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15 questions for the evolutionists of AH.com
Bismarck.Dubai
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By Bismarck.Dubai 2014-09-22 04:27:54
Asura.Refreshazure said: »so either this was a great troll or someone is butthurt that people believe in evolution.
evolution exists with or without God. It neither disproves or proves the existence. Using anything in this world to prove God exists or to cause people to believe in Him is not the right way and it wont work.
If you could prove the existence of God then people wouldnt need faith.
I like how people take ridiculous religious blog writings and think they are great tools to use in the fight against the non-believers. Go home 'kool' jack you're drunk.
Actually evolution and can be use as a fact that the Christian deity is such a freak bad designer can be a very strong argument( one of many) against the Christian deity.
why did he make humans with such bad design. he's a all-knowing deity of the universe yet he creates a creature in his own image that with decaying cells easy to destroy internal organs a very messed up skeletal system no wings horrible eyesight we eat the same spot we take in air we also released waste near our sexual organs which can cause all sorts of infections.
most humans are not even intelligent enough to know what I'm implying reached a higher level of cognitive thought in order to think about it That is also bed design.
and I'm not insulting them I'm just asking them to think.
blind watchmaker http://uath.org/download/literature/Richard.Dawkins.The.Blind.Watchmaker.pdf
going to relink the rational wiki just in case some of you are coming even close to thinking like Kooljack.
Here are the answers to his 15 insane questions.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Question_Evolution
edit: I think Kooljack left thinking he stumped us with his creationist ministries list. . he probably relieving himself of future possible people existences.
it not any fun if they immediately run away
I'm guessing you would prefer your p*n*s in the place of your nose and your eyes on the back of your head? lol
In my opinion, I would say our design as humans, whether anyone believes in God or not is quite great.
Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-09-22 04:29:36
Because creating a fully-functional model isn't the point. Unfortunately, practically all mainstream religions do a really bad job of explaining why we need to go through a state of imperfection and mortality to begin with, so I can't blame people for not understanding. That's convenient.
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Siren.Sieha
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By Siren.Sieha 2014-09-22 04:31:41
Asura.Refreshazure said: »Actually evolution and can be use as a fact that the Christian deity is such a freak bad designer can be a very strong argument( one of many) against the Christian deity.
yes and no. The original theory of evolution had nothing to do with man coming from apes. It was about species adapting to its changing environment.
creating life forms that can change and adapt is pretty smart, specially if you dont want to have to baby sit them every time the planet gets closer to the sun.
talking from a biblical stand point, humans used to live for many hundreds of years. Why do they not now, probably global warming or Illuminati. If we didnt break down then there would be no reason for procreation and/or we would over populate quicker then we are now.
Why are humans like they are? who knows. (biblical answer, no one can understand the plan of God.)
End the end I am not saying either way is right, only that it can go both ways. this is because the art of arguing is based on making whatever a person thinks, sound logical and work within their beliefs. It doesnt matter if its right or wrong.
Good example: lets take the wings thing. God made man in his own image, the angels were not made in his image, therefore God doesnt have wings so we dont either. (again dont get me wrong, I am just making this up.)
Each person has their reason to believe or not believe in God. That is their business, and its none of anyone else. Trying to make people believe is just stupid, even in the Bible it says sow the seed not force it down their throat. when it becomes an argument, peoples feelings get hurt and they defend their thought which leads to threads like this.
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Siren.Sieha
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By Siren.Sieha 2014-09-22 04:34:24
Because creating a fully-functional model isn't the point. Unfortunately, practically all mainstream religions do a really bad job of explaining why we need to go through a state of imperfection and mortality to begin with, so I can't blame people for not understanding. That's convenient.
Its also very convenient that God doesnt exist. What if he does? What if everything people have been saying is true. That would be very inconvenient. (again not saying anything specifically but just pointing out that it works both ways)
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Bismarck.Dubai
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By Bismarck.Dubai 2014-09-22 04:37:08
Because creating a fully-functional model isn't the point. Unfortunately, practically all mainstream religions do a really bad job of explaining why we need to go through a state of imperfection and mortality to begin with, so I can't blame people for not understanding. That's convenient.
Its also very convenient that God doesnt exist. What if he does? What if everything people have been saying is true. That would be very inconvenient. (again not saying anything specifically but just pointing out that it works both ways)
"To each his own".
Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-09-22 04:45:51
Because creating a fully-functional model isn't the point. Unfortunately, practically all mainstream religions do a really bad job of explaining why we need to go through a state of imperfection and mortality to begin with, so I can't blame people for not understanding. That's convenient.
