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Bill Nye debates Creationist Ken Ham live 2/4/2014
By Jetackuu 2014-04-18 11:58:11
Wow the amount of delusional nonsense in here just went through the roof.
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Shiva.Tedril
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By Shiva.Tedril 2014-04-18 11:59:39
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Yes, I believe that those illustrations are color photographs taken from black holes millions of light years away.
I don't see what you're getting at. I never said we've seen a black hole yet we know they exist based on the actions they take upon other objects - like stars.
I think what he's trying to say, is nobody has observed the physical form of a Black Hole, as one would a planet, star or other celestial body.
A fundamentally stupid argument to be sure, as human perception is all a fabrication of the mind anyway.
Lack of direct observation basically validates the existence of the Black Hole/Dark Star, since all the word means is a grouping of sufficient mass as to warp spacetime to a degree that light cannot escape. Read this it will change your life
How does that change anything? The fact that in the forum of scientific discovery, everything is always up for review as new information is discovered isn't news. And the jury is still out on "Hawking Radiation" anyway. I was just point out that the part about light was a little off on how it functions according to hawking, whether thats right or not who knows just throwing it out there. Wasn't tryin to be rude was saying it in a thought you might like it kind of way :).
Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-04-18 11:59:48
Read it when it published. It didn't change my life then and isn't now. It's an attempt to rectify what we know about the phenomenon we call black holes. It's not saying the don't exist. It's say they may operate a bit differently than we've been postulating based on the information we've been able to gleen thusfar.
It's science. Ongoing, changing, new discoveries allowing us to shed light on not-entirely-understood universal occurences.
And nowhere here are you proving your God or anyone else's deity.
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Shiva.Tedril
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By Shiva.Tedril 2014-04-18 12:00:15
That is my whole point, I'm not disproving black holes, I'm proving God,
After being conservative, being religious was my next guess.
I should just start off with that instead. After several pages you figured it out lol
By fonewear 2014-04-18 12:00:31
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Shiva.Tedril
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By Shiva.Tedril 2014-04-18 12:01:16
Wow the amount of delusional nonsense in here just went through the roof. It would make more sense if you have read Immanuel Kant
Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-04-18 12:01:53
I didn't read through the entire thread
we can't know or see anything
Pretty sure this is what dumb people tell themselves to sound smart.
Shiva.Tedril
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By Shiva.Tedril 2014-04-18 12:02:06
Read it when it published. It didn't change my life then and isn't now. It's an attempt to rectify what we know about the phenomenon we call black holes. It's not saying the don't exist. It's say they may operate a bit differently than we've been postulating based on the information we've been able to gleen thusfar.
It's science. Ongoing, changing, new discoveries allowing us to shed light on not-entirely-understood universal occurences.
And nowhere here are you proving your God or anyone else's deity. Never ever said it didn't exist I said science does change because our senses and information change was pointing out how faith based it is
Shiva.Tedril
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By Shiva.Tedril 2014-04-18 12:02:35
I didn't read through the entire thread
we can't know or see anything
Pretty sure this is what dumb people tell themselves to sound smart. Okay then explain how perception works?
By Jetackuu 2014-04-18 12:03:20
Wow the amount of delusional nonsense in here just went through the roof. It would make more sense if you have read Immanuel Kant It would make more sense if I had a lobotomy.
But thanks again for proving why faith doesn't belong in schools.
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2014-04-18 12:03:36
Yes thank you thank you!!!! Thats exactly what I'm saying, we can't know or see anything, sorry to go all Kant on you but we don't know what its fact or not. Or senses are flawed, and our minds more so. Everything is truly faith based, so I'm no more making ***up then you all are. And I have just as much faith and information.
Except science doesn't rely exclusively on human perception, especially not in physics. It all uses complex mathematics as proof, which lies outside of the bias of human perception.
If you want to boil everything down to a leap of faith, consider that Science takes faith based on peer review over decades, even centuries. Religion takes faith based on the hearsay of illiterate goat herders in bronze-age Iraq.
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Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-04-18 12:03:50
Wow the amount of delusional nonsense in here just went through the roof. It would make more sense if you have read Immanuel Kant
It would make more sense if it were time to start drinking for the day to more readily tolerate the supposed logic you're trying to sell.
