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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2025-07-02 11:46:44
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Fenrir.Jinxs said: »
Is the bonus the same for subsequent attempts? because if it stays at the second value I could see the appeal to just sticking around especially if the mob type is dying faster than the ones at the doors.

I was under the impression it was halved each time.

It's only halved once. No human is going to sit there and spam mobs nonstop for 170 points, the appeal is for bots who are literally not there amassing free points
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By K123 2025-07-02 11:53:16
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Fenrir.Jinxs said: »
if it stays at the second value I could see the appeal to just sticking around especially if the mob type is dying faster than the ones at the doors.
Because when you're botting while you sleep you don't give a ***. People are botting 5500/hr with a full party. Easier to set up than a bot which changes floors, etc.
 Valefor.Philemon
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By Valefor.Philemon 2025-07-02 11:58:44
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Maybe I'm just not aware of what bots are capable of but the only two mobs that don't aggro sound/sight and don't link are dolls and pots in Temenos. Is that what they're botting or are they capable of crowd control as well?
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By klayy 2025-07-02 12:00:30
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Fenrir.Jinxs said: »
In Tenmos 130
170
85
85

Is the bonus the same for subsequent attempts? because if it stays at the second value I could see the appeal to just sticking around especially if the mob type is dying faster than the ones at the doors.

You'll get 85 on loop after that. Doesnt diminish at all over time. I've hung around on a floor (legit lol) 2-3 times. It's nice not to have to sneak invis and port up every 2 mins or so. But killing the same 5 mobs over and over for more than idk 30-45 mins.. gets dull pretty quick as well. I'd pop SVCC on the BRD, see what the COR can do in terms of resetting/lowering that timer and hang out for 2 SVCCs.
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 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2025-07-02 12:05:49
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Valefor.Philemon said: »
Maybe I'm just not aware of what bots are capable of but the only two mobs that don't aggro sound/sight and don't link are dolls and pots in Temenos. Is that what they're botting or are they capable of crowd control as well?
Crowd control for what??

These things dont hit hard and they die fast.
 Valefor.Philemon
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By Valefor.Philemon 2025-07-02 12:13:57
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Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Valefor.Philemon said: »
Maybe I'm just not aware of what bots are capable of but the only two mobs that don't aggro sound/sight and don't link are dolls and pots in Temenos. Is that what they're botting or are they capable of crowd control as well?
Crowd control for what??

These things dont hit hard and they die fast.
Hmm that's true isn't it.
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By K123 2025-07-02 12:17:29
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Valefor.Philemon said: »
Maybe I'm just not aware of what bots are capable of but the only two mobs that don't aggro sound/sight and don't link are dolls and pots in Temenos. Is that what they're botting or are they capable of crowd control as well?
I've seen them clumped in the middle of rooms in Temenos. BRD COR GEO RDM, 2 DD - the mobs get killed fast.

There was a room in Temenos I went into the corner against the wall as just SAM+BRD with Sylvie, Koru, Cherukiki and I'm confident I could afk camp there and not die if I wanted to without more chars even. Add a COR in there and any more bodies you can get and you'd have a safe camp.
 Fenrir.Jinxs
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By Fenrir.Jinxs 2025-07-02 13:14:09
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At 30-45 seconds a kill? Probably can be faster
But let's say you are completely the objective at 4mins max

At an hour that's roughly ~15 objectives
If it's 85
1275 ?

That doesn't sound too terrible to throw on a show and just mindlessly do it instead of dealing with sneak and invis.

It's probably an even better rate than what I napkined

Personally, I could only see myself doing this in Tenmos, appollyon just feels better to actually do the objective all around because I don't have to bother with sneak or invis.
 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2025-07-02 13:33:10
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4 mins is very high. Remember you're not running around, not putting s/i up, not dealing with teleporter. You're camped at one spot and having waves of mobs fed to you.

At 45 seconds a kill, you're completing an 85 unit objective in 3 minutes, which is 1700 units per hour. At 30 seconds per kill, you're completing an 85 unit objective in 2 minutes, or 2550 units / hour.

At that point, you may start to hit limitations due to mob respawn speed.
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By Taint 2025-07-02 14:05:51
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Mobs have a 1min respawn timer. A single DD can't keep pace but a fully buffed party would probably need 2 camps.
 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2025-07-02 14:13:47
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I know I wasn't killing mobs fast enough to keep up w/ a 1 min respawn timer.. but I was solo and running out of targets in Apollyon NE somefloor.

so I wonder about variations in respawn timer. but probably just difference between temenos and apollyon
 Fenrir.Jinxs
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By Fenrir.Jinxs 2025-07-02 14:15:31
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Taint said: »
Mobs have a 1min respawn timer. A single DD can't keep pace but a fully buffed party would probably need 2 camps.

