming. The only thing more abhorrent than being anti-christian is being anti-Nascar.
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By Jetackuu 2015-04-28 12:25:33
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Bahamut.Seekerstar said: »
Seraph.Ramyrez said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
People try to push and force others to believe the same way that they do all the time. Why is it only a problem when it's done in the name of religion?

No good can come of asking/answering this question. Every single possible answer is ripe to start three more different debates.

To me, it's wrong no matter what the reasoning is.

I have a free will and choose to believe as I see fit. Nobody can take that from me. If I choose to believe in a doorknob as the highest power in this universe, that's my damn choice and I don't particularly care who likes it or not.

I have the right to my own social beliefs, political beliefs, and interpersonal beliefs.

They may not make me popular, but ***, if I cared about popular I'd be one of those ditzhead chicks who giggles inanely about everything instead of using the brain I was born with.

There's a difference between beliefs and knowledge, and the two are often confused, way too much in fact.
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By Jetackuu 2015-04-28 12:26:10
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
People try to push and force others to believe the same way that they do all the time. Why is it only a problem when it's done in the name of religion?

Trying to sway someone to your point of view is not the same as forcing. But, most Americans are fearfully acquiescent to religious idea cramming. The only thing more abhorrent than being anti-christian is being anti-Nascar.
How about both? also anti-football.

Not a fan of beer either. Or camo, or deer.
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 Bismarck.Snprphnx
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By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2015-04-28 12:31:37
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This Pope has radically changed the Catholic Church since he was elected. Starting with his choosing his papal name of Francsis, he showed he would be focusing on servitude and simplicity. He opted to not live in the traditional Papal Housing, but in a guest residence in the Vatican, and when he walked out on the balcony after his election, he refused to wear the traditional Papal attire, and went with a simple white dressing. He has begun changing the Vatican Bank to be up to date with global banking standards, in an effort to be both more transparent and help eliminate corruption. He himself will officiate marriage ceremonies. This guy is different. He genuinely wants to clean up the Catholic Churches act and bring more followers in.
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 Bahamut.Seekerstar
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By Bahamut.Seekerstar 2015-04-28 12:33:14
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Bismarck.Snprphnx said: »
This Pope has radically changed the Catholic Church since he was elected. Starting with his choosing his papal name of Francsis, he showed he would be focusing on servitude and simplicity. He opted to not live in the traditional Papal Housing, but in a guest residence in the Vatican, and when he walked out on the balcony after his election, he refused to wear the traditional Papal attire, and went with a simple white dressing. He has begun changing the Vatican Bank to be up to date with global banking standards, in an effort to be both more transparent and help eliminate corruption. He himself will officiate marriage ceremonies. This guy is different. He genuinely wants to clean up the Catholic Churches act and bring more followers in.

:s

You sound quite....sure of yourself here. Are you the Pope? Otherwise this is a mixture of a few facts and a lot more speculation.
 Bahamut.Seekerstar
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By Bahamut.Seekerstar 2015-04-28 12:33:54
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Jetackuu said: »
Bahamut.Seekerstar said: »
Seraph.Ramyrez said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
People try to push and force others to believe the same way that they do all the time. Why is it only a problem when it's done in the name of religion?

No good can come of asking/answering this question. Every single possible answer is ripe to start three more different debates.

To me, it's wrong no matter what the reasoning is.

I have a free will and choose to believe as I see fit. Nobody can take that from me. If I choose to believe in a doorknob as the highest power in this universe, that's my damn choice and I don't particularly care who likes it or not.

I have the right to my own social beliefs, political beliefs, and interpersonal beliefs.

They may not make me popular, but ***, if I cared about popular I'd be one of those ditzhead chicks who giggles inanely about everything instead of using the brain I was born with.

There's a difference between beliefs and knowledge, and the two are often confused, way too much in fact.

Mind telling me where I mixed things up? I don't see where I confused beliefs and knowledge at all.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-04-28 12:36:38
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Well, there's a whole subsection of people who think that every view that they hold is based on absolute fact, because "opinion" is a dirty word to them for some stupid reason.
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-04-28 12:38:49
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Bahamut.Seekerstar said: »
To me, it's wrong no matter what the reasoning is.

I have a free will and choose to believe as I see fit. Nobody can take that from me. If I choose to believe in a doorknob as the highest power in this universe, that's my damn choice and I don't particularly care who likes it or not.

I have the right to my own social beliefs, political beliefs, and interpersonal beliefs.

They may not make me popular, but ***, if I cared about popular I'd be one of those ditzhead chicks who giggles inanely about everything instead of using the brain I was born with.

You're welcome to believe whatever you want. Just don't get the idea that believing something earns you a seat at the table, it's not a participation award. I have plenty of ridiculous personal beliefs that I keep personal, where they belong.

Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Well, there's a whole subsection of people who think that every view that they hold is based on absolute fact, because "opinion" is a dirty word to them for some stupid reason.

I don't think that every idea I have is fact/gospel, but I do make a clear distinction between my personal beliefs and public policy.
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 Bahamut.Seekerstar
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By Bahamut.Seekerstar 2015-04-28 12:39:34
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Absolute facts can be explained scientifically and can be proven in the same way.

That just doesn't happen with what most people think/believe.

