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The Odyssey - || Strategy and Discussion ||
By Vaerix 2022-12-05 12:27:29
Linear, so same but slightly slower. Higher cost matched by higher RP 1:1
+300 +330 +360 +390 +420 Give or take
Since we've never had any r30 items in game, I wonder if they'll do like master levels and artificially increase the rp scaling/costs from 25-30. 1-25 is just over 25k total rp, would be hilarious to have to get another 30-40k to hit 30.
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2022-12-05 12:29:09
They should. You'd (all) still do it. Make it 100k, why not.
(They won't)
By Vaerix 2022-12-05 12:31:44
They should. You'd (all) still do it. Make it 100k, why not.
(They won't)
Personally was thinking they'd make 4th line augs be a single improvement instead of r25-30, just r25 turn in with requisite rp and receive 4th line... Say for... 50k/piece... Lol
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By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2022-12-05 12:44:21
v25 will reward a new currency called "Accomplishment Points" that only improve the new Augment, preventing spamming of lower tiers to RP it up.
By Taint 2022-12-05 13:25:37
Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »v25 will reward a new currency called "Accomplishment Points" that only improve the new Augment, preventing spamming of lower tiers to RP it up.
Maybe I bet a lot of people are sitting on 100k Bumba RP and 2mil Segments waiting for the update.
Carbuncle.Maletaru
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2022-12-05 13:37:46
Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »v25 will reward a new currency called "Accomplishment Points" that only improve the new Augment, preventing spamming of lower tiers to RP it up.
Maybe I bet a lot of people are sitting on 100k Bumba RP and 2mil Segments waiting for the update.
I understand the sentiment but RP caps at 50k.
Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2022-12-05 13:49:20
Linear, so same but slightly slower. Higher cost matched by higher RP 1:1
+300 +330 +360 +390 +420 Give or take
Since we've never had any r30 items in game, I wonder if they'll do like master levels and artificially increase the rp scaling/costs from 25-30. 1-25 is just over 25k total rp, would be hilarious to have to get another 30-40k to hit 30. Thats probably why the latest chapter for TVR wasnt finished. SE allots only 3 hours per week to the FFXI dev's, and upon realization that R30 doesnt exist, they burnt all the allocated hours into implementing R30.
Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-12-05 14:07:12
It doesn't matter how much RP it costs to cap, the players will do it. People complain about the ML grind (while begrudgingly doing it). Hell, if they could take a time machine and visit when they created Trial of the Magians, I bet this current state of SE would have loved to have you kill 100,000 soulflayers or 500 pandemonium wardens for 5 more STR. People used to fish for 10,000 Moat carps or whatever it was back then. All they had to do was add a percentage of a stat to literally any gear in the game and people would grind trials for it. They had the perfect formula for grind system and they just abandoned it. Imagine if they did ilvl ToM weapons with TP bonus/WSD/ Occ. 2-4. Grind Goldmine right there.
It took them long enough, but RP grind on Odyssey gear is basically just another form of ToM. Say what yall want about Odyssey; after being burned out from grinding RP and boss/segs for a good year straight, and then taking a 6-month break, I'm officially ready for le'grind part duece.
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Bahamut.Skald
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By Bahamut.Skald 2022-12-05 15:20:24
Its not that easy. Before mobs actually stop moving half of them are dead sometimes. Sometimes its big mobs with big hitboxes and its hard to rotate around them. Spread like on the picture is also very optimal and rarely happens in game. It's usually much more mobs on some side and sometime there is none on one side. Finally some jobs will kill much faster and will need to swap to monster further away anyway.
I agree though, that it's the best approach to try to rotate to face away only mobs close to you.
For sure, image is an example, there are a lot of factors making it difficult to always get favorable auto targets but the idea is there. Don't face the entire group of mobs and as much as possible keep your line of sights away from one another.
In the end it's not like segments are hard or runs in a solid group can't be cleared even without effort to optimize targeting strategies but for the love of Altana and the sake of efficiency, pls, get off my mob and lrn2strafe.
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Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2022-12-05 16:53:50
It doesn't matter how much RP it costs to cap, the players will do it. People complain about the ML grind (while begrudgingly doing it). Hell, if they could take a time machine and visit when they created Trial of the Magians, I bet this current state of SE would have loved to have you kill 100,000 soulflayers or 500 pandemonium wardens for 5 more STR. People used to fish for 10,000 Moat carps or whatever it was back then. All they had to do was add a percentage of a stat to literally any gear in the game and people would grind trials for it. They had the perfect formula for grind system and they just abandoned it. Imagine if they did ilvl ToM weapons with TP bonus/WSD/ Occ. 2-4. Grind Goldmine right there.
It took them long enough, but RP grind on Odyssey gear is basically just another form of ToM. Say what yall want about Odyssey; after being burned out from grinding RP and boss/segs for a good year straight, and then taking a 6-month break, I'm officially ready for le'grind part duece.
