Which JSE +2 Necks Are Worth It?

I was not being sarcastic, just genuinely confused.

You farmed one bazaar full of every sellable in one month's ambu.. without doing ambu?

How are you farming ambu without spending time farming ambu is the question.

Spend time -> make gil.

Spend time -> farm something.

Spend time -> farm gil to buy something.

What is the difference.

Opportunity Cost


Just saw Dodik immediately replied to you explaining what Opportunity Cost is.

Also how the *** is Abju-1 equipment free? You mean I didnt have to server hop to Asura to buy some Jinxed and Voodoo pieces when I needed them, I could have just farmed them for free?

If its worth buying the +1 and spending time/money augmenting it, why the *** is the +2 not worth it??? What kind of dumb logic is this. Should I stop RPing after a certain amount because the ROI drops down?
For ~2200 RP, I can get all the way to R10, and get a bunch of stats! But that same ~2200 will only get me to R13, its not worth it.

RDM. Enfeebling effect +3 and duration +5% are really good stats, which maximize strong enfeebling effect casted with Saboteur to last as long as possible. Enhancing duration is nice QoL and MND, int and macc are nice bonuses.

MNK. Kick attack rate +5% and kick damage +5 are very good for TP, especially with 2% more pdl. Kick damage and 2% more pdl are great for Tornado and Dragon kick, which are bread and butter for most fights with Godhands and Footwork up.

DRG. -5% DT for the wyvern is really nice, then additional attack, pdl and STR are grest for WSs. But if you don't play DRG in tougher content, then it might not be that important.

BRD. 1%QA and 1stp might look small, but it's quite a lot. Additional pdl on already best dagger WS neck is more important than for some other jobs having access to much more pdl options.

NIN. 5 daken, 2 stp is really good for tp and if you have prime katana its a must have, because of how perfect it is for Zesho Meppo. If you don't I would still +2 it.

Wait, is a tiered list too much for you to process? Everything must be sorted into exactly two buckets and nuance isn't allowed?

I think the issue with using time:gil:item(value) comparison based on other people's opinions, in order to make a determination on whether something is "worth it", is too broad, and it just depends on your personal view. Some people disagree with buying a +1 neck and then upgrading to +2 because they see that as a "waste" after you no longer have a use for the +1, but I see it differently.

If you use a +1 neck or su4 for 6 months and it improves your character during that time, and then when there are no other improvements to make, you upgrade to a +2 or su5, I don't see the +1 as a "waste" because of not being able to resell it. I got 6 months of use out of it (time), and it improved my gameplay (value) at a reduced cost (gil) and I was able to use the remainder of my gil on more important things at the time, so the price I paid for it was "worth it" at the time. Just because I upgraded to a higher quality version does not negate the improvement I got for the 6 months prior, and whether or not I can "get back" my original investment is irrelevant, because I got value for the item at the time I needed it, then replaced it when I no longer did. People do this all the time with lots of consumable goods, so this is not just my own unique perspective.

It's similar to renting a home vs buying a home. If you rent for 2 years, you can never get that money back, so many people view rent as a "Waste". However, it can save you money and time to do other things, because owning a home is a massive investment. If/when a person decides to stop renting and purchase a home, the time he spent renting can be viewed as a "Waste" or "worth it", depending on your world view. Neither is correct or incorrect, just your own choice imo.

I don't see purchasing an HQ1 and then upgrading to an HQ2 (or not) later on down the road as much of an issue personally, so long as it provides value and improvement at the time you need it.

This is very true, and Foxfire summed it up in the 5th post of this thread


Every incremental improvement is a larger improvement overall when combined together. Trying to determine if a piece of gear is "worth it" depends largely on the rest of your gearing choices, but there is no arguing that better is better.

No, he’s the one being pedantic about being on/off topic when he’s just as off topic as anyone else in this dumbass thread.


Real answer: if you play the job enough the +2 is probably worth it. If you don’t, probably not

I wasn't off topic. I haven't tiered necks, I tiered changes on necks from +1 to +2, which I explained in another post to make it clear and that was exactly what OP was asking. I just haven't give my reasons, so I included them in my last post for my top 5.

The neck system has always been really stupid. You really should be able to trade an R15 NQ neck or R20 HQ1 neck along with a HQ2 neck and get it back as R15/25 or R20/25 respectively.

It should be possible to turn a nq into +1 into a +2, via (some) method

But the crafters would be screwed. So.

Considering what little crafters still have to make compared to earlier times, some of which are locked behind a huge money pit. Understandable

I think this is the important idea to take-away from this thread. A few "unnecessary" HQ pieces can free up an otherwise occupied armor slot.


I wish SE would stop jerking us around and make +2 necks augmentable to R30 already. Add a 4th augment like they did with Odyssey. But they would have to add +5 levels to the NQ/+1 necks as well. I think this is perfectly fine and that SE should go this route. (i.e. it doesn't affect crafters and players would still get more replay value).

