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St. Louis, Missouri Vs. The Police: Heaven or Hell, Duel 1! Let's rock!
By Voren 2014-08-19 20:39:46
/shrug
I like watching people get teargassed... what can I say?
and I LOVE the new sparkly exploding gas cartridges... I have got to get me some of these.
I'll see your flashbang grenade and raise you a stinger grenade. About 100 tiny rubber pellets that explode from the canister and hit all the things. Anyone ever see The Longest Yard remake with adam sandler? They use one in that.
By Voren 2014-08-19 20:41:29
What do we want Jordans ! When do we want it now !
FTFY
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By Voren 2014-08-19 20:42:53
So apparently there has been another officer-related slaying of an African-American male, about 3 miles from where Michael Brown was killed.
Quote: 3:05 p.m. ET: St. Louis Police Chief Sam Dotson said the suspect, a 23-year-old African-American male, had been involved in a convenience store theft early Tuesday afternoon and was seen acting eratically. When two officers stopped him, the suspect shouted, "Shoot me! Kill me now!" The suspect refused verbal commands to stop and approached the officers holding a knife in an "overhand grip," getting within three or four feet of them, police said. Both officers fired at the suspect, killing him.
"Every police officer out here has the right to defend themselves," Dotson told reporters.
SourceThis calls for more looting! If this is the same department, this calls for something more along the lines of suspending the whole department pending investigation, and bringing in another agency in the interim. I disagree in part. If the account is accurate, shooting him was warranted. Lethal force, on the other hand, was not.
What? Since when was using a firearm not considered lethal force?
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-08-19 21:49:10
Wasn't sure which thread to put this in as the Iraq thread is beat, so here. (mentions Missouri anyway)
Quote: Last week was a weird one for American military hardware.
In the United States, Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles (MRAPs), AR-15s and camouflage body armor all made an appearance on the streets of a suburb in the heartland, helping to give a tense situation the push needed to turn into a week of riots. American citizens in Ferguson, Missouri, feeling they were being occupied by a foreign army, rather than their friendly neighborhood cop on the beat.
Riot police stand guard as demonstrators protest the shooting death of teenager Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri
MRAPs didn’t get a better rap overseas, either. In what’s still being called Iraq — at least for the sake of convenience — the U.S. Air Force has resumed bombing missions in the northern part of the “country.” The aim of the missions is stated as being the defense of a minority group known as the Yazidis, who practice a religion unique to themselves and are under threat by the Islamic State, a jihadi group that controls a large chunk of territory in Syria and Iraq.
The extremist cadre Islamic State — which has declared itself to be the new caliphate, representing God’s will on earth — has had an incredible string of military successes over the last few months. They’ve taken a lot of territory. They’ve slaughtered a lot of people, including civilians. They’ve imposed what they say is Islamic law — though many Islamic scholars would beg to disagree.
And Islamic State’s captured an enormous amount of U.S. weaponry, originally intended for the rebuilt Iraqi Army. You know — the one that collapsed in terror in front of the Islamic State, back when they were just ISIL? The ones who dropped their uniforms, and rifles and ran away?
They left behind the bigger equipment, too, including M1 Abrams tanks (about $6 million each), 52 M198 Howitzer cannons ($527,337), and MRAPs (about $1 million) similar to the ones in use in Ferguson.
Now, U.S. warplanes are flying sorties, at a cost somewhere between $22,000 to 30,000 per hour for the F-16s, to drop bombs that cost at least $20,000 each, to destroy this captured equipment.
That means if an F-16 were to take off from Incirclik Air Force Base in Turkey and fly two hours to Erbil, Iraq, and successfully drop both of its bombs on one target each, it costs the United States somewhere between $84,000 to $104,000 for the sortie and destroys a minimum of $1 million and a maximum of $12 million in U.S.-made equipment.
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By Asura.Echandra 2014-08-19 22:35:46
does that count as cleaning up after ourselves?
By tazkwondo 2014-08-19 23:13:26
You know, if the store clerk had shot him for the robbery he was committing, we may not even be having this conversation. You can't really say they're unarmed when they're armed with the stupidity.
By Voren 2014-08-20 00:06:48
Just for giggles, according to the FBI 678 people were killed by unarmed suspects in 2012. It's listed as personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc).
