Odyssey R25 Confirmed ATM Now Maybe 30?...

base x8 if cheesed and x 9 if win i thought?

I assumed it would be nurfed trying to use a v15 on v20.
Base RP for a kill they are getting is 704 and a amp they got 2,112. There are about to get a charged v20 T2 win so will see.

I don't think anyone tested lower charge values, but the simplest and most straightforward way to implement the system would have been to give the charges fixed bonuses based on V level (like +40% per additional average V level) and not involve any kind of scaling mechanic based on what you use it against.

This is SE, though, so it's not surprising if they decided to go with something more complicated than necessary.

Back in the day, like pre-Atonement3(?maybe?) adds were already data mined and I believe we had discussed one which was Henwen's Raaz, so maybe Guy was just more observant on the datamines than average?

It will take 12090rp to rp gear from r20 to r25.

Not only him. Mischief too :P

Did the full tier 1 group on V20. The add locked onto a DD and did negligible damage to them while the WHM cured the group without extra effort on the Umbral.

We killed the add on the first one we did and then ignored it after. It was easy enough in T1 to kill it and then the NM. I think we had about 4-5 min left still.

I wonder if the adds at t3/t4 are strong enough to kill BST or PUP before they can do the damage threshold for RP? It seems like that might have been added to eliminate pet cheesing, although it seems like it wouldn't be very effective if arthurs debuffs can still still stick.

If they wanted to eliminate pet cheesing or cheesing at all, they would simply fix amplifier to work based on RP you get, not max RP (You can take 5%HP on most jobs, not only PUP or BST, it's not really difficult).

Those adds where in dats from the very begining, so they planned them way before this cheesing started to be a thing.

Honestly I bet most of you will be vexed by what I'm about to say but I find this being extremely cheap and annoying game design.
My problem with this is that they applied it to every single monster.

Having some monsters that are based on Adds and the fact that players will have to adapt their strategies to deal with them is actually really cool, it creates variations etc.
The fact that they lazily applied this change to every single NM in the content is... I dunno, it feels very cheap and very bad to me.

I think it's a little to early to say. Different NMs might have different adds with different mechanics. It's like saying all ambuscades are the same, because they have adds. Adding adds (or more adds) is the common mechanic to increase difficulty in FFXI. Doesn't mean it must be the same strategy for all of the adds in Odyssey tho. For example I'm thinking if maybe Mboze's add could be used as TP battery to reduce TP on Mboze :)

And then you find out that the mini tree is also capable of using both timbeeer and canopierce, and is capable of wiping you out all by itself so you can't allow either one of them to build tp. Just wait... it'll happen.

No Simon is right. If they really took the time to add different things, mechanics and stuff to every fight (supposing everything is balanced and we don't have another mess like Mboze) it could potentially be very cool.

I have very little faith at this point that they had the time and ideas to carefully balance with different stuff each and every one of those fight and suspect they added something with the least effort possible (on their side) without thinking too much about the consequences in terms of game balance.
This would be exactely what I was talking about and it would be incredibly lazy, cheap and bad.

But hey, we can't tell yet of course. I'll be very, very, VERY glad to be proved wrong.



Taking as an example Ambuscade like Simon said, most fights have adds. But each fight is very different and in each time adds have a different role. It's cool.
I have no concern there, why? Because they did one fight at a time, one every month. They had plenty of time to do things bit by bit even with their low men-resources. It's perfectly viable for them and the results were what I would call satisfying.
But here we're talking about what, 17 different fights?
Did they TRULY have the time to carefully balance all of them and add different, cool things to all of them?
It could be very nice! But I'm somewhat skeptic they managed to do that...

Setup was listed in prior post, typical BRD / COR buffs for physical WS's, listed other WS's damage as a comparison. 4/10 for effort.

I'm not disagreeing. In fact, everything you two just said I can relate to. But this is the same mechanics as the NM's in Sheol B, and I see no reason to believe the devs did anything different here (we'll probably get the second add at vengence 25 btw). If you recall, in Sheol B every NM spawned two mini version of itself. The NM's all spawned adds of the same family as themselves, and the adds had all the family specific TP moves. The thing about the tier 3's is that they're unique families. Ongo is a Waktza, Ngai is a Rockfin, Mboze is a Yggdreant, Kalunga is a Gabbrath, etc etc etc. So there really isn't anything the devs can have them spawn except a smaller version of the boss itself. And if that IS the case, then they carry the exact same tp moves.

