Leviathan.Protey said: »
Teachers and administrators are there for instilling knowledge, not raising kids.
Providing a safe learning environment by keeping the kids in line is also a part of it
Parents Sue School Over Sons Suicide
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Parents sue school over sons suicide
Providing a safe learning environment by keeping the kids in line is also a part of it
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Asura.Floppyseconds said: » Yes, and while I agree with you. One can argue the school does assume a level of responsibility for the child. They certainly have that overreach nowadays when they feel like it so they can't exactly shy away from it in a case like this. That being said I really don't feel the need to place fault on anyone except the bullies AND the kid himself for the suicide. If we want to say who could have or maybe even should have prevented the suicide. Then you can blame the parents. Yes, direct fault is with the kid and bullies. The school is responsible for correcting unacceptable behaviors that they are made aware of, but not instituting preventative measures (otherwise they'd have to have every single kid go through psychological counseling all the time.... which is ridiculous). The parents are responsible for how their kids behave (the law has stated so... though there are incidents where the law has tried kids as adults). Caitsith.Mahayaya said: » Not a bad idea. Harvesting children for wealth. Shorter wait on returns and less risk than waiting for post retirement care gains. Loss of expenses while cashing in is nice too. They already do this with abortions during the stages of a woman's pregnancy it's disgusting and horrific. Siren.Lordgrim said: » Caitsith.Mahayaya said: » Not a bad idea. Harvesting children for wealth. Shorter wait on returns and less risk than waiting for post retirement care gains. Loss of expenses while cashing in is nice too. They already do this with abortions during the stages of a woman's pregnancy it's disgusting and horrific. Uh oh. Let's not get yet another round of abortion arguments going in a thread that has nothing to do with the topic.
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Bismarck.Dracondria said: » Leviathan.Protey said: » Teachers and administrators are there for instilling knowledge, not raising kids. Providing a safe learning environment by keeping the kids in line is also a part of it Which the school did. Schools don't provide full mental health services last time I checked. That's like saying a school isn't providing a safe environment because a girl develops body dysmorphia due to the other girls calling her fat. geigei said: » What happened to old classic go to school and shoot everyone? The very idea that one day I might go to class only to have one of my students taken from me terrifies me to no end. For some reason, I don't fear for my own life, but I'll be damned if I let anyone harm my students. The more I read stories about this, or hear about yet ANOTHER mass murder, the angrier and more frustrated I get. How much longer until this crap comes knocking at my door? ***.
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For a minute I thought this was the case in Ohio where a student commit suicide after being hounded and explicitly told that "he ruined his life" after being found with possession of marijuana. In which case some legal action might be justified if there was no charges pressed or conviction made.
But this seems to lack information on all sides so the parent's knee-jerk reaction to file a lawsuit seems misguided. However, that's not to say it is unwarranted if the school administration indeed failed to enforce policy to such an explicit and tragic point. Bismarck.Magnuss said: » geigei said: » What happened to old classic go to school and shoot everyone? The very idea that one day I might go to class only to have one of my students taken from me terrifies me to no end. For some reason, I don't fear for my own life, but I'll be damned if I let anyone harm my students. The more I read stories about this, or hear about yet ANOTHER mass murder, the angrier and more frustrated I get. How much longer until this crap comes knocking at my door? ***. A person is made up of three areas: the mind, the body, and the heart. Unfortunately the heart has been greatly diminished in our populace over the last 50 years. It's become all about me, me, me. As such there is a void in a lot of people and without that heart to guide them to do what is right, they are acting out harming others. If you want to get this fixed, the spirituality of people needs to be raised. There needs to be balance.
