Which Prime Is Lining Up To Be Most Job Changing?

SMN is finally relevant!?!? 250 TP bonus, permanent warcry attack, weird buffs like Wind's Blessing or Shining Ruby, awkward debuffs, etc. Maaaaybe?!???

In all honestly I just haven't updated my set since i was doing this without a whm in the group! this was the set i put together for SAM COR BRD runs with nq auspice from brd/whm.

Also completely agree this isn't the ideal setup, sadly my OG sortie/aminon team have mostly left the game after the prime grind was announced, so we've been making it work. with so much of sortie being running, not having to lose chaos/sam between bosses is better QOL than warcry etc, even if its not optimum play. I think a PLD or RUN would be a nice 6th just to reduce the risks of things going wrong (valliance tellus for stuns etc)and would mean i wouldn't be spinning around like a mad man avoiding fetters on G.



have to do a initial "prep" run but its FGCBADEH, don't get tempted by roaming nms they'll suck your time! we only do botulus if times looking good, otherwise roll the dice with asylum at 50%

(also sorry for derailing the topic :D)

I had considered SMN as well however unless BPs can pull serious dmg in there I'm not sure it's worth it over having another main DD for 7/8 of the bosses

It would essentially give you a second, supercharged Asylum too though... Which honestly makes me want to try it.

I think you are missing the point. Question is what would be the best 6th job for setup where SAM is doing solo SC. I think just throwing a 2nd DD and making it regular Zerg setup is completely changing the idea.

Just assume you have new players without things like odyssey R15+, but you have SAM with almost everything. Ofc Naegling with R15 Nyame/Sakpata/Empy+3 could still pull massive damage with mighty strikes, but let's assume it's not an option.

SMN is definitely nice option too. On top of the advantages mentioned above it has another amazing thing for this setup, subtle blow II favor from Siren, which would let you reach capped 75%SB.

Dat fleet wind to help with haunted too

Yeah, sounds like I might be going that way. SMN like this is quite easy to build too and I have full su3+1 rusting on my main too.

Time to make it happen :)

I'm not missing the point, I'm making my own and I've stated it multiple times. The only boss where the solo SAM thing would actually be appreciably better than just having a 2nd DD is Gartell. There's no reason to need subtle blow and all that ***on any of the others, even with shitty dps (speaking from experience) Aita, Dhartok, and Triboulex die within 30-60 seconds. The point is having a 2nd DD for 7/8 NMs and having them sit back for Gartell gets you more time for extra activities like Naraka, Botulus, Naakuals, Aurum. Solo SAM is not a bad idea even for normal 8NM groups who struggle w/ Gartell because it reduces the load on the healer, tp feed, and generally removes points of failure.

Ok you are making your own point by arguing with other people discussing SAM solo 8NMs.

If you box or just trying to boost friends, 2nd DD might simply not be an option.

Also I have seen Aita being a problem with people using top geared DRK and WAR, so I will disagree that shitty DDs can handle it with easy. Unless you mean top geared SAM and shitty 2nd DD, but then I don't see the point of that 2nd DD, where it will do less damage than SAM skillchains.

I'm not arguing with anyone, if you think so you're being too sensitive. The statement was made that WAR would be good over a 2nd COR because Warcry could be used to buff during Gartell while they'd be able to fight on the other NMs. It was then asked which job would be best or better than WAR for the 6th slot in this kind of setup. I've provided 3 different jobs that could be better than or equal to WAR and would absolutely be better than a 2nd COR.

Not sure what your problem is but it definitely isn't me.

I can absolutely tell you that you can do Aita with shitty DDs because I practically solo carry that ***on SAM almost every time I've done a melee run. The dps would have to be so bad that you have no place even attempting Aita if 5 combined people can't beat my SAM alone. You can incidentally create skillchains on top of having everyone participate as long as you set up 2 sets of different weaponskills for Astral and Umbral element modes. Aita bottleneck isn't dps, it's the WHM. If you have a bad healer you're ***.

Once again, not a single person has stated what is absolutely the best. There have only been suggestions as to what could be used in the 6th slot.

DPS on Aita goes south if he start spamming fetters, because people need to reposition.

Also if WHM is the bottle neck, then it's WAY easier to handle curing one SAM, who will barely cause maybe 2 TP moves per fight with 75%SB (you can overcure with easy for cureskin to reduce tp feed even more). Not to mention we havent even talk about Mewing. You could probably reduce amount of TP moves to 1 or none. If your support not fighting, they can also be /whm (BRD and SMN at least), so they can help cure/erase/-na making it super easy.

Sometimes we 5 man our 8 boss runs with WAR COR BRD SMN GEO. SMN can stun lock ACDEG bosses with Ramuh, totally prevent Degei/Aita TP moves/fetters with Mewing Lullaby and pretty much trivializes Gartell with Perfect Defense/Conduit.

Is that with absolute best pet macc gear and/or a puppet's roll on the side too?

Agree with this completely. Tanking dps output for the entire run for one boss is silly unless there is no choice. Also, the kite method with a war or drk is just as viable as using a sam. If blowing 1 hr, I'd much rather save it for H where you are on a timer.

