Valefor.Prothescar said:
»Valefor.Prothescar said:
»I leveled a tank job, probably the shittiest archetype of job to level in any MMO ever when it's solo oriented, from 1 to 50 and can say that I never felt like I was engaged to monster for too long or that the GCD made me want to claw my eyes out or any ***like that. The combat feels like it has weight to it as a result of the more measured time between each
action, and as a result of that additional time the animations and reactions to and from being attacked feel more meaty. It's almost cathartic.
I like it a lot more than hitting 5 abilities within 3 seconds and having the thing I'm attacking die in under 10 seconds just to move on to the next powerless sod near me. I like it significantly more than standing there autoattacking for however long just to press the same button over and over, sometimes moving a couple of steps and pressing another button or two in between, to kill enemies that stand in one spot using a TP move every 6~10 seconds and occasionally cast a spell, never attempting to flee or use its environment against you.
So personally, if I had the choice, I'd rather have a meaty, flavorful combat experience rather than "kill a trash mob in 2 sec with 2 abilities" for "non stop action", because to me, action doesn't entail running around two shotting everything with no weightiness to the combat. I shouldn't be able to kill the massive armored dragon in two shots, it should be a duel to the death, and I want that duel to feel like it has substance to it rather than floaty spins and strikes that sound like they're done with a wet paper towel roll at a speed that would tear my limbs from their sockets while standing in one spot and not feeling connected with my prey or my environment.
You don't need 2.5 sec to choose which ability to use in mmo after optimal rotation in that situation is figured out.
You are implying mmo in past 5 years has no depth?
What part of my post says any of that? It isn't about having the time to choose which ability to use in an optimal rotation, it's the feel of the combat. I get it, you don't like it, you want to feel like a god or something in your games. Fine. But I and many others would much prefer a weighty combat experience that feels visceral rather than smashing together tin cans, one hopefully being sharper than the other and thus wins immediately so you can move on to smashing into more cans.
And no, I'm not implying that at all. GW2 is one of my favorite MMOs of all time. However, trying to say that it's "white knighting" to defend XIV's combat system just because you can't spam keys at the speed of smell to take down everything in your path in a microsecond is an unfair assessment, so I provided reasons why.
You have biased opinion toward "kill fodder with 2 ability" and "lower GCD", and tell me "I only want to feel like a god"?
I'm talking about whether it's good/bad from game design's prospective. And personally I find it's
unnecessary to make it that way, and I couldn't understand why ppl defend for it. The only reason fan boy ever use was "Go play other games if you don't like 2.5 sec GDC, I like it".
Valefor.Prothescar said:
»I leveled a tank job, probably the shittiest archetype of job to level in any MMO ever when it's solo oriented, from 1 to 50 and can say that I never felt like I was engaged to monster for too long or that the GCD made me want to claw my eyes out or any ***like that. The combat feels like it has weight to it as a result of the more measured time between each action, and as a result of that additional time the animations and reactions to and from being attacked feel more meaty. It's almost cathartic.
I like it a lot more than hitting 5 abilities within 3 seconds and having the thing I'm attacking die in under 10 seconds just to move on to the next powerless sod near me. I like it significantly more than standing there autoattacking for however long just to press the same button over and over, sometimes moving a couple of steps and pressing another button or two in between, to kill enemies that stand in one spot using a TP move every 6~10 seconds and occasionally cast a spell, never attempting to flee or use its environment against you.
So personally, if I had the choice, I'd rather have a meaty, flavorful combat experience rather than "kill a trash mob in 2 sec with 2 abilities" for "non stop action", because to me, action doesn't entail running around two shotting everything with no weightiness to the combat. I shouldn't be able to kill the massive armored dragon in two shots, it should be a duel to the death, and I want that duel to feel like it has substance to it rather than floaty spins and strikes that sound like they're done with a wet paper towel roll at a speed that would tear my limbs from their sockets while standing in one spot and not feeling connected with my prey or my environment.
I'm not sure whether you start from scratch or start with your high lv legacy character in ARR, but I rerolled a new character, and played new job in ARR just to see how low lv content is like.
And ARR lv 1~15 or lv 20 experience, is TERRIBLE.
Low lv quest is nothing different from other MMO, get quest, kill X Y Z, but I'm ok with that. I'm ok with low lv solo quest serves as tutorial for players to get used to the control, and feel the overall pace of the game. Other games are like that, ARR is like that, that's all fine by me.
What I disagree with, in other games, you go out of town on lv 1 character, engage, click ability 1, wait for 1.5 sec, click ability again, dead.
