Random Politics & Religion #00

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Random Politics & Religion #00
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-09-02 11:09:00
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
Perhaps not having Silvio Berlusconi as the PM would have helped
Incredibly dishonest(and criminal)individual, but excellent at dealing with the public, that's how he got so many followers.

This is why you guys should take Trump seriously. I don't think he's as stupid as he make it seem. Win the show = win lots of voters.

'Don't feed the trolls' applies to The Donald. He won't win though the wafting aura of his ego may continue to beleaguer the primaries and potentially the general.

He's never been dumb. But he's a showman and when the screws are put to his actual 'policies' he stands no chance winning a Republican nomination or the Presidency.

Also, I look forward to his eventual war with Hispanics.
 
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By 2015-09-02 11:11:59
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-09-02 11:19:15
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Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
Deportations should be off the table for America. We need a real pathway and working system and not money and resources on a bandage. How amazing it is that half the GoP wants Big Brother to find and expel these people, but then stay out of everyone's lives.
Want to discuss options then?

I will be more than willing to discuss what I think a reasonable immigration policy should be.

What do I know about creating a working system?

I am in favor for letting people migrate freely for various reasons, but I believe immigrants are the eggs in the mix of flour so to speak. I believe they are an essential tool for economic growth and overall a stabilizing force.

Regardless, without immigration America would soon enough face negative population growth as death rates are beginning to exceed birthrates in larger percentages in the country. I don't need to tell you that negative population growth is a drag on economic growth, and leads to an instability in systems like Social Security.
Is the population growth in the U.S. really that close to declining?
 Phoenix.Amandarius
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2015-09-02 11:22:04
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Cross-quoting in hope to not derail the other thread
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
In 30 years when Europe is a Caliphate I bet they will look back and wish they focused on real problems.

How?

I might as well say "In 30 years when I am xyz I won't care/should have cared about xyz."

IDK how many hundreds of thousands of refugees are trying to get in just today? Who are they before they just absorb into the fabric of political correctness in Europe.
*sighs*
Immigration is the hottest topic currently. But just because that problem exists the rest of the world doesn't stop spinning...
Thos who studied natural sciences can't do much about immigration, so they keep doing their job.
As nurses keep nursing.
And teachers keep teaching.
And bakers keep baking.

It is just the same ***in a different era. As nations peak and prosperity is reached. When there is a down turn, problems, etc people always turn around and blame the immigrants. Then emotions spread like wildfire.

History will always repeat back to hating the Jews, Irish, Armenians, Slavs, etc. Anyone who is seen as taking a piece of the pie.

We all share in the good times together, but no one wants to share in the bad and it is everyone else's fault.
While it's true some political parties are quick to use immigrants as scapegoats, it is also true that right now the situation is completely unsustainable. Italy and Greece are in complete crisis over this, and the refusal of cooperation from France, Hungary, UK, and some other countries, only makes it that much worse.


Immigration is an understatement. These are massive flocks of refugees fleeing a land that is completely out of control and overrun by a very serious religious military bent on taking it all over. The World refuses to take it seriously and will do so until it is too late. Instead we worry about imaginary global warming that might effect man in a few centuries.
 
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By 2015-09-02 11:24:24
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-09-02 11:28:00
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Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
imaginary global warming
 
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By 2015-09-02 11:36:35
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-02 11:49:06
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Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
What do I know about creating a working system?

I am in favor for letting people migrate freely for various reasons, but I believe immigrants are the eggs in the mix of flour so to speak. I believe they are an essential tool for economic growth and overall a stabilizing force.

Regardless, without immigration America would soon enough face negative population growth as death rates are beginning to exceed birthrates in larger percentages in the country. I don't need to tell you that negative population growth is a drag on economic growth, and leads to an instability in systems like Social Security.
I'm in favor of simplifying the citizenship process and allowing more people, not just those with special work vistas or specific skills only, to become citizens.

Mind you, these citizens will not get the full benefits of governmental assistance straight away. Then again, I would love to impose a specific age for natural born citizens to receive governmental assistance and impose the same length of time for foreign born citizens as they become citizens. Something like you cannot receive governmental assistance until you are age 26 (the government loves that age for some reason, might as well keep it) and newly minted citizens cannot receive governmental assistance until their 8th year anniversary of being a US citizen. That will prevent people from becoming citizens just to leech off the system, and it will also deter those whose sole purpose in life is to live off the government ***.

But I would like to greatly shorten the span of time it takes to become a citizen. Something like 3 months would work, it would give the government ample time to research said person to verify if they would be a benefit to society or detriment, and 90 days is the usual vista stay allowed to all foreign nationals.

Just a few ideas off the top of my head.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-09-02 11:58:03
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Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
I wonder how accurate that is.
 
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-02 12:05:50
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Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
I wonder how accurate that is.

Probably not terribly, but immigration will become essential towards our midlife crises for our country's growth.
Worldbank has more accurate information.

It's not in a graph though.

*Does not endorse pic*
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By Bloodrose 2015-09-02 12:08:53
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
What do I know about creating a working system?

I am in favor for letting people migrate freely for various reasons, but I believe immigrants are the eggs in the mix of flour so to speak. I believe they are an essential tool for economic growth and overall a stabilizing force.

