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Limbus 2025
By crazy00 2025-06-25 09:08:19
can only play at certain times at night, and ,again, i think this goes for most adults.
Sure, but the point is for sortie you also have to arrange your playtime around your group (wtf 6 boxes sortie) so you can't just pop on for 1hr whenever you feel like.
But you can with limbus.
Seems like I am having a hard time passing my point across. Events that are interesting to me are events that very difficult with big rewards. I'm not asking it to be an instance. It can be an NM I can pop at any time. Like trials.
Yeah, I can play limbus any time. What's the challenge? Why do I care for something that can be accomplished by bots, with rewards that don't even beat what I already have?
Because stage 5 AF/Relic are going to improve the other stats! The ones we actually care about lol
 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2025-06-25 09:09:37
You could, but most people who bot like this multibox, and you'd be in trouble unless your plan is to upgrade the same slot on all jobs, or waste a lot of units.
By Godfry 2025-06-25 09:41:01
can only play at certain times at night, and ,again, i think this goes for most adults.
Sure, but the point is for sortie you also have to arrange your playtime around your group (wtf 6 boxes sortie) so you can't just pop on for 1hr whenever you feel like.
But you can with limbus.
Seems like I am having a hard time passing my point across. Events that are interesting to me are events that very difficult with big rewards. I'm not asking it to be an instance. It can be an NM I can pop at any time. Like trials.
Yeah, I can play limbus any time. What's the challenge? Why do I care for something that can be accomplished by bots, with rewards that don't even beat what I already have?
Because stage 5 AF/Relic are going to improve the other stats! The ones we actually care about lol
Yo... fo sho! Look at how much stronger my WAR will become once I replace my Nyame R30 for Pum Body. Maybe, now, I can finally beat Bumba!!!
Limbus is mid, at best!
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By Bahamut.Creaucent 2025-06-25 09:47:50
can only play at certain times at night, and ,again, i think this goes for most adults.
Sure, but the point is for sortie you also have to arrange your playtime around your group (wtf 6 boxes sortie) so you can't just pop on for 1hr whenever you feel like.
But you can with limbus.
Seems like I am having a hard time passing my point across. Events that are interesting to me are events that very difficult with big rewards. I'm not asking it to be an instance. It can be an NM I can pop at any time. Like trials.
Yeah, I can play limbus any time. What's the challenge? Why do I care for something that can be accomplished by bots, with rewards that don't even beat what I already have?
Because stage 5 AF/Relic are going to improve the other stats! The ones we actually care about lol
Yo... fo sho! Look at how much stronger my WAR will become once I replace my Nyame R30 for Pum Body. Maybe, now, I can finally beat Bumba!!!
Limbus is mid, at best!
Whining about maybe being able to beat v25 bumba when you already have beaten v25 bumba? I know its sarcasm.. just not very good sarcasm.
If you have rank 30 Nyame the catch up content isn't at all aimed at you. Limbus is aimed at people who have just come back to the game and they haven't cleared any of these hard bosses yet. This gear will give them a bit more of an edge over having the +2 or +3 armour. Limbus also gives pieces that were already BiS, lanun body and feet, a much need small power creep.
 Valefor.Philemon
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By Valefor.Philemon 2025-06-25 10:01:30
Bahamut.Creaucent said: »Limbus is aimed at people who have just come back to the game and they haven't cleared any of these hard bosses yet. This gear will give them a bit more of an edge over having the +2 or +3 armour. Limbus also gives pieces that were already BiS, lanun body and feet, a much need small power creep. I keep hearing that Limbus is for casuals or returning players but it's a pretty significant grind. Think about how many Temenos runs you have to do to +3 a piece on top of all the work it takes to +1, +2, and +3 versions. If anything I'd argue that returning players are the ones who should "settle" for +3 artifact/relic gear and do just about any other in-game activity instead.
Carbuncle.Maletaru
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2025-06-25 10:01:50
If only there were some kind of JSE that just got upgraded which was better than R30 nyame armor in the same slot. Unfortunately no such piece exists. It would be EXTRA funny if that piece were also used on WAR.
Damn, I wish such a piece of gear existed, it would really counter the point currently being raised.
Guess I'll just have to wait for Relic+5 to make this point.
[+]
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2025-06-25 10:04:36
Base JSE gear is never supposed to "beat" Top endgame gear, and generally speaking, outside of maybe a few cases or pieces here and there, never has (stuff like skill+ unique job property-boosting gear obv would).