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Leviathan.Protey said: » Bismarck.Magnuss said: » geigei said: » What happened to old classic go to school and shoot everyone? The very idea that one day I might go to class only to have one of my students taken from me terrifies me to no end. For some reason, I don't fear for my own life, but I'll be damned if I let anyone harm my students. The more I read stories about this, or hear about yet ANOTHER mass murder, the angrier and more frustrated I get. How much longer until this crap comes knocking at my door? ***. A person is made up of three areas: the mind, the body, and the heart. Unfortunately the heart has been greatly diminished in our populace over the last 50 years. It's become all about me, me, me. As such there is a void in a lot of people and without that heart to guide them to do what is right, they are acting out harming others. If you want to get this fixed, the spirituality of people needs to be raised. There needs to be balance. Well said protay I agree. Today the United States of America has lost it's morality we have been so desensitized by our mainstream media that you see and hear it's astonishing. To see how in the past things like spirituality was first the most important thing 2nd was family and 3rd was pride in the nation as a whole. We need to bring back morals to this nation. Asura.Floppyseconds said: » geigei said: » What happened to old classic go to school and shoot everyone? *Watches the outrage to this joke* Well, perhaps it is just a matter of feeling somethings are off limits to joke about. Not quite seeking to make it a topic, but personally I can appreciate ridiculous, tasteless, or dark humor. So the answer to your question is.. I like to think that making jokes of dark or morbid subject matters is a valid method of humor, as it essentially displays how absurd and ludicrous these things are in their very nature. Though I will say, time, place, and manner are all important factors to take into consideration when delivering your punch-line.
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When I look at this story and work out who's at fault, I think the school is very low down on the list.
1) The bullies: Sure I could throw the blame squarly at the bullies but I don't really know the extent of their bullying, you can look at it and say the kid killed himself because of it but for all we know he was already in a bad place and that was just the final straw. I have been bullied and most bullies just target your insecurities to make themselves feel better, it sucks but in most cases they aren't these evil monsters, just kids who are making a bad choice and will probably look back in shame at their behaviour when they are older, unless they were truly torturing the kid and getting pleasure out of it, his suicide is going to stick with them forever and I really feel sorry for them in that respect. 2) The school, ok they're suing the school but as has been previously mentioned, they have so many students to watch over that one incident of being bullied can go under the radar, if they can spot it, awesome but I know when I was bullied I didn't inform any teacher of it, probably out of fear of reprisal, I don't believe the school was ever aware it happened. 3) The parents, my biggest target of blame, there is no way the kid wasn't showing signs of being bullied, kids are very bad at hiding it, I know my mum picked up on my bullying pretty quickly. I think they're suing the school because they want to shift the blame in order to help deal with their grief knowing they failed to pick up on the signs that could save their son's life. A big final note to yet again the big subject of gun ownership, I could have added this as another blame towards the parents, which it is but if he really wanted to kill himself, he could do it without a gun. The problem I see is that a gun is the most efficient way to commit suicide, point at your head and pull the trigger, done, sure there would be some hesitation but knowing you'll die pain free has to make it easier. After the latest mass shooting I went around looking at facts and figures about gun deaths, there was of course the comparison with deaths by terrorism that Obama asked for but suicides account for the most gun deaths, last year they outnumbered homicides 2 to 1. I'm very much for gun safety laws but I know as a British person my views aren't taken seriously since I grew up in a nation with strict gun control, which only happened after 1 mass shooting incident, same as Australia but all the signs are pointing towards a real push towards gun controls, the Democrats in particular are really pushing the issue and I do hope they succeed. On a serious note, parents are the only to blame, there is no way someone suicide just because bullies, kid had issues, probably abused at home by his own parents.