Regardless, without immigration America would soon enough face negative population growth as death rates are beginning to exceed birthrates in larger percentages in the country. I don't need to tell you that negative population growth is a drag on economic growth, and leads to an instability in systems like Social Security.
I'm in favor of simplifying the citizenship process and allowing more people, not just those with special work vistas or specific skills only, to become citizens.

Mind you, these citizens will not get the full benefits of governmental assistance straight away. Then again, I would love to impose a specific age for natural born citizens to receive governmental assistance and impose the same length of time for foreign born citizens as they become citizens. Something like you cannot receive governmental assistance until you are age 26 (the government loves that age for some reason, might as well keep it) and newly minted citizens cannot receive governmental assistance until their 8th year anniversary of being a US citizen. That will prevent people from becoming citizens just to leech off the system, and it will also deter those whose sole purpose in life is to live off the government ***.

But I would like to greatly shorten the span of time it takes to become a citizen. Something like 3 months would work, it would give the government ample time to research said person to verify if they would be a benefit to society or detriment, and 90 days is the usual vista stay allowed to all foreign nationals.

Just a few ideas off the top of my head.
Those are some great ideas, but there are a lot of inherent flaws, specifically with reducing the time it takes to become a citizen down to 3 months. As person who's made a living in accounting, this should have been apparent - You'll generally have to increase the workload the current staff has (which means doing the in-depth research in a single person takes longer, not to mention the hundreds of thousands of applications done overseas and within the borders) or increase employee overhead by hiring more people to work in that department, when there's been a slight to major decrease in a lot of areas of government control (like immigration).

Secondly, putting an age restriction on natural born citizens for government assistance to 26 is meaningless. Emergencies can happen from the day you're born to the time you turn 26, where government assistance (there are dozens, if not hundreds of forms of this) becomes necessary just to make it day to day, or to find means of pulling yourself up into a better situation. However, as a better solution, I think it would be more prudent to analyze each situation carefully, and offer the amount of assistance that is necessary to meet basic needs, and of course put some stringent requirements on them (like taking additional classes, resume and job interview courses etc.) which are minimal in cost as a form of government assistance, but helps people out the most. Make them work for that government assistance. (It works like that in Canada) So for example, if you miss a required course or lesson plan without some kind of viable reason (like being lazy), then your assistance benefits get cut or flat out stops.

The Anniversary benefits to new immigrant citizens might be something to look into, and plan out accordingly, though 8 years can be a long time. Especially to anyone who's an actual refugee who's escaped with nothing but their lives. (There are those who claim a false refugee status, but I'm not familiar with the number of people who do that)

This is at least, a good start to discussing immigration reform, which has been sadly needed, and ignored for so long by the people in power.

As it is, Immigration, from a legal standpoint, is extremely slow and costly. There needs to be a way to make it more efficient to justify the cost of becoming a citizen in the first place. So while the ideas you've posited are a good place to start, I think we need to find a way to refine them to be more beneficial to natural born citizens, and to immigrant citizens, as well as the country as a whole.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-09-02 12:13:48
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Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Wefare usage among "hard" working immigrant households

Why are we obligated to care for other countries problems?

Pretty sure if immigrants are in America then it is America's problem.

Who said anything about caring for other countries problems? Pretty sure since we live in a global society, and interject ourselves into everyone's problems. That this is a silly thing to ask.
So just how many of the worlds destitute are we suppose to absorb?
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By Bloodrose 2015-09-02 12:14:39
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Wefare usage among "hard" working immigrant households

Why are we obligated to care for other countries problems?

Pretty sure if immigrants are in America then it is America's problem.

Who said anything about caring for other countries problems? Pretty sure since we live in a global society, and interject ourselves into everyone's problems. That this is a silly thing to ask.
So just how many of the worlds destitute are we suppose to absorb?
America's Culture is that of the BORG. Resistance is futile! You shall be assimilated!
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 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-09-02 12:16:30
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
I wonder how accurate that is.

Probably not terribly, but immigration will become essential towards our midlife crises for our country's growth.
Worldbank has more accurate information.

It's not in a graph though.

*Does not endorse pic*

Ethnic replacement. Can't appeal to Americans, therefore lets import a permanent underclass. Thanks democrats!
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-09-02 12:17:09
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Wow with either graph visual aid it seems without aliens, America's population is declining gradually. Go population control!
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 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-09-02 12:19:41
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Well economic conditions due to illegal immigrants make it pretty tough to have kids.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-09-02 12:20:48
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Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Wefare usage among "hard" working immigrant households

Why are we obligated to care for other countries problems?

Pretty sure if immigrants are in America then it is America's problem.

Who said anything about caring for other countries problems? Pretty sure since we live in a global society, and interject ourselves into everyone's problems. That this is a silly thing to ask.
So just how many of the worlds destitute are we suppose to absorb?

There are no set numbers.

Set up a proper system of irrigation and water will flow. Fight over how to do it, and the fields will flood.

We have set up a proper immigration system. It isn't being enforced.

Your point is a straw man.
 
