Bundy Ranch, Militia OTW.

No topic shall ever be dead until it's been beaten to death, and then beaten some more!

I think a daily update is enough for this topic.

probably more than enough...

Hour 1258, Bundy has finished his side of coleslaw and appears to be aiming for the biscuit... more on this developing story every hour, on the hour.

Breaking news, he's sitting in his rocking chair!

This is from someone who understands the situation more than I do. IF you people even care about the government regulating everyone out of business, give it a read.

There have been a lot of people criticizing Clive Bundy because he did not pay his grazing fees for 20 years. The public is also probably wondering why so many other cowboys are supporting Mr. Bundy even though they paid their fees and Clive did not. What you people probably do not realize is that on every rancher's grazing permit it says the following: "You are authorized to make grazing use of the lands, under the jurisdiction of the Bureau of Land Management and covered by this grazing permit. Upon your acceptance of the terms and conditions of this grazing permit and payment of grazing fees when due." The "mandatory" terms and conditions go on to list the allotment, the number and kind of livestock to be grazed, when the permit begins and ends, the number of active or suspended AUMs (animal units per month), etc. The terms and conditions also list specific requirements such as where salt or mineral supplements can be located, maximum allowable use of forage levels (40% of annual growth), etc., and include a lot more stringent policies that must be adhered to. Every rancher must sign this "contract" agreeing to abide by the TERMS AND CONDITIONS before he or she can make payment. In the early 90s, the BLM went on a frenzy and drastically cut almost every rancher's permit because of this desert tortoise issue, even though all of us ranchers knew that cow and desert tortoise had co-existed for a hundred+ years. As an example, a family friend had his permit cut by 90%. For those of you who are non ranchers, that would be equated to getting your paycheck cut 90%. In 1976 there were approximately 52 ranching permittees in this area of Nevada. Presently, there are 3. Most of these people lost their livelihoods because of the actions of the BLM. Clive Bundy was one of these people who received extremely unfair and unreasonable TERMS AND CONDITIONS. Keep in mind that Mr. Bundy was required to sign this contract before he was allowed to pay. Had Clive signed on the dotted line, he would have, in essence, signed his very livelihood away. And so Mr. Bundy took a stand, not only for himself, but for all of us. He refused to be destroyed by a tyrannical federal entity and to have his American liberties and freedoms taken away. Also keep in mind that all ranchers financially paid dearly for the forage rights those permits allow - - not rights to the land, but rights to use the forage that grows on that land. Many of these AUMS are water based, meaning that the rancher also has a vested right (state owned, not federal) to the waters that adjoin the lands and allow the livestock to drink. These water rights were also purchased at a great price. If a rancher cannot show beneficial use of the water (he must have the appropriate number of livestock that drinks and uses that water), then he loses that water right. Usually water rights and forage rights go hand in hand. Contrary to what the BLM is telling you, they NEVER compensate a rancher for the AUMs they take away. Most times, they tell ranchers that their AUMS are "suspended," but not removed. Unfortunately, my family has thousands of "suspended" AUMs that will probably never be returned. And so, even though these ranchers throughout the course of a hundred years invested thousands(and perhaps millions) of dollars and sacrificed along the way to obtain these rights through purchase from others, at a whim the government can take everything away with the stroke of a pen. This is the very thing that Clive Bundy single-handedly took a stand against. Thank you, Clive, from a rancher who considers you a hero.
-Kena Lytle Gloeckner

He lives in a rural area, does labor intensive work, is white, male and a Republican, that makes him a non-person to the liberals that post here.

Now if he was a black or latino inner city worker, or just female, then they would actually care about his situation and demand the government fix it's "racist/sexist/something~ism" laws.

1/10

i am severely disappointed by this thread title

Sooooooo....

this person acknowledges that the land falls under the jurisdiction of the BLM, that is, it is not, nor ever was, Bundy's property. They also acknowledge that the federal government, as rightful owners of the land on which the cattle graze, essentially do not want cattle there anymore. They then seem to argue that they should somehow be able to dictate the appropriate usage of land that neither they nor Bundy have legitimate claim to.

