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Exenterator
By Peldin 2012-09-11 18:49:00
I'm fuzzy on the math so thought I'd ask... Are the Scopuli Nails better for SA Exenterator than AF3+2? Pretty sure it is but I wanted to confirm.
IE - is 10 dex better than 5 agi for SA -> Exenterator
Also, is there an easy way to compare those stats in general for this situation? What I mean is... Can you say X dex = Y agi for SA -> Exenterator?
Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-09-11 18:55:09
AGI is still better than DEX because the DEX bonus only applies to the first hit.
I don't really know which is better, though.
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-09-11 18:58:01
12 base damage (with AF3+2 hands multiplier) from 10 DEX on one hit vs 4.25 base damage from 5 AGI on all hits. 3+ hits and it's better, and you're DWing on a 4-hit WS so you've got 5 hits pre-multiattack. Between the two, AF3 for sure.
By Peldin 2012-09-11 20:22:58
Thanks man. That's exactly what I needed to know. Kinda off-topic, but is that 85% multiplier you used for AGI the standard for all merit weaponskills?
Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-09-11 20:29:46
it's applied to all mods on all WS
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-09-11 21:12:42
Thanks man. That's exactly what I needed to know. Kinda off-topic, but is that 85% multiplier you used for AGI the standard for all merit weaponskills? The WSC% for all 5/5 merit WS is 100%, but there's an additional multiplier we refer to as "alpha" applied to all weaponskills that takes your WSC and multiplies it by 85%. The result is the value that is actually added to your base damage.
By Peldin 2012-09-11 21:37:42
Gotcha.
Lol. Got Sylow for the quick, straight to the point answers, and Nightfyre for the explanations. You guys make a great team =P
[+]
Bismarck.Stani
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By Bismarck.Stani 2012-09-12 05:22:33
I did a breakdown of each stat's contribution to damage for SA Exen the other week, and came up with:
Quote: The damage contribution per stat at capped attack, before QA/TA/DA is
9.42 Main Weapon Damage + 2 Offhand Weapon Damage + 11.42fSTR + 9.707AGI + 4.104DEX
That doesn't take into account any critical attack bonus gear, or extra attacks from QA/TA/DA. A THF's extra attack rate will be quite large, making AGI, fSTR, and weapon damages more important than the above indicates. Extra attacks will also proportionally diminish the benefits of DEX and Critical Hit Damage because they don't improve extra swing damage. If you don't use AF3+2 Hands, the damage value of a poitnt of DEX is down to 3.42.
Factoring in my Exen set's QA/TA/DA rate, I come up with 3DEX:AGI for with AF3+2, or 3.6DEX:AGI without. No Critical Damage+ gear, only 14% from the trait.
By Peldin 2012-09-12 07:39:22
So unless I find some boots with +45 dex, I guess I'll stick with AF3+2 =D
(being facetious of course)
Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-09-12 07:55:40
Offhand damage has absolutely nothing to do with your WS damage. The "offhand" hit uses the damage of your main-hand.
Your numbers are also way off. Look at your contribution from fSTR (which basically equates to a 29% mod with a cap) compared to AGI (100% mod with no cap).
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-09-12 08:26:56
The "offhand" hit uses the damage of your main-hand. Pretty sure that's incorrect.
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-09-12 08:42:49
I could be wrong about that, but I stand by the fSTR/AGI part!
Bismarck.Stani
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By Bismarck.Stani 2012-09-12 09:07:36
Yes, fSTR is a large mod on this WS. In fact, it's better than AGI per point because it's counted every swing, and not multiplied by alpha. Too bad it takes 4~ STR to get an fSTR.
Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-09-12 09:15:31
It would be better to write it in terms of STR.
The "f" in fSTR refers to function (STR-VIT difference function)
You don't get an fSTR, you increase the value of fSTR by 1.
It's a semantic difference but if you're going to write mathematically ...
Bismarck.Stani
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By Bismarck.Stani 2012-09-12 09:27:52
I'm glad I left it fSTR, if I hadn't, people would think adding a point of STR meant a damn more than one time in four.
Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-09-12 09:54:45
Actually in practice, it does, because fSTR composes dSTR, a function of two independent variables.
Unless you're calculating the VIT of every target and adjusting your STR accordingly - a practice which I would fully support in theory.
Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2012-09-12 09:58:56
I could be wrong about that, but I stand by the fSTR/AGI part!
I think I remember some Mystic Boon testing that indirectly confirmed that.
Bismarck.Stani
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By Bismarck.Stani 2012-09-12 10:00:54
I'll be damned, is fSTR not floored?
Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-09-12 10:14:48
It's not "floored" in the sense that it's a discrete function and never takes non integer values.
But if you are fighting a target and dSTR=43, you're wasting 3 points of STR essentially. When you switch targets and the new one has one less VIT, the value of fSTR increases.
On paper we usually don't care about it because we assume constant VIT on targets, but in reality, target VIT varies and you can't just assume that dSTR is always divisible by 4.
Other important things to consider is that daggers cap out on fSTR very low. You'll never get more than 14 points of base damage from fSTR with a dagger, compared to the (likely) hundred+ you'll be getting fom AGI. You can add 4 STR for a guaranteed +1 or you can add 1 AGI for (usually) the same effect.
I stand by that the way your formula is written, the effects of STR appear to be inflated even if it's technically correct the way I've defined things.
Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-09-12 10:23:00
You can just not floor fSTR and this sufficiently expresses target variance in your average. (+3 STR will increase the value of fSTR 75% of the time ~ fSTR += 0.75)
Bismarck.Stani
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By Bismarck.Stani 2012-09-12 10:43:17
I'm not sure you get to call someone 'technically' correct when it's your own misinterpretation at fault.
Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-09-12 10:50:38
If I'm misinterpreting something, you'll probably want to be more clear.
Bismarck.Stani
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By Bismarck.Stani 2012-09-12 10:55:50
Not my problem if you don't see how one higher fSTR is better than a point of AGI on Exen.
Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-09-12 11:03:54
They're only different (in terms of adding one more) if your AGI divided by 20 has a remainder of 0 or 13.
Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-09-12 11:14:41
But no amount of modular arithmetic will explain why I'm wasting so much energy on a poor representation of a poor model based on poor assumptions.
Siren.Calnus
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By Siren.Calnus 2012-09-12 11:19:28
It excites me sexually when two people nerd out and fight over math on an internet forum.
By Peldin 2012-09-12 18:33:43
It excites me sexually when two people nerd out and fight over math on an internet forum. A great quote with a great avatar. Double lols to you, sir.
Shiva.Trixan
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By Shiva.Trixan 2012-09-23 20:45:30
Random question, if I'm main handing twashtar, should I be offhanding centovente, lux, evasion dagger, or asteria?
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By Siren.Thoraeon 2012-09-23 20:49:14
Str-Thokcha
Until you get that, Aluh Jambiya would probably be best/almost as good anyways.
(I am well aware that those are not the options given, but you should at least get Aluh Jambiya.)
Phoenix.Seshat
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By Phoenix.Seshat 2012-09-23 20:49:37
STR Thokcha.
Exenterator
Delivers a fourfold attack that decreases target's accuracy. Duration of effect varies with TP.
20~100% AGI mod
TP Multipliers: 1.0 at 100%
1.0 at 200%
1.0 at 300%
any thoughts?
taken from http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Exenterator
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