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Bundy Ranch, Militia OTW.
Server: Shiva
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Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-13 19:16:20
Still wondering why this guy hasn't been arrested.
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By Jetackuu 2014-04-13 19:20:46
Article I, Section 8, Clause 17 is known as the Enclave Clause. The clause gives federal control over the “Seat of Government” (Washington D.C.) and land that has been purchased by the federal government with consent of the state legislature to build military posts and other needful buildings (post offices and other structures pursuant to Article I, Section 8). Nothing more.
Being a requirement, state permission was explicitly emphasized while drafting this clause. The founders and respective states insisted (with loud cries) that the states must consent before the federal government could purchase lands from the states. Nowhere in this clause will you find the power for Congress to exercise legislative authority through regulation over 80% of Nevada, 55% of Utah, 45% of California, 70% of Alaska, etc. unless the state has given the federal government the formal authority to do so, which they have not.
who cares? It's the government's land and they can do what they want with it.
So no they can't. What's your point? They still own the land, and Bundy is trespassing, illegally, regardless of the use of the land.
also:
Quote: To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
They have authority of property they purchased, so yeah: they can do what they want with it.
Also by the power of the supremacy clause, any law they make overrides any state or county law, so you really have no leg to stand on.
By Altimaomega 2014-04-13 19:26:08
Nice copy and paste. It fully explains why the solar energy plant has not been built yet. However, it does not change any facts that pertain to Mr. Bundy. It is not his land, and he has to pay grazing fees.
With the superior educadion you claim to have, give these bolded sentences one more read.
Article I, Section 8, Clause 17 is known as the Enclave Clause. The clause gives federal control over the “Seat of Government” (Washington D.C.) and land that has been purchased by the federal government with consent of the state legislature to build military posts and other needful buildings (post offices and other structures pursuant to Article I, Section 8). Nothing more.
Being a requirement, state permission was explicitly emphasized while drafting this clause. The founders and respective states insisted (with loud cries) that the states must consent before the federal government could purchase lands from the states. Nowhere in this clause will you find the power for Congress to exercise legislative authority through regulation over 80% of Nevada, 55% of Utah, 45% of California, 70% of Alaska, etc. unless the state has given the federal government the formal authority to do so, which they have not.
Grazing fee's are regulation.
This is from Nevada's constitution about land.
"Section 1, titled “Inalienable Rights,” reads: All men are by Nature free and equal and have certain inalienable rights among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty; Acquiring, Possessing and Protecting property and pursuing and obtaining safety and happiness (Emphasis added).
In Section 22 of the Nevada Constitution, eminent domain is clarified. The state Constitution requires that the state prove public need, provide compensation and documentation before acquiring private property. In order to grant land to the federal government, the state must first control this land."
Bundy’s family has controlled the land for more than 140 years.
The Bureau of Land Management (BLM), which is an agency created by Congress, claimed that Bundy was “violating the law of the land.” Perhaps the agency has forgotten that the law of the land is the Constitution, and the only constitutional violation here is the very modern existence of the agency’s presence in Nevada.
By Altimaomega 2014-04-13 19:28:34
Still wondering why this guy hasn't been arrested.
How can they arrest him? The USA does not have a debtor prison.
By Jetackuu 2014-04-13 19:29:14
You apparently need to learn to read, and not just from your copy/paste nonsense.
The article you read does not line up with the constitution, nor has any bearing to reality.
What you're talking about is the power of adding territories to the nation and then making them states, not property owned within the state.
As to Nevada's eminent domain clause: irrelevant and has no bearing on Federal law.
By Jetackuu 2014-04-13 19:29:34
Still wondering why this guy hasn't been arrested.
How can they arrest him? The USA does not have a debtor prison. Trespassing, contempt of court.
Server: Shiva
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-13 19:31:03
I don't need to reread anything. Mr. Bundy has not controlled, or owned, anything. The Bundy family has been living on the land, never have they owned it. It's federal land. Mr. Bundy owes grazing fees. Courts have ruled on this issue, against Bundy.
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By Altimaomega 2014-04-13 19:37:20
Then why are they giving his cattle back and fleeing the area? Don't say "because people will get hurt" that has never stopped the government from carrying out the law before.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-13 19:38:20
Since you enjoy copy and pasting so much Altima, why don't you paste the results of all the court cases that have come from this case over the last 20 years, then try to dispute them.
By Altimaomega 2014-04-13 19:40:43
Since you enjoy copy and pasting so much Altima, why don't you paste the results of all the court cases that have come from this case over the last 20 years, then try to dispute them.
How bout you answer the question.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-13 19:42:17
Then why are they giving his cattle back and fleeing the area? Don't say "because people will get hurt" that has never stopped the government from carrying out the law before.
Probably because the BLM isn't used to such pathetic drama, it's not like they wanted to round up the cattle, they have openly said it was a last resort, a result of Mr. Bundy's refusal to obey the law. Like I said, just arrest him, forget about the cows, he has no case.
By Altimaomega 2014-04-13 19:45:39
Then why are they giving his cattle back and fleeing the area? Don't say "because people will get hurt" that has never stopped the government from carrying out the law before.
