Anti-Vaccination Legislative Win In California

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Anti-Vaccination Legislative win in California
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 Odin.Godofgods
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By Odin.Godofgods 2015-04-17 17:49:03
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California anti-vaxxers, while relatively few in number, continue to wield outsize influence in the state. Over the winter, California suffered an outbreak of measles after an unvaccinated person visited Disneyland, prompting lawmakers to draft legislation designed to increase the state's vaccination rates.

But on Wednesday, state legislators could not answer a key question raised by the bill—should unvaccinated children be denied access to public schools?—after hundreds of parents opposed to mandatory vaccines for school children, according to the San Jose Mercury News, appeared before the Senate Education Committee to protest the bill, SB 277.

The bill would have done away with California's controversial 'personal belief exemptions,' which allow parents to choose not to vaccinate their children on the basis of their own personal beliefs. California is one of 20 states that allow such exemptions. More than a quarter of California schools have measles vaccination rates lower than those recommended by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, according to The New York Times.

The bill's author, State Senator Dr. Richard Pan, a pediatrician, was forced to delay a vote in the Senate Education Committee after some of his fellow lawmakers said they would not vote for a bill that excluded unvaccinated children from public schools. Proponents of the bill spoke for about seven minutes, according to The Sacramento Bee, while opposed parents spent more than two hours arguing against it. “I think maybe some of the senators were taken aback by the ferocity of passion that they saw there, and that might have been impactful,” State Senator Ben Allen, a co-author of SB277, told the Bee.

The issue of mandatory vaccinations is contentious in California, where, according to the Contra Costa Times, more than 13,000 kindergartners are unvaccinated for personal or religious reasons. Perhaps hoping to sway public opinion, Pan and Allen penned an op-ed in The Fresno Bee titled "SB 277 protects children from horrific diseases."

Meanwhile, Pan is speaking with various stakeholders to try to find a path forward for the legislation. If he is unable to craft a compromise in one week's time, his bill will likely die in committee—a fate similar bills in Oregon and Washington suffered after facing similar opposition.

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By Wordspoken 2015-04-17 17:53:09
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"take the warning labels off and let the problem solve itself"?

I'm a bad person, please forgive me.
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By fonewear 2015-04-17 17:58:34
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Wordspoken said: »
"take the warning labels off and let the problem solve itself"?

I'm a bad person, please forgive me.

I'm a bad person too but I don't care !
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-04-17 18:02:22
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This is pathetic, certain portions of the social contract are non-negotiable. If you choose not to vaccinate your kids, you are choosing to endanger the health of everyone else's kids. Rights to personal beliefs do not trump everyone else's rights to not be infected by your special little Typhoid Mary.
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By fonewear 2015-04-17 18:04:29
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Won't someone please think of the children. Hey it actually applies to this !
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 Phoenix.Amandarius
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2015-04-17 19:20:10
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It's hard to blame people that succumb to propaganda and organized campaigns of misinformation and junk "science". Yes I am referring to global warming fanatics.
 Leviathan.Protey
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By Leviathan.Protey 2015-04-17 19:24:55
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Odin.Jassik said: »
This is pathetic, certain portions of the social contract are non-negotiable. If you choose not to vaccinate your kids, you are choosing to endanger the health of everyone else's kids. Rights to personal beliefs do not trump everyone else's rights to not be infected by your special little Typhoid Mary.

If you are vaccinated how are you in danger?
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By charlo999 2015-04-17 19:42:32
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As well as that, getting measles is no where near the danger the statistics say. Which incorporates a global statistic, based on mostly 3rd world countries, with little to no health care and extremely poor hygiene. Especially as death are from other complications and not measles itself.
Out of recent outbreaks in the first world the danger of death has been under 1%. How many of these 13000 kindergarten kids have died?
Using old and globalised figures to push mandatory vaccinations is stupid scare propaganda.
It is actually benificial in the long term for our immune system to naterally get and overcome desease.
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By Jetackuu 2015-04-17 19:48:56
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Leviathan.Protey said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
This is pathetic, certain portions of the social contract are non-negotiable. If you choose not to vaccinate your kids, you are choosing to endanger the health of everyone else's kids. Rights to personal beliefs do not trump everyone else's rights to not be infected by your special little Typhoid Mary.

If you are vaccinated how are you in danger?
/facepalm
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 Odin.Godofgods
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By Odin.Godofgods 2015-04-17 19:49:34
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i feel obligated...

