Limbus 2025

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Limbus 2025
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 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2025-07-04 21:44:47
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Asura.Zirk said: »
happen to pick a mob in the same spot of the same floor twice in a row.
Once again
Mobs in Apollyon dont have precise spots like they do in Temenos.

I've kited through Undead floor 1 and got 5 doomed 1 ghost 1 wight, and I've kited through and got 4 corse 3 wights.

I've ported to Lizards floor 3(?) and seen 4 turtles right at the first alcove, and I've seen 6 raptors at the same spot.

But more importantly: How do you know its the same mob?
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2025-07-04 22:07:04
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Meeble said: »
Depends on how the ITG pick happens. If it's a Taisaijin thing where it upgrades/despawns a random mob in place, then sure, much RNG.

If the ITG pick happens as something spawns, it's not picking from thousands of mobs. Just whatever selection happens to be currently dead when the old ??? goes poof.

I mean, it would be pretttttty lucky to be the same pack of mobs during an 80 second spawn window and zero other mobs happen to be dead at the same time. as I hear it, there's a billion bots in there. So.

It could rotate mob type weekly, or something. It's all the same mob clustered together so that'd work.
 Asura.Zirk
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By Asura.Zirk 2025-07-04 22:16:32
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I didn't say it was the same mob, I said the ??? happened to be in the same spot on the same floor, where the botters tend to set up camp. The fact where the mobs are is varying but the ??? is ending up in the same spot is indicating it's not about which mobs are where, it's about where mob turnover is happening, and the most turnover is happening where a bot party is camped. This is suggesting all mobs in the zone act as a placeholder for the ??? NM when the NM window is open, otherwise you have to start relying on luck that the selected mob type or selected specific mob just happened to be in the same spot twice in a row.

So both the simplest and least reliant on luck theory is that any mob is a placeholder for the NM. You kill enough mobs in the same spot you'll always get the NM/??? to spawn there eventually (if you're the only one in the zone killing mobs/very little mob turnover elsewhere). As I claimed before, I thought Temenos was bugged so that is the reason for NMs/???s being rare in Temenos, not some more convoluted theory, and I predicted SE would fix Temenos in the next patch or two, and that is exactly what ended up happening.
 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2025-07-04 23:40:42
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Asura.Zirk said: »
otherwise you have to start relying on luck that the selected mob type or selected specific mob just happened to be in the same spot twice in a row.
I cant be bothered to confirm, but I'm gonna presume each floor has the same amount of mobs. There are 18 floors in Apollyon.

So you have a sample size of one on a 5.5% chance of a mob on the same floor being chosen as the ITG mob, and with that sample size of one on a 5.5% chance, you're pretty much stating it as fact.
 Asura.Zirk
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By Asura.Zirk 2025-07-04 23:50:52
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It's not just the same floor, it's the exact same spot, in the middle of the pack of mobs where a bot party camps, not at beginning of the floor or near the porter where human players tend to kill. So 5.5% is not an accurate value to assign.

This has been the trend since the beginning with Asura Apollyon. The first 2-3 ??? were all at the porter where human players kill because everyone is rushing into the content and learning it etc. Then once everyone see's how boring and grindy it is, the bots started coming out, and the last three ??? have all been in the middle of the mob pack where bot parties camp. The trend could not be more clear as to the significance of mob turnover, wherever the turnover is highest is your greatest chance of finding the ???.

A better stat analysis would be to analyze how many mob deaths can be attributed to bot parties, and how many can be attributed to human players.
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By K123 2025-07-05 07:37:31
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So who is going to explain to me why I can't touch it and get points? I get "nothing out of the ordinary" but haven't touched one for days. I just entered to touch it without killing anything but I know people who have done this before no problem.
 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2025-07-05 10:11:18
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June 27
Asura.Rassy said: »
NE floor 3. near the center of the map surrounded by a bunch of mobs. Only need sneak to get it it seems.