JSE is intended for all players at varying levels, so having a difficult content associated with it is a terrible idea. It shouldn't be gated behind hard monsters and events, because then a large portion of players who could otherwise obtain the gear suddenly cannot as easily. Maybe you don't notice how they made both AF/Relic easier to obtain over the years by lowering cards, making scales drop from trash (so people can completely skip bosses), and dynamis no longer requiring a midboss clear to upgrade to +3 (+2 all you have to do is enter the zone and buy the mats). This is all part of their plan to make older gear more accessible to returning/newer players, likely so they can get into harder content faster.
The people who are good enough to clear the highest level of content in the game shouldn't be bothered that JSE+4 isn't better than the gear they got from Odyssey. That would also be extremely annoying to know players spent countless months clearing the V25 bosses and many hours grinding RP to max out their gear, only for +4 to completely crap on it instantly, and it can be obtained by noobs within a few hours. You should be relieved that they didn't go completely overboard with this and invalidate all of your efforts.
The content isn't even a month old. How do you know it won't scale to "hard" once NMs/bosses are released? Don't forget, Odyssey Sheol & Gaol were first "easy", with Sheol A added first. The top floors got progressively harder. By the time they added B/C, the content level was very high for the time. Gaol introduced the sliding difficulty, and they released veng tiers progressively. So while a content may start out easy and boring, that doesn't mean the final product will be. Look out for Besieged's final product, I doubt that will be "Easy". I would expect the final CL for Limbus to be at least 130 and scale upwards to 150 (If they continue with the sliding difficulty scale thing they have been doing with recent events).
You can complain about the gear and content now because its entry level, but maybe wait until the final product before passing judgement?
Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2025-06-25 10:10:03
I keep hearing that Limbus is for casuals or returning players but it's a pretty significant grind. Think about how many Temenos runs you have to do to +3 a piece on top of all the work it takes to +1, +2, and +3 versions.
Before card campaigns were a thing, roughly how many runs would a person have to do before being able to upgrade to +2? +3? Across how many jobs? JSE acquisition has always been a grind, this is not new with Limbus. What JSE acquisition has/should never be, is "difficult" (it should be harder than base acquisition, but nowhere near endgame content level stuff), if the intended target audience is your base casual players who are not top-end.
I'm in several newbie/help-each-other LSs, and they do not have a problem grinding out AF gear through Omen and such, because it is obtainable. They completely ignore Sortie, Dynamis, and Odyssey however, because it is much harder for them. Obtainable/Reasonable grinds don't really bother people if they get something from it frequently. (the reason why people HATE Sortie Prime grind so much is because the one saving grace, +2 earrings, have a TERRIBLE drop rate, and that makes the grind feel far worse because you don't get much along the journey).
Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2025-06-25 10:18:39
Think about how many Temenos runs you have to do to +3 a piece on top of all the work it takes to +1, +2, and +3 versions. The value of the temenos climb is unchanged: 7930 with a slim chance of an extra 2k. However the time to complete the climb has been shortened due to less kills. Lets presume its ~90 minutes now. 90 minutes for 7930 units = 5287 units per hour. at CL130, its four climbs to upgrade a body, the most expensive piece.
Thats how many Temenos runs you have to do to +4 a body (at CL130 with a party). And that ~90 minutes I posted was extremely unoptimized. Knowing what I know now, I can full clear Temenos in under 50 min. I'm eyeballing that time based on NiTro recast.
Lets just say four hours to upgrade the most expensive slot, give or take.
Lets compare that to Omen, where you'd need 60 cards to upgrade the same slot. A card run takes like 20 min and would net you about 4 cards per run (no campaign). 60 cards @ 4 cards per run = 15 runs at 20 minutes each = 5 hours. You also cant do Omen freely at your leisue, you're bound by canteens given one per 20 hours with a max of 4.
Since were talking body slots, upgrading relic body takes two weeks, as you need to unlock the other four slots. Individually they dont take much time, as getting to and killing wave 1 boss is pretty short. But you still need to enter four different zones on a 60 hour lockout.
By Shiva.Myamoto 2025-06-25 10:22:10
I am still confused at the assumption that new content means better gear... This game if nothing else has always made gear progression horizontal over the very many years. Which is why a lot of gear is still relevant despite being a decade old in some cases.
That warrior body piece at +4 is now virtually the equivalent to nyame r25, so a player who has yet to clear v20 bumba, or a solo player who has barely done any odyssey, or perhaps not much interest in doing odyssey content at that level, lacks a group etc etc etc... stands to gain a substantial piece for warrior wsd set.