Edit: since it doesnt want to play anywhere else.. ><
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gku93laoec
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By Bloodrose 2015-04-17 19:52:35
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"tell me what she has..."

"A cold."
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 Phoenix.Demonjustin
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By Phoenix.Demonjustin 2015-04-17 20:10:09
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Odin.Godofgods said: »
i feel obligated...

Edit: since it doesnt want to play anywhere else.. ><
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gku93laoec
I think you should look at this site good sir.

http://howdovaccinescauseautism.com/
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-04-17 20:12:10
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Phoenix.Demonjustin said: »
Odin.Godofgods said: »
i feel obligated...

Edit: since it doesnt want to play anywhere else.. ><
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gku93laoec
I think you should look at this site good sir.

http://howdovaccinescauseautism.com/

That is an excellent source. It pretty much tells you everything you need to know to make an informed decision.
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-04-17 20:20:46
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Leviathan.Protey said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
This is pathetic, certain portions of the social contract are non-negotiable. If you choose not to vaccinate your kids, you are choosing to endanger the health of everyone else's kids. Rights to personal beliefs do not trump everyone else's rights to not be infected by your special little Typhoid Mary.

If you are vaccinated how are you in danger?

Some kids legitimately cannot be vaccinated because of immune system or other medical conditions. They would represent a very low risk otherwise. Why is it that people with no medical background think that doctors haven't already considered these things when recommending vaccination?
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 Cerberus.Conagh
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2015-04-17 20:21:11
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Jetackuu said: »
Leviathan.Protey said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
This is pathetic, certain portions of the social contract are non-negotiable. If you choose not to vaccinate your kids, you are choosing to endanger the health of everyone else's kids. Rights to personal beliefs do not trump everyone else's rights to not be infected by your special little Typhoid Mary.

If you are vaccinated how are you in danger?
/facepalm

I'll Bite:

Herd Protection:

Vaccinations do not provide immunity, just a DRASTIC increase in reistance, i.e a radiation suit can resist x amount of radiation, but not infinite.

if say your entire Herd is resistant, and you walk by a diseased area, none get it, everyone wins, if say 1 isn't resistant and gets it, you then don't have 1 chance to get infected, the herd is carrying the infection which increases the chances of other members getting sick, which then encourages evolution / mutation of the disease which can then by pass your resistance.

That's it in a rather simplistic overview.
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 Odin.Liela
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By Odin.Liela 2015-04-17 20:21:12
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Leviathan.Protey said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
This is pathetic, certain portions of the social contract are non-negotiable. If you choose not to vaccinate your kids, you are choosing to endanger the health of everyone else's kids. Rights to personal beliefs do not trump everyone else's rights to not be infected by your special little Typhoid Mary.

If you are vaccinated how are you in danger?

Google "herd immunity" if you're genuinely curious.

Edit: Never mind, Conagh beat me to it. ^^
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 Leviathan.Protey
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By Leviathan.Protey 2015-04-17 20:38:54
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one is a carrier regardless of one having a vaccine or not.
 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-04-17 20:40:00
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If only disease worked the way you seem to think it works!
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 Cerberus.Anjisnu
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By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2015-04-17 20:42:18
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so can we get anti-vax people put on the same government listings as sex offenders ? just give em a different color
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 Leviathan.Protey
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By Leviathan.Protey 2015-04-17 20:45:11
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
If only disease worked the way you seem to think it works!

They do. Or do you honestly believe you can't transmit a disease to others even though you've had a vaccine against it?
 Cerberus.Conagh
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2015-04-17 20:47:35
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Leviathan.Protey said: »
one is a carrier regardless of one having a vaccine or not.

As I said, its resistance to, not immunity, Vaccinations do decrease the chances of you even becoming a carrier.

But someone having no resistance can have a far greater chance, influenza being anywhere up to 5x more likely to get sick as a result.

Look at it this way.

Stop signs stop traffic, now imagine thers 5 drivers, and one almost hits me.

You remove the stop signs (or vaccines) then 5 cars nearly hit me... my chances of not getting hit, just dropped by a ***tonne.

That's literally the best way I can explain it, if people still don't get why everyone being vaccinated helps, maybe they should go see why ebola is like kicking an entires countries *** that doesn't believe in vaccinations.
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 Cerberus.Conagh
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2015-04-17 20:49:03
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Leviathan.Protey said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
If only disease worked the way you seem to think it works!

They do. Or do you honestly believe you can't transmit a disease to others even though you've had a vaccine against it?