In ARR, you engage, click ability, wait for 2.5 sec, click ability again, 2.5 sec, click ability, 2.5 sec, repeat that somewhere between 4~7 times(depending on job/gear/lv, but certainly more than 2 times), dead.
Then you repeat that process A LOT for various quests, doing
SAME thing you do in other games, with
limited ability(usually spam around 2~3 moves all the way until 15~20), only to do it
10 times slower.
How does doing same click ability, click ability, click ability for more than 2 times on same target feels "better" than doing it twice?
Meaty combat experience by using same ability 5+ times on every mob for hours? Lol. No, you move to next powerless mobs after a lot of 2.5 sec GDC, except the entire process is being dragged 10 times longer, but the essence of it is pretty much the same.
And no, I'm not talking about raid NMs, nor big dragon. I'm talking about LEVEL ONE solo fodder, that using same ability slightly more times doesn't make the game experience better, it makes it worse. Like how pre Abyssea era, lving a job takes 5 months, and how does that make it "better" experience to kill same mob over and over for 5 months?
I agree with combat should have meaningful experience, but meaningful experience will NEVER come from using same ability 5 times on a lv 1 fodder the moment you get into a game.
Because if it does, why would many(I mean many, for real) post WoW/GW2 generation MMO player complain about slow pace combat on forums? Obviously they see no meaning in those, just like me.
And if fodder doesn't die after a few ability use, how can you get the sense of accomplishment at higher lv when mobs takes more time to die?
Then when ppl expressed their opinion about how bad the design is, fan boys counter with "if you don't like it gtfo" "buutttt....but it gets better at high lv".
If the game only get better at high lv, or if I feel no satisfaction by spamming same ability multiple time on a fodder in solo quest, then it's clearly a design flaw. And it's irrelevant to I want to be a god in a video game.
There are no reason that low lv fodder can't die in 2 ability, none. Like there are no reason that 5 months of lving is necessary in XI.
I also disagree with lower GDC makes the combat has no weight. Weight of combat/decision making came from depth/design mechanics, but irrelevant to the cool down time.
Most of the video game design mechanics pretty much boils down to rock paper scissor type of "If your enemy do X, you counter with Y".
For example:
If my MP runs low and need MP, I use MP recovery combo.
My decision's already been made the moment my MP runs low, cool down time just stop me from executing the decision.
Give me 1 sec cool down time, I'm going to use MP recovery combo.
Give me 60 sec cool down time, I'm still going to use MP recovery combo.
1 sec or 60 sec, my decision holds same weight, except my execution is slower with 60 sec cool down.
This is pretty much the same mechanic in ANY fighting game with depth, or turn based games.
Say you're playing tekken or fighting games that's not a shallow button mesh.
Your enemy do X, you counter with Y, if you counter the wrong move, you get *** kicked.
Make Tekken into a RPG with 2.5 sec cool down, you do same decision, make tekken into a FTG with no cool down, every move you make, and every mistake you make, still has same weight, except you do it faster.
Ask any professional FTG player, whether Tekken is a shallow button mash that decisions are irrelevant, or a meaty, flavor-able rock paper scissor experience, and see how they reply.
Further more, at higher lv your GDC gets reduced with gears, by your logic, FFXIV sucked at higher lv cuz you get lower GDC?
I did not ask FFXIV be as fast as Tekken, I simply think game's better with 1.5 sec GDC or 2 sec GDC, and lower GDC reduce from gear or no GDC- gears. That would make pre lv 40 experience MUCH better.
By no means 1.5~2 sec GDC make FFXIV a button spam.
I see NO reason that 2.5 GDC at lower lv is necessary to make the game good, that no amount of "gtfo if you don't like it, I like it this way" can defend for it. Because currently we're seeing equally, if not more 2.5 sec GDC haters than lovers, at least in NA/EU MMORPG community.
The only positive reason I can think of, is it's a way to accommodate JP/FFXI culture. JPs hate voice chat, they started drama in 1.0 when 1.0 was real button spam, because they can no longer chat in /p while fighting mobs. The fact that FFXIV has no regional server so you have to play with ppl speaking different languages, means you can't design MMO as fast as other MMO where ppl more used to voice communicate in raids, cuz ppl need time to type stuff.
Then again, since higher lv GDC gets reduced, then the above positive reason's gone too.
2.5 sec GDC at start is clearly a design flaw that makes low lv experience much less enjoyable than it could have been. Some ppl may like this design, like how ppl still likes FFXI pt @75 cap, some ppl may hate 2.5 sec GDC and gtfo after 4hr of ARR, some ppl like me, may ask "WHY SE WHY" but continue anyways, that doesn't mean it's not a design flaw.