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Anti-Vaccination Legislative win in California
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 125
By Leviathan.Tribalprophet 2015-04-19 20:00:26
Ie:
There is a new medication found to reduce levels of anxiety and aggression. The government decides on mandatory administration of this medication to everyone starting at a young age and cites the mandatory vacation law as legal justification. Sh!t like this happens all the time btw.
That is a ridiculous jump in logic.
 Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9760
By Asura.Saevel 2015-04-19 20:02:04
Quote: You can choose not to... however Social Services would be round to your door in minutes and remove your kids due to being an unfit parent.
So you do use the power of the state to force people. Instead of taxing them or physically restraining them you just kidnap their children and hold them hostage, how benevolent of you. And of course you forcibly vaccinate the children regardless of either the childs or the parents desires. This is sounding more and more authoritarian by the minute. Next thing you know the state will force you to pay monthly extortion to the kidnappers or they will throw you in jail.
How wonderful these people must be that you speak of.
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 Cerberus.Conagh
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3189
By Cerberus.Conagh 2015-04-19 20:05:10
Quote: You can choose not to... however Social Services would be round to your door in minutes and remove your kids due to being an unfit parent.
So you do use the power of the state to force people. Instead of taxing them or physically restraining them you just kidnap their children and hold them hostage, how benevolent of you. And of course you forcibly vaccinate the children regardless of either the childs or the parents desires. This is sounding more and more authoritarian by the minute. Next thing you know the state will force you to pay monthly extortion to the kidnappers or they will throw you in jail.
How wonderful these people must be that you speak of.
Depends on whether you agree a parent who refuses to Vax their kids deserves to be a parent or not I guess.
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Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 470
By Asura.Wormfeeder 2015-04-19 20:05:35
Quote: You can choose not to... however Social Services would be round to your door in minutes and remove your kids due to being an unfit parent.
So you do use the power of the state to force people. Instead of taxing them or physically restraining them you just kidnap their children and hold them hostage, how benevolent of you. And of course you forcibly vaccinate the children regardless of either the childs or the parents desires. This is sounding more and more authoritarian by the minute. Next thing you know the state will force you to pay monthly extortion to the kidnappers or they will throw you in jail.
How wonderful these people must be that you speak of. Heck you already pay a weekly extortion fee in the form of taxes. Don't pay your taxes you go to jail.
Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9760
By Asura.Saevel 2015-04-19 20:06:41
Quote: That is a ridiculous jump in logic.
Haven't you been keeping up with government news? Governments do sh!t like that all the time, they take one law intended for one purpose and "interpret" it to grant them power for a radically different purpose.
Civil asset forfeiture is a perfect example of this. A law originally intended to enable law enforcement to go after the business assets of criminals has been "interpreted" to allow them to take and auction any property suspected (but not proven) to be involved in the conduct of a crime regardless of the property owners culpability.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States#Traffic_stops
https://www.aclu.org/issues/criminal-law-reform/reforming-police-practices/asset-forfeiture-abuse
It's now being used by police departments as a way to shore up their budgets.
The government will always abuse any power given to it, it's the nature of governments.
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Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 470
By Asura.Wormfeeder 2015-04-19 20:08:29
Quote: You can choose not to... however Social Services would be round to your door in minutes and remove your kids due to being an unfit parent.
So you do use the power of the state to force people. Instead of taxing them or physically restraining them you just kidnap their children and hold them hostage, how benevolent of you. And of course you forcibly vaccinate the children regardless of either the childs or the parents desires. This is sounding more and more authoritarian by the minute. Next thing you know the state will force you to pay monthly extortion to the kidnappers or they will throw you in jail.
How wonderful these people must be that you speak of. Commies oops liberal progressives are such nice people.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-04-19 20:12:27
I'd say that page 6 is too early for retardery, but thread's a rehash so I guess it doesn't matter.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 470
By Asura.Wormfeeder 2015-04-19 20:13:51
Quote: That is a ridiculous jump in logic.
Haven't you been keeping up with government news? Governments do sh!t like that all the time, they take one law intended for one purpose and "interpret" it to grant them power for a radically different purpose.
Civil asset forfeiture is a perfect example of this. A law originally intended to enable law enforcement to go after the business assets of criminals has been "interpreted" to allow them to take and auction any property suspected (but not proven) to be involved in the conduct of a crime regardless of the property owners culpability.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States#Traffic_stops
https://www.aclu.org/issues/criminal-law-reform/reforming-police-practices/asset-forfeiture-abuse
It's now being used by police departments as a way to shore up their budgets.