Source
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2014-08-20 00:17:55
Just for giggles, according to the FBI 678 people were killed by unarmed suspects in 2012. It's listed as personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc).
Source
Something, Chuck Norris something 678 something something something something 2012.
Now we won't have to suffer ten pages of stupid jokes.
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 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2014-08-20 00:19:18
What? Since when was using a firearm not considered lethal force? That's the point. Cops in America have two modes. Restrain and kill. Nothing in between. Put one in each leg. He won't be stabbing anyone. It CAN kill, but it's not 6 bullets to the trunk.
By Voren 2014-08-20 00:40:41
What? Since when was using a firearm not considered lethal force? That's the point. Cops in America have two modes. Restrain and kill. Nothing in between. Put one in each leg. He won't be stabbing anyone. It CAN kill, but it's not 6 bullets to the trunk.
In a perfect setting with everything scripted yes this would work. Unfortunately we live in reality where this isn't something that can be done effectively all the time, or even a part of the time.
We're trained to stop the threat. In just a few seconds time we have to evaluate the situation, reflect upon the use of force policy, decide which use of force applies to the particular situation, and then apply it, but also come up with a plan B in case plan A fails. Oh, and make sure not to hit any of the dumbass onlookers who are too piss ignorant to leave the area.
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Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2014-08-20 00:54:26
What? Since when was using a firearm not considered lethal force? That's the point. Cops in America have two modes. Restrain and kill. Nothing in between. Put one in each leg. He won't be stabbing anyone. It CAN kill, but it's not 6 bullets to the trunk.
In a perfect setting with everything scripted yes this would work. Unfortunately we live in reality where this isn't something that can be done effectively all the time, or even a part of the time.
We're trained to stop the threat. In just a few seconds time we have to evaluate the situation, reflect upon the use of force policy, decide which use of force applies to the particular situation, and then apply it, but also come up with a plan B in case plan A fails. Oh, and make sure not to hit any of the dumbass onlookers who are too piss ignorant to leave the area. I understand that, believe me.
Situations like this knife incident however, make me wonder if police are trained properly to consider and employ non-lethal arms fire.
 Valefor.Blizz
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By Valefor.Blizz 2014-08-20 01:00:07
Living in Missouri and being close to Saint Louis, this whole situation upsets me and makes me laugh at the same time.
First since Martial Law was put into effect and now the police have back up with the National guard is big enough. Now you have the president *** with due process of law. By placeing an order to expidite the grand jury hearing. And to assign the US Atorny general to oversea the case.
I can understand local goverment gave the case to state, and then State giving the investigation to the FBI. But the *** bottom line is this is a case about "Justified Homicide or Manslaughter" those are the only charges that appy to this case from a legal standpoint. I find this a complete and utter abuse of power from the president and all the media and there *** agendas is going to do is make it next to imposible for the officer to get a fair and just trial, without doing countless change of venue and several mistrials due to leaked information and the endless media coverege and whatever news covrage planned hidden agenda is out there.
Now as an American and for the people who are lawfully and peacefully protesting and there plans to move there areas of active protest to more viable areas ie the PA office City hall ect. I appluad this and hopefully this will end the gangbangers, atention seekers, non local people easier to get locked up. This is not a *** case about race White vs Black. This is a very simple case of Blue vs the public and was it within the colour of the law. And to let our Justice system handle it. People are human, people make mistakes, let a fair trial, all the facts come out and let the jury decide.
As for my opinion about the case with current facts known its this simple. Fact the guy went for the officers gun and a shot went off. This alone justifys force up to deadly force.
Fact 2 in the next few seconds distance was spaced but still within 20-30 feet which is still a viable threat to impose seriously body harm. it only takes 1-2 sec to cover that much ground. let the forsinic evideance experts present the hidden story.
Fact 3 to my knowledge 2 cruicial pieces of eveidance have not been leaked yet the officers dash cam and if the officer activated his audiable mic to record. or other forms of video survalance from the area. to prove mind set and fear for life.