Its also very convenient that God doesnt exist. What if he does? What if everything people have been saying is true. That would be very inconvenient. (again not saying anything specifically but just pointing out that it works both ways) It actually wouldn't be inconvenient at all. No recorded phenomena as of yet require or are contingent upon divine intervention. But I do appreciate your previous post. I don't believe I've seen creationism presented that way.
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By Asura.Ackeronll 2014-09-22 04:45:53
Asura.Refreshazure said: »
this is the clam made in the bible .
Perfect Title for a porno.
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-22 04:47:36
I will say this: The "take my word for it" mentality that so many religions (and sometimes even science) rely on is absolutely deplorable. Whether there is or isn't a god, people really need to take the time to consider the possibility that whatever conclusion they've come to could be wrong. Explore all the possibilities, and think. Complacency is not your friend.
Asura.Ccl
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-09-22 04:50:19
I see more hate from evolutionist than creationist on this thread!(btw you can be both(or not believe in both)so I should have said more hate from "anti creationist than pro creationist!)
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Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-22 04:50:26
Asura.Refreshazure said: »adam and eve where made perfect in god image it says right there in the book and is preach all the time.
Yeah, your arguments need work. You haven't even considered the idea that many religions have that their fall is what brought about the imperfections of the human race.
Edit: Also, point out where it says they were perfect in the first place. You don't find that in the KJV.
Cerberus.Tidis
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By Cerberus.Tidis 2014-09-22 04:58:27
I have 0 problem with religion being taught in schools, at school we had a compulsory subject called religious education, religion is a major part of the world and we should be educated on the major religions.
My only criticism of it was that it was very Christianity focusses, understandable in a sense as it is the major religion in the UK but I think it would have been beneficial to hear more about the other major religions.
I got an A in my Religious Education GCSE as well so now I can big up my CV with 10 A-C grades thanks to that solitary A.
What religion has no place in, is a science class, especially when it comes to explaining the concept of evolution, they contradict eachother.
Anyway if it isn't obvious yet, I'm atheist and I very much reject all religions as nonsense, my biggest criticism being that when in science something can't be explained, we say we don't know but we want to find out, whereas religious people historically have said, we don't know, therefore God.
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-22 05:00:20
Asura.Refreshazure said: »Asura.Refreshazure said: »adam and eve where made perfect in god image it says right there in the book and is preach all the time.
Yeah, your arguments need work. You haven't even considered the idea that many religions have that their fall is what brought about the imperfections of the human race.
i just pointed out multi times i was talking about christian and islam god plz read and not try to https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman
any way here have more alt history.
http://www.conservapedia.com/Mystery:Why_Do_Non-Conservatives_Exist%3F
I was talking about Christianity, genius. Can you even cite your claim or is that too much to ask? You're making a fool of yourself. Also, you can't try to claim I'm using a strawman and then throw conservapedia articles at me as if I actually read that trash. Try harder.
Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-09-22 05:00:54
If you came here for a thoughtful analysis of the subject matter with people who treat others with respect despite having differing opinions, you're in the wrong forums. I disagree with this. While it's not true to everyone, there are still many posters who are willing, and will have constructive conversations.
The problem here is Kooljack.
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-22 05:02:36
If you came here for a thoughtful analysis of the subject matter with people who treat others with respect despite having differing opinions, you're in the wrong forums. I disagree with this. While it's not true to everyone, there are still many posters who are willing, and will have constructive conversations.
The problem here is Kooljack.
If you think the only problem here is Kooljack, you're either very biased or not paying attention. The problem is that the ones willing to have constructive conversations aren't the ones with huge post counts who typically fill up the pages.
Edit: I wasn't necessarily referring to you at the end there.
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Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-22 05:09:53
There isn't a complete sentence in that entire post.
Edit: If English isn't your first language, that's fine, but I can't even respond to that as is.
Cerberus.Tidis
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By Cerberus.Tidis 2014-09-22 05:15:56
There isn't a complete sentence in that entire post.
Edit: If English isn't your first language, that's fine, but I can't even respond to that as is. Ad hominem.
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-22 05:17:33
Okay, now that you've edited a tad, I guess I can make out your argument.
Counter-argument: If faith is part of the test, how much sense would it make to leave behind absolute proof of anything miraculous that would serve as proof of God's existence? Is an omnipotent god incapable of hiding evidence from us morons on earth? I know that's "convenient", but people don't seem to consider that possibility often.
There isn't a complete sentence in that entire post.
Edit: If English isn't your first language, that's fine, but I can't even respond to that as is. Ad hominem.
Wasn't meant to be, I honestly didn't have a clue what was being said.
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-22 05:22:24
See my previous argument. You're making the claim that if there isn't evidence, it didn't happen. If an omnipotent being doesn't want there to be evidence, there won't be.