June 30
Asura.Zirk said: »
Asura Apollyon ??? in the middle of SE floor 3.


July 4
Asura.Mongrellian said: »
Asura Apollyon ??? is on SE Floor #3 near the middle of the floor


Again, this is a 5.5% chance of catching the same floor. Its incredibly bold to say "this is how it works" on a sample size of one.
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By klayy 2025-07-05 11:32:27
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
For it to land in the exact same spot twice in a row, across a thousand different mobs, makes lottery seemingly hard to believe, is the point

OK so the ??? disappears and the window reopens.. immediately? after an hour? Its not long. Ive seen apolly repop within an hr or 2 when when it could have done.

At this point, there's no NM. People need to start killing things for the lotto NM to show up. The bots are constant. The rest of us aren't. I feel like there's a decent amount of ppl doing limbus when I run through there but we spend a lot of time traveling, sneaking/invising etc. The bots do not. I think ppl underestimate how many mobs they kill in relation to the rest of us, especially if you limit it to like a specific 2 hr window. Im likely not in there then. The bots will be.

The same spot just amplifies this imo. Its in the center of the floor.. no soloer fights anything there. I have a BRD to sleep anything and I dont fight there lol. And sometimes the odds are what they are. Im gonna borrow a couple of NBA draft lottery examples... sometimes the Orlando Magic win the lottery 2x in a row. despite having the worst odds (1/66) the second time. (Shaq, Chris Webber). I'd mention when Cleveland won 3 of 4 but... lol. Dallas (also lol) just won despite 1.2% odds. Apolly has moved 11 times total. So any outcome is going to feel like (and be) 1/11 even if it seems super improbable. The bots non stop killing is why Im saying it's not that improbable.

I mentioned a day or two ago I parked myself in central 1 for 11-12 mins (one Set of SV songs) at 170 pts/7 kills cuz id opened all my chest already. Filled up my bar 6 times. At full points that would be almost be like 1900 units in 11 minutes. For an hour, round it up or down or w/e 9K an hour. Thats more pts and faster than a normal climb WITH a 3K chest at the end.

Again, still not sure why this is a big topic of conversion. Apolly at least has been predictable in its popping. Which is kinda all that matters?
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By K123 2025-07-05 12:02:10
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I don't think think the ??? pops where the mob is killed but where it spawned
 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2025-07-05 12:08:04
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K123 said: »
I don't think think the ??? pops where the mob is killed but where it spawned
I can personally confirm this is 1 gazillion percent wrong as I've popped a ??? myself

Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Good news, I can confirm the ??? pops as soon as you kill the target mob.
 Asura.Zirk
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By Asura.Zirk 2025-07-05 12:51:42
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I never said "this is how it works", I presented the theory that doesn't rely on bots getting lucky that the selected mob/mob type keeps spawning in their vicinity, and it is also the simplest theory that explains all the observations, and thus per Occam's Razor it should be the preferred theory.

Moreover, the game rolls a random mob type theory arose from trying to reconcile Apollyon ??? appearance rates with Temenos ??? appearance rates. I tried to point out I think this is a trap everyone is falling into because Temenos seems like it's bugged and thus its data should be disregarded. Since then SE confirmed they are addressing Temenos ???, so that further confirms my hunch Temenos is bugged. If you accept Temenos is bugged then there really is zero reason to think the game is randomly rolling a mob type or a specific mob.
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By Taint 2025-07-05 13:03:02
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To be fair the Temenos pops on Asura were also at Bot camps. Middle rooms with 2 mob groups.
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By K123 2025-07-05 13:23:29
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Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
K123 said: »
I don't think think the ??? pops where the mob is killed but where it spawned
I can personally confirm this is 1 gazillion percent wrong as I've popped a ??? myself

Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Good news, I can confirm the ??? pops as soon as you kill the target mob.
Right but did you walk up to the mob and kill it where it spawned or was roaming? If so that doesn't disprove what I said.
 Asura.Zirk
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By Asura.Zirk 2025-07-05 13:34:57
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As I mentioned earlier, the first 2-3 Apollyon ??? on Asura were right next to the porter where no mobs spawn, its people pulling/training them there and killing them. So the ??? definitely lands where the NM was defeated.
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 Asura.Zirk
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By Asura.Zirk 2025-07-05 13:36:35
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Taint said: »
To be fair the Temenos pops are Asura were also at Bot camps. Middle rooms with 2 mob groups.