Fact 4 Every officer in any acedemy is taught and drilled in their head "When its time to go to guns its time to go to guns" and if you understand esculation of force and justification use of force. We as officer do not shoot in the arm to disable or give warning shots, you watch to much tv. when the time comes and our weapon is drawn and that final saftey choice of putting our finger on the trigger. We shoot to eliminate the treat. If it takes 1 shot or 15+ most people dont even understand the parasympithetic and sympothetic nervous system. to shoot effectively under a flight or flight situation is extremly hard as shooting a pistol is a fine motor skill and takes countless hrs of trainning to be effective. in most case only military gets to put that many rounds down range to get to high lvl of profeciancy under extreme stress.
I hope the officer gets a fair trial for doing his job. But with the presidential now influance i see this turning into nothing more than a cluster ***.
Worst President in US History is Obama hands down. I thought babay bush was bad but 8 years of this crap he wins by a landslide. should Impeach Obama the man has failed on every front. But thats just my opinion.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-20 07:17:09
Now you have the president *** with due process of law. I find this a complete and utter abuse of power from the president and all the media and there *** agendas is going to do is make it next to imposible for the officer to get a fair and just trial
Incoming Obama Apologists claiming that Blizz is a racist.
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By fonewear 2014-08-20 07:26:35
I thought Obama was also on the Supreme Court though...
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By Fenrir.Squintik 2014-08-20 07:41:38
What? Since when was using a firearm not considered lethal force? That's the point. Cops in America have two modes. Restrain and kill. Nothing in between. Put one in each leg. He won't be stabbing anyone. It CAN kill, but it's not 6 bullets to the trunk.
In a perfect setting with everything scripted yes this would work. Unfortunately we live in reality where this isn't something that can be done effectively all the time, or even a part of the time.
We're trained to stop the threat. In just a few seconds time we have to evaluate the situation, reflect upon the use of force policy, decide which use of force applies to the particular situation, and then apply it, but also come up with a plan B in case plan A fails. Oh, and make sure not to hit any of the dumbass onlookers who are too piss ignorant to leave the area. I understand that, believe me.
Situations like this knife incident however, make me wonder if police are trained properly to consider and employ non-lethal arms fire.
I thought cops carried Tasers and pepperspray for this.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-08-20 07:43:06
Foreign forces have invaded Missouri.
Quote: Civil rights leaders and police - at odds over much of what has occurred in this small, mostly black St. Louis suburb - agree on at least one hypothesis: Many of the perpetrators are not local residents.
At times, the most violent element hide in alleys, emerging to throw rocks or bottles before disappearing again. Others are caught and taken into custody.
After Monday's violence, 56 people were arrested overnight, most on a charge of failure to disperse, according to the St. Louis County Justice Services Center. It said 15 were from outside Missouri, although the more serious charge of unlawful use of weapon was brought against two locals.
Time to drop some bombs of peace and prosperity on St. Louis yet?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-20 07:43:37
I thought Obama was also on the Supreme Court though... Obama is all 9 Justices on the Supreme Court, all 100 Senators and all 435 House members. So said Executive Order #5323413.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-20 07:44:54
Foreign forces have invaded Missouri.
Quote: Civil rights leaders and police - at odds over much of what has occurred in this small, mostly black St. Louis suburb - agree on at least one hypothesis: Many of the perpetrators are not local residents.
At times, the most violent element hide in alleys, emerging to throw rocks or bottles before disappearing again. Others are caught and taken into custody.
After Monday's violence, 56 people were arrested overnight, most on a charge of failure to disperse, according to the St. Louis County Justice Services Center. It said 15 were from outside Missouri, although the more serious charge of unlawful use of weapon was brought against two locals.
Time to drop some bombs of peace and prosperity on St. Louis yet? I thought they were missiles of love?
By fonewear 2014-08-20 07:45:25
Who needs facts when this guy was guilty from the start. That is how justice works I'm angry someone has to pay !
Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2014-08-20 11:57:41
....
Time to drop some bombs of peace and prosperity on St. Louis yet? No, its time to drop voter registration cards.
.
Missouri GOP Director Denounces Voter Registration Efforts In Ferguson
Quote: ....
Missouri Republican Party executive director Matt Wills called the actions "disgusting" and told Breitbart News the activists are "fanning the political flames."
....
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-08-20 11:58:49
Foreign forces have invaded Missouri.