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-22 05:28:16
Asura.Refreshazure said: »See my previous argument. You're making the claim that if there isn't evidence, it didn't happen. If an omnipotent being doesn't want there to be evidence, there won't be.
How convenient.. This is why faith is so messed up instead of looking at the actual evidence you just go well God could just do this instead.
I don't do things that way, I was just countering your argument. If I don't have proof of something, I attribute it to nothing and consider the possibilities.
I did say before that it was "convenient" that there is no scientific proof, but again, a lack of proof does not disqualify the existence of anything.
Asura.Refreshazure said: »but Johnny created multiple Rainbows over Israel and all the Middle East he just hid the evidence afterwards.
You can't disprove it because faith
I'm not necessarily saying that. There is evidence of floods that have occurred in the supposed time frame of Noah's Ark, though we went over that in a different thread and I'm not going there again. I'm just saying it makes no sense for there to be proof of a miracle if faith is required.
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-22 05:34:01
Asura.Refreshazure said: »and were pretty sure the flood and Adam and Eve and the history of the Middle East that claim to happen in the Bible pretty much didn't happen.
"Pretty sure". Well, I'm absolutely sure to change the way I think because people somewhere are "pretty sure" it didn't happen. You know, uncited people from uncited studies using uncited scientific methods.
Asura.Refreshazure said: »So if the events where the Christian God appeared did not happen then why should we believe the Christian God exist what evidence is there?
Because you don't know they didn't happen. Good luck proving it. Next topic.
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-22 05:37:09
Asura.Refreshazure said: »Quote: I'm not necessarily saying that. There is evidence of floods that have occurred in the supposed time frame of Noah's Ark, though we went over that in a different thread and I'm not going there again. I'm just saying it makes no sense for there to be proof of a miracle if faith is required.
Well it appears are conversations is over you seem to be out of touch with physical reality so therefore there is no way I can have a rational debate anymore. if for not even talking the same Physical history vs imaginary history.
No, you just suck at debating. I'm not trying to convince you of anything or even prove anything. You're the one trying to prove something and you're failing. By the way, of the two of us, only one of us is an actual scientist. Guess which one of us that is. If you're done, good day then.
Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-09-22 05:40:49
If you think the only problem here is Kooljack, you're either very biased or not paying attention I didn't say he's the only problem on the forum. I'm aware there are people who are on the same side as me on many topics, but are absolutely horrible to argue with.
But this whole thing was started by Kooljack and seemed to turn into a "war on Kooljack". The fact is it really isn't. The guy is just beyond reasoning for anyone to connect with him.
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1.) How did life originate? Evolutionist Professor Paul Davies admitted, “Nobody knows how a mixture of lifeless chemicals spontaneously organized themselves into the first living cell.”1 Andrew Knoll, professor of biology, Harvard, said, “we don’t really know how life originated on this planet”.2 A minimal cell needs several hundred proteins. Even if every atom in the universe were an experiment with all the correct amino acids present for every possible molecular vibration in the supposed evolutionary age of the universe, not even one average-sized functional protein would form. So how did life with hundreds of proteins originate just by chemistry without intelligent design?
2.) How did the DNA code originate? The code is a sophisticated language system with letters and words where the meaning of the words is unrelated to the chemical properties of the letters—just as the information on this page is not a product of the chemical properties of the ink (or pixels on a screen). What other coding system has existed without intelligent design? How did the DNA coding system arise without it being created?
3.) How could mutations—accidental copying mistakes (DNA ‘letters’ exchanged, deleted or added, genes duplicated, chromosome inversions, etc.)—create the huge volumes of information in the DNA of living things? How could such errors create 3 billion letters of DNA information to change a microbe into a microbiologist? There is information for how to make proteins but also for controlling their use—much like a cookbook contains the ingredients as well as the instructions for how and when to use them. One without the other is useless. See: Meta-information: An impossible conundrum for evolution. Mutations are known for their destructive effects, including over 1,000 human diseases such as hemophilia. Rarely are they even helpful. But how can scrambling existing DNA information create a new biochemical pathway or nano-machines with many components, to make ‘goo-to-you’ evolution possible? E.g., How did a 32-component rotary motor like ATP synthase (which produces the energy currency, ATP, for all life), or robots like kinesin (a ‘postman’ delivering parcels inside cells) originate?
4.) Why is natural selection, a principle recognized by creationists, taught as ‘evolution’, as if it explains the origin of the diversity of life? By definition it is a selective process (selecting from already existing information), so is not a creative process. It might explain the survival of the fittest (why certain genes benefit creatures more in certain environments), but not the arrival of the fittest (where the genes and creatures came from in the first place). The death of individuals not adapted to an environment and the survival of those that are suited does not explain the origin of the traits that make an organism adapted to an environment. E.g., how do minor back-and-forth variations in finch beaks explain the origin of beaks or finches? How does natural selection explain goo-to-you evolution?