Opinions are like ***: everyone has one, sometimes they stink, but you have one hell of a time if you lack a good working one.
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By Bahamut.Seekerstar 2015-04-28 12:40:03
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Seekerstar said: »
To me, it's wrong no matter what the reasoning is.

I have a free will and choose to believe as I see fit. Nobody can take that from me. If I choose to believe in a doorknob as the highest power in this universe, that's my damn choice and I don't particularly care who likes it or not.

I have the right to my own social beliefs, political beliefs, and interpersonal beliefs.

They may not make me popular, but ***, if I cared about popular I'd be one of those ditzhead chicks who giggles inanely about everything instead of using the brain I was born with.

You're welcome to believe whatever you want. Just don't get the idea that believing something earns you a seat at the table, it's not a participation award. I have plenty of ridiculous personal beliefs that I keep personal, where they belong.

Which is why I rarely share them. :)
 Seraph.Ramyrez
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By Seraph.Ramyrez 2015-04-28 12:41:15
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Jetackuu said: »
Not a fan of beer either. Or camo, or deer.

I like camo, but only worn in a non-traditional sense. Like the hippies! But with showers and jobs.

Beer is fine with me. Even the cheap stuff. I don't drink it much, but it has its place (mostly college parties).

Deer are awful, that's why we shoot them. They taste delicious. (Hey, look. Cross-thread content!)
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-28 12:43:04
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Jetackuu said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Quote:
Pope Francis has taken aim at capitalism as "a new tyranny" and is urging world leaders to step up their efforts against poverty and inequality, saying "thou shall not kill" the economy. Francis calls on rich people to share their wealth.
That's not a solution. We already share our wealth far more than he does. What more does he want?

I mean, we could take our tithes from the church away and give it to homeless shelters (those who actually go to church that is).

If he wants to promote income equality, then he should promote policies that, you know, increase jobs and increase wages, not by asking for a more dependent class. That's promoting more income inequality...

Unfortunately, there will be people swayed by this idiot...

Can you Reaganomics any harder?
Obamanomics is certainly the answer, isn't it.

How's that going for you again? High unemployment, larger income inequality, low to stagnate real GDP growth, not to mention all of the social issues that arises from all this also.

You certainly are living the dream world. So, how long are you going to live in this misery before you admit that your wrong?

The unemployment rate is still at 5.5%, not really that high, not great, but not high. (inb4 that's not the real #)
Out of all that, you pick the argument easily referenced?

How's that labor participation rate going for you?

But at least you admit that there is a larger income inequality and low to stagnate real GDP growth, along with a lot of social issues that arise from a poor economy is all on your hero Obama.
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By fonewear 2015-04-28 12:46:22
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Seekerstar said: »
To me, it's wrong no matter what the reasoning is.

I have a free will and choose to believe as I see fit. Nobody can take that from me. If I choose to believe in a doorknob as the highest power in this universe, that's my damn choice and I don't particularly care who likes it or not.

I have the right to my own social beliefs, political beliefs, and interpersonal beliefs.

They may not make me popular, but ***, if I cared about popular I'd be one of those ditzhead chicks who giggles inanely about everything instead of using the brain I was born with.

You're welcome to believe whatever you want. Just don't get the idea that believing something earns you a seat at the table, it's not a participation award. I have plenty of ridiculous personal beliefs that I keep personal, where they belong.

Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Well, there's a whole subsection of people who think that every view that they hold is based on absolute fact, because "opinion" is a dirty word to them for some stupid reason.

I don't think that every idea I have is fact/gospel, but I do make a clear distinction between my personal beliefs and public policy.
Bahamut.Seekerstar said: »
Absolute facts can be explained scientifically and can be proven in the same way.

That just doesn't happen with what most people think/believe.

Opinions are like ***: everyone has one, sometimes they stink, but you have one hell of a time if you lack a good working one.

I happen to like *** at least they are honest !
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 Bismarck.Snprphnx
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By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2015-04-28 12:47:08
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Bahamut.Seekerstar said: »
Bismarck.Snprphnx said: »
This Pope has radically changed the Catholic Church since he was elected. Starting with his choosing his papal name of Francsis, he showed he would be focusing on servitude and simplicity. He opted to not live in the traditional Papal Housing, but in a guest residence in the Vatican, and when he walked out on the balcony after his election, he refused to wear the traditional Papal attire, and went with a simple white dressing. He has begun changing the Vatican Bank to be up to date with global banking standards, in an effort to be both more transparent and help eliminate corruption. He himself will officiate marriage ceremonies. This guy is different. He genuinely wants to clean up the Catholic Churches act and bring more followers in.

:s

You sound quite....sure of yourself here. Are you the Pope? Otherwise this is a mixture of a few facts and a lot more speculation.

Other than the last line stating he genuinely wants to change and bring people in, what part of what I said is speculative. It is a known fact that the Papal name that the elected Cardinal chooses will be an immediate display of what the new Popes direction will be. It is a fax he came out in just a plain white dressing. He has repeatedly left the Vatican at night to feed and serve the poop in the surrounding areas in Rome. He has chosen a small group of Cardinals from outside of the Vatican to essentially write a new "Roman Catholic Constitution". He created a new office to oversee changes to the Vatican banking to get it to international standards, which has irritated many of the older cardinals.
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