SE: "no Longer Need To Use Thief’s Knife" (eventually)

Anyone wanna take TH4+ or TH8+ ??

lol

Perfect^

People will definitely take the person with the highest TH! You're correct! Remember when people spent millions on Millionaire Desk cause they thought it gave you better luck? HA. Completely BS but people took that chance as will people take the person with the highest TH.

You're... missing the entire point. Obviously with all other things being equal, you'd rather take the higher amount of TH. But all other things are not equal, and the tiny - perhaps not even statistically significant - increase in drop rates from higher tiers of TH (beyond hitting the mob once in TH gear) is simply not enough of a benefit to make TPing in crappy TH weapons/gear worth it at the expense of better DD for most situations. (Nor is the benefit really worth it to worry much about getting another subpar THF knife that's still not going to be your best DD offhand in exchange for a near imperceptible increase in drop rate from a small chance of additional TH+ procs)

It's also not a choice about comparing a "person" to another person. None of the TH+ gear is particularly hard to get, so every geared THF has the same baseline TH value. If anything, if we're talking about comparing players and TH, I'm choosing (1) the THF who understands that maximizing TH at all costs is usually stupid, over (2) the THF who might get me an extra tier of TH proc because they fulltime gimpy TH gear.

People overpaying for Millionaire's Desk years ago proves nothing. I really don't believe that competent leaders these days truly do focus on bringing a THF to max out TH for events that matters (and the leaders who do are probably not leading groups I want to be in). The overall community's lack of care for max TH is evident from the fact that it's honestly pretty hard to convince groups to even bring a single THF to a non-farming event at the expense of a "better DD", and if they do it's highly likely that some of the other aspects of THF (Feint eva-, piercing damage, some additional enmity control, the actually significant increase from having TH6 versus TH0) are a bigger consideration than the tiny difference between base TH6~7 and THwhatever.

I have yet to meet a competent leader.

Sounds like your problem? There are plenty of people who know what they're doing. I don't waste my time playing to appeal to idiots. In fact, I like having ways to detect them so I can avoid wasting my time joining their crappy groups.

That being said, I wasn't under the impression that incompetent leaders were clamoring for THFs to join their events either. Whether they might believe in max TH or not, they're just going to invite the more typical "optimal" setup that probably isn't including a THF.

I'll take a few bounty shots and call it a day.

Which is just fine for the vast majority of content. Hence the ridiculousness of bad THFs begging for an upgraded Thief's Knife.

I believe thf5 is a great change from no th.

In some places, +1 th is worthwhile. In abysssea, its super effective. Its visible when i not equip dread, often seals drop in 3, single drops souls are more often also. With atma of dread, at least imo, or maybe just another psycological effect, but seems a lot common 2 drops of souls, and 4 seals drops.

Adoulin, on the other side, is the worst place for thfs. Nothing worthwhile to th, and all good drops works independently of th, like mega boss drops, with fixed slots.

Imo, if they want to fix that issue, best to first fix the relevance of treasure hunter. Every new content, TH is even less important, that seems like pointless they upgrade thiefs knife.

i bring a thf to everything that drops things effected by th and i fulltime all my th gear

if you're in a large group event, taking away 25-40% of a single sub-par DD's damage works out pretty small in the overall speed of the event(especially if they aren't buffed to begin with)

if you're solo/duo/whatever, it might be more worthwhile to use a damaging weapon, but that relies on you actually doing something after you finish the event quicker(or there being enough mobs you aren't waiting on repops, in the case of sustained farming)

too many people are up on their high horse thinking they're the only person who understands TH, the reality is that there are situations where max TH will be the best choice, and in those situations it'll be nice to not be offhanding a plastic bat

In which large group (i.e. alliance size) events, exactly, are you using THF and trying for max TH? I'm honestly curious. I really don't know which large events have much benefit from TH.

Main current content of all group sizes:

AA/Zilart high tier missions: If you bring a THF and you can kill easily enough that one of your DD slots' damage is not a big deal, you'd probably be better off doing higher difficulty fights (where your DD probably DOES matter) for much better drops. So unless your group is so good that you can beat VDs no sweat even with a gimped THF as one of your DDs, it's counterproductive to fulltime TH gear. (Also, with the common RNG strat you've already got some TH from repeated Bounty Shot attempts, making choosing a THF just to bring TH a pretty odd decision.)

SKCNM/Skirmish/WKR/WoE farming: not affected by TH at all.

Delve: TH is practically useless, doesn't it only affect airlixir drops off fodder mobs? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't affect armor/weapon/mega boss crafting mats, right? (Not even to get much into the fact that in some zones like Ceizak THF is a pretty damn good mega boss DD thanks to piercing)

ADL farming: Zerg fight means you don't have time to upgrade TH anyway. TH is quite nice for farming pops though - but with the speed at which mobs die, does smacking once with TH6 versus fulltiming TH7 really matter?

Dyna farming: It's pretty well settled that higher quantity of faster kills with TH6 = more money. Hit the thing once with your TH gear (no knife) and be done with it. If this is the reason people reeeealy want a Thief's Knife +1, that's kind of sad.

Salvage farming: If you really need a salvage armor drop, sure, TH away on the appropriate NM. It doesn't affect your boss Linen Coin Purse though, and please shoot me before suggesting slowing things down to maximize TH on single Alex mobs and waste more of my life in Salvage. TH6 is fine.