I don't see anyone saying "immune" for the record, no ones saying its will guaranteed save you, but if someone said "take this it'll increase your chance of winning he lottery by 10x" you'd probably do it.
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By Bloodrose 2015-04-17 20:51:59
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Conagh, you should know by now, you can't reason with people who will try to discredit sound science with people who try to sell non-licensed medical practices and all natural homeopathic stuff at far greater prices than 40 bucks a year for a vaccine, despite the all natural ***costing them money in the thousands, and increased medical costs later on due to hospitalization.
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 Cerberus.Anjisnu
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By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2015-04-17 20:55:07
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beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep! chartreuse alert! some dumbfuck let his kid go to school with diseases that can kill your child if you see this little ***machine throw shopping carts and or cinder blocks at it do not approach! (i have given my brain too much free time)
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 Leviathan.Protey
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By Leviathan.Protey 2015-04-17 21:13:01
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Cerberus.Conagh said: »
Leviathan.Protey said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
If only disease worked the way you seem to think it works!

They do. Or do you honestly believe you can't transmit a disease to others even though you've had a vaccine against it?

I don't see anyone saying "immune" for the record, no ones saying its will guaranteed save you, but if someone said "take this it'll increase your chance of winning he lottery by 10x" you'd probably do it.

I'm not in disagreement with you, I'm just in disagreement with Jassik saying that by not getting vaccinated you are endangering others. The people who do not get vaccinated are in danger regardless if the people around them have vaccines or not because anyone can be a carrier. The only way to improve your safety is to either get the vaccine or live in a plastic bubble. Yes someone who is vaccinated will probably be asymptomatic and therefore spread less, but even asymptomatic people can spread (i.e.: Typhoid Mary).
 Asura.Ivlilla
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By Asura.Ivlilla 2015-04-17 21:17:32
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Protey, if 70% of the population had been vaccinated against Typhoid, Typhoid Mary would not have been as big of a problem as she was.

And, for the record, Typhoid Mary was a problem because she just did not give a ***. Which is the problem with most antivaxxers today. They just do not give a *** about the rest of society.
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By Bloodrose 2015-04-17 21:18:48
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But you *are* endangering others.

AS has been pointed out in every single anti-vax thread, there are people who *can not*, for one reason or another, receive the vaccine that would boost auto-immunity resistances, particularly against virulent strains of diseases that should have, or have at one point been eradicated.

Which is why, those that *can* be vaccinated, *should* be vaccinated, to prevent the unnecessary and uncontrollable spread of diseases like measles.
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 Leviathan.Protey
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By Leviathan.Protey 2015-04-17 21:19:04
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Cerberus.Conagh said: »
Leviathan.Protey said: »
one is a carrier regardless of one having a vaccine or not.

As I said, its resistance to, not immunity, Vaccinations do decrease the chances of you even becoming a carrier.

But someone having no resistance can have a far greater chance, influenza being anywhere up to 5x more likely to get sick as a result.

Look at it this way.

Stop signs stop traffic, now imagine thers 5 drivers, and one almost hits me.

You remove the stop signs (or vaccines) then 5 cars nearly hit me... my chances of not getting hit, just dropped by a ***tonne.

That's literally the best way I can explain it, if people still don't get why everyone being vaccinated helps, maybe they should go see why ebola is like kicking an entires countries *** that doesn't believe in vaccinations.

I wouldn't use ebola as an example. They only started testing possible vaccines for it recently. Can't immunize with a vaccine that doesn't exist.
 Leviathan.Protey
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By Leviathan.Protey 2015-04-17 21:20:09
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Bloodrose said: »
But you *are* endangering others.

AS has been pointed out in every single anti-vax thread, there are people who *can not*, for one reason or another, receive the vaccine that would boost auto-immunity resistances, particularly against virulent strains of diseases that should have, or have at one point been eradicated.

Which is why, those that *can* be vaccinated, *should* be vaccinated, to prevent the unnecessary and uncontrollable spread of diseases like measles.

You can still be a carrier regardless.
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By Bloodrose 2015-04-17 21:23:36
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So that alone proves that diseases don't work the way you think they do.

Being a carrier is part of the why and how diseases mutate and spread, particularly among those who are not vaccinated, which further mutates the strain, to a point it can bypass natural immune-resistances.

The less carriers there are, which drops as more people are vaccinated. and also inhibits the spreading of the disease among others, the less it can spread.

So far, your only argument against vaccines is "well, people carry the disease anyways", when largely, they do not once immunized/vaccinated.
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