Probably because the BLM isn't used to such pathetic drama, it's not like they wanted to round up the cattle, they have openly said it was a last resort, a result of Mr. Bundy's refusal to obey the law. Like I said, just arrest him, forget about the cows, he has no case.
Why didn't they just arrest him? Its the Federal government right! they can do whatever they want!
edit: Do I really need to have a sarcasm tag on this ffs.
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Server: Shiva
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-13 19:46:08
Wow, what have I been saying all along?
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By Altimaomega 2014-04-13 19:49:38
Wow, what have I been saying all along?
You've been saying absolutely nothing all along actually.
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Server: Shiva
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Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-13 19:55:56
LOL, just the facts right? Anything else you want to type for us to shut down effortlessly? Or is your lesson over for the day?
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
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Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-04-13 20:03:06
He has his cattle back but he still owes the federal government a shitload of unpaid fees. The land in question was ceded by Mexico to the US government decades years before Nevada was ever a state, and nothing in the state constitution nor any legislation passed by Congress has ever granted the state control over all of this land. No court has ever ruled in favor of Bundy and none of that chain letter copypasta has anything to do with the situation at hand.
At least Saeval pulled out the almighty race card. You're going to have to step up your game.
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By Altimaomega 2014-04-13 20:07:12
LOL, just the facts right? Anything else you want to type for us to shut down effortlessly? Or is your lesson over for the day?
You have done nothing but claim the BLM have the right to take his cattle and arrest him. You have not given any facts on why they ended up NOT doing either. According to you and Jet the fed's are all powerful and can do w/e they want. (Until a few protesters show up and scare them away)
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-13 20:12:10
Lol. It's becoming comical now with you Altima. The BLM was carrying out two court orders that told them to seize the cattle. That's a fact, that's not a claim. You are the one that has provided no facts as to why Bundy doesn't have to pay grazing fees. Keep trying tho, be sure to bring up he has been living there for 100 years.
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Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-04-13 20:12:33
Quote: Bundy principally opposes the United States’ motion for summary judgment on the
ground that this court lacks jurisdiction because the United States does not own the public
lands in question. As this court previously ruled in United States v. Bundy, Case No. CV-S-
98-531-JBR (RJJ) (D. Nev. Nov. 4, 1998), “the public lands in Nevada are the property of the
United States because the United States has held title to those public lands since 1848, when
Mexico ceded the land to the United States.” CV-S-98-531 at 8 (citing United States v. Gardner,
107 F.3d 1314, 1318 (9th Cir. 1997)). Moreover, Bundy is incorrect in claiming that the
Disclaimer Clause of the Nevada Constitution carries no legal force, see Gardner, 107 F.3d at
1320; that the Property Clause of the United States Constitution applies only to federal lands
outside the borders of states, see id. at 1320; that the United States‘ exercise of ownership
over federal lands violates the Equal Footing Doctrine, see id. at 1319; that the United States
is basing its authority to sanction Bundy for his unauthorized use of federal lands on the
Endangered Species Act as opposed to trespass, see Compl. at ¶¶ 1,3, 26-39; and that
Nevada’s “Open Range” statute excuses Bundy’s trespass. See e.g., Gardner, 107 F.3d at 1320
(under Supremacy Clause state statute in conflict with federal law requiring permit to graze
would be trumped). http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/species/reptiles/desert_tortoise/pdfs/Order_US_v__Bundy_7_9_13.pdf
By Jetackuu 2014-04-13 20:16:29
LOL, just the facts right? Anything else you want to type for us to shut down effortlessly? Or is your lesson over for the day?
You have done nothing but claim the BLM have the right to take his cattle and arrest him. You have not given any facts on why they ended up NOT doing either. According to you and Jet the fed's are all powerful and can do w/e they want. (Until a few protesters show up and scare them away) Now you're being blatantly ignorant and putting words in people's mouths.
The Federal government can do what they want as long as they pass the laws and they are upheld in court.