Quote: Civil rights leaders and police - at odds over much of what has occurred in this small, mostly black St. Louis suburb - agree on at least one hypothesis: Many of the perpetrators are not local residents.
At times, the most violent element hide in alleys, emerging to throw rocks or bottles before disappearing again. Others are caught and taken into custody.
After Monday's violence, 56 people were arrested overnight, most on a charge of failure to disperse, according to the St. Louis County Justice Services Center. It said 15 were from outside Missouri, although the more serious charge of unlawful use of weapon was brought against two locals.
Time to drop some bombs of peace and prosperity on St. Louis yet? I thought they were missiles of love? In America it's bombs of peace and prosperity.
 Cerberus.Detzu
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By Cerberus.Detzu 2014-08-20 12:32:24
Who needs facts when this guy was guilty from the start. That is how justice works I'm angry someone has to pay !
If you consider black guy is guilty for being born then...
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2014-08-20 12:36:04
Who needs facts when this guy was guilty from the start. That is how justice works I'm angry someone has to pay !
If you consider black guy is guilty for being born then...
don't mind fone, he thought his comment was a joke.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-20 12:37:11
Who needs facts when this guy was guilty from the start. That is how justice works I'm angry someone has to pay !
If you consider black guy is guilty for being born then... 
Fonewear isn't serious 97.31814354% of the time.
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By Fumiku 2014-08-20 12:52:02
Who needs facts when this guy was guilty from the start. That is how justice works I'm angry someone has to pay !
If you consider black guy is guilty for being born then...
Fonewear isn't serious 97.31814354% of the time.
only 97.31814354%?! Fowear you be slippin' man!
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Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-08-20 13:32:13
What about the other 2.68185646%?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-20 13:33:26
What about the other 2.68185646%? somewhat serious, in various degrees.
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Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-08-20 14:05:25
What about the other 2.68185646%?
I'm sick of the 2.68185646% of Americans making all the money and holding the rest of us down. Wait, what are we talking about again?
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Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-08-20 14:12:20
What about the other 2.68185646%?
I'm sick of the 2.68185646% of Americans making all the money and holding the rest of us down. Wait, what are we talking about again?
We were, at one point, talking about how celebs need to become more varied in their hotness rather than trying to all fit into the same mould.
But people keep talking about this depressing-*** police shooting stuff.
Edit: Time for fun with hyphens. Instead of "depressing-*** police shooting" we should talk about "depression ***-police shooting".
By fonewear 2014-08-20 14:21:35
What about the other 2.68185646%?
The other 2% and change I'm a tree hugging liberal feminist.
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To recap the events going on:
It all started with this:
Quote: The fatal shooting of an unarmed black St. Louis teen Saturday has caused an outcry of anger toward the city’s police, with locals rallying in the streets and widening uproar on social media.
Eighteen-year-old Michael Brown was being placed in a police squad car, eyewitness Piaget Crenshaw told the St. Louis Dispatch, when he put his hands in the air and attempted to flee. Several shots hit him as he ran away.
St. Louis County police chief Jon Belmar said Sunday that Brown struggled for the officer’s gun in the patrol car and that one shot was fired from the officer’s gun during the tussle. The officer fired multiple shots at Brown as he fled, Belmar said.
Anger flared the rest of the day after Brown’s death, as protesters screamed obscenities mixed with threats to “kill the police,” and more than 60 area police officers responded to the scene. More shots were reported, though no one was injured.
Then this happened:
Quote: An uneasy calm settled over Ferguson, Missouri, early Tuesday after a second night of violent clashes between law enforcement and residents protesting the police shooting of an unarmed black teenager, with another demonstration planned for mid-morning.
So far, more than 50 people have been arrested in protests following the death of Michael Brown, 18, in a largely black St. Louis suburb on Saturday after what police officials said was a struggle with a gun in a squad car.
The FBI has opened a civil rights investigation into the racially charged case, and St. Louis County is also investigating the shooting.
Police have not said why Brown was in the police car. At least one shot was fired during the struggle, and then the officer fired more shots before leaving the car, police said.
Chanting "hands up, don’t shoot," protesters overnight challenged police trying to seal off the neighborhood where Brown was shot, a low-income, high-crime area east of downtown Ferguson. Some protesters said they were outraged that Brown appeared to have been shot while holding his hands up in surrender, calling the shooting the latest in a long history of police harassment of area minorities.