Cerberus.Tidis said: » When I look at this story and work out who's at fault, I think the school is very low down on the list. 1) The bullies: Sure I could throw the blame squarly at the bullies but I don't really know the extent of their bullying, you can look at it and say the kid killed himself because of it but for all we know he was already in a bad place and that was just the final straw. I have been bullied and most bullies just target your insecurities to make themselves feel better, it sucks but in most cases they aren't these evil monsters, just kids who are making a bad choice and will probably look back in shame at their behaviour when they are older, unless they were truly torturing the kid and getting pleasure out of it, his suicide is going to stick with them forever and I really feel sorry for them in that respect. 2) The school, ok they're suing the school but as has been previously mentioned, they have so many students to watch over that one incident of being bullied can go under the radar, if they can spot it, awesome but I know when I was bullied I didn't inform any teacher of it, probably out of fear of reprisal, I don't believe the school was ever aware it happened. 3) The parents, my biggest target of blame, there is no way the kid wasn't showing signs of being bullied, kids are very bad at hiding it, I know my mum picked up on my bullying pretty quickly. I think they're suing the school because they want to shift the blame in order to help deal with their grief knowing they failed to pick up on the signs that could save their son's life. A big final note to yet again the big subject of gun ownership, I could have added this as another blame towards the parents, which it is but if he really wanted to kill himself, he could do it without a gun. The problem I see is that a gun is the most efficient way to commit suicide, point at your head and pull the trigger, done, sure there would be some hesitation but knowing you'll die pain free has to make it easier. After the latest mass shooting I went around looking at facts and figures about gun deaths, there was of course the comparison with deaths by terrorism that Obama asked for but suicides account for the most gun deaths, last year they outnumbered homicides 2 to 1. I'm very much for gun safety laws but I know as a British person my views aren't taken seriously since I grew up in a nation with strict gun control, which only happened after 1 mass shooting incident, same as Australia but all the signs are pointing towards a real push towards gun controls, the Democrats in particular are really pushing the issue and I do hope they succeed. Weapons do not kill people, people kill people. Even if weapons were to be made illegal, there would still be criminals that obtain weapons. And when they break into your house, you will just be easy prey. The government can have my weapon over my cold dead body.
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Leviathan.Protey said: » Cerberus.Tidis said: » When I look at this story and work out who's at fault, I think the school is very low down on the list. 1) The bullies: Sure I could throw the blame squarly at the bullies but I don't really know the extent of their bullying, you can look at it and say the kid killed himself because of it but for all we know he was already in a bad place and that was just the final straw. I have been bullied and most bullies just target your insecurities to make themselves feel better, it sucks but in most cases they aren't these evil monsters, just kids who are making a bad choice and will probably look back in shame at their behaviour when they are older, unless they were truly torturing the kid and getting pleasure out of it, his suicide is going to stick with them forever and I really feel sorry for them in that respect. 2) The school, ok they're suing the school but as has been previously mentioned, they have so many students to watch over that one incident of being bullied can go under the radar, if they can spot it, awesome but I know when I was bullied I didn't inform any teacher of it, probably out of fear of reprisal, I don't believe the school was ever aware it happened. 3) The parents, my biggest target of blame, there is no way the kid wasn't showing signs of being bullied, kids are very bad at hiding it, I know my mum picked up on my bullying pretty quickly. I think they're suing the school because they want to shift the blame in order to help deal with their grief knowing they failed to pick up on the signs that could save their son's life. A big final note to yet again the big subject of gun ownership, I could have added this as another blame towards the parents, which it is but if he really wanted to kill himself, he could do it without a gun. The problem I see is that a gun is the most efficient way to commit suicide, point at your head and pull the trigger, done, sure there would be some hesitation but knowing you'll die pain free has to make it easier. After the latest mass shooting I went around looking at facts and figures about gun deaths, there was of course the comparison with deaths by terrorism that Obama asked for but suicides account for the most gun deaths, last year they outnumbered homicides 2 to 1. I'm very much for gun safety laws but I know as a British person