By Jetackuu 2014-04-13 20:17:29
Pleebs remember now: "lolfederalcourts"
Server: Valefor
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-04-13 20:17:35
o yea im sure the federal government is totally scared of a few moderately armed ranchers who were smart enough to stand in the middle of an interstate highway. i know i would be. thats the only solution, can't think of any other reason other than they're scaaared ooooooooo *wiggly arms*
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Server: Shiva
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Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-13 20:21:22
Quote: Bundy principally opposes the United States’ motion for summary judgment on the
ground that this court lacks jurisdiction because the United States does not own the public
lands in question. As this court previously ruled in United States v. Bundy, Case No. CV-S-
98-531-JBR (RJJ) (D. Nev. Nov. 4, 1998), “the public lands in Nevada are the property of the
United States because the United States has held title to those public lands since 1848, when
Mexico ceded the land to the United States.” CV-S-98-531 at 8 (citing United States v. Gardner,
107 F.3d 1314, 1318 (9th Cir. 1997)). Moreover, Bundy is incorrect in claiming that the
Disclaimer Clause of the Nevada Constitution carries no legal force, see Gardner, 107 F.3d at
1320; that the Property Clause of the United States Constitution applies only to federal lands
outside the borders of states, see id. at 1320; that the United States‘ exercise of ownership
over federal lands violates the Equal Footing Doctrine, see id. at 1319; that the United States
is basing its authority to sanction Bundy for his unauthorized use of federal lands on the
Endangered Species Act as opposed to trespass, see Compl. at ¶¶ 1,3, 26-39; and that
Nevada’s “Open Range” statute excuses Bundy’s trespass. See e.g., Gardner, 107 F.3d at 1320
(under Supremacy Clause state statute in conflict with federal law requiring permit to graze
would be trumped). http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/species/reptiles/desert_tortoise/pdfs/Order_US_v__Bundy_7_9_13.pdf
Im on an iPad so can't copy pasta, but kindly paste page 4, line 5-7 for Altima.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-04-13 20:21:43
Valefor.Prothescar said: »o yea im sure the federal government is totally scared of a few moderately armed ranchers who were smart enough to stand in the middle of an interstate highway. i know i would be. thats the only solution, can't think of any other reason other than they're scaaared ooooooooo *wiggly arms*
By Jetackuu 2014-04-13 20:23:01
Quote: Bundy principally opposes the United States’ motion for summary judgment on the
ground that this court lacks jurisdiction because the United States does not own the public
lands in question. As this court previously ruled in United States v. Bundy, Case No. CV-S-
98-531-JBR (RJJ) (D. Nev. Nov. 4, 1998), “the public lands in Nevada are the property of the
United States because the United States has held title to those public lands since 1848, when
Mexico ceded the land to the United States.” CV-S-98-531 at 8 (citing United States v. Gardner,
107 F.3d 1314, 1318 (9th Cir. 1997)). Moreover, Bundy is incorrect in claiming that the
Disclaimer Clause of the Nevada Constitution carries no legal force, see Gardner, 107 F.3d at
1320; that the Property Clause of the United States Constitution applies only to federal lands
outside the borders of states, see id. at 1320; that the United States‘ exercise of ownership
over federal lands violates the Equal Footing Doctrine, see id. at 1319; that the United States
is basing its authority to sanction Bundy for his unauthorized use of federal lands on the
Endangered Species Act as opposed to trespass, see Compl. at ¶¶ 1,3, 26-39; and that
Nevada’s “Open Range” statute excuses Bundy’s trespass. See e.g., Gardner, 107 F.3d at 1320
(under Supremacy Clause state statute in conflict with federal law requiring permit to graze
would be trumped). http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/species/reptiles/desert_tortoise/pdfs/Order_US_v__Bundy_7_9_13.pdf
Im on an iPad so can't copy pasta, but kindly paste page 4, line 5-7 for Altima.
pasting
Quote: Bundy has produced no valid law or specific facts raising a genuine issue of fact regarding federal ownership or management of public lands in Nevada, or that his cattle have not trespassed on the New Trespass Lands.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
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Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-04-13 20:24:44
Im on an iPad so can't copy pasta, but kindly paste page 4, line 5-7 for Altima. Quote: In sum, in this most recent effort to oppose the United States’ legal
process, Bundy has produced no valid law or specific facts raising a genuine issue of fact
regarding federal ownership or management of public lands in Nevada, or that his cattle
have not trespassed on the New Trespass Lands. BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE
Edit: NVM I'M LATE
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By Jetackuu 2014-04-13 20:25:51
You're slow Pleebs
By Altimaomega 2014-04-13 20:27:43
LOL, just the facts right? Anything else you want to type for us to shut down effortlessly? Or is your lesson over for the day?
You have done nothing but claim the BLM have the right to take his cattle and arrest him. You have not given any facts on why they ended up NOT doing either. According to you and Jet the fed's are all powerful and can do w/e they want. (Until a few protesters show up and scare them away) Now you're being blatantly ignorant and putting words in people's mouths.
The Federal government can do what they want as long as they pass the laws and they are upheld in court.
roflmao YOUR accusing me of putting words in peoples mouth. (priceless)
By Jetackuu 2014-04-13 20:28:30
LOL, just the facts right? Anything else you want to type for us to shut down effortlessly? Or is your lesson over for the day?
You have done nothing but claim the BLM have the right to take his cattle and arrest him. You have not given any facts on why they ended up NOT doing either. According to you and Jet the fed's are all powerful and can do w/e they want. (Until a few protesters show up and scare them away) Now you're being blatantly ignorant and putting words in people's mouths.
The Federal government can do what they want as long as they pass the laws and they are upheld in court.
roflmao YOUR accusing me of putting words in peoples mouth. (priceless) I'm not accusing, I'm stating fact.
also, it's "you're" if you're attempting the conjunction of "you" and "are."
Server: Phoenix
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Posts: 3686
By Phoenix.Amandarius 2014-04-13 20:34:37
ewwwww, pointing out typo's? that's when the argument on the internet gets desperate. Don't do it, brah.
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I'm not posting a link to a certain story or website because every single one is different. It's pretty crazy that militia are actually gathering from 5-6, perhaps more states and the mainstream news sites are barely even covering it. I do not have cable or any kind of "TV" but from what I can gather, it is not being reported.
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