Null Gear For Frazzle/Distract 3 Or...

now the question is Deflectaga VI enfeebling or dark

enhancing

I recognize that there are differences on these pages and fully admit it's not 100% consistent. Here's why I think they're different:

1.) Dia has light shot listed on it because Dia's primary purpose is to lower defense and it's used on like...95% of encounters in FFXI. People want to know how much it increases the DEF down because most of the nerds on this game obsess over increasing their physical damage and nearly-100% of the content in the game involves doing physical damage. Very few people are obsessed with capping their DOT, so increasing the Poison effect is...less important.

2.) Dia doesn't have a formula because there is no formula for its potency whatsoever. The only way Dia's potency is affected is by enfeebling magic effect (and light shot). You could argue the formula is on there (3+Enfeebling magic effect)

I think it's worthwhile to include the QD effect on all the pages where it could be relevant...but TBH most people aren't going to give a half a ***and the actual increase hasn't been tested for most of them so...it won't really be all that helpful. For Dia, SE gave us a chart with the values so...it seems a lot more relevant.

It's almost like each spell is different and if you wanted them to all consistently show the same information...

I think it's some sort of monster specific skillset.

I don't agree with the second half. I think there are some (enough) people who play this game in 2025, to care about the corner cases and every bizzare, niche thing you can do for fun or curiosity.

So, I think that every debuff that that can be improved by QD should be indicated as such. (I know there was a chart passed around from the OF, where SE indicated this). If we don't know the exact increase, it can just be described as "Unknown" until we can confirm at a later date. (This could be due to new testing methods, gear or content, etc).

My questions and comments are in the context of accuracy and landing Distract and Frazzle. I understand the need potency.

No, actually. This was the point the wizards were using to defend the fact that there is logical balance behind the layout of information behind every page in BG-Wiki. Some enfeebling page even adds duration, potency, QD, others don't. When I pointed out the inconsistencies, you guys started spinning around like hamsters on wheels.

There is no good explanation as to why this formula is not on Poison II page:

floor(floor((Base Potency × Saboteur) + {dStat Modifier}) × (Enfeebling Magic Effect+ Gear))

You can make the "BuTRz wORThy RDM, Two MUrBlIZ nEEd ReaD MUr" argument, because it seems like it gives you guys life meaning to be that extra edgy. But from a user experience standpoint, your argument is just stupid.

Have you guys fixed the wiki yet?

You have written pages of posts about a couple sentences worth of wiki edits.

Good idea. Gonna learn how to add information to BG-Wiki and do it myself!

It's not too hard. You log in, click Edit on the page you want to change, add your text to the existing text, and hit Preview. Tweak it until the formatting is right (Mediawiki formatting), and click Save/Submit.

Yeah, I wasn't expecting to go through several pages to learn it.

If you can post on FFXIAH, you can edit text on a wiki.

There...



Now, I am finally a wizard!




If there isn't anything wrong with this approach ill go edit all the other enfeeble pages.

I would advise against including the effect of Quick Draw on all of these spell pages.

I posted a couple of months ago about the devs confirming that Quick Draw has no effect on the second tier of Enfeebling Magic spells it applies to. The original dev post cited in the linked bug report above also states Quick Draw does not apply to all Enfeebling Magic effects, only Paralyze/Slow/Dia/Blind. Does anyone have/know of any testing that shows it actually affects Poison II? or even regular Poison? There is some verification work that needs to be done before adding an assumed effect to all of these pages.

Lastly, I think a more elegant way to clear up this confusion is instead of cluttering all of these spell pages with the potency formula, add a small blurb stating that this is the base potency before any other modifiers similar to the Distract III page and then use that blurb to hyperlink to the potency formula on the Enfeebling Magic page. Any spells that don't interact with Enfeebling Magic Effect+ gear like the rest (Dia) can be further explained on their respective pages.

Edit: Removed unaffected spell

Second edit: I just realized you added the Enfeebling magic effect gear table to the page too. In my opinion there is no reason to have that table plastered all over these individual spell pages.


No, it isn't better when there are more effective ways to convey that information without making the individual spell pages a mess of unnecessary tables and information that can be easily linked to. Please don't take this the wrong way, I do applaud you for taking the initiative and making changes.

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/108127-Information-Redundancy-and-the-Failures-of-Wikis

This was my opinion back when I was, /hairflip, a pretty major wiki editor.

My new opinion is that wikis should reflect the opinions of those who invest the time in editing them. If you like how the page looks and want to make the others consistent, you do you.