Yeah, I think Temenos and Apollyon are supposed to be the same, just Temenos is bugged so under certain conditions the NM is no longer checking as ITG and thus likely won't drop the ??? when killed (this is based on what SE said in their hotfix two days after release).
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By K123 2025-07-05 14:11:24
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Asura.Zirk said: »
As I mentioned earlier, the first 2-3 Apollyon ??? on Asura were right next to the porter where no mobs spawn, its people pulling/training them there and killing them. So the ??? definitely lands where the NM was defeated.
Ok, thanks.
 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2025-07-05 14:23:35
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K123 said: »
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
K123 said: »
I don't think think the ??? pops where the mob is killed but where it spawned
I can personally confirm this is 1 gazillion percent wrong as I've popped a ??? myself

Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Good news, I can confirm the ??? pops as soon as you kill the target mob.
Right but did you walk up to the mob and kill it where it spawned or was roaming? If so that doesn't disprove what I said.
I train 5-10 mobs to the portal, kill what I need and port up leaving the rest of the mobs to snooze near the portal to ambush the next sucker.

The statement “this is wrong because Ive personally popped a ??? myself” in response to “I think the ??? pops where the ITG mob originally spawned” implies that the statement I am responding to is incorrect based on my own experiences with substantial evidence.
 Bahamut.Kaius
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By Bahamut.Kaius 2025-07-05 14:26:03
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Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
K123 said: »
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
K123 said: »
I don't think think the ??? pops where the mob is killed but where it spawned
I can personally confirm this is 1 gazillion percent wrong as I've popped a ??? myself

Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Good news, I can confirm the ??? pops as soon as you kill the target mob.
Right but did you walk up to the mob and kill it where it spawned or was roaming? If so that doesn't disprove what I said.
I train 5-10 mobs to the portal, kill what I need and port up leaving the rest of the mobs to snooze near the portal to ambush the next sucker.

Is there any other way to do Limbus??
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By K123 2025-07-05 15:27:31
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There's no better way if you have a BRD
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By K123 2025-07-06 05:44:50
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So we are assuming the 3k or 5k from chest is still entirely random right?
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By meylee 2025-07-06 06:22:32
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Can confirm, only found 1 temenos ??? and it was on Central Floor 2 on the exit ramp, implying someone trained ***there, killed, and got lucky
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2025-07-06 06:27:43
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meylee said: »
Can confirm, only found 1 temenos ??? and it was on Central Floor 2 on the exit ramp, implying someone trained ***there, killed, and got lucky
That's on Bahamut server, correct?
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By meylee 2025-07-06 06:42:41
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yes
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By K123 2025-07-06 06:48:57
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If your WS would do more than 99k does it do e.g. 50k or 55k or is the 50% DT calculated after and the most you can do is 49999? Highest I have hit so far is 48600
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By K123 2025-07-06 06:52:00
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Nvm you do break 50k
 Bismarck.Sterk
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By Bismarck.Sterk 2025-07-06 06:52:06
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You can do over 50k dmg WSs. Mumei does it regularly at high TP values.
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By K123 2025-07-06 06:55:59
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Bismarck.Sterk said: »
You can do over 50k dmg WSs. Mumei does it regularly at high TP values.
3k Torc can too.
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By K123 2025-07-06 06:58:56
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I'm joining JP groups where they insist WAR subs SAM and uses Great Axe but it sucks compared to DRK or SAM. The COR and BRD always fight other mobs so it's not like it causes more SC. 2x savage does more than UH UH + light too.
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