Voidwatch: Pretty irrelevant to get a fraction of an improvement on an already atrocious chest drop rate, plus most of the time you're probably not even engaged to the mob while waiting for procs then the mob dies instantly once you cap and the DDs zerg. But sure, keep your TH stuff on I guess? Very minor benefit.

Abyssea NMs: Not that this is hard content, but sure farm away with TH. Here's a good place to fulltime TH gear and get more plates/souls/empy weapon upgrade items. But I wouldn't really consider this a "serious event", it's lowman farming.

Legion: I will admit to being no expert since I've barely done the event (do people even regularly run Legion any more?), but (a) don't the mobs die too fast to make TH upgrading matter, and (b) does TH even help/are the drops even relevant (i.e. Arise/Meteor and Abj. drops aren't even affected by TH, right)?


I'm glad S-E doesn't seem to agree. They're basically saying here that crazy THFs just won't let it go even though Thief's Knife is ***, so they're going to force people to give it up by making it irrelevant through a TH gear cap. Bravo, S-E. They're helping you help yourself. An intervention.

Also, if I'm fighting something like KB/Tiamat/P.Warden where I truly do want max TH, I DO want a plastic bat to draw that fight out and have more TH+ proc chances. Give me gimpy Thief's Knife and NOT an ilevel decent weapon, please.

Yes.
Kinda weird you mention Meteor and Abjuration drops but don't mention Duplus Grip, an item that still goes for over 70 mil on some servers. Legion is just a good way for the members in your LS to make some easy cash. You should ask your "competent leader" about it.

meke new trial of the magian quests. for some old school classics, ie; Black belt, Optical Hat, Bounding/Leaping Boots (don't remember which drops from lizzie), empress hairpin, thief's knife etc;
1; upgraded item would replace old one, so no need to full time TH stuffs,
2; would ppl have to earn the original still to upgrade, so ppl would still need get those original items, then do upgrades,
3; could tie trials into RoE quests, ie; aready an roe for doing over valkurm emperor, would lend extra benefit to some old content,
4; in the case of thief's knife, after 'x' amount of progressively harder trials, idk maybe first trial gotta proc th 50 times, next trial get 'x' amount of rare drops etc etc, maybe 10 trials, final version ends up with TH+2, or dare I say +3,
5; would make use of some of that old school stuff we hang onto just for sake of nostalgia and make them more viable options still

or am I just hoping to much that SE would make use of potential of systems and gear that is already there

didn't read full thread, so apologies if someone already posted this. also, NINURTA'S SASH!

Thorny in morality days, Failure in volume days, Ironguy (several linkshells)

I'm sure there are many, many more, but those are the counterexamples that immediately spring to mind.

I would be safe to assert that an upgraded knife for farming would be the main reason people would want it.

Personally I think they should just let people augment it, or trade it in a quest for a better one and while doing so makes them ineligible to reget the original from the NM.

That being said, there's a lot of people that still think TH is a myth, so this discussion is going to be whack no matter what.

My guess is on SE using the af3 119 to solve the th issue.

After everyone getting Widescan, I wouldn't be surprised if they get rid of TH gear in the future and just give TH to everyone. Of course, they won't do this unless they decide to rehaul half the THF job abilities to make them competitive.

All jobs already have access to some form of TH without subbing /thf.

Do you mean inside of Abyssea?

I apologize but how does COR, DNC, DRK, DRG, NIN, SAM and WAR get TH without subbing /thf?

Not trying to troll - ty in advance for an answer.

Tarutaru Sash with Treasure Hunter +1 augment. i think is what he means.

Yes sir, but the 7 jobs I mentioned above aren't listed in the Tarutaru Sash.

Does he maybe mean Treasure Hound from Kupo Powers?

Trust NPCs maybe?

Perhaps that's what he meant, but then all jobs wouldn't have access to TH without /THF since you can't summon Nanaa Mihgo everywhere.

Yep, no leaders are smart because I forgot to cite a super rare item from an event I already said I don't do. Let's over-exaggerate the huge benefit of fulltiming TH7 gear in events based on one extremely rare item.

Nobody is arguing not to use all the TH you can for crazy rare drops or notably difficult/annoying to pop NMs. But for those situations, what would it really matter if your Thief's Knife has an extra DMG+70 and ilevel dagger skill? It's utterly irrelevant whether Thief's Knife could get a damage update for that use.

Pretty much, even Nanaa gives everyone TH1 now.

Can't summon Trust NPCs in the past.

EDIT: What if I’m DNC/NIN fighting amphiptere for hides. I wouldn’t get the benefit of Treasure Hound, Nanaa or Tarutaru Sash unless I /THF.

Bit late on the reply but Oynos doesn’t overwrite itself, surprised no one else already said. That doesn't mean that I don't want an ilvl version still I do, as swapping weapons out still resets tp and cancels aftermaths.

The best solution imo is a quest which requires something like a THF knife + Oynos + WKR dagger or something in reward you get a TH1 knife with Oynos effect with similar stats to the WKR dagger which would beat the Delve dagger only when you're benefitting from the haste.

Can someone link me to the topic on the ffxi forum so i can take part in talking about this feedback so i can ask a question or two.

Here you go