Ramyrez said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Given it's in China I hope you're touching upon the insane RMT industry and the conditions of those workers.
Thanks though guys for all the aspects I need to cover. Even Verda too. :P
Random Politics & Religion #00
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Random Politics & Religion #00
Bahamut.Milamber said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » Ramyrez said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » Then tell us your version of events and why you think they didn't do it to themselves. ...the individuals in those jobs? China's workers in general? Do you understand anything about how countries, social classes, work forces, etc. develop? Let alone how China's modern history is just...a total *** mess? Probably not. As you seem to think everyone working in unskilled labor jobs, or unemployed/underemployed in the U.S. is there "because it's their own fault and deserves whatever negative repercussions come there way" too. Ok, so tell us how as a society they didn't *** themselves over by offering cheap labor to outside countries as a way to try to boost their economy in a time where, all other factors were to remain constant, communism would have destroyed whatever society they had remaining and they would have progressed to a different political and economic system if they didn't undersell their future like they did? In other words, given the choices they made, how is it my fault that they made the decisions they made, and why should you think I'm responsible for their bad decisions? There is also the ethical question. Part of the reason labor is cheap is because of the lack of protective measures, be it for personal safety, or environmental concerns. Is it ethical to hire people for less wages, and not institute the same level of safety measures (building codes, personal protections, climate regulation, etc) / environmental protections? Or are you going to say that you would never buy a product from people who "exploit their workers" (another very loose term that can mean pretty much anything/everything under the sun)? Hell, just by posting, you already proven that you don't follow what you are preaching. Most components are made under the same "unethical" practices you are preaching against! Bahamut.Milamber said: » There is also the ethical question. Part of the reason labor is cheap is because of the lack of protective measures, be it for personal safety, or environmental concerns. Is it ethical to hire people for less wages, and not institute the same level of safety measures (building codes, personal protections, climate regulation, etc) / environmental protections? Whatever answer gets you more profit is the right one. Everything else will be solved by the invisible hand.
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Asura.Kingnobody said: » am I the one hiring these workers in that factory  I said it the first time, that pic looks like a slaver of the 19th century.
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Bahamut.Omael said: » Whatever answer gets you more profit is the right one  Oliver Stone thought he made a movie about a scumbag who people would hate. Turns out he just inspired generations of terrible people.
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Ramyrez said: » Then again, China, so. Best not dissent, I suppose. This plus this: Asura.Kingnobody said: » Basically, Chinese RMTs got it made compared to the rest of that society. But it's not our place to force our ideals on them. They're really big on not having western influences 'forced' on to them. They rather develop in their own way on their own time line. So since it's negative effects, in order to bring RMTs into the paper, I have to figure out a better way to present it from a non-western viewpoint. Ragnarok.Nausi said: » Sadly, yeah. That's the ***choice we have. Luckily it hasn't screwed us all over yet. Probably won't any time soon either, despite the gloom and doom from both sides "if the other side's guy gets elected". Asura.Kingnobody said: » Bahamut.Milamber said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » Ramyrez said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » Then tell us your version of events and why you think they didn't do it to themselves. ...the individuals in those jobs? China's workers in general? Do you understand anything about how countries, social classes, work forces, etc. develop? Let alone how China's modern history is just...a total *** mess? Probably not. As you seem to think everyone working in unskilled labor jobs, or unemployed/underemployed in the U.S. is there "because it's their own fault and deserves whatever negative repercussions come there way" too. Ok, so tell us how as a society they didn't *** themselves over by offering cheap labor to outside countries as a way to try to boost their economy in a time where, all other factors were to remain constant, communism would have destroyed whatever society they had remaining and they would have progressed to a different political and economic system if they didn't undersell their future like they did? In other words, given the choices they made, how is it my fault that they made the decisions they made, and why should you think I'm responsible for their bad decisions? There is also the ethical question. Part of the reason labor is cheap is because of the lack of protective measures, be it for personal safety, or environmental concerns. Is it ethical to hire people for less wages, and not institute the same level of safety measures (building codes, personal protections, climate regulation, etc) / environmental protections? Asura.Kingnobody said: » Or are you going to say that you would never buy a product from people who "exploit their workers" (another very loose term that can mean pretty much anything/everything under the sun)? Hell, just by posting, you already proven that you don't follow what you are preaching. Most components are made under the same "unethical" practices you are preaching against! Looks like Rand Paul is filibustering his fellow Kentuckian senator's Patriot Act renewal, how embarrassing for Mitch McConnell.