Protholithic puncture already requires scherzo to not die to, so it'll probably be just as deadly from a mini shark as Ngai himself. Marine mayhem is a simple one hit KO based on distance. Tidal Guillotine is a hp Percentage based KO. Timbeeer is an attack that's based on percentages. Glassy nova is simply an AoE full dispel, stinger volley inflicts zombie and incisive apotheosis inflict weakness. There are a ton of attacks these nms use that follow the trend where the mini versions using them will be just as nasty as if they came from the main NM itself because the danger they pose comes from a unique and powerful status effect. This will definitely make the nms a whole lot more challenging though. Killing these with adds is gonna be interesting.

Not a whole lot of reason to believe this, they could easily use crabs/pugils/etc for ngai(rockfin delve is all aquans), birds for ongo, and so on. I'm inclined to think you're right and the adds will have the same model and TP, though.

According to Ruaumoko, the add was summoned at 75%, which is long after you qualify for RP.

Nvm, I 100% shouldn't post in work :D

EDIT:


Maybe the same, but with limited TP moves, like no Tiiimbeeer hopefully XD

The .dats list:

Xevioso's Chapuli
Ngai's Cracklaw
Kalunga's Matamata
Ongo's Tulfaire
Mboze's Snapweed
Arebati's Raaz

Bumba's Chapuli
Bumba's Cracklaw
Bumba's Matamata
Bumba's Tulfaire
Bumba's Snapweed
Bumba's Raaz

There's two copies of each (the T1/T2s also have two copies of their adds).

I assume they don't respawn if killed? The hate mechanic seems to indicate we're "supposed" to kill them, did we have HP values for the other T1's at V10/15 in order to figure out what the growth is?

Also do folks here use the moblevel addon to tell them monsters actual levels?

Ok so looks like its not the same model and 2nd add will probably pop at V25 in future :)

Speculation time... Will V25 summon adds twice?

Hmm how many adds does it summon anyway, like one or two or a full horde of two dozen?

Well that suddenly makes the add mechanic somewhat less painful, but that cracklaw add on Ngai worrys me. Cracklaws are not a fun family to fight with a melee setup at all. That thing's gonna be freakin dangerous if not outright deadly. The only way to actually kill a cracklaw is by blowing it up with thunder magic. Maybe we'll have to adjust the standard setup to either monk or warrior and a red mage/club setup so that the red mage can nuke the cracklaw add down while still black haloing ngai itself. That'll be interesting to see.

Edit: Actually I just realized the list is the same families as all the tier 2 nm's. There's quite a few problematic adds in that list. The raaz isn't exactly something you want spawning with a ranger burn and grasshoppers are just inherently dangerous. I wonder if they'll have the same damage resistances are their tier 2 counterparts, because if they do that's gonna hurt. Kalunga requires a slashing setup but the matamata is weak to blunt, and arrebtai is a piercing nm but the raaaz is also a blunt nm. Mixing up the damage types you have to bring into these fights to deal with the adds is gonna add a whole new layer of complexity if they do indeed carry the same damage resistances as the tier 2 variants.

Interested in seeing if Bumba summons a random single pet at V20 or a combination...

I believe it's one add at 75%, at least for A1. A2 and A3 probably follows the same rule. Bumba will probably also summon one add, but randomly chosen from all 6 families used for A3 (same as it has random Fetter mechanic of one the A3).

At V25 they will probably spawn 2 adds at once or maybe one at 75% and 2nd at 50%.

T2 is the same, one add at 75%. It seems on T2 they are a bit more resistant to bind too (Gigelorum one at least). Nothing too difficult, but I guess it will be even more resistant on T3 and T4.

I guess just binding them or leaving them to roam the area hitting random targets without bothering is not the expected thing to do. Certainly won't be on v25 with 2 of them.

Did you try sleeping them? I know actual U Bnai is sleepable on V15 without Stymie.

Matamata are in general resist ice, so maybe thats why it would resist bind.