This gear is not intended to replace gear, its simply another option depending on player progression, playstyle and content preference.
Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2025-06-25 10:23:14
can only play at certain times at night, and ,again, i think this goes for most adults.
Sure, but the point is for sortie you also have to arrange your playtime around your group (wtf 6 boxes sortie) so you can't just pop on for 1hr whenever you feel like.
But you can with limbus.
You just need to have an angry psychotic breakdown on people.
By SimonSes 2025-06-25 10:24:58
Bahamut.Creaucent said: »Limbus is aimed at people who have just come back to the game and they haven't cleared any of these hard bosses yet. This gear will give them a bit more of an edge over having the +2 or +3 armour. Limbus also gives pieces that were already BiS, lanun body and feet, a much need small power creep. I keep hearing that Limbus is for casuals or returning players but it's a pretty significant grind. Think about how many Temenos runs you have to do to +3 a piece on top of all the work it takes to +1, +2, and +3 versions. If anything I'd argue that returning players are the ones who should "settle" for +3 artifact/relic gear and do just about any other in-game activity instead.
Returning COR player wont be doing 5/5 +4 AF set for Aminon, but Returning WAR player should for sure do +4 relic head and +4 AF feet and body.
Generally speaking almost all WSD gear is amazing for returning players, because it's either BIS or only beaten by R30 Nyame and there is also several great TP pieces too, including some bis ones. The only other easily accessible gear that new/returning player should consider doing alongside is empy+3, but you cant grind that more than an hour per day and V0 clears for Odyssey and farm RP to R15, but that's limited by having access (42 days for new chars I think?) and having Segments. I don't see any other stuff that would be worth doing for armor slots.
By Godfry 2025-06-25 10:27:54
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »If only there were some kind of JSE that just got upgraded which was better than R30 nyame armor in the same slot. Unfortunately no such piece exists. It would be EXTRA funny if that piece were also used on WAR.
Damn, I wish such a piece of gear existed, it would really counter the point currently being raised.
Guess I'll just have to wait for Relic+5 to make this point.
Oddy was game-changing. You beat a boss and have access to it. Sortie gear was game changing as well, for a lot of jobs.
Limbus gear marginally beating Oddy gear, which came out years ago, is not impressive or interesting. If they don't add very strong bosses to Limbus, what's the point anyways? Oddy gear from previous vengeances helped beat the content. What's the point chasing Limbus gear? They are a marginal increase, at best, and they are JSE.
Simonsess makes a great point about returning players having easy access to better gear. I am all for that. I am not a returning player and my opinion is my own. lol.
By ibkee 2025-06-25 10:52:56
Oddy was game-changing. You beat a boss and have access to it. Sortie gear was game changing as well, for a lot of jobs.
Limbus gear marginally beating Oddy gear, which came out years ago, is not impressive or interesting. If they don't add very strong bosses to Limbus, what's the point anyways? Oddy gear from previous vengeances helped beat the content. What's the point chasing Limbus gear? They are a marginal increase, at best, and they are JSE.
What's the point in chasing anything? Grinding small upgrades is as classic FFXI as it comes, the game is built on small, incremental upgrades in which people will pay tens of millions gil for another +1STR simply because it's BiS (or sheer epeen)
Either way, it feels like people are missing an important point with Limbus. Maybe +4 isn't worth your time right now, but it's just the beginning and not the end. Say there's +5 and perhaps even augments. Now suddenly you're scrambling to grind +4 and are behind the curve.
[+]
By Godfry 2025-06-25 10:57:04
Oddy was game-changing. You beat a boss and have access to it. Sortie gear was game changing as well, for a lot of jobs.
Limbus gear marginally beating Oddy gear, which came out years ago, is not impressive or interesting. If they don't add very strong bosses to Limbus, what's the point anyways? Oddy gear from previous vengeances helped beat the content. What's the point chasing Limbus gear? They are a marginal increase, at best, and they are JSE.
What's the point in chasing anything? Grinding small upgrades is as classic FFXI as it comes, the game is built on small, incremental upgrades in which people will pay tens of millions gil for another +1STR simply because it's BiS (or sheer epeen)
Either way, it feels like people are missing an important point with Limbus. Maybe +4 isn't worth your time right now, but it's just the beginning and not the end. Say there's +5 and perhaps even augments. Now suddenly you're scrambling to grind +4 and are behind the curve.