Back on topic, the GK is great but again, not job changing and no different then the polearm, GA, GS etc. The only change is to the savage blade meta for jobs that were part of it in the first place. Again, not job changing, just naegling killing which I appreciate.

Again we weren't compering to full DPS, that's the point that I think you are missing now. Liam wrote it very clearly:


We were only discussing what would be the best setup for that approach, not if that approach is better/faster than full engaged team of bis geared people. I understand Prothescar cherry picked idea of SAM solo only Gartell, but none really suggested that we discussed OUR scenario, because of that alone. We want to use SAM solo dps, because of other reasons (easier to execute while boxing, no 2nd DD available, undergeared friends etc.) and we tried to optimize 6th job around that idea.

And it's applicable to a discussion about picking Prime Weapons because it's a feature that makes the G.Kat more attractive as a pick. Nothing wrong with some solid thoughts on how to use the weapons outside of the optimal setups since not everyone has that.

Haven't tried it, but I wonder if the same case could be made for WAR solo. WAR can do Light (has always been able to) and/or Radiance, and with the prime Gaxe can do Gravitation/Darkness. Seen some very good WS/SC damage come from WAR, plus you get Savagery and their 1hrs are really strong.

I don't see why not. For Darkness you would probably need to do KJ > Steel Cyclone > Disaster and for Radiance Steel Cyclone > Upheaval > KJ > Upheaval

Disaster > KJ > Disaster works for avoiding the WS wall.

I do this often with war. Don't have prime GA but can skillchain with the brd or cor to make Darkness for B and F.

My opinion is war is the best solo DD but I say that mostly for ease holding hate on the botulus while to cor shreds it and over over all tankiness.

Upheaval > Savage > Upheaval is my goto for AECG with the cor or bar.

FYI - this is for rare days when our static is down a person and we can't find a replacement and is a last resort

Oh right! I guess Disaster > Upheaval > Disaster would be even better.

Nvm, I was looking at Fell Cleave. Im too tired after work XD Forum break until tomorrow XD

I haven't tried yet, but with SAM it should be pretty easy to just do Savage on COR from behind and then destroy Botulus with Tachi: Kagero. High/Super Jump if you pull hate or just Savage again on COR to pull hate back.

Good luck holding hate as /drg. I've seen Sam try this and it's not better then a warrior.

2 mumei followed by hobaku spam is more than enough to hold hate off of Leaden salute

My usual Botulus method is jinpu spam from behind with /drg and jumps to shed hate. Jinpu with prime will do 99k, just careful not to SC at start.

One of War/Drk/Trust holds hate from the front. Usually physical WS and JAs if a real human.

That works too. There's no world where an elemental or hybrid WS should pull hate off of even a couple of physical ones especially with high jump and super jump added in

I just really like tanking on SAM cause hobaku shuts it down and eliminates any risk of charm. Can also have someone do Flat Blade. Once the Botulus hits 40-50% I start doing Kagero from the front.

I think you need to reread this. I specifically wrote I dont want hate on SAM. COR can keep hate after one Savage from behind. SAM can probably do 2-3 strong hybrid WSs from behind then, before pulling hate, then COR can Savage again from behind to pull hate again and SAM can finish it off with few more hybrids.

You can also switch to polearm and stun it with Leg Sweep for probably 10 sec and during that time you can go behind it and do 2 strong Impulse Drive and then go in front and let COR GEO WHM finish it off from behind with volley of magic WSs, while you can keep an eye on Charm TP move and stun it with another Leg Sweep if necessary.

Disclaimer: I don't know what's the stun duration on Hobaku, so not sure if the same can be done with Great Katana. I know Leg Sweep stun duration is very long, almost as good as Sudden Lunge and Volt Strike. Also in case of strategy with SMN we were mentioning, you can simply stun it with volt strike and shock squall and zerg it from behind on SAM during the stun. None needs to keep hate from the front, its all about doing damage from the back. I have done that this way on BLU many times.

I go sam/war to sortie for utility over dps (again specifically in the scenario of solo engaged)

Provoke every boss/ botulus.
Berserk on ACD because why not. Aggressor/warcry on them all.

open with voke on botulus followed by a hobaku just after previous stun wears off keeps botulus focused on sam so cor can leaden from the back. stun isnt as long as other options but long enough to stop it TPing.

also @simonSes - Mumei > mumei > fudo was nice extra dmg, cheers for that!

You could/should also consider SAM/DRK over SAM/WAR.
-DA interferes with Zanhasso build
-LR = Berserk
-Stun + Souleater (cancel after) is more enmity than Provoke, and has some CE
-Desperate Blows can help cap attack speed if you're otherwise uncapped (slowed, buffs stolen, etc)
-Smite, PDL 3 (if ML30), Resist Paralyze, & higher attack bonus traits
-Spells to MB mobs for procs (if necessary or helpful)
-Stun + Weapon Bash for stuns as needed

Could you expand on the strat here a bit? I'd love to try running this as SMN. For E are you stun locking with just shock squall or also doing Volt Strike? We usually run with SAM so my concern would be killing their 4step

I second this.