my views aren't taken seriously since I grew up in a nation with strict gun control, which only happened after 1 mass shooting incident, same as Australia but all the signs are pointing towards a real push towards gun controls, the Democrats in particular are really pushing the issue and I do hope they succeed. Weapons do not kill people, people kill people. Even if weapons were to be made illegal, there would still be criminals that obtain weapons. And when they break into your house, you will just be easy prey. The government can have my weapon over my cold dead body. We stand united with this fundamental right to defend our life and liberty. Well said again protey Cerberus.Tidis said: » When I look at this story and work out who's at fault, I think the school is very low down on the list. 1) The bullies: Sure I could throw the blame squarly at the bullies but I don't really know the extent of their bullying, you can look at it and say the kid killed himself because of it but for all we know he was already in a bad place and that was just the final straw. I have been bullied and most bullies just target your insecurities to make themselves feel better, it sucks but in most cases they aren't these evil monsters, just kids who are making a bad choice and will probably look back in shame at their behaviour when they are older, unless they were truly torturing the kid and getting pleasure out of it, his suicide is going to stick with them forever and I really feel sorry for them in that respect. 2) The school, ok they're suing the school but as has been previously mentioned, they have so many students to watch over that one incident of being bullied can go under the radar, if they can spot it, awesome but I know when I was bullied I didn't inform any teacher of it, probably out of fear of reprisal, I don't believe the school was ever aware it happened. 3) The parents, my biggest target of blame, there is no way the kid wasn't showing signs of being bullied, kids are very bad at hiding it, I know my mum picked up on my bullying pretty quickly. I think they're suing the school because they want to shift the blame in order to help deal with their grief knowing they failed to pick up on the signs that could save their son's life. A big final note to yet again the big subject of gun ownership, I could have added this as another blame towards the parents, which it is but if he really wanted to kill himself, he could do it without a gun. The problem I see is that a gun is the most efficient way to commit suicide, point at your head and pull the trigger, done, sure there would be some hesitation but knowing you'll die pain free has to make it easier. After the latest mass shooting I went around looking at facts and figures about gun deaths, there was of course the comparison with deaths by terrorism that Obama asked for but suicides account for the most gun deaths, last year they outnumbered homicides 2 to 1. I'm very much for gun safety laws but I know as a British person my views aren't taken seriously since I grew up in a nation with strict gun control, which only happened after 1 mass shooting incident, same as Australia but all the signs are pointing towards a real push towards gun controls, the Democrats in particular are really pushing the issue and I do hope they succeed. Thank you tidus for sharing the suicide to homicide ratio. To add to this for someone to think about ending there life they personally gave up on themselves with the depression they had. To them they did not see a future for themselves to contribute to society they live in. I would not personally put the blame on the school but instead put the blame on the government that controls the education and economic situation we all face each day of our own lives. Government is to blame for society's failures. I'm not saying end all governments but instead change them. Asura.Floppyseconds said: » nyheen said: » Bismarck.Dracondria said: » nyheen said: » i want to know how did that 14 year old get the gun so easy? no lock on it? no safe case etc?. no one blaming him?, yes it true bullies had a big part in it. but having a gun under the bed wont help his case Try reading the article next time Odin.Godofgods said: » The day Lamar shot himself, his father mistakenly grabbed his wife's keys when he left the house — leaving the key to the gun box at home. so how does that help any more? that just saying his father, knowing he got a deadly weapon in the house, carelessly leave his keys to the gun case in the house with kids, something like that you have to be more careful with, Well I imagine they didn't want to lose them so they kept them with all their other keys. Less they leave them in the house somewhere. The Teachers are not doing their job's right if they did there would be less bullying or no bullying at all so yes blame the school not the father's gun. Asura.Floppyseconds said: » geigei said: » On a serious note, parents are the only to blame, there is no way someone suicide just because bullies, kid had issues, probably abused at home by his own parents. Come on, don't be dumb now. 6 milion children are abused every year, 20% of those are sexual, i hope you were being sarcastic. Chriscoffey said: » Kind of ironic 100% of the people enjoyed the benefits of liberty and justice