"They brought this on themselves," said 25-year-old Adam Burcher of Ferguson, who stood outside the Ferguson Police Department on Monday night with a sign reading "Stop Killing."
Later on Tuesday, a protest is expected outside the St. Louis County prosecutor's office in Clayton, Missouri, and officials are also expected to identify the police officer involved in the shooting.
Followed by this:
Quote: Violence again erupted in the St. Louis area near the site of the police shooting death of an unarmed black teenager, according to local police, despite calls by U.S. President Barack Obama and activists for a measured response.
Early on Wednesday, a police officer shot and critically wounded a man who drew a handgun near the site of protests over the death of 18-year-old Michael Brown, a St. Louis County Police Department officer said.
Police responded about an hour after midnight to reports of four or five men with shotguns and wearing ski masks. They encountered multiple suspects running, one of whom pulled a gun on an officer, who fired at him, the county officer said. The man was taken to an area hospital.
Shortly after midnight, police fired tear gas into protesters who had confronted a line of officers after a far larger crowd dispersed, St. Louis County Police Department spokesman Brian Schellman said.
A photograph in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch showed a protester wearing a shirt with an American flag printed on it throwing a tear gas container back at the police. There were other media reports of bottles thrown at police.
The incidents followed two nights of violent protests, looting and arrests in Ferguson, the largely black St. Louis suburb where the shooting of Brown took place.
And now to bring you up to date:
Quote:
The Ferguson and St. Louis County police departments, which led the initial response to civil unrest in Ferguson, are both equipped with military equipment donated by the Defense Dept. Ferguson has received two vehicles, a trailer and a generator and St. Louis County has received nine utility trucks and two cargo trailers since 2012.
The equipment was received under the 1033 program which was enacted by Congress in 1992, and expanded in 1997. The program allows police forces to request and receive refurbished military equipment free of charge from the Pentagon. Police departments need only pay for shipping. Quote: President Barack Obama on Thursday said that police should respect protesters after four nights of racially charged demonstrations in Ferguson, Missouri, over the recent police killing of an unarmed black teenager.
"There is never an excuse for violence against police or for those who would use this tragedy as a cover for vandalism or looting," Obama said a televised remarks.
"There's also no excuse for police to use excessive force against peaceful protesters or to throw protesters in jail for lawfully exercising their first amendment rights," he said, speaking to the press from Edgartown, Massachusetts near where he is vacationing with his family.
After the shooting death of 18-year-old Michael Brown in the St. Louis suburb on Saturday, dozens of protesters have been arrested and the police have used riot gear, tear gas and rubber bullets to break up protests.
There have been peaceful vigils and demonstrations as well as episodes of looting and violence.
Governor Jay Nixon on Thursday also told community members at a church in the St. Louis area that "over the next few hours we are going to be making some shifts so that people will be ... safe." He did not specify what his steps would be made.
Don't forget this one too:
Quote: Two reporters covering the shooting of an unarmed black teen by a white police officer in a St. Louis suburb say they were arrested at a McDonald’s Wednesday evening in the commercial corridor where angry protests have occurred.
Wesley Lowery of The Washington Post and Ryan Reilly of The Huffington Post say they were working in the fast-food restaurant when SWAT officers came in to quickly clear the area. Both quickly tweeted about their arrests, detention and subsequent release without any charges.
Reilly tells KMOX News that officers were trying to clear out the restaurant.
“I was just packing up, and I evidently did not move quickly enough,” he says.
Reilly says an officer banged his head on the restaurant door and sarcastically apologized for it.
“None of them were wearing name badges, I don’t know why,” he says. “Over a dozen times I asked for an identity, I asked for a badge number, and all the officers standing around heard my request and ignored it.”
Reilly said he believes they were released so quickly because they were journalists. He realized during his interview with KMOX News that he was not read his Miranda Rights.
“I wasn’t even Mirandaized,” he says. “I did not even think about that until you just mentioned. I was never given…nothing…wow. I should really know that as a justice reporter. I sort of knew it by heart, but I was never given my rights, or anything like that was mentioned.”
Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson did not immediately return a cellphone message from The Associated Press seeking comment.
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