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By 2015-09-02 12:21:43
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-02 12:23:29
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Bloodrose said: »
Those are some great ideas, but there are a lot of inherent flaws, specifically with reducing the time it takes to become a citizen down to 3 months. As person who's made a living in accounting, this should have been apparent - You'll generally have to increase the workload the current staff has (which means doing the in-depth research in a single person takes longer, not to mention the hundreds of thousands of applications done overseas and within the borders) or increase employee overhead by hiring more people to work in that department, when there's been a slight to major decrease in a lot of areas of government control (like immigration).
As a skeptic of governmental efficiency, I believe that our current system is more than capable of the increased workload. I'm pretty sure that, by the 3rd month of application, enough information has arrived to determine eligibility of a citizen-to-be...

Hell, I got my student visa for studying in Japan in 2 weeks, and the wait is supposed to take 6-8 weeks...I was one of tens of thousands who applied and was approved each year...

Bloodrose said: »
Secondly, putting an age restriction on natural born citizens for government assistance to 26 is meaningless. Emergencies can happen from the day you're born to the time you turn 26, where government assistance (there are dozens, if not hundreds of forms of this) becomes necessary just to make it day to day, or to find means of pulling yourself up into a better situation. However, as a better solution, I think it would be more prudent to analyze each situation carefully, and offer the amount of assistance that is necessary to meet basic needs, and of course put some stringent requirements on them (like taking additional classes, resume and job interview courses etc.) which are minimal in cost as a form of government assistance, but helps people out the most. Make them work for that government assistance. (It works like that in Canada) So for example, if you miss a required course or lesson plan without some kind of viable reason (like being lazy), then your assistance benefits get cut or flat out stops.
Too many feels would be hurt if we required effort for assistance. Too many people will complain, because they expect the free money.

Because, "it's not their fault they are failures at life" (general excuse given).

I don't think that the age limit is a factor, because the parents are legally obligated to provide support to the child between ages 0-18, so they are not required to get governmental assistance at that time. From 18-26, even though Obamacare is trying to set the standard of the new "age of adulthood" for said children (remember, you can still be considered a child for health insurance reasons up to age 26 thanks to Obamacare), why not force the kid to actually make a living instead of applying for welfare as soon as he turns 18?

Now, special circumstances apply, such as life-changing disabilities and the such, but overall, a 18 year old kid should not be receiving food stamps because he is too lazy to work....or have "depression."

Bloodrose said: »
The Anniversary benefits to new immigrant citizens might be something to look into, and plan out accordingly, though 8 years can be a long time. Especially to anyone who's an actual refugee who's escaped with nothing but their lives. (There are those who claim a false refugee status, but I'm not familiar with the number of people who do that)
I used 8 years because of the 18-26 new age rule put in place by Obamacare. It doesn't have to be that long, but anything shorter than 4 years would be counterproductive in my opinion.

8 years to force people to get a living without government assistance will help prevent life-long assistance families who chooses to only survive off of governmental assistance, and also help grow the economy by providing a workforce actually willing to survive.

Bloodrose said: »
This is at least, a good start to discussing immigration reform, which has been sadly needed, and ignored for so long by the people in power.

As it is, Immigration, from a legal standpoint, is extremely slow and costly. There needs to be a way to make it more efficient to justify the cost of becoming a citizen in the first place. So while the ideas you've posited are a good place to start, I think we need to find a way to refine them to be more beneficial to natural born citizens, and to immigrant citizens, as well as the country as a whole.
I will never admit that my ideas are absolute and are not subject to change. I am more than willing to discuss this further, and maybe together we may create something worth bringing up to both parties or at least create awareness forcing both parties to actually listen....

I highly doubt it though, but you never know.
 
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By 2015-09-02 12:23:54
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-02 12:26:29
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Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Well economic conditions due to illegal immigrants make it pretty tough to have kids.

Nope.

This is the way all industrialized nations birthrates end up. We stop having or having as many kids.
Generally due to both parents working too much to raise a family.

It's prevalent in Japan at the moment.
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By Ramyrez 2015-09-02 12:27:30
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Damn people.

Get educations, realize having 15 kids isn't necessary.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-02 12:28:06
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Ramyrez said: »
Damn people.

Get educations, realize having 15 kids isn't necessary.
14 is enough!
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-09-02 12:28:23
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Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
I wonder how accurate that is.

Probably not terribly, but immigration will become essential towards our midlife crises for our country's growth.
Worldbank has more accurate information.

It's not in a graph though.

*Does not endorse pic*

Ethnic replacement. Can't appeal to Americans, therefore lets import a permanent underclass. Thanks democrats!

Nice work at ignorantly declaring immigrants are a permanent underclass.

I am personally glad that immigrants mine and others lives and standards of living better. 'Big whoop wanna fite about it?'
When 51% are reported to use some form of welfare, they ARE by definition, an underclass. There is no ignorance about it.
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By Ramyrez 2015-09-02 12:29:35
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
14 is enough!

Having one is fulfilling a biological itch.

Any more is extravagance and vanity. That or obeying some misguided religious mandate.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-02 12:29:41
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Nausi, are people who use welfare assistance 2nd class citizens to you?
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