Honestly the boss fights would be pretty fun... if we had subjobs. As it stands they are just annoying as hell, especially for jobs that relied heavily on their subs to compliment their role.
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Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2022-12-05 17:10:27
Aside from the steep/annoying requirements for entry, I think the Odyssey boss are lotsa fun* regardless of lack of SJ, imho.
I mean I won't deny how the lack of subjob can be a real pain, for some jobs way more than others.
But in my book it annoys me more on an ideological level than a practical one.
Also I'm not a super fan of the adds added on V20 and V25.
It would've been cool if it was just for some NMs, but the fact that they did the same exact thing (adding 1-2 adds) copy/paste for every single boss was quite anticlimactic, for me.
*
except you, Mboze. You don't belong with the rest of the cool guys >_>'''
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By Serjero 2022-12-05 22:51:27
Honestly the boss fights would be pretty fun... if we had subjobs. As it stands they are just annoying as hell, especially for jobs that relied heavily on their subs to compliment their role.
Allowing subjobs means the fights would have to have been completely overtuned and much more BS than they are now. The stats and acc/atk requirements for the fights (at least through V20) have been pretty lax compared to stuff like Reisenjima HELMs or W3 NMs.
They also probably didn't know how busted some of the new SJ abilities and traits would be when bumping up MLs but if we got SJ access with the fights as they currently are they'd be complete and total jokes.
I think thus far subjob restriction has made the fights more interesting and challenging in ways beyond just upping the bosses raw output/defense. Without subjobs you are locked into using your available buffs as a resource. Things like Dirge so DDs don't pull hate become a non issue if you have access to jumps from /DRG. MNK becomes an unkillable machine against Ngai from subbing RUN. COR and BRD almost just straight double the damage output on Xevi from being able to sub DNC while also offering incidental healing through waltz. God forbid SE doesn't want all 6 people subbing DRK for Absorb-TP strats. The way Gaol is setup is to lock you out of resources and make you figure out the best way to deal with it.
Only job that really suffers dramatically is GEO so I guess if you are relegated to be your groups bubble boy I can understand the frustration of only being able to do one thing.
It's fundamentally a different kind of challenge and one that works with the rest of the restrictions in line with what SE envisioned with Gaol (what's the point of MJ restrictions of one use if everyone can just sub a job anyways, if they try to restrict the SJ thing too it just becomes even more convoluted). Now I will say if they never use it again it wouldn't be soon enough since I think we've seen the upper extent of how it changes fights and jobs. Feels like an okay one and done mechanic. It at least certainly feels better than the WS wall in Sortie Basement or some of the other hamfisted mechanics they have a penchant to use these days.
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By Afania 2022-12-06 00:26:48
Allowing subjobs means the fights would have to have been completely overtuned and much more BS than they are now. The stats and acc/atk requirements for the fights (at least through V20) have been pretty lax compared to stuff like Reisenjima HELMs or W3 NMs.
I can understand the logic behind no subjob=less fun because the players really get less choices to deal with a problem.
For example, if DD has hate problem? With subjob players can choose to /DRG or use dirge. Now the option is locked to dirge only. Or if you need box step? You can use DNC main for more box step OR cor BRD sub DNC for a gimped one. Now it's locked to DNC main only.
I think thus far subjob restriction has made the fights more interesting
It's more interesting for you because it forces you out of meta so it feels different, not because it offers more depth or meaningful choices to deal with a challenge.
FFXI never needed subjob lock to be challenging in the past. See Neo Nyzul, legion, delve when it was out, aeonic in 2015, MT in 2017.
MNK becomes an unkillable machine against Ngai from subbing RUN.
It's not tough to implement some kind of mechanics that can't be facerolled with /run.
God forbid SE doesn't want all 6 people subbing DRK for Absorb-TP strats
But people still use absorb TP strat in Odyssey though. They just use different jobs that can absorb TP on main and lock on to it instead of any job.
It's an okay one if it's one content out of many for a bit more variety, probably.
But it's like the main content that's meant to be grinded for a long time, and it doesn't feel good to come up with an idea to solve a mechanics or gained a new ability with ML, only to be told that we can't use it because the game set a special rule for this content, with nowhere else to play with different builds.
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Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-12-06 02:21:02
Quote: For example, if DD has hate problem? With subjob players can choose to /DRG or use dirge. Now the option is locked to dirge only.
There is more than one way to deal with hate in the game, not sure why you're zeroing in on one ability via support job.