I agree. Limbus would have made sense to me if it came out before Oddy. Or if they introduce super difficult bosses in the end. I dkny get gear for the sake of getting gear. I get gear for the sake of beating stronger content. They made us beat V15 with Reseijima gear, and that was fun. But now we have oddy and sortie gear, so it makes no sense to use strong gear from harder content to get mid gear from easier content.
By klayy 2025-06-25 11:03:59
The pattern of the game has been roll out something easy with some gains then roll out the rest later. Omen didnt have Ou at first. Dyna only had Sandy and iirc W3 wasnt immediately a thing right? Odyssey was just upgrading UNM pieces then bam Nyame/Sakpata etc. You could argue sort didnt totally follow this as its kinda still "easy" and the challenge is being fast/efficient enough to 9 boss etc etc. But then I'd argue that none of us are actually killing Aminon the way God intended lol. Maybe if you want a challenge, try melee him and see how it goes?
So why wouldn't limbus follow the same path? Its easy to do, the rewards range from decent to slight to non existent for now. And a few months or w/e from now, it will presumably be more challenging/rewarding.
I guess semi off-topic but not really... how do ppl think we were supposed to kill Bumba? Cuz I'm guessing Kaustra wasn't it lol.
By Kadokawa 2025-06-25 11:04:32
The poster above is just braging about he's progress in he's newly bought account, just ignore him, he's one of these Elite jerks.
Carbuncle.Maletaru
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2025-06-25 11:06:24
They made us beat V15 with Reseijima gear, and that was fun. But now we have oddy and sortie gear, so it makes no sense to use strong gear from harder content to get mid gear from easier content.
Um...who made you beat V15 with Reisenjima gear?
How did you beat V15 without Ody gear?
I mean, I guess it's technically possible but also kinda telling on yourself a bit.
Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2025-06-25 11:26:44
I guess semi off-topic but not really... how do ppl think we were supposed to kill Bumba? Cuz I'm guessing Kaustra wasn't it lol. The way we used to do initial V15 Bumba, just with 3 KI. Slow kill. Proc each aura using Bumba's mechanics (SC window, MB, Crits), rinse, repeat. Balance physical + Magic damage over the 3 fights. Wittle it down on each KI. Bumba changes element at set intervals, it's possible that nuking properly during this window has some affect on his successive -DT trait at V25. However, since zerg spam became a thing (with non-SCing WSs), nobody bothers to play to this mechanic so most don't even know about it. If you nuke incorrectly at bumba's element, he can enter into fetter mode instantly, and end the run. He can do this anyways on a set time period, but this is a penalty for making a mistake basically. So a V25 approach would likely be a meticulous and careful effort to never let him enter fetters accidentally, while timing his auras and carefully removing it each window. Super tall task, especially with an Add running around causing havoc.
The problem is Denounce. It has 2 versions, one flat out kills you, the other does not. There is no understanding as to why Denounce behaves the way it does, and this frustration (among other reasons, 3KI is longer) is the reason why players haven't bothered to play to Bumba's mechanics
Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2025-06-25 11:32:18
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »They made us beat V15 with Reseijima gear, and that was fun. But now we have oddy and sortie gear, so it makes no sense to use strong gear from harder content to get mid gear from easier content.
Um...who made you beat V15 with Reisenjima gear?
How did you beat V15 without Ody gear?
I mean, I guess it's technically possible but also kinda telling on yourself a bit.
It's not even true since the Delve days. People set up Plasm farming parties to buy base gear and then progressively tackled the harder bosses over time. All you need is a V1 clear on any Odyssey boss and you can progressively scale up to beat V15s. It was intentionally made this way, but there was absolutely no jump straight into V15 with Valorous gear... lol
By Nariont 2025-06-25 11:37:06
The pattern of the game has been roll out something easy with some gains then roll out the rest later. Omen didnt have Ou at first. Dyna only had Sandy and iirc W3 wasnt immediately a thing right? Odyssey was just upgrading UNM pieces then bam Nyame/Sakpata etc.
The only difference between this content addition and others is that they didnt play their big cards initially, omen/unm/dyna/sortie all had very potent upgrades on release iirc, maybe not for every job but majority got a significant upgrade. Players have gotten super used to that over the yrs so limbus is "bad" when this is more in line with how content drops used to be, perhaps slightly better since its JSE so that ensured everyone got something, even if it were minor.
By klayy 2025-06-25 12:07:17
Dynamis sandy on its own was received pretty poorly. COR feet were the only massive winner at least initially. But im a COR main soo :) RDM feet but yeah most of the feet were not deemed useful. Thinkt he bnulk of the WSD didnt drop till jeuno.