Elbow rooms seem like they have 2-3 camps in them
The square rooms without including the stairs are like 2.5
Some exits are like 1.5
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By K123 2025-07-02 14:23:20
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Taint said: »
Mobs have a 1min respawn timer. A single DD can't keep pace but a fully buffed party would probably need 2 camps.
Not sure about this, in Apollyon I was soloing mobs way slower than this and they weren't respawning. That or they don't necessarily have set spawn points.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2025-07-02 14:29:59
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They did say in the patch notes or the pre-release commentary that respawn was 1min, and you can see this clearly in Temenos when you fight in the middle of mobs, kill 1-2, and then get overwhelmed with respawns, especially solo. In Temenos, they definitely have their own set camps/respawn points, but I have also seen in Apollyon where I've cleared a handful of mobs near the entrance of each floor, and respawns were much further out/nowhere near where I initially pulled them. I see this especially on Undead or Demon floors. Maybe the respawn points are much larger in Apollyon since the floors are open area?
 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2025-07-02 14:36:49
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K123 said: »
Taint said: »
Mobs have a 1min respawn timer. A single DD can't keep pace but a fully buffed party would probably need 2 camps.
Not sure about this, in Apollyon I was soloing mobs way slower than this and they weren't respawning. That or they don't necessarily have set spawn points.
The entire section is a mobs spawn point in aby. Its very noticeable in SE when you beeline to the porter on 1f and sometimes get 4 doomed and sometimes get 0 doomed and 4 corse.

Its also the why I keep saying that ITG in Teme would be more noticeable with the latest theories floating around.
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By klayy 2025-07-02 14:59:08
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Does "feel" slower than 1 minute. DRG/BRD/COR/alts I can clear a room of 5 and have idk 5-10 seconds to chill between repops. If I spent a full hour there and camped it legit, feel like I could pull in ~3.5k units in an hour. Diarmuid to Diarmuid reliably two shots everything cept like flowers, humanoid ghrahs, couple of other mob types maybe. Would add I also feel like "1 minute" operates a bit like a tock or tick or whatever. Often times -- like on central where u have to kill 7 so you clean the room then kill 2 repops -- the 2nd and 3rd mob often repop at the same time even though its impossible for me to have kill both at the same time.
 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2025-07-02 16:03:33
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Monsters despawn/spawn twice a minute for the whole zone, so even if it's a 1 minute repop you would have to kill within 30 seconds of spawning to be able to kill it once every 1.5 minutes. For a group clearing a set of 5 monsters in Temenos, you're probably looking at more like one kill of each monster every 2 minutes, so 5*60/2 = 150 kills/hour for a single monster group.

150 kills per hour in central at 7 kills per bar (party of 3 with level 130) is about 3.5k points per hour. If you use two groups and kill at top speed, of course you can go higher than that.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2025-07-02 16:49:54
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Fenrir.Jinxs said: »
At 30-45 seconds a kill? Probably can be faster
But let's say you are completely the objective at 4mins max

At an hour that's roughly ~15 objectives
If it's 85
1275 ?

That doesn't sound too terrible to throw on a show and just mindlessly do it instead of dealing with sneak and invis.

It's probably an even better rate than what I napkined

Personally, I could only see myself doing this in Tenmos, appollyon just feels better to actually do the objective all around because I don't have to bother with sneak or invis.

Tenemos central tower is the only place you need to worry about sneak/invis, the rest you can just run to the exist and murder anything that aggros. Each floor is small enough that your only gonna end up with a half dozen or so monsters and they don't hit very hard.
 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2025-07-02 18:07:56
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Time spent killing beyond the floor goal is a waste of time for absolutely no benefit unless you're doing a second run immediately and can use that credit. For how anal the min-maxers here traditionally are, they seem rather lax about tacking an extra 20++ seconds over 25 floors "murdering anything that aggros".

Now, I'm hardly gonna consider myself great at math, but 20 seconds over 25 floors is an extra 8 minutes and 20 seconds, and I wouldnt consider that chump change when it takes ~55 minutes to get all the temenos temps.
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By klayy 2025-07-02 18:08:27
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I feel like there's two floors I actively despise lol. Central 4.. well just the start of it.. annoying af. true sight ghrahs at the start.. s/i first, hope you get by them but if you dont its an immediate u-turn back to the start. If you get out of that first room its fine. but it's gonna be rough pulling them all back, killing them, s/i again before repops. Easily one of the worst parts of the climb. A few times I've aggroed a ghrah immediately but gotten thru the gigas before s/i drops... then you get more ghrah aggro and you're sorta forced to kill there but its a nasty place to get out of. I'm not sure the goblins in the next room magic aggro but kinda feels like it sometimes.