Bahamut.Milamber said: » No, you are not directly hiring them. However, there are many CSR policies which do explicitly forbid doing business with other companies or factories which do not establish baseline policies (at a minimum). You just don't hear about such CSR or anything really that puts companies in a positive light, as it would go against the ongoing negativity campaign against them by various groups (media, unions, liberal/democrats, so on/so forth). Bahamut.Milamber said: » You are assuming that I'm not posting from a computer where components are entirely sourced from responsible vendors. (aluminum case from iceland, various fabricators in the US for components and chipset, e.g. TI, bios from AMI). I'm sure you will find one or two factories that do not meet or conform with basic standards, like ISO9000 for instance, but hey, anything to throw negativity on businesses, right? Shiva.Viciousss said: » Looks like Rand Paul is filibustering his fellow Kentuckian senator's Patriot Act renewal, how embarrassing for Mitch McConnell. Good! even though it's driven by grandstanding (I assume) the patriot act needs to die, & the NSA should be dissolved.
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There was a time and a place for the patriot act, and under Obama it ain't.
Ragnarok.Nausi said: » There was a time and a place for the patriot act nope.
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: » There was a time and a place for the patriot act
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The Patriot Act is set to expire in its entirety on June 1, and McConnell is handling it as terribly as you would expect. He wants a 5 1/2 year extension of the entire Act with no reforms, and he is pretty much on an island, if he put it to a vote, I would bet 80 senators would vote against it.
The House passed its legislation to end the NSA's bulk data collection with an overwhelming 338 votes, Obama has said he wants to sign it into law, and McConnell doesn't care. And with Congress set to go on another vacation at the end of they day tomorrow that won't end until after June 1st, he basically has about 30 hours to figure it out. Lets hope Rand Paul can save the day.
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Asura.Kingnobody said: » Bahamut.Milamber said: » No, you are not directly hiring them. However, there are many CSR policies which do explicitly forbid doing business with other companies or factories which do not establish baseline policies (at a minimum). You just don't hear about such CSR or anything really that puts companies in a positive light, as it would go against the ongoing negativity campaign against them by various groups (media, unions, liberal/democrats, so on/so forth). There is also having a CSR (which is voluntary), and actually engaging in activities which support it. Asura.Kingnobody said: » Bahamut.Milamber said: » You are assuming that I'm not posting from a computer where components are entirely sourced from responsible vendors. (aluminum case from iceland, various fabricators in the US for components and chipset, e.g. TI, bios from AMI). I'm sure you will find one or two factories that do not meet or conform with basic standards, like ISO9000 for instance, but hey, anything to throw negativity on businesses, right?
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I think we are talking about two different things now....
Asura.Kingnobody said: » I think we are talking about two different things now.... You can point to the Apple/Foxconn fiasco as an example(not that it proves the rule). Bahamut.Milamber said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » I think we are talking about two different things now.... You can point to the Apple/Foxconn fiasco as an example(not that it proves the rule). It is impossible to measure effectiveness on a solution where there is insufficient data and not any measurable qualities between two events. Either way, nobody has the right to "liberate" people because of their bad decisions. If there's anything we can learn about Iraq, it's that. Asura.Kingnobody said: » Again, you cannot demean a group because of a few bad actors sure we can, we do it all the time. Asura.Kingnobody said: » Either way, nobody has the right to "liberate" people because of their bad decisions. If there's anything we can learn about Iraq, it's that. What about from the bad decisions of the few controlling the many? Or are you actually arguing that dictatorships such as places like North Korea are okay? Sometimes a dictatorship is the best option. I thought the evidence was clear on this by now.
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Ramyrez said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » Either way, nobody has the right to "liberate" people because of their bad decisions. If there's anything we can learn about Iraq, it's that. What about from the bad decisions of the few controlling the many? Or are you actually arguing that dictatorships such as places like North Korea are okay? If they want to be brainwashed into thinking that their standard of living is better under the "regime" and not as a free nation (hell, they can just look over to the south to see how it is there), then it is their choice and we should respect it, not force our ideas onto others. How else do you think America got such a shitty name in the global community? Basically because we have for decades forced our ideals on to others... Caitsith.Shiroi said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » I'm arguing that if the people in that country allows a dictatorship to happen, then it's their problem, not ours. If they want to be brainwashed into thinking that their standard of living is better under the "regime" and not as a free nation (hell, they can just look over to the south to see how it is there), then it is their choice and we should respect it, not force our ideas onto others. Yes, put the blame on the citizens, they let dictatorship happen, it's their fault. Let's all liberate everyone from their own inaction and bad decisions, because of feels
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