Shiva.Tedril
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By Shiva.Tedril 2014-04-18 12:04:23
Wow the amount of delusional nonsense in here just went through the roof. It would make more sense if you have read Immanuel Kant It would make more sense if I had a lobotomy.
But thanks again for proving why faith doesn't belong in schools. But what about science class? Kids need to know that stuff?
Shiva.Tedril
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By Shiva.Tedril 2014-04-18 12:05:09
Wow the amount of delusional nonsense in here just went through the roof. It would make more sense if you have read Immanuel Kant
It would make more sense if it were time to start drinking for the day to more readily tolerate the supposed logic you're trying to sell. Ah ad hominem fallacies, hear them roar!
Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-04-18 12:06:25
Read it when it published. It didn't change my life then and isn't now. It's an attempt to rectify what we know about the phenomenon we call black holes. It's not saying the don't exist. It's say they may operate a bit differently than we've been postulating based on the information we've been able to gleen thusfar. It's science. Ongoing, changing, new discoveries allowing us to shed light on not-entirely-understood universal occurences. And nowhere here are you proving your God or anyone else's deity. Never ever said it didn't exist I said science does change because our senses and information change was pointing out how faith based it is
Science has little to do with faith. You're trying to associate two things to prove your personal need to have a deity running things.
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Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-04-18 12:07:35
Wow the amount of delusional nonsense in here just went through the roof. It would make more sense if you have read Immanuel Kant It would make more sense if it were time to start drinking for the day to more readily tolerate the supposed logic you're trying to sell. Ah ad hominem fallacies, hear them roar!
No fallacies. Just my own vices for dealing with the world.
You've got your religion.
I've got whiskey.
By Jetackuu 2014-04-18 12:07:46
Wow the amount of delusional nonsense in here just went through the roof. It would make more sense if you have read Immanuel Kant
It would make more sense if it were time to start drinking for the day to more readily tolerate the supposed logic you're trying to sell. Ah ad hominem fallacies, hear them roar! you need to learn what an ad hominem, science, facts, and faith are as apparently you don't understand any of it.
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By Jetackuu 2014-04-18 12:07:58
Wow the amount of delusional nonsense in here just went through the roof. It would make more sense if you have read Immanuel Kant It would make more sense if it were time to start drinking for the day to more readily tolerate the supposed logic you're trying to sell. Ah ad hominem fallacies, hear them roar!
No fallacies. Just my own vices for dealing with the world.
You've got your religion.
I've got whiskey. bring me some
Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-04-18 12:08:42
I didn't read through the entire thread
we can't know or see anything
Pretty sure this is what dumb people tell themselves to sound smart. Okay then explain how perception works?
Perception is a thing, but to claim that we can't know/see anything is pretty silly. We live in a reality and it has certain, undeniable rules. The speed of light is about 3x10^8 m/s, acceleration due to gravity on earth is 9.8m/s, and so forth.
Even if you want to wrap it up in 'perception', perception isn't really all that complicated to understand. You can always say that we know for sure what we know for sure when being seen through the lens of perception.
You should probably spend more time thinking about things and less time being wow'ed by them.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-04-18 12:09:19
Look I'm doing what science does, you can't see god or touch him or smell him. Just like black holes. However you can see what he does and has done,like create the universe. You can call it a big bang, just like if an ancient egyptian would describe a gun if he had never seen one before we describe God that way. But it changes nothing. It's our lack of understanding. I'm not bible thumping, science, philosophy, life all proves God.
Imperial unicorns within the equestrian realm created the universe setting off the Big Bang before they retreated to their sacred realm. Leaving evidence of horses on our planet and sprinkling unicorns and Pegasus in our lore across centuries to enlighten us to the truth.
How is my paragraph above any more or less credible than "God" unless by God you mean the deist interpretation of said entity? Even the deist interpretation has no evidence any God exists outside a desire to place one at the creation of the universe to satisfy a personal desire. The moment you start following a specific god/gods you're now asked to prove your pantheon is real and the thousands of others aren't.
You have faith and that's it. Science works within the realm of evidence and observation. No one has observed a God behind anything simply an infinite construct we dub the universe and rules that apply within it. If we ever do find that elusive God, it most certainly be what the bronze age hatepeddlers were selling us.
Maybe were just a kid's science project. Hi universal overlord, I hope you get an A on your science project before you flush us.