But to Saevel's point.. I think last night on central 4 I got really messed up. Id slept a bunch of gobs at some point in that second room and made a break for it. Got to the end (ts ghrahs) so i aggroed them on purpose cuz thats what you do... went to horde them and the brd (and the cor) were both stuck in the chest room with gobs actively beating them up. I got all turned around and ended up in dead end rooms with pixies and unseelies (which either dont blood aggro or i got massively lucky). So im trying to drag the brd and cor to the end before the DRG dies and i have no idea. Monberaux didnt make it but idk what happened after that. But the main lived. I sleep as many grhahs as I can but at some pt the gobs woke up and then linked with more gobs to the pt where I must have had 12 of them on me. One grhah light based so was unsleepable so made sure I killed that one then got the heck out.

I wanna say West 6 is the other potentially nasty one. Nothing but unseelies and pixies on path and ghrahs on the lower floor. Ive tried just aggroing the five ghrahs at the end and killing them. But if you get hit with an immediate sleepga, its a wrap. Happened to me just once. Then even if you kill them all in time to s/i before repops, half the time you're just gonna aggro all the pixies anyway and they can't be horded. Then you're stuck killing five more mobs that can all dispel. I've tried s/i to the portal room and then use the COR to try shoot ghrahs in and the pixies just come anyway. So kinda just thinking fight the pixies anyway.
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2025-07-02 18:12:30
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klayy said: »
I wanna say West 6 is the other potentially nasty one. Nothing but unseelies and pixies on path and ghrahs on the lower floor. Ive tried just aggroing the five ghrahs at the end and killing them. But if you get hit with an immediately sleepga, its a wrap. Happened to me just once. Then even if you kill them all in time to s/i before repops, half the time you're just gonna aggro all the pixies anyway and they can't be horded.
Kill the lullabyable Unseelies, sneak/invis past Pixies.

I dont know why people insist they're true sight/sound. They arent. Wiki says they do blood aggro which may have caused confusion with past comments about them. Theres no mention of the pixies in Reisen being blood aggro though, and I dont think there are any other natively aggressive pixies in this game.
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By klayy 2025-07-02 18:17:09
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Could i suppose. Risk of full dispel is much higher on unseelies. Im about as careful/good at 2 shotting dangerous mobs as I can be but stuff happens.
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2025-07-02 18:41:38
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I get full dispel is annoying. You know what else is a full dispel?

Dying because you have more unsleepable pixies on you than you can handle. Jus sayin.
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By SimonSes 2025-07-02 18:44:16
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klayy said: »
I feel like there's two floors I actively despise lol. Central 4.. well just the start of it.. annoying af. true sight ghrahs at the start.. s/i first, hope you get by them but if you dont its an immediate u-turn back to the start. If you get out of that first room its fine. but it's gonna be rough pulling them all back, killing them, s/i again before repops. Easily one of the worst parts of the climb. A few times I've aggroed a ghrah immediately but gotten thru the gigas before s/i drops... then you get more ghrah aggro and you're sorta forced to kill there but its a nasty place to get out of. I'm not sure the goblins in the next room magic aggro but kinda feels like it sometimes.

But to Saevel's point.. I think last night on central 4 I got really messed up. Id slept a bunch of gobs at some point in that second room and made a break for it. Got to the end (ts ghrahs) so i aggroed them on purpose cuz thats what you do... went to horde them and the brd (and the cor) were both stuck in the chest room with gobs actively beating them up. I got all turned around and ended up in dead end rooms with pixies and unseelies (which either dont blood aggro or i got massively lucky). So im trying to drag the brd and cor to the end before the DRG dies and i have no idea. Monberaux didnt make it but idk what happened after that. But the main lived. I sleep as many grhahs as I can but at some pt the gobs woke up and then linked with more gobs to the pt where I must have had 12 of them on me. One grhah light based so was unsleepable so made sure I killed that one then got the heck out.

I wanna say West 6 is the other potentially nasty one. Nothing but unseelies and pixies on path and ghrahs on the lower floor. Ive tried just aggroing the five ghrahs at the end and killing them. But if you get hit with an immediate sleepga, its a wrap. Happened to me just once. Then even if you kill them all in time to s/i before repops, half the time you're just gonna aggro all the pixies anyway and they can't be horded. Then you're stuck killing five more mobs that can all dispel. I've tried s/i to the portal room and then use the COR to try shoot ghrahs in and the pixies just come anyway. So kinda just thinking fight the pixies anyway.

https://www.ffxiah.com/item/15320/powder-boots
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By K123 2025-07-02 18:53:42
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I also got hit by an instant sleepga from a Grah and died
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By SimonSes 2025-07-02 18:57:17
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The true answer to all your problem guys is BLU. You can petrify both pixies and grahs and you can aoe heal if your party get slept. You can also stun lock pixies, so they can't even move :)
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 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2025-07-02 19:05:11
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I typically just kill -> S/I -> warp up -> I -> run to porter -> kill -> warp up -> repeat

This way melee buffs and sneak can stay up and I don't train a bunch of junk to the porter.
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