The government will always abuse any power given to it, it's the nature of governments. That is why you exercise your fifth amendment and forth amendment rights during a traffic stop. Only give them your drivers license insurance and registration, you are mot required to answer any other questions.
Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9760
By Asura.Saevel 2015-04-19 20:14:17
Quote: Depends on whether you agree a parent who refuses to Vax their kids deserves to be a parent or not I guess.
And what right do you have of making this determination? And more importantly what is the limit of the governments right to make these determinations. If the government decided that individuals who predominately voted democrat / progressive (or republican / conservative) didn't deserve to be parents, would you support the same actions be taken? A valid case could be made by both groups since, statistically, children often lean towards their parents political ideologies and thus if one entity deemed another ideology as evil / corrupt then they could justify such actions as "in the best interests of the children".
This is the way those in political power think. It's a very sociopathic thought process that can find justification for anything.
Even Hitler (yes I went there) had a plausible justification for all actions of the Nazi party, and those justifications seemed reasonable to an entire country even as the rest of the world looked on in horror.
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Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9760
By Asura.Saevel 2015-04-19 20:20:53
Quote: That is why you exercise your fifth amendment and forth amendment rights during a traffic stop. Only give them your drivers license insurance and registration, you are mot required to answer any other questions.
Neither of those stops civil asset forfeiture as currently interpreted because your property doesn't have constitutional protections and it's property they are persecuting. All that needs to happen is the office suspects your property was used in the commission of a crime, which is pretty easy to fabricate. The office can then confiscate the property.
It's a really f*cked up rule that blatantly violates the 4th and 5th amendments but was enabled because "drugs are bad, must save the children!", which sounds awfully similar to the arguments being presented here. "Give the government more power so it can protect you from bad things"
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2014/09/30/iowa-state-patrol-cash-seizure-illegal-gamblers-say/16511135/
Refusing for a search only gives you a much stronger case for sueing the sh!t out of the police later on as they can just invent a reason. Hell the IRS even decided to get a piece of the action and started seizing people's bank accounts and moving the money to the IRS general fund. The reasoin used was "the accounts have seen a lot of cash transaction and might have been used for illegal activity, thus we are seizing the assets". No investigation, no judge, no legal paperwork, they just take your account and you need to fight tooth and nail to "settle" for 30~50% of the contents of the account, before lawyers fees.
The point I've been trying to highlight is that Governments will ALWAYS abuse any power given to them. Power should always be channeled to the lowest level possible which ensures that those wielding that power are directly answerable to those who have the power wielded over them. Absolutely minimum power should be vested into a federal government as it can wield that power with impunity and is virtually answerable to no one.
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Cerberus.Conagh
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3189
By Cerberus.Conagh 2015-04-19 20:36:33
Quote: Depends on whether you agree a parent who refuses to Vax their kids deserves to be a parent or not I guess.
And what right do you have of making this determination? And more importantly what is the limit of the governments right to make these determinations. If the government decided that individuals who predominately voted democrat / progressive (or republican / conservative) didn't deserve to be parents, would you support the same actions be taken? A valid case could be made by both groups since, statistically, children often lean towards their parents political ideologies and thus if one entity deemed another ideology as evil / corrupt then they could justify such actions as "in the best interests of the children".
This is the way those in political power think. It's a very sociopathic thought process that can find justification for anything.
Even Hitler (yes I went there) had a plausible justification for all actions of the Nazi party, and those justifications seemed reasonable to an entire country even as the rest of the world looked on in horror.
Not an issue on my part, I believe in Vaccines, but I'm not some cook who believes in the power of Faith.
Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9760
By Asura.Saevel 2015-04-19 20:40:45
Quote: Not an issue on my part
Not an issue until the government shows up on your door step with some other reason to do something to you. And you evaded the question since the answer is very uncomfortable.
More examples of a government entity abusing power
http://www.ij.org/long-island-forfeiture
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Cerberus.Conagh
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3189
By Cerberus.Conagh 2015-04-19 20:45:00
Quote: Not an issue on my part
Not an issue until the government shows up on your door step with some other reason to do something to you. And you evaded the question since the answer is very uncomfortable.
More examples of a government entity abusing power
http://www.ij.org/long-island-forfeiture
Note evading the question, I honestly don't care.
If you don't Vaccine your kids, alot of people here would call you a ***parent, that's how we see it culturally, because we believe and I mean nearly all of us, that natural remedies are ***
 Lakshmi.Ryanx
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 712
By Lakshmi.Ryanx 2015-04-19 20:56:22
Quote: Not an issue on my part
Not an issue until the government shows up on your door step with some other reason to do something to you. And you evaded the question since the answer is very uncomfortable.