Carbuncle has pacifying ruby, which is a strategy our group used in Matamata in consecutive boss runs. Caper from SCH can also be used to control hate once per fight, something I've also seen used in groups. SCH also has Minuo, and LolNinja has Yain and Innin when striking from behind. BST has access to Snarl if it somehow manages to take hate. You mentioned DRG which can eliminate it's own hate, but DRG main can also eliminate a party member's hate via SP1 and positioning ( super jump removes hate from closest party member behind DRG during ability). Even THF can aid in controlling hate to some degree. RNG has camouflage and Decoy Shot. And then there's also the option for all jobs to use gear to fill the void of no high/super jump.
I didn't like the support job removal at first because it felt forced, but it did introduce players to more varied setups using individual jobs strengths. Tp denial was a thing with mew, but it came back fresh with BST, which is something that had not been used very much at all prior to Odyssey. Prior to that, you had to rely on having additional bodies in range and rampart to have a good chance at beating Mboze. It was shortly replaced in favor of the former tp denial strategy, but it was still viable as an additional option.
Gaol was probably their way of helping people to focus on job strengths, aligning with their plans for Master Levels, but they wanted each job to be used for the content in some way. If anything, Gaol just exposed how badly designed some jobs were without their support jobs (Ninja, Geomancer). Even then, you could still use GEO for every boss, and I guess Ninja could nuke on one or two and DPS on others (it is a high subtle *** after all). They should have used Gaol as a springboard to address jobs that struggled badly without their sub. For instance, PLD loses a lot without it's sub, whereas RUN is sufficient tool-Wise. That's where I think they missed the most with Odyssey Gaol, not adjusting jobs afterwards
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By Serjero 2022-12-06 03:09:32
Agreed 100% Buukki. Focusing on a jobs utility and strengths made for much more interesting content and outside the box thinking. In their own way each fight opened the door to a lot of jobs to be used in viable and creative ways.
As far as job adjustments go GEO and NIN definitely gutted of a lot of meaningful utility with loss of SJ. As for PLD never really had hate issues and I've used PLD for Kalunga and Arebati on both V15 and V20 clears with hate rarely ever being an actual issue but Majesty Cures being an important utility.
Odyssey has just felt like this entire puzzle where you gotta look at all the jobs and what pieces they bring to the table to help solve it. But at the same time it's not like every fight has this rigid setup that you can only use to win (Ongo being the biggest exception). Killed Kalunga with all various forms of slashing DDs, have done Xevioso with DNC SMN THF DRG SAM RDM as the 6th member. Have done Ngai with SMN WAR GEO RDM as the 6th job. Each of these jobs changed the fight drastically as somethings were made easier, others harder. Did Rampart strat on V15 Mboze, and BST TP denial on V20. Arebati have only ever done RNG strat but that's still a fun change of pace especially after hover shot got added.
But for 22 jobs in the game throughout all of my time in Ody I think I've succeeded in V15/V20 fights with all 22 of them being used where the jobs had a specific and purposeful role that felt like it mattered that they were there for what they brought to the table but if SJs were allowed that list would be less than 12.
By Vaerix 2022-12-06 03:12:23
Quote: For example, if DD has hate problem? With subjob players can choose to /DRG or use dirge. Now the option is locked to dirge only.
There is more than one way to deal with hate in the game, not sure why you're zeroing in on one ability via support job.
Carbuncle has pacifying ruby, which is a strategy our group used in Matamata in consecutive boss runs. Caper from SCH can also be used to control hate once per fight, something I've also seen used in groups. SCH also has Minuo, and LolNinja has Yain and Innin when striking from behind. BST has access to Snarl if it somehow manages to take hate. You mentioned DRG which can eliminate it's own hate, but DRG main can also eliminate a party member's hate via SP1 and positioning ( super jump removes hate from closest party member behind DRG during ability). Even THF can aid in controlling hate to some degree. RNG has camouflage and Decoy Shot. And then there's also the option for all jobs to use gear to fill the void of no high/super jump.
I didn't like the support job removal at first because it felt forced, but it did introduce players to more varied setups using individual jobs strengths. Tp denial was a thing with mew, but it came back fresh with BST, which is something that had not been used very much at all prior to Odyssey. Prior to that, you had to rely on having additional bodies in range and rampart to have a good chance at beating Mboze. It was shortly replaced in favor of the former tp denial strategy, but it was still viable as an additional option.
Gaol was probably their way of helping people to focus on job strengths, aligning with their plans for Master Levels, but they wanted each job to be used for the content in some way. If anything, Gaol just exposed how badly designed some jobs were without their support jobs (Ninja, Geomancer). Even then, you could still use GEO for every boss, and I guess Ninja could nuke on one or two and DPS on others (it is a high subtle *** after all). They should have used Gaol as a springboard to address jobs that struggled badly without their sub. For instance, PLD loses a lot without it's sub, whereas RUN is sufficient tool-Wise. That's where I think they missed the most with Odyssey Gaol, not adjusting jobs afterwards
I think that odyssey in general made people use tools they haven't in a long time, like rng using shadowbind. I think that lacking subjob increased the difficulty because people lost crutches they've been favoring for years, non-apoc drk really feels it when last resort is on cool down vs a minor degrade for hasso users and no change for hasso+apoc.