5.) How did new biochemical pathways, which involve multiple enzymes working together in sequence, originate? (This video simply explains the concept of a short biochemical pathway.) Every pathway and nano-machine requires multiple protein/enzyme components to work. How did lucky accidents create even one of the components, let alone 10 or 20 or 30 at the same time, often in a necessary programmed sequence. Evolutionary biochemist Franklin Harold wrote, “we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical or cellular system, only a variety of wishful speculations.”3
6.) Living things look like they were designed, so how do evolutionists know that they were not designed? Richard Dawkins wrote, “biology is the study of complicated things that have the appearance of having been designed with a purpose.”4 Francis Crick, the co-discoverer of the double helix structure of DNA, wrote, “Biologists must constantly keep in mind that what they see was not designed, but rather evolved.”5 The problem for evolutionists is that living things show too much design. Who objects when an archaeologist says that pottery points to human design? Yet if someone attributes the design in living things to a designer, that is not acceptable. Why should science be restricted to naturalistic causes rather than logical causes?
7.) How did multi-cellular life originate? How did cells adapted to individual survival ‘learn’ to cooperate and specialize (including undergoing programmed cell death) to create complex plants and animals?
8.) How did sex originate? Asexual reproduction gives up to twice as much reproductive success (‘fitness’) for the same resources as sexual reproduction, so how could the latter ever gain enough advantage to be selected? And how could mere physics and chemistry invent the complementary apparatuses needed at the same time (non-intelligent processes cannot plan for future coordination of male and female organs).
9.) Why are the (expected) countless millions of transitional fossils missing? Darwin noted the problem and it still remains. The evolutionary family trees in textbooks are based on imagination, not fossil evidence. Famous Harvard paleontologist (and evolutionist), Stephen Jay Gould, wrote, “The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persists as the trade secret of paleontology”.6 Other evolutionist fossil experts also acknowledge the problem.
10.) How do ‘living fossils’ remain unchanged over supposed hundreds of millions of years, if evolution has changed worms into humans in the same time frame? Professor Gould wrote, “the maintenance of stability within species must be considered as a major evolutionary problem.”7
11.) How did blind chemistry create mind/ intelligence, meaning, altruism and morality? If everything evolved, and we invented God, as per evolutionary teaching, what purpose or meaning is there to human life? Should students be learning nihilism (life is meaningless) in science classes?
12.) Why is evolutionary ‘just-so’ story-telling tolerated? Evolutionists often use flexible story-telling to ‘explain’ observations contrary to evolutionary theory. NAS(USA) member Dr Philip Skell wrote, “Darwinian explanations for such things are often too supple: Natural selection makes humans self-centered and aggressive—except when it makes them altruistic and peaceable. Or natural selection produces virile men who eagerly spread their seed—except when it prefers men who are faithful protectors and providers. When an explanation is so supple that it can explain any behavior, it is difficult to test it experimentally, much less use it as a catalyst for scientific discovery.”8
13.) Where are the scientific breakthroughs due to evolution? Dr Marc Kirschner, chair of the Department of Systems Biology, Harvard Medical School, stated: “In fact, over the last 100 years, almost all of biology has proceeded independent of evolution, except evolutionary biology itself. Molecular biology, biochemistry, physiology, have not taken evolution into account at all.”9 Dr Skell wrote, “It is our knowledge of how these organisms actually operate, not speculations about how they may have arisen millions of years ago, that is essential to doctors, veterinarians, farmers … .”10 Evolution actually hinders medical discovery.11 Then why do schools and universities teach evolution so dogmatically, stealing time from experimental biology that so benefits humankind?
14.) Science involves experimenting to figure out how things work; how they operate. Why is evolution, a theory about history, taught as if it is the same as this operational science? You cannot do experiments, or even observe what happened, in the past. Asked if evolution has been observed, Richard Dawkins said, “Evolution has been observed. It’s just that it hasn’t been observed while it’s happening.”12
15.) Why is a fundamentally religious idea, a dogmatic belief system that fails to explain the evidence, taught in science classes? Karl Popper, famous philosopher of science, said “Darwinism is not a testable scientific theory, but a metaphysical [religious] research programme ….”13 Michael Ruse, evolutionist science philosopher admitted, “Evolution is a religion. This was true of evolution in the beginning, and it is true of evolution still today.”14 If “you can’t teach religion in science classes”, why is evolution taught?
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