*** your math did many very random

Respectfully disagree. Blanket statement ignores all the nuance of gearing.

As a career geo, by playing it enough the +2 neck is probably worth the price? On my server geo +2 is 50mil, +1 is 4mil, NQ is 100k.

Geo +2 Stats:
Macc +30
Geomancy +7

Augments:
MP+50
Luopon Duration +25%
Luopon absorb +10%

Geo +1 Stats:
Macc +25
Geomancy +6

Augments:
MP+40
Luopon Duration +20%
Luopon absorb +8%

If you play geo enough, safe to assume you either have or working towards Idris. Meaning that Geomancy+ becomes a useless stat. MP is also fairly meaningless. As well you probably also have your pet: regen set pretty solid and that Luopon duration doesn't break the 10min hardcap of when luopons disappear, so another mostly useless stat unless you're dropping regen slots for something else.

So we are left with Macc and luopon absorb. +5 macc for the +2 over the +1 and +2% absorb rate. Is +5macc and +2% absorb better than the +1? Obviously, but is it worth 46mil over taking a +1 that will give you 80% effectiveness? Absolutely not imo. Doesn't matter how career geo you are.

Now, if you never plan to get Idris, then the +2 is the second highest Geomancy+ available, but at the cost of 50mil. I would argue to spend that 46mil towards an Idris and settle with a 4mil Geomany+6 until your coalitions are done.

Simon has the right of it, some are going to be more worth than others based on job specific factors, not a black and white worth or not worth and I'm sure you could make similar arguments for at least whm, pld, run.

I also don't factor in the heroisms cost, go do Dyna you lazies!

>>MFW I see a geo with Idris and Bagua Charm +1

37 mil for idris in bayld, cost of stones will vary depending on source (event, ah, vouchers)

~50 mil in beits to 119 III it ( extra dmg, macc+15, mab+15, mdmg+62, lolclubandparry, maccskill+27, afterglow)

48 mil in swarts to R15 it (extra dmg, exudation+15%, acc/macc+30)

Vs

50 mil for Charm+2, RP cost is not included here because there is absolutely no dyna group thats gonna say “no dont come geo” (Magic Accuracy+30 Geomancy +7 MP +50, Luopan Duration +25%, Luopan: Absorbs DT +10%)

The geomancy is irrelevant due to Idris, the MP is irrelevant because swapping gear around will bounce it, but the other 3 stats are excellent and more important to the geos primary role.

Probably disingenuous to compare a fully maxed out Idris' cost and counting additional stats that are out of the scope of the comparison (base damage, exudation?), to a +2 neck. I put beits into my Idris but never finished Swarts (because it's kinda costly merely for completions sake) and I've never needed to melee in Idris for anything. Literally use it to cast geomancy and maybe some enfeebles, that's it. Even a maxed out hq1 neck and base Idris combo is cheaper than the base price of hq2 neck. A minimalist geo looking to get the most out of their money would settle for that, and there would be nothing wrong with it.

Can distill it further since null neck basically replaces the macc aspect of it, so it really is down to the lupon augments which are fairly minor from +1 > +2. -1/tic on lupon and +2% absorb chance

Idris GEO #784793827654 chiming in here. I have the +2 neck capped and love watching my bubbles heal themselves to full occasionally. The neck is a good investment if you plan on actually playing GEO. If you have Idris and are slumming it in a +1 neck and aren't a blatant mule prepare to be judged.

Only considering the increase from +1 to +2:

WAR: Very good; increases damage stats on a piece you're using for damage, which is your job.
MNK: Incredibly good; excellent for TP and WS phase, already BiS a lot of the time
WHM: Bit niche; I use the +2 neck in my midcasts for cures to help with enmity, but these days TBH pulling hate is not that common/costly. FC is extremely trivial to cap
BLM: Incredibly good; It's the best neck for the thing your job does. Get it.
RDM: Insanely good; It's the best neck for everything you do and has unique and irreplaceable stats. Get it.
THF: Incredibly good; It's an excellent TP piece, evasion piece, and WS piece. All those stats are enhanced by +2
PLD: Quite niche; I use this for Cure SIRD set and it helps to cap out DT while also having enmity. Beyond that I don't think it's in any set for me, personally.
DRK: Incredibly good; Offers some strong improvements over the +1 for TP/WS sets which are your bread and butter. Get this.
BST: I don't play this ***. IDK Seems nice. Stats seem important if you're a BST.
BRD: Insanely good; It's far-and-away the best TP piece and most of the time your best WS piece too. Get two of these.
RNG: Incredibly good; It's the best snapshot, best WS piece, and best or close-to-best midshot (situationally) which is...what you do. Get this if you ever shoot.
SAM: Very good; I'd argue it's not the greatest TP piece, but it's close and still very good there. Best WS piece becomes an even better WS piece. No brainer.
NIN: Incredibly good; Best TP piece and (often) best WS piece, becoming even better. What are you doing on NIN if not DDing, so this will be used nearly 100% of the time.
DRG: Incredibly good; Strong contender for a TP piece (since it keeps your wyvern alive) some of the time. Nearly always best WS piece. Again, for a DD...increasing your damage is kinda the thing you spend your gil on.
SMN: Insanely good; Totally irreplaceable piece that offers stats you won't find anywhere else. Get this ASAP.
BLU: Insanely good; BiS for blue magic skill, incredibly good TP piece, excellent WS piece. Why would this ever not be +2?
COR: Very good; A nice boost to your magical WS, some physical WS, and snapshot. Not used in all your WS sets so it's a little bump down from the other DDs, but quite solid.
PUP: I don't play this ***, but it's my understanding: mostly used for nuking pet which is trash. I guess you can get some PDL sometimes, but the stats are awful (DEX/AGI).
DNC: Insanely good; PDL, DEX, STP. Excellent TP piece and incredible WS piece, especially for a job that drops mob DEF. Waltz potency can help make your waltz sets better, plus the CHR. Must have.
SCH: Insanely good; MB and especially helix are boosted a lot by all the stats on the +2. Get this ***immediately, unless you don't ever nuke on SCH (you're playing it wrong)
GEO: Very good; Without Idris (no coalitions) I'd bump this to Insanely good, but with Idris I think the 2% luopan absorb is nice and worth investing into, but not as huge. The other stats are 100% irrelevant, but that luopan absorb could win you a fight so...I'd still suggest getting it.
RUN: Quite niche; I prefer to idle in this because the meva is BiS and most of the time the absorb from the Warder's Charm won't be particularly relevant. The +enmity and -dt can also make some sets a bit easier to work around. That said, it's easy enough to get by with +1 or without having the neck at all. Pretty meh.

Organized loosely by strength:
Where you decide to draw the line between "worth it" and "not worth it" depends entirely on how many jobs you're playing, which jobs they are, how much gil you have, and about 100 other factors. I can't possibly figure that out for you so figure it out yourselves, ya lazy ***.

You'll be getting some swarts from the Dyna runs, there's also Omen you could farm, so why we compare buying all swarts and none of the heroisms?

And if starting from 0 coalitions, 6 month time frame you could get 3,750 beits from ambu in that time without spending a single gil, no way you aren't doing monthly Ambu.

Good point Nariont, I'm still sleepy and wasn't thinking of outside gear lol

You act like I'm not still getting the other 8% chance of absorbs with my +1 neck lmao

2 extra attacks absorbed per 100 than me. It's not a bad investment butI wouldn't say is a "good" investment. My luopon only dies ever in what, sortie and ody gaol? /shrug

Opportunity cost my brother. You can sell those Swarts, heroism crystals, and beitetsus. You can't sell the free RP from standing around in Dynamis.


It dies there because you're missing 2% in your set.

Sooo youre gonna burn 50 mil in swarts that drop to you in dyna for MACC+30 (thats literally the only stat that really matters there, I believe melee GEO uses Maxentius for better BH damage, but I could be wrong) instead of burning 50 mil to keep your bubble alive longer, which is again the geos primary role?

Odd choice, I question your decision making. Perhaps you need to read up on Opportunity Cost like that other dude.

Who said they were dumping 50mil of swarts in their idris?

GEO should (IMO) be using Idris for Ngai, where having the bubble DT while also being melee is important. At least for my strat. I have always melee'd with Idris (and so has every other GEO in my group) during Ngai V25. Might be worth doing it for some Sortie basement bosses too, for the same reason. You might get marginally better DPS from another club, but keeping your bubble alive > the DPS increase, I think...

Granted we have a murder hobo for a GEO so he uses Dagda instead, bubble be damned.

Huh why am I being quoted here? I didn't initially quote it, but I was replying to this msg, about comparing the full cost of buying swarts, beits and hy baylds but free rping the neck, when you can get some of that swarts, beits and baylds working up to having coalitions done. Why are you talking about selling the mats? My argument was if we are listing the full cost of Idris with no grind/prep then also compare the heroism cost for laziness. Or go the other way and compare the reduced cost of smart building the idris vs free rping the neck. Apples to apples.

The reason Nynja doesn't include crystals is because there is a free (including opportunity costs) way to get RP on a neck. You're not giving up anything to get free RP.

There's no free (including opportunity cost) way to get a R15 Idris. You have to give away items that are worth gil.

It's apples and oranges, actually.

Right.. except he didn't mention anything about selling the mats instead of using them? Did he?


I brought up using that 46mil towards building an Idris instead of buying the +2 neck (IF they were idris-less and planning to geo and convincing them to just work towards idris), which by Nynja's calculations more than covers the entire cost of the HP bayld. And noone ever said anything about going all the way to R15 besides Nynja himself. My own Idris is R1, I have other priorities.


Buukki also made the same comparison, even tho I wasn't specific in my own post about base Idris.

I'm not talking to the geo that has a billion gil, this whole thread is irrelevant to that person. I'd say talking to the person with multiple jobs or limited gil or both.