By Godfry 2025-06-25 12:25:46
The poster above is just braging about he's progress in he's newly bought account, just ignore him, he's one of these Elite jerks.
Woah, what has bitten you, dude? What have I said that hurt you? Is it not true that having limbus gear before oddy would make more sense? How is beating Oddy being an elite jerk? Is saying that I find oddy a difficult event and elite behavior? Cause I can show you a handful of posts where people claim oddy is actually easy (I've always found it challenging).
But now that we have powerful gear (nyame r25 is super strong), and primes, I was looking forward to having a challenging content to use it on.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2025-06-25 13:06:02
Thw driving force behind ffx11 has always been the challenge, not the grind. Eeeehr... I see what you mean, can't say I disagree but I would say it's been both, always?
And for MMOs (especially those born in that era) it was more often than not the same.
Granted that the "challenge" was usually provided by the game being utterly punishing and user unfriendly, rather than what you would define "challenging" by nowadays' standards.
Not a lot of content in FFXI ever fell in this modern definition of "challenging", quite a small minority of content I would say.
But I digress, and Thorny elaborated this thought in a much clearer and more articulated way in another thread many months ago.
[+]
Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2025-06-25 13:09:28
I keep hearing that Limbus is for casuals or returning players but it's a pretty significant grind. Agreed.
They shouldn't have given these away for free, but making the accrue rate slightly (emphasis on SLIGHTLY) faster and/or make every piece cost 10k would've been just perfect, if you ask me, especially considering the amount of improvement these new pieces provide.
But... who knows? Maybe when SE adds NMs we will have a more "challenging" way with a higher difficulty but enabling us to accrue points faster, provided you have the firepower to bring down those NMs.
Pretty much granting us what Godfry asked for a few posts ago.
I mean, I'm not sure this is what SE is goin to be giving us, but one man can dream, right?!
[+]
By Godfry 2025-06-25 13:09:47
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »They made us beat V15 with Reseijima gear, and that was fun. But now we have oddy and sortie gear, so it makes no sense to use strong gear from harder content to get mid gear from easier content.
Um...who made you beat V15 with Reisenjima gear?
How did you beat V15 without Ody gear?
I mean, I guess it's technically possible but also kinda telling on yourself a bit.
It's not even true since the Delve days. People set up Plasm farming parties to buy base gear and then progressively tackled the harder bosses over time. All you need is a V1 clear on any Odyssey boss and you can progressively scale up to beat V15s. It was intentionally made this way, but there was absolutely no jump straight into V15 with Valorous gear... lol
Wait, were you able to replace your Reisenjima gear completely once you beat lower Oddy vengeances? Or You are just trying really hard to misinterpret what I said just to make a point? Not only reisenjima but AF-RELIC gear were still super relevant before Sortie. A lot of us had to change sets to come up with a sweet spot between survivability and damage. Nobody went to oddy clears with full oddy gear on every slot. But you know this. You are just pulling a Maletaru for no apparent reason. lol.
To your Delve point. That's the point I am making. I don't want to get gear just for the sake of getting gear. I get gear to beat more difficult content. Oddy-Sortie gear and primes are already super powerful - enough to beat everything in the game.
I'm not interested in the grind for the sake of marginal increase in performance where such increase is not needed.
I'm glad people are having a blast with Limbus and they see no issue with it tho. For me, Omen and Oddy were peak!
Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2025-06-25 13:12:52
“I want more challenges like V25 fights”
>>beats the fight once then rely on amp cheese to rank the armor to R30
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yes I get the amp cheese is more efficient RP/sec. If thats your takeaway, you missed what I was saying.
By Dodik 2025-06-25 13:20:08
If your argument is "rimbus doesn't have enough reward to keep me interested" I think you're missing the point of rimbus.
It's a more relaxed content compared to the other current endgame content, you can do it full alliance if you want, you can do it solo if you want, you can take pet jobs and any other job under the sun and it doesn't hurt you at all wrt rewards.
Compared to sortie it's like relaxing in a warm tub after a hard day.
You're like the squirrel on a treadmill chasing the nut thinking if you just go fast enough you'll get there.
Maybe slow down and enjoy the game on your way. Most fun for me is killing stuff and using the unique combat system.
If you want sweaty hard stuff with big PP rewards there's ody and sortie for you, that's covered.