over the bloodshed of the few that believed in them. I wonder which % wants rights taken away so quickly from whom? Probably 0 as they're all dead. Chriscoffey said: » Here’s a very important set of facts about the Revolutionary War that every person who would call themselves an American should know. During the Revolutionary War, only THREE percent of the people actually fought against Great Britain. Only TEN percent of the citizens actively supported that three percent. Approximately TWENTY percent considered themselves to be on the side of the Revolution, but they did not actively participate. Towards the climatic end of the war, approximately THIRTY percent actually fought on the side of the British. The rest of the citizens had no disposition either way. They didn’t care. They didn’t want anything to do with what they deemed to simply be a political issue. /readingrainbow Kind of ironic 100% of the people enjoyed the benefits of liberty and justice over the bloodshed of the few that believed in them. I wonder which % wants rights taken away so quickly from whom? Well said and nice to meet you. Citizens can look no further than the declaration of independence where it charges it is the citizens right and civic duty to Abolish the government that commits on going injustice that prevents there right to life and liberty. We are told to remake the government to safeguard these rights which are the Bill of Rights. We can change the government peacefully through elections or violently through revolution. Tyranny will not relinquish it's control unwillingly. geigei said: » Asura.Floppyseconds said: » geigei said: » On a serious note, parents are the only to blame, there is no way someone suicide just because bullies, kid had issues, probably abused at home by his own parents. Come on, don't be dumb now. 6 milion children are abused every year, 20% of those are sexual, i hope you were being sarcastic. Yes, kids do kill themselves over bullying. Just cause you, or someone you know didn't it doesn't mean anything. Teenage years are characterized by a violent hormonal turmoil, and thus such things can have extremely heavy impact that can last a lifetime influencing permanently the behaviour and perceptions of the person. Moreover, not everyone has the same internal biochemical reactions and rebalancing. To some it becomes major depression and balls aren't enough for that. It's fine to be angry at someone who suicides, cause they could have sought help and fight through, but it's not fine to ridicule it like someone did in the past pages. So yeah, bullying can lead to suicide.
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There is no proof he shot himself because bullied either, what's your point? The parents said he did so, no suicide note, why would i believe them?
Siren.Lordgrim said: » Chriscoffey said: » Here’s a very important set of facts about the Revolutionary War that every person who would call themselves an American should know. During the Revolutionary War, only THREE percent of the people actually fought against Great Britain. Only TEN percent of the citizens actively supported that three percent. Approximately TWENTY percent considered themselves to be on the side of the Revolution, but they did not actively participate. Towards the climatic end of the war, approximately THIRTY percent actually fought on the side of the British. The rest of the citizens had no disposition either way. They didn’t care. They didn’t want anything to do with what they deemed to simply be a political issue. /readingrainbow Kind of ironic 100% of the people enjoyed the benefits of liberty and justice over the bloodshed of the few that believed in them. I wonder which % wants rights taken away so quickly from whom? Well said and nice to meet you. Citizens can look no further than the declaration of independence where it charges it is the citizens right and civic duty to Abolish the government that commits on going injustice that prevents there right to life and liberty. We are told to remake the government to safeguard these rights which are the Bill of Rights. We can change the government peacefully through elections or violently through revolution. Tyranny will not relinquish it's control unwillingly. Yet, if you form a group with the intent on opposing the current system, either peacefully through elections, or violently through revolution, the standing government will do anything in its power, legally and sometimes illegally, to stop you. To play devils Advocate for a moment. Taking the fathers firearm out of this, what if the kid just got his fathers car keys, drove to school with no seatbelt on, and sped into the side of the school, killing himself, but no one else. Would you still point a finger at the father? He left the keys available to his son. A car can be used to harm someone if the intent is there. Should we all, as parents, start locking up our car keys in a lock box? Or our kitchen knives? Small electrical appliances, since he could have drawn a bath and dropped something in that's plugged in to a non-GFCI outlet? I guess is what I am asking is, at what point do we set the bar and determine that we have done due diligence to prevent our children from harming themselves or others? |
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