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Shiva.Tedril
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By Shiva.Tedril 2014-04-18 12:09:23
Yes thank you thank you!!!! Thats exactly what I'm saying, we can't know or see anything, sorry to go all Kant on you but we don't know what its fact or not. Or senses are flawed, and our minds more so. Everything is truly faith based, so I'm no more making ***up then you all are. And I have just as much faith and information.
Except science doesn't rely exclusively on human perception, especially not in physics. It all uses complex mathematics as proof, which lies outside of the bias of human perception.
If you want to boil everything down to a leap of faith, consider that Science takes faith based on peer review over decades, even centuries. Religion takes faith based on the hearsay of illiterate goat herders in bronze-age Iraq. Lol, I would agree the mass of your sunday head bangers yes fo sho. I'm talking about another king of something. And ya I would agree with you again unless you go all Kant,and start questioning all of the universe in which case math would fall apart because all the stuff you were putting together or taking apart simply wouldn't be there. I'm not however going to purpose such an argument because it's silly, either way it doesn't matter though because you still can't trust that the things you are "mathing" act like and are what you think they are. For instances ya 2 + 2 will always be 4, problem would be what if we were wrong and one of the 2 was 3.
Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-04-18 12:09:23
But what about science class? Kids need to know that stuff? Yes. I hope it was sarcasm, but just in case, yes.
And phylophy's point as well is not to prove god, cause again, that's an oxymoron. Phylosophy needs to help find different perspectives to think and approach things. You need questions to find answers.
I studied Kant, as Schopenhauer and most of the other phylosophers. The mayan veil is just something to consider, not a demonstration of anything.
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By fonewear 2014-04-18 12:09:34
Wow the amount of delusional nonsense in here just went through the roof. It would make more sense if you have read Immanuel Kant It would make more sense if it were time to start drinking for the day to more readily tolerate the supposed logic you're trying to sell. Ah ad hominem fallacies, hear them roar!
No fallacies. Just my own vices for dealing with the world.
You've got your religion.
I've got whiskey.
Better be Scotch...
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2014-04-18 12:10:06
Wow the amount of delusional nonsense in here just went through the roof. It would make more sense if you have read Immanuel Kant
It would make more sense if it were time to start drinking for the day to more readily tolerate the supposed logic you're trying to sell. Ah ad hominem fallacies, hear them roar! you need to learn what an ad hominem, science, facts, and faith are as apparently you don't understand any of it.
To be fair, Understanding has always been antithetical to religion.
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By fonewear 2014-04-18 12:11:07
To be fair this thread was doomed from the beginning.
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Shiva.Tedril
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By Shiva.Tedril 2014-04-18 12:11:17
I didn't read through the entire thread
we can't know or see anything
Pretty sure this is what dumb people tell themselves to sound smart. Okay then explain how perception works?
Perception is a thing, but to claim that we can't know/see anything is pretty silly. We live in a reality and it has certain, undeniable rules. The speed of light is about 3x10^8 m/s, acceleration due to gravity on earth is 9.8m/s, and so forth.
Even if you want to wrap it up in 'perception', perception isn't really all that complicated to understand. You can always say that we know for sure what we know for sure when being seen through the lens of perception.
You should probably spend more time thinking about things and less time being wow'ed by them. You would be correct if light exists. Please prove it.
Shiva.Tedril
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By Shiva.Tedril 2014-04-18 12:12:46
But what about science class? Kids need to know that stuff? Yes. I hope it was sarcasm, but just in case, yes.
And phylophy's point as well is not to prove god, cause again, that's an oxymoron. Phylosophy needs to help find different perspectives to think and approach things. You need questions to find answers.
I studied Kant, as Schopenhauer and most of the other phylosophers. The mayan veil is just something to consider, not a demonstration of anything. Kant was trying to make a point, that saying we can't focus on our own little minds alone.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-04-18 12:13:17
Burden of proof shifting? Prove God for us all please.
In particular, the God you have decided to throw your lot in with.
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Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-04-18 12:15:25
You would be correct if light exists. Please prove it.
Please think about your posts a little more before you click submit.
Shiva.Tedril
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By Shiva.Tedril 2014-04-18 12:15:30
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Burden of proof shifting? Prove God for us all please.
In particular, the God you have decided to throw your lot in with. Try reading Mere Christianity by C.S Lewis its a good start. I wish you guys weren't so negative, just trying to throw out a new way of looking at stuff. I'm not a judging, hateful christian and I'm not trying too.
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