[+]
Shiva.Thorny
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By Shiva.Thorny 2025-06-25 13:27:15
Think the entire argument is that anyone who's made any real attempt at doing sweaty content already has their V25 clears, R30 equipment, and a couple primes. So, new content that has no value to them is rightfully disappointing.
Of course, not every piece of content was designed for everyone. It's fine to be disappointed that it's not for you, but that doesn't mean it's bad design. Same goes for the people who are upset they need a group to do Odyssey.
 Bismarck.Nickeny
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By Bismarck.Nickeny 2025-06-25 13:30:40
I log in - I help people - I help friends - or Solo and help others when I see them in trouble
I log out
Limbus is fun
I didn't see a thread dedicated to new-new Limbus so here's one with some findings. I’ve continued to edit this post with new discoveries made throughout the thread.
For entrance and zone info, really the SE post is best:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/62862-June-10-2025-%28JST%29-Version-Update?p=667175&viewfull=1#post667175
Obtaining the Key Items / Units
Kill mobs to fill the bar in the upper left. Seems to take 6-15+ mobs per floor, this increases based on the chosen mob level and number of people in your party. You continue to get units as long as you want to sit there and keep killing and refill the bar, but at half the rate. Whether this is comparable to the units gained by continuing to move floors and finishing the event to get the chest bonus is up a function of your personal kill speed and group size.
Each Temporary KI looks like "Apollyon SE #1 data", and you get 1 per floor. You keep them until you open a chest and then they are all lost. You get a KI for filling up the bar at the top of the screen on each floor. I didn't count but I think it requires like 10 mobs per floor (this apparently varies by level choice). Once you get a KI, you should get to keep it even if you leave Limbus. You would lose any progress on any un-completed floors, but this is like 6-10 kills so no biggie.
You can enter any section / floor at any time. You don't need to go in any type of order or "climb" if you're missing one of the upper KIs from a run that got interrupted.
Once you choose a level (119-130), I think you need to keep that level choice until you open a chest. If you adjust it after getting some KIs, you might lose them. The NPC dialogue isn't too clear on this.
There were no direct drops from mobs, of any kind.
Mob Details
All the mobs seem to have pretty serious DT, probably 50% (confirm by Brixy as 50%, per Air Knife expected enspell dmg). But they aren't hard. They hit like 130s. AoE/Cleaving is extremely nerfed.
Pulling mobs is weird. Any initial spell cast before initial aggro / dynamic level adjustment may land, but will not remain on the mob. You will not see a message to reflect this.
If you pull with silence (while it's un-aggroed), it appears the silence instantly wears without any message, likely due to the dynamic-level adjustment which happens as soon as you aggro (credit to Moonlightagb for this theory, I think it's correct). Silencing twice is probably needed. This doesn't matter much in a party, but if you're solo and mob density is high this effect could be pretty annoying. Other examples later verified by others: If you pull with Immanence, the skill chain will not complete. If you pull with Dia, you can sleep right after.
Mob respawn is on the order of a few minutes but I was pretty lonely this morning. I had one floor with a couple groups and it felt faster, might be dynamic spawn rate.
Aside from the initial-aggro weirdness, everything can be debuffed and slept as expected. Sneak/invis work fine, but true aggro mobs remain like Imps and such.
Getting the goods
In order for the chest to open, you need to finish all of the zone, not just one section. So Apollyon zone is 18 KIs, Temenos zone should be 25 KIs. If the chest says "it won't open", you need more KIs. The chests are located at the exit of each "top floor" in each section. However, you can only open a chest once you have finished all the sections (NW,NE,SW,SE,etc).
After getting all KIs in Apollyon, each character had earned:
About 4000 units from killing mobs and climbing floors
3000 units from finding a shiny ??? on the ground and clicking it
3000 units (one character in the party got 5000 units, no idea why) directly from the chest
So each character of a 6-person party left a ~90 minute run with 10-12k units. EP was ~15k/hr, but this is ML50s fighting level 130s. Maybe it's better if you're lower.
My initial limit on Apollyon units was 30,000. After I opened the chest, that increased to 33,000. It looks to increase 3000 more with each chest open.
Apollyon Units are used to upgrade AF pieces to +4.
Temenos Units are used to upgrade relic pieces to +4.
The upgrade costs are:
Head: 20k units
Body: 30k units
Hands: 15k units
Legs: 25k units
Feet: 10k units
Once I got to 10k units, the furnace did allow me to trade a foot piece, though I didn't choose to complete the process. Trading any other slot did nothing.
I did get the title Apollyon Razer, which I think is just the same as the old title lol
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