More examples of a government entity abusing power
http://www.ij.org/long-island-forfeiture
Note evading the question, I honestly don't care.
If you don't Vaccine your kids, alot of people here would call you a ***parent, that's how we see it culturally, because we believe and I mean nearly all of us, that natural remedies are *** That is how people are taught because natural works when you know what your doing you can cure alot of stuff that crazy world is said uncureable. There is no money in cureing people but you can make a fortune in "treating" them to make them handle life abit better well managing there illness.
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Cerberus.Conagh
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3189
By Cerberus.Conagh 2015-04-19 21:00:07
Quote: Not an issue on my part
Not an issue until the government shows up on your door step with some other reason to do something to you. And you evaded the question since the answer is very uncomfortable.
More examples of a government entity abusing power
http://www.ij.org/long-island-forfeiture
Note evading the question, I honestly don't care.
If you don't Vaccine your kids, alot of people here would call you a ***parent, that's how we see it culturally, because we believe and I mean nearly all of us, that natural remedies are *** That is how people are taught because natural works when you know what your doing you can cure alot of stuff that crazy world is said uncureable. There is no money in cureing people but you can make a fortune in "treating" them to make them handle life abit better well managing there illness.
I'm not disputing this, I merely pointed out culturally, people dont believe in "Natural Medicine" and would call someone a bad Parent as a result.
Now if you can show Natural Medicine with backed up Empiral data that actualy cures ***.
I'm all ears, until then then.
Hocus Pocus.
Lakshmi.Ryanx
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 712
By Lakshmi.Ryanx 2015-04-19 21:11:14
Quote: Not an issue on my part
Not an issue until the government shows up on your door step with some other reason to do something to you. And you evaded the question since the answer is very uncomfortable.
More examples of a government entity abusing power
http://www.ij.org/long-island-forfeiture
Note evading the question, I honestly don't care.
If you don't Vaccine your kids, alot of people here would call you a ***parent, that's how we see it culturally, because we believe and I mean nearly all of us, that natural remedies are *** That is how people are taught because natural works when you know what your doing you can cure alot of stuff that crazy world is said uncureable. There is no money in cureing people but you can make a fortune in "treating" them to make them handle life abit better well managing there illness.
I'm not disputing this, I merely pointed out culturally, people dont believe in "Natural Medicine" and would call someone a bad Parent as a result.
Now if you can show Natural Medicine with backed up Empiral data that actualy cures ***.
I'm all ears, until then then.
Hocus Pocus. evidence is out there but the greedy pharma company's do not want people to know what is going on. They do what they can to cover stuff up.
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By Jetackuu 2015-04-19 21:18:16
Quote: Not an issue on my part
Not an issue until the government shows up on your door step with some other reason to do something to you. And you evaded the question since the answer is very uncomfortable.
More examples of a government entity abusing power
http://www.ij.org/long-island-forfeiture
Note evading the question, I honestly don't care.
If you don't Vaccine your kids, alot of people here would call you a ***parent, that's how we see it culturally, because we believe and I mean nearly all of us, that natural remedies are *** It really has little to nothing to do with belief, more to do with knowledge.
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Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3618
By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-04-19 21:25:26
Now if you can show Natural Medicine with backed up Empiral data that actualy cures ***. Then it wouldn't be "natural medicine," it'd just be "medicine."
Seriously, any time someone needs to throw an adjective in front of a word, be a little suspect.
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Lakshmi.Ryanx
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 712
By Lakshmi.Ryanx 2015-04-19 23:12:23
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By EpicFantasy 2015-04-19 23:33:23
At least the swine flu didn't kill them?
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-19 23:34:12
I leave for one weekend, and California can't keep it's ***straight!?!?!?!
Well, it is lolcalifornia.
Lakshmi.Ryanx said: infowars... And vaccines are supposed to be safe???? They are, don't believe anything you hear from infowars. They have as much accuracy as a blind bowsman.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 546
By Asura.Ivlilla 2015-04-19 23:48:32
I leave for one weekend, and California can't keep it's ***straight!?!?!?!
Well, it is lolcalifornia.
Why is Calignfornia like a breakfast cereal?
It is full of fruits, nuts, and flakes.
The best thing about all the California jokes is the dry humor.
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Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-04-19 23:50:40
Swine flu was an inside job ༼ つ◕(oo)◕༽つ
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Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-19 23:55:38
Swine flu was an inside job ༼ つ◕(oo)◕༽つ By the chicken lobby to keep people from eating bacon.
