Vere Vs Spharai

Also, it doesn't matter what knuckles a MNK has. Even a full pink MNK rocking a White Belt teamed up with anything with Cure 3 or higher can duo the universe.

/Abyssea

I don't know, but it's a damn good time to figure everything out then, right? Wish I was activated atm.

:(

Differences in model quality, same as I was referring to before. Give it a rest.

Hmm. I've seen other posts that indicated it could, but I'll go with once/round for now. At any rate, the spreadsheet I'm using is apparently set up so ODD/OTD can only proc once per round so I'm going to remove my penalty, recheck all my data, and edit my earlier post. It'll represent Spharai more accurately and at worst will slightly underrate Verethragna.

Let me see if i can find a screenshot showing it can proc on more than one hit if the second fist DA/TA's... cus i'm sure i've seen it happen before.

You're right. I thought it was TPPerRound/2 instead of DelayPerRound/2 for H2H.

In that case, Verethragna does get a decent amount of TP advantage (6 TP per minute), since it goes under the 180 threshold for significant increase. Haste effects will increase this, but we still have to consider wasted TP per WS, in practice. The slight increases for the range over 180 delay aren't really significant enough to overcome waste (at least for 35 delay difference).

I'm not sure I follow, are you trying to argue that Vere will have significantly more "waste" TP than Spharai?

Edits complete, brings the two weapons (95 Spharai 90 Vere) basically even in the conditions used. Obviously subject to variation depending on conditions.

Was using the wrong formula in the previous page.

When I get back I need to formally test the ODD on offhand hits/multiple times per attack round.

No. By wasted TP I mean the average TP that people WS at over 100%. For myself, I've usually noticed on average 105% TP when WS-ing, that is 5% wasted (you can argue that it makes the WS better through fTP, but this is really insignificant). This is considering you WS right after the round that gets over 100% TP. I'm not discounting Verethragna's TP advantage, but it is not as big as it seems on paper due to this wasted effect.

If no, then it's irrelevant because both will have waste TP. Vere will have 6% more waste in theory, but 1) it will still have 6% more non-waste TP and 2) waste TP on Vere at least does something useful in that it's 1% critrate per 10 TP.

If you're talking about simple overflow TP as a product of tp/hit not being evenly divisible by your remaining TP to WS post-weaponskill and multiattacking, that's a slightly more complicated matter that I don't want to write out the math for given the number of cases involved but I assure you it still holds true. There's some mild variation due to TP/hit truncation and small potential differences in average hits/ws (Shijin makes great use of Toci's and Ocelomeh +1, add some DA and TA), but it's still roughly 6%.

1% crit rate at the moment, or after the nerf?

only found one screenshot that looks like it may have ODD'd twice on a triple attack, but there's no timestamp so there's not really any proof in it :3

post-nerf

I cannot vouch for the multiple hits proc.
But per round I only had 1 ODD on mnk, primarily being on the offhand swing.
A few high criticals on the primary hand swing potentially being ODD.
None the less, only 1 ODD per 2 rounds.

ehh, nerf won't be *that* bad then.

In hindsight, you're right. TP waste doesn't really matter for either weapon, since it affects Spharai too.

According to my testing, not BG's, so it should read "according to the off forums".

For vere vs spharai, spharai wins, but not by much and only if you have good shinjin gear (mix of dex and attack). You can use Motenten's spreadsheet if you want but don't forget to use realistic shijin gear because otherwise if you ws in you full AF3+2 it's going to suck slightly. Using my personnal tools which simulated everything I have spharai a few % better than vere, and there is no big difference depending on defense or level difference.

Spharai favours full usukane.

with 99 Spharai getting 40% boost to FH, is FH a viable WS, possibly passing all other H2H?

0*1.4=0

Not even close. Spharai will still be using Shijin Spiral.

What does this even mean? Mathematics doesn't produce the type of opinion you're referring to, it provides a stepping stone to a definitive. Discrepancy occurs in mathematics when one is either working off a faulty premise, or when one has yet to identify and/or account for all variables.

Furthermore, "opinions" are nothing more than watered down assertions that, very much the same as everything else ever put forth, are based on reasonable certitude, reasonable assumptions based on limited or only partially relevant certitude, or a misapprehension. Like now, for instance: it's your opinion that all opinions are correct by virtue of being opinions. Based on the actual definition of an opinion, I'm able to tell you that your opinion is definitively incorrect.

Did you post it on BG? Then Serj got it from BG. You act like you discovered the cure for cancer and Phizer came to steal it from you. Speaking of cancer, I thought you were banned long time ago... aaaannnnd, blocked. No worries.

Actually, no. See, what you need to do is read the thread and use your context clues to see people were posting tings as fact and everyone arguing about who's facts are actually facts. At the same time, people were saying that there were no opinions posted. Except there are a lot of opinions being posted... weird.

