[Dev] GEO And RUN Artifact Equipment

06-06-2013 2:22 PM [source]
Okipuit Community Rep		Asura.Sechs (Zhronne) said: » Does this mean that RUN and GEO won't get Relic armor and Empyreal armor? In the next version update, only geomancer and rune fencer artifact armor will be added. As Camate mentioned previously, this gear is for level 99 (item level 105), so while the term artifact is used, you can consider that it will be more powerful than that of the level 50-60 artifact for other jobs. We'll keep you posted on information about other equipment for these jobs as it becomes available!
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Did Camate just speak in the third person? lol

Camate is Bob Dole now?

I know a few PLD who can hold all 5 nm's in Morimar Basalt Fields with a WHM support.

a Good BRD/whm can main cure 3 DD if they stick with say the roaming pt. Again it all depends the gear and players ability to pull this off.

Set up's I like are PLD WHm BRD/WHM 3x MNK (the MNK's can also destroy Matamata if you so wish to make the PLD's job easier)

EDIT*** This was in reply to the Holding pt in Plasm farms.

Basically is a non reply that doesn't tell us anything about IF relics will be added, WHERE they will be added and same for Empys.

Going by their way of reasoning it would be a "waste of precious resources" to develop level 70-75 gear.
Of course it's just a silly excuse. Not like it takes a lot to release gear with a certain amount of stats at low level, and than make so that same gear is upgradeable, with stats simply scaling up according to their new model of "gear level", which is something I hope could have never infected FFXI as well and stayed in all the other MMOs.

It's understandable that they're willing to release more Job Specific *useful* gear that you can actually fully equip instead of just swapping during JAs. (it will be ironic if the sets will turn out to suck though :'D)
But at the same time I don't see why they couldn't do both things at the same time and make everybody happy.
Low level AF which is upgradeable to high level, period.
No complicated revision of stats, just an increase.

They already said that GEO and RUN would be getting equivalents of Relic and Empyrean armor, and we've already seen concept art for both of these sets (at least for GEO). They're just not getting it this update.

Why would they even bother? They don't develop low-level content anymore and anything they've done to the current low-level content has been to get people through it quicker.

I suppose this means they don't plan on letting you +1 RUN and GEO AF? (Not that it usually matters, hurray +1 defense)

Did they? I only remind them vaguely hinting about the possibility, which is not really the same thing.

Call me an OCD anyway, but I really see no reason good enough to break a model that's been valid for 20 other jobs.
The "give them useful gear" thing doesn't make sense either because they could have done both.

Imagine breathing new life into Limbus (yes, again) by releasing upgrade items for RUN and GEO af+1 and then +2 for them and all other jobs.
But it's pretty clear the current dev team only cares for you to do SoA content 100% of your time and *** the rest.

I can understand their wish to have players focus on a restricted amount of things, but they're bringing the logic of other MMOs into FFXI, and on the long run this won't work because FFXI has never been this, and what works fantastically elsewhere doesn't necessarily works as good in here.
Repeating the same thing over and over and over and over kills the fun for the majority of people.
Having a variety, to a certain extent at least, is always a good choice.
FFXI has always been about a parallel expansion of content, not "tiered" like WoW and most other MMOs.
Not saying the other model is wrong, just saying FFXI has never been this way. If people kept playing it for 11 it's not because they were hoping someday some new game director would have copied models from other MMOs and brought them into FFXI.
I'm leaning to think people kept playing FFXI because... it was FFXI, and because it was *different*, with the pros and cons this obviously bring.


Call me a pessimist but while I'm undoubtely enjoying the present, I'm seriously concerned about the future.

No Pleebo, because a bunch of herpaderps left their RUN/GEO at level 60 in anticipation of LV50-60 gear they would use for 3 days and maybe through the grace of Altana one piece might be spared the fate of eternal porter moogle damnation as a macro piece for a JA, those of us who actually would like useful level 99 equipment for the jobs must suffer.

Also, they don't want you to do SoA content 100% of the time. They just want you to do SoA content 100% of the time after you've done enough of the old content that you don't suck anymore. tl;dr Go do NNI and Salvage II until you don't suck so bad, Bisous Bisous XO XO Matsui.

I just don't see why we couldn't get both things at the same time, why does it have to be one or the other instead of both?
(My RUN and GEO are level 99, for instance, and have been since like 1 week after expansion came out)

The RUN Empyrean is a black harness set kinda like WARs AF3+2

If your RUN and GEO are 99, then why do you want useless armor sets you're just going to leave on the porter moogle after the novelty of looking at them wears off?

I just wanted *both* things, at the same time.
If they wanted to add more high level job specific gear they could have just done that.
Not like the game doesn't have job specific gear aside from AFs.

AF is a thing, and that's a level 52-60 armor set that you get through job-specific quests and that it's upgradeable to a (useless) level 74 version.
This model has been valid for 20 other jobs, why do Geo and Run have to be the exception.
The "it's not max level" doesn't make sense to me. Not like 60 was the max level when they put AFs for PUP, BLU, COR, SCH and DNC into the game.

I wanted Geo and Run afs to be the same as every other afs, period.
And I would of course have liked a lot new job specific gear for Geo and Run, even a new in-game thing to upgrade all AFs (not just RUN and GEO) to level 99.
I don't like this tiered content model into FFXI a single bit.

sentimental value or phat town gear? :<

Gear from levels 1-74 and 76-98 are like, the absolute definition of "tiered content."