I agree with Godfry, having the info duplicated on pages (if it would update if changed on the main page) I would prefer that.

Learning more about MediaWiki formatting. I'm gonna create a template to streamline changes on other pages. This will allow people to edit what's common among these pages.

For example, Dia has this table:


While Dia III has this gear information:


I'm gonna try to solve it with the template idea to bring more consistency to situations like these.

Never edited Wiki before I've been doing some reading before I start playing with more advanced features.

The issue I see with your Dia Wand example is it doesn't apply to Dia III since the only job that can cast it is RDM and they can't equip the wand. Now a separate table with almost duplicate data needs to be created and monitored for any future updates.

Also Dia pages have duplicated tables across them.

If I understand you position: Spells that are enhanced by Quick Draw, should indicate as such. (Those spells should be listed on the Quick Draw page for posterity and completeness).

If a spell is not affected by Quick Draw, any reference to Quick Draw should be omitted.

I think this makes sense and has the added benefit of improving discoverability as well. I can make the change after business hours tommorow.

There is an inconsistency of how information is laid out, currently, that requires people to actually guess how these spells are affected. For example, it's perfectly fine for someone to see RDM gear in Dia III, not in Dia and II and assume that RDM gear doesn't affect Dia and II since FF11 has so many exception to rules and really poorly-misleading item description.

The current self-defeating argument is that, in order for you not to be overwhelmed in a specific spell page, with information that actually pertains to that spell, we are going to force you to go to another page, that 100x more overwhelming than the spell one, in order for you to actually have to scroll down and gather information yourself.

I'm thinking of a way to template common information so that it can be everywhere, but only need to be updated in one place.

That's not how templates or websites work. You'll get there soon though.

The three dia table "splattered" across three pages is now templated here. Updating it in one place will change it in all other places.

Where is your god now?

Does changing the template change all existing pages that used it? Doesn't updating the template just change newly created pages using the updated template?

I went to the three dia pages, removed the copy-pasted tables and added a template. So if you modify the template call to the page, it will affect the other three dia pages.

The reason why I decided to go for this approach is so that if people didn't like what I did, they can go to the template page and delete information from there. It will reduce our effort in the long run.

Btw, I knew that you could do this in Wiki, even without knowing anything about Wiki, because that's precisely how websites and software in general work.

Well.. don't assume.

All commercial and open source wikis I've used for work used templates as.. templates to create something new, not to embed information in a page.

Most wikis call that "child pages" or something similar. In any case, glad it works.

These are not the same thing, not in Wikis or software in general.

Templates are reusable content patterns that maintain consistency across multiple pages. They serve as blueprints that can be inserted into other pages, containing placeholders that get filled with specific content when the template is used. Templates help standardize formatting and structure across a wiki.

Child pages, on the other hand, are hierarchically organized pages that exist under a parent page. They create a nested structure that helps organize related content in a logical way. Child pages inherit certain properties from their parent pages but contain their own unique content.

You just gave me an absolutely amazing idea though! We can create a parent Dia page, and organize the Dias 1,2,3 as child pages.

Please add a third column that shows def down value with light shot applied. I am too lazy to do things like ((208/1024)+(28/1024))=(228/1024)=23%

Default values With light shot
Spell Hex Value Defense down Hex Value Def down
Dia 104/1024 10.16% 132/1024 13%
Diaga 104/1024 10.16% 132/1024 13%
Dia II 156/1024 15.23% 184/1024 18%
Dia III 208/1024 20.31% 228/1024 23%

Seems like it would be easier and quicker to just add another couple fields to the spell description template "Affected by Quick Draw Y/N" and "Effect of Enfeebling Magic+: "

EDIT:
I am strongly against the table that was added to the individual Dia pages that talk about all of the other spells in the family. It's totally unnecessary to talk about the effects of Dia or Dia II or Diaga on the Dia III page, and the same goes for the others. The only information the Dia III page needs is the DOT amount and defense reduction, and how each of those is affected by Quick Draw or Enfeebling Magic Effect+ gear.

On the Poison and Poison II pages, you can't just paste in a list of gear copied from elsewhere with no explanation. A better solution would be a single line explaining what Enfeebling Magic +1 does. Does it increase the DOT by 1? Does it increase the DOT by 1%? That's all you need to say. Everyone who plays the game can figure out what a +1 or a +1% does without having to list a dozen or more individual items.

I didn't add anything to the dia page. I just templated the information that was there, so it's easier for people to modify it.