~Pigception~
Server: Asura
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Posts: 546
By Asura.Ivlilla 2015-04-19 23:55:51
Swine flu was an inside job ༼ つ◕(oo)◕༽つ
And the Lusitania was a pretext for US entry into WW1, despite the fact that Germany was entirely in the right in sinking it.
Wait a minute...
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Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 546
By Asura.Ivlilla 2015-04-20 00:05:39
Swine flu was an inside job ༼ つ◕(oo)◕༽つ By the chicken lobby to keep people from eating bacon.
~Pigception~
Well, after the psyop campaigns by the pig industry to make bacon a breakfast food, and the coffee industry's invention of the coffee break, to boost sales, you never know.
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By EpicFantasy 2015-04-20 00:31:28
Swine flu was an inside job ༼ つ◕(oo)◕༽つ By the chicken lobby to keep people from eating bacon.
~Pigception~
Well, after the psyop campaigns by the pig industry to make bacon a breakfast food, and the coffee industry's invention of the coffee break, to boost sales, you never know.
Bacon needed a campaign?
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 546
By Asura.Ivlilla 2015-04-20 00:38:37
Swine flu was an inside job ༼ つ◕(oo)◕༽つ By the chicken lobby to keep people from eating bacon.
~Pigception~
Well, after the psyop campaigns by the pig industry to make bacon a breakfast food, and the coffee industry's invention of the coffee break, to boost sales, you never know.
Bacon needed a campaign?
Bacon being a breakfast food is a relatively recent thing. I think it started in early 20th century, like the coffee break.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 546
By Asura.Ivlilla 2015-04-20 00:41:43
You do know that basically all of modern advertising was founded by a relative of Sigmund Freud, under the theory that you could exploit people's own minds and use them against them to make them buy stuff?
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Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2020
By Siren.Lordgrim 2015-04-20 00:46:49
Quote: You can choose not to... however Social Services would be round to your door in minutes and remove your kids due to being an unfit parent.
So you do use the power of the state to force people. Instead of taxing them or physically restraining them you just kidnap their children and hold them hostage, how benevolent of you. And of course you forcibly vaccinate the children regardless of either the childs or the parents desires. This is sounding more and more authoritarian by the minute. Next thing you know the state will force you to pay monthly extortion to the kidnappers or they will throw you in jail.
How wonderful these people must be that you speak of.
They already extort in the us every April 15th saying you have a voluntary compliance to pay the income tax. How weird to use terminology that says you have a choice to not comply yet reserve the right to forcibly steal from you. Sounds like paying for mafia protection. That does not sound like the America we was founded on.
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Quote: California anti-vaxxers, while relatively few in number, continue to wield outsize influence in the state. Over the winter, California suffered an outbreak of measles after an unvaccinated person visited Disneyland, prompting lawmakers to draft legislation designed to increase the state's vaccination rates.
But on Wednesday, state legislators could not answer a key question raised by the bill—should unvaccinated children be denied access to public schools?—after hundreds of parents opposed to mandatory vaccines for school children, according to the San Jose Mercury News, appeared before the Senate Education Committee to protest the bill, SB 277.
The bill would have done away with California's controversial 'personal belief exemptions,' which allow parents to choose not to vaccinate their children on the basis of their own personal beliefs. California is one of 20 states that allow such exemptions. More than a quarter of California schools have measles vaccination rates lower than those recommended by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, according to The New York Times.
The bill's author, State Senator Dr. Richard Pan, a pediatrician, was forced to delay a vote in the Senate Education Committee after some of his fellow lawmakers said they would not vote for a bill that excluded unvaccinated children from public schools. Proponents of the bill spoke for about seven minutes, according to The Sacramento Bee, while opposed parents spent more than two hours arguing against it. “I think maybe some of the senators were taken aback by the ferocity of passion that they saw there, and that might have been impactful,” State Senator Ben Allen, a co-author of SB277, told the Bee.
The issue of mandatory vaccinations is contentious in California, where, according to the Contra Costa Times, more than 13,000 kindergartners are unvaccinated for personal or religious reasons. Perhaps hoping to sway public opinion, Pan and Allen penned an op-ed in The Fresno Bee titled "SB 277 protects children from horrific diseases."
Meanwhile, Pan is speaking with various stakeholders to try to find a path forward for the legislation. If he is unable to craft a compromise in one week's time, his bill will likely die in committee—a fate similar bills in Oregon and Washington suffered after facing similar opposition.
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