Little more common sense, a little less thesaurus.com.

Pchan is still mad he got temp banned from BG. It'll be up soon though!

Did all that, and agree that a lot of fact fabrication was going on. That doesn't change how blatantly incorrect his statement was.

And if anything I typed in those two paragraphs requires a thesaurus, god help us.

Pchan is going to be allowed back, and I'm not. That's still painful, if only because it hurts my brain to comprehend it.

Pchan makes a good punching bag, you not so much.

I'm still convinced it had everything to do with my asking Isladar if she fancied vagina.

Tanaka-san thinks Spherai is R.A.D

Since im lazy i will just repost from other thread:

First of all you need to make those calculations again for nerfed Vsmite and for top equip for both WS. SS(with Spharai99) is not inferior to Vsmite at 100TP without temps like chempion drink or buffs like blood rage or idk Ramuh favor. Its slightly better with Impetus but im not sure of that either.

Because of how gimped is ODD for h2h (Only works ONCE per attack round) it has very small impact to overall damage. 11-12% for triple damage is also very close to 30%ODD anyway especially considering that because of fists:kick ratio hidden damage on relic will multiply more % of total damage than ODD from Empyrean.

Math start:
TP fSTR I will assume 13 for Veret and 8 for Spharai
cratio I will assume 1.5 for Veret and 1.55 for Spharai
DPS:


Veret
fist: (42+13+52)=107
kick: (52+8+45)= 105
DA:21%
TA:3%
hit (fist) per rounds: ~2.53
kick dmg per round: 105*0.27=~28
Damage per round - (107*1.3+107+107*0.53+28)= ~331
Delay (2x march 25%, haste spell 15%, 25% haste in equip)
(275+51)*0.35=114.1
DPS: 331*1.5*60/114.1=261

Spharai
fist: (52+8+52)=112
kick: (52+8+45)= 105
DA:21%
TA:3%
hit (fist) per rounds: ~2.53
kick dmg per round: 105*0.27=~28
Damage per round - (112*1.24+112+112*0.53+28)= ~338
Delay (2x march 25%, haste spell 15%, 25% haste in equip)
(275+86)*0.35=126.35
DPS: 338*1.55*60/126.35=~249

So 5% advantage for Veret but only if you can maintain ODD and its for hidden effect rate with relic 95. Even slight boost to hidden will put Spharai equal or ahead. Obviosuly at VW you can usually maintain aftermath lv3 thats why I wrote that Veret pulls ahead only with temps (wing) but will be far behind when you have breaks between fights (nyzul, dynamis). its also dps w/o counter damage and obviosuly that will again pulls Spharai a little higher.

Now WS:
Its much more complicated because there is many sets for Smite that are considered top. Someone please post best Vsmite gear so I can math it.

I would assume:
Veret/_/_/Thew
Dhead+1/3%critneck/vulcan/brutal
af3+2/nomkahpa?/pyro/pyro
rancor/windbuffet/dlegs+1/af3+2

Dhead+1 with 3%WSC,6att
Dlegs+1 with 11STR total

Well I found improvement myself. Moonshade earring and Epona (obviously)

WS:

Vsmite

STR:
Base 107
Food 7
Boost-STR 24
Equip 71
total: 209
WSC: 106

Attack: Almost identical to tp set so ...
cRatio: 1.5

Crit:
Base with earring: 13%
neck: 3%
back: 5%
dDEX: 5%
Merit: 5%
Impetus: 20% (avg with capped accuracy, might be less in reality)
Total: 51%

TA: 3%
DA: 21%
avg fTP: 5.78

(106+42+51+13)*5.78=1225

(1225*2.5*1.2*0.51+1225*1.5*0.49)= 2774 with Impetus
(1225*2.5*0.31+1225*1.5*0.69)= 2217 without Impetus

Shijin Spiral:

Set:



DEX:
base: 91
equip: 84
total: 175
WSC: 148

Attack: slightly less than Vsmite but 5% bonus pulls it back to 1.55 cRatio
fSTR: lets say 0
avg fTP: 5.73

(52+51+148)*5.73*1.55=2229

So yeah avg Vsmite will pull ahead and Veret will also pull ahead by a little but:
1. If you are close to fstr cap during TP with Spharai than not only melee dmg of spharai will win but also boost-dex would set avg SS at 2406
2. If you tanking something that you can counter then Spharai dps will also get a significant boost
3. If you do any event that wont let you keep aftermath with Veret then Spharai will win

Overall Veret should win in Voidwatch and vs very strong mobs especially with Impetus up.

Spharai will easily win in Nyzul, Dynamis. Probably also even in other events when Impetus is down.