Vere Vs Spharai

Where do glanzfausts figure into the equation?

sorry to slightly derail this discussion but is there a difference in the proc rate of ODD from 85-95? im fairly close to getting some verths and would like to know about this.

Would be a lot of math but I can bluntly guess that:
1. At VW it will easily beat Spharai but probably not Veret
2. It will beat everything for pure zerg situation when you can prepare 300TP (outside of VW)
3. Will lose with probably both Spharai and Veret for events like Nyzul, Dynamis and similar.

No, it sux equally for 85-95.

When for example Ukonvasara ODD is 30% and it actually doubles damage for 30% of you melee hits, its completely nerfed for h2h.

Assuming standard set for MNK with 3% TA and 21%DA you are looking at 2.53 hits per attack round and ODD will only work for 1.0 of them which is barely a 30% of 40% melee dmg from fists. Now assuming fists damage is around 85-90% of total melee damage (the rest is kick attacks). 30% ODD end up actually doubling 10-11% of your total melee damage... yeah that sux big time.

More or less the same as any of the DW jobs really, which is what I feel they were aiming for.

Ymm no?

Every DW job can ODD on multiattacks with main hand and have no kicks as a part of their melee damage.

This doesn't sound so bad to me lol. Thanks for the info.

I'd have to dig, but I think the consensus on BG now is that ODD can only go off once per attack round. I know the spreadsheets are set up to calculate it like that. I'll ask Night later tonight when he's around, though.

Im 100% sure that ODD can proc on doube/triple/quadruple attacks with all empyrean melee weapons beside h2h.

Well, I'm sure they'd love free extra attacks, regardless if their odd could proc on it or not.

Also, main hand vs offhand makes no diff. It still will only proc for one of them, not the other.

And since making another emp isn't even an option, it'd be impossible to get procs on main and offhand, which is why I think h2h is limited to only one as well (since there are obviously two weapons there, lol)

I'll take your word (and someone else word) on it. The last that I heard was what I said, yet I can't verify anything myself seeing how I'm deactivated and only have Vereth.

I think you dont understand.
Veretragna is not only limited to proc with one hand but also only once per round. All other empyrean can proc multiply times in one round if you happen to double/triple/quadruple attack with them.

So instead of ODD for 50% of your attacks like with Dual wield (unless ofc you have some Occasionally attack x hits weapon in your sub hand) you have ODD only for 39% of your fists attacks and ~35% of your total melee attacks.

This disadvantage will raise even further if you gear your MNK optimally for Impetus down time. Because Toci's Harness and Denali body in the future add even more multiattacks.

Im sure ODD can proc more than once with the right fist in one attack round on a double/triple attack, really isnt hard for someone to test im a bit busy atm. Apoc atma and level 3 aftermath you should see 2 ODD punches pretty quickly within one attack round, or im totally losing it but Im sure you can. This isnt to say ive taken a side on the whole vere vs spharai debate I could couldn't care less.

So what your saying is vere is the only empy that processes on one of the atk of the atk rounds. I have triple atked with my almace and had 2/3 hits odd so I know it can odd on da/ta/qa. Also duel wielding does hurt your chance of odd vs a 2 handed empy like ukkon or redemption which all it's atks can odd. only your main hand can odd and I have bad luck or it's weighted this way but, the last few times I kept track(500 swings give or take) I came out a 68% average of only multi atking on my off hand and not on mainhand, which I found very interesting because then my off hand sword is greatly lowering my dd if I where just 1 handing.

Actually for a long time I was assuming Veret works like all Empyrean weapons till I was corrected by Tigerwoods (I think) and did a test myself. In a 30 min with Apoc/Lion/Alpha (total 33%TA with Epona?) I havent seen even one ODD on multiattacks and I was always saving TP to 300 to get AM3 (50%ODD) and hit till it wore off then WS again and repeat.

I don't have any other emps, so if they can proc on multi attacks, then yea you have a point. That should be adjusted (for Vereth, not in the form of other emp nerf like people were crying for war nerfs)

and yes, you're correct about Vereth multi attack ODD. I did the initial testing on that ages ago.

I still love Verethragna, even with it's shortcomings =O

I do not have experience with any relic or empyrean yet; can the hidden 3x damage effect on Spharai proc on a WS? What about the ODD on Verethragna?

I'm sure this question has been answered, but I can't figure out where.

Neither can.

The real question is, does spharai aftermath proc on weapon skills that would make it pull ahead by tons!!!!!

Relic Aftermath does apply to ws's, although why you think 10 Subtle Blow on a ws is amazing is beyond me.

Has to have meant Verethragna... right?

My real question is, why would someone look for answers in something so disorganized as a forum before looking somewhere so user friendly as a wiki article?

edit: still not working... *** it