You don't want tiered content, but you want them to spend development resources on level 52-60 armor that will immediately be marginalized (because it's on a lower tier due to be equippable at a lower level)?

It actually wouldn't be too hard for them to think of a way to keep level 50-60 AF gear relevant (by giving it unique JA-boosting abilities and making sure to not overlap that with future Relic/Empyrean releases, I mean that happened for a really long time with a bunch of the AF anyway), but I do like the idea of keeping them relevant at the 99 cap better.

Though, I admit I like the "get AF at 60, just make AF+2 for ilv105" idea too- that probably would've taken them way longer to release though, for whatever reason (Why do they act like it's so hard to design the stats on the gear).

Has nothing to do with the way I used the definition.

"tiered content" in my previous post was opposed to the "horizontal" progression FFXI always had over the last 11 years.
Of course "horizontal" is just a simplification to emphasize the concept, I'm not trying to imply that there has never been progression in FFXI. It just was unlinear, and slower.

The "tiered content" I talked about was referred to the model made famous by WoW.
A small amount of differnet things to do that drop a correlated value of items, defined by a stat called "ilevel" (item level).
After a certain amount of time has passed, new, harder content of the same exact kind is added, that drops items with a higher ilevel.
Over and over and over and over again.

SoA model is the same, sort of.
You have a small amount of contents (Reives, Skirmish, Delve) and as time pass by new more difficult tiers of these content will be added, dropping better gear, in a never ending cycle.
This is what I meant, I don't like this model.

Or rather... I do like it, I just don't like it in a game like FFXI, that's it.


Surely, being the smart and experience player that you are, you're not as naive to believe that it wouldn't have taken them more than a couple of weeks to design lv 52-60 gear that could have easily be upgraded without major rehauls?
Old AF and old Relic needed more attention when they added the +1 and +2 version because they were never meant to be upgraded when they first introduced them.
But if you were to add a new piece now with this idea already in mind, it wouldn't really be as hard as someone wants to make it look like.
Everybody would have been happy that way.

On one side I'm okay with tiered content because it keeps the game from getting stale and the occasional "meh, [that] is still better." On the other hand, It totally phases out a portion of situational/niche gear from older content, and I totally see the bitterness in that

While I was one in the audience of people to expect AF/Relic/Empy to come from AF1 Quests/Dynamis/etc., it could have been interesting to see if there were level 50-60 AF quests for GEO and RUN, and then a sub-quest later on turns them into the level 99 pieces they're supposed to be- kinda like un-cursing abjuration gear. A lot of people would probably have been okay with that, but then again, we're also talking about the derps who actually kept their GEOs and RUNs at 40-60

It takes 0 weeks to not produce useless extra items.

Let's see how really useful these two AF sets will be and how long they will last, first.
FFXI is a game that managed to live this long ALSO because of the sidegrade with occasional upgrade model. You could tip the balance more towards one direction or towards the other as long as it's small movements.

But here we're talking about completely moving it toward a single direction, a different model that works well in other games which have been designed around it, but that's not gonna work well in a game like FFXI, imho.

It's ok to have such a model in WoW for instance. Aside from a couple of complicated trinket/set procs here and there, stats are really simple and straightforward, it's easy to have formulae that automatically decide how much of a certain stat that item is gonna have. You as a developer only pick the stats you want to pick on it, the formula automatically decides the amount according to the item level.
You don't have sidegrades most of the time, you cannot swap gear, you don't need situational gear. Usually when you change an item in a slot it's because you have another item which is undoubtely superior to the previous one.
And you do this very often, because each time a new "tier" of content is released, you completely change your gear. (I'm generalizing of course, but let's leave exceptions aside please)

How is this going to work in FFXI if, say, we get 3 new sets of gear with the next Delve tier?
And then one more with the one after?

Once again I may be wrong, but I don't see how this model can work in the long run in a game like FFXI, after the happyness-outburst of "OMG this new item is so cool!" that could drive the boat for all players in the beginning.
Maybe they're perfectly aware of it, maybe they just want to accelerate FFXI's death even more, and make it die with a lot of fireworks and everybody happy.
I had this impression when they first released Abyssea, but then they had to change their plans because of FFXIV's failure.
Coincidentally, this is happening again right before the launch of ARR.
Or maybe it's not a coincidence.

My bad... I forgot to change that part when I was posting earlier ._.;;;

Okipuit posted that :<

Content level 120 will be the apex for the forseeable future, with future Delve Naakuals being set to 120 and other content being added to bridge the gap between pre-SoA (content level 0) and Delve Naakuals. Basically, the way the game is set up now, they're letting us see what's on the Island before they build the bridge to it. They may raise the content-bar again in the near future, but it won't be for a while. My own qualms with the tiering system were alleviated when they actually released the diagram of how the content levels are meant to be set up.

What I am annoyed with and have been for a while is the "One size fits most! 3 Sets - Light/Heavy/Mage" mentality. I hope that when SE is done with RUN/GEO AF1/2/3 they add AF4 for all jobs somewhere around content levels 115-117. It's a shame when half the time you can't distinguish between two jobs without looking at their weapons or abilities they're using, and sometimes not even then.

More JSE, SE! Come on!

AF4 would be great, i wouldnt like it to be delve/plasm related though :< Too much ***to upgrade/get already :<

Ninja chainmail firstly. And secondly mythic GS or gtfo!

Where is this concept art that keeps being mentioned.

You are still awesome !!!!!!!!! :D