It's not like I lack any empathy towards these ranchers at all, but they've been allowed to use this land for generations with the consent of the government. Public land doesn't mean free reign on property and resources. No amount of emotional appeals or hyperbolic speech can change that.

No mention yet of Harry Reid's connection to a multibillion dollar deal with a Chinese green energy giant to turn this land into a solar wind farm and solar manufacturing plant?

Yeah this is over a million dollars.

I thought this was about Al Bundy and farming. My bad.

who cares? It's the government's land and they can do what they want with it.

Well, they technically should be responsible to either have those decisions made by ELECTED officials or submit it as a referendum to a popular vote. The government shouldn't be able to manage lands in that manner without public oversight. However, whether they SHOULD be able to or not, they ARE able to.

who cares about graft?

does he own stake in said company, or are they paying him?

I mean if you want to talk about corrupt politicians we could be here awhile, isn't that part of the definition of politician?

If there is some evidence of corruption, I'd care, but that still doesn't change the nature of Bundy's dispute.

He does not own stake in it per se, but his son Rory is the Chinese energy company's (ENN) chief representative, and Harry Reid has been heavily involved in pushing this multibillion dollar deal through. His son stands to profit immensely from this which stands to reason that Harry Reid does. You have father and son brokering both sides of this multibillion dollar land deal. It stinks.

The feds backed down mere moments after this story broke. Where there is smoke there is fire. Do you really thing BLM is going to send in heavily armed forces over back taxes?

No, they'll just arrest him when the opportunity arises and liquidate his assets.

Energy is what runs this world, go figure.

Why look at the facts when you can do emotion and conjecture?

Seriously, present some actual evidence.

There are no facts regarding that rumor. The proposed site of the energy farm, where they will be harvesting all that solar wind (lol), is no where close to the Bundy ranch. Bundy supporters are just throwing whatever ***at the wall they can hoping it will stick since they have no legal leg to stand on and they know any mention of the Reids gets all of rural Nevada super frothy.

If you are really curious then it is a good thing you are on the internet and you can search for any facts your heart desires. Or is this the part where we pretend we are curious but FFXI forum is our only source? I haven't seen one documented fact presented in this thread now all of a sudden you want me doing your homework to satisfy your pretend curiosity.

Crazy all of a sudden liberals are totally cool with sending heavily armed forces in to essentially collect taxes? And totally uncurious about large scale political corruption? What happened to you guys?

I did do some research, it's just a lot of tinfoil and conjecture as usual.

I'm feeling generous today so...

Here be a map of Clark County:

Bundy's ranch is located in Bunkerville (NE corner) while the proposed solar plant area is near Laughlin (southernmost tip) just NE of Vegas according to this map.

And they weren't sending people in to collect taxes. The BLM was capturing cattle that have been illegally trespassing on public lands for the past 20 years and nothing more. Law enforcement were brought in due to the protesters and dipshit militias who were holding up traffic and threatening federal employees. They had nothing to do with the cattle round up.

ITT, people who decry mooching off the government support a man who is blatantly mooching off the government.

I really want to figure out why issues died in favor of partisanship. I suspect the 24-hour news cycle is at the heart of it.

where's the "here there be monsters" mark?

If I marked them, then the monsters wouldn't be a surprise.

Article I, Section 8, Clause 17 is known as the Enclave Clause. The clause gives federal control over the “Seat of Government” (Washington D.C.) and land that has been purchased by the federal government with consent of the state legislature to build military posts and other needful buildings (post offices and other structures pursuant to Article I, Section 8). Nothing more.

Being a requirement, state permission was explicitly emphasized while drafting this clause. The founders and respective states insisted (with loud cries) that the states must consent before the federal government could purchase lands from the states. Nowhere in this clause will you find the power for Congress to exercise legislative authority through regulation over 80% of Nevada, 55% of Utah, 45% of California, 70% of Alaska, etc. unless the state has given the federal government the formal authority to do so, which they have not.




So no they can't.

Nice copy and paste. It fully explains why the solar energy plant has not been built yet. However, it does not change any facts that pertain to Mr. Bundy. It is not his land, and he has to pay grazing fees.

I use the electricity my body produces to power things.