Also it kinda shows why this content should never ever see subjobs. Right now if you level a decent comp it can succeed and do well in odyssey. Now let all 6 of those players sub the same job (drg, nin, run) the encounters change entirely, physical threats to backline players can waste an action to throw up shadows, magic threats are by and large a single element, let's just let everyone reduce it by 30% themselves(by the way, permanently between valiance and vallation), and like afania brought up "enmity control" why waste a song, or bring sch to heal if you can just reset your own enmity and have a whm healer for cureskin.
By SimonSes 2022-12-06 03:14:23
It's more interesting for you because it forces you out of meta so it feels different, not because it offers more depth or meaningful choices to deal with a challenge
Who cares about meaningful depth, that is only there in theory. People will only use the easiest and most cheese way to grind. If they wouldn't force you to be creative, then almost none would be creative. We have evidence of that from 20 years of this game existence. Off meta setups were used only when it was necessary. Ib4 you will say, that without locked sub job you could still use same creative strategy as without sub job. That is true, but it would work only if you are static/pug leader or you go with friends. SE wanted to create job diversity at fundamental level for Odyssey, not only because you can't take same job again, but also because some key abilities are hidden for main job, because you cant sub it. So you can say whatever you want about theoretical depth being limited by lack of sub jobs, but the truth is, if you give FFXI community all the options available with limitless possibilities as deep as ocean, people will dry it out to toddlers pool size and choose single best working setup and don't want to hear about using anything else, so I 100% agree with SE reasoning here.
By Afania 2022-12-06 03:19:10
I didn't like the support job removal at first because it felt forced, but it did introduce players to more varied setups using individual jobs strengths. Tp denial was a thing with mew, but it came back fresh with BST
But it doesn't. PT denial strat was already available to BST without SJ lock, so the variety always exists. People just choose SMN over BST either because 1) it's more efficient or 2) more people has SMN - I don't research enough to know the exact reason but I think it has to be one of them.
Locking SJ only blocks the playerbase from using the most preferred choice so they have to use the 2nd best choice. It doesn't add more choice than what's already available.
If the best choice is strongly favored then the better solution has always been buffing the 2nd and 3rd best choice so they are more equal. So choosing the 2nd or 3rd choice isn't a huge loss and become the viable alternative.
but they wanted each job to be used for the content in some way.
It's more fun to choose to use certain job in a content because its ability is useful in such situations, less fun because some of the options are being taken away so we are forced to use different options.
If a game presents me a puzzle to solve, I prefer to come up with my own solutions from a wider variety of, I don't enjoy solving a problem with limited choice because the game already eliminated some of the options available.
I guess the real problem here is that in MMO space, once a strat is being discovered by the top end community, everyone else will copy that same strat and turn it into "meta". Despite other viable/competitive strats are available they are all ignored, so it feels less varied than it really is.
Unfortunately for people that enjoys theorycraft and experiment, who doesn't care about "meta", it's probably going to be less interesting if they want to try something, but can't.
Edit: @Baniak I already know and agreed about this MMO problem :p. I was only explaining why some people aren't happy with SJ lock and the fact that SJ lock actually doesn't create more variety. It only changed meta using a forced way.
By SimonSes 2022-12-06 03:58:23
1) it's more efficient or 2) more people has SMN - I don't research enough to know the exact reason but I think it has to be one of them.
Its because Mewing works from SJ as good as from main job.
More people have SMN or /smn exactly because BST was never needed if SMN was taking double duty as Conduit machine. Again your options and depth is only theoretical. FFXI players (and Im talking about most players, shouts and pugs, not few off meta parties you can do as pug leader using mostly your friends or authority) will only look for diversity when it's forced on them.
It's more fun to choose to use certain job in a content because its ability is useful in such situations, less fun because some of the options are being taken away so we are forced to use different options.
No it's not. It's your Utopia. Regular player will never be able to join pugs on non meta jobs, unless you make non meta choice part of meta or at least a solid and common alternative. You can't expect people who want to play BST or PUP to always make own PUGs and try to convince people around them, that some alternate strategy using their jobs is viable. Just forcing those jobs to be a part of meta for at least one event is very good. People can at least understand how some previously off meta jobs work and what are their strength.
In a perfect world, with all jobs being perfectly balanced and all players having access to all of them etc. you could preach limitless options being better solution for higher diversity, but we are not in perfect world.
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By Afania 2022-12-06 07:07:55
BST was never needed if SMN was taking double duty as Conduit machine.
Isn't conduit nerfed post 2018? So even if SJ is available Odyssey I don't think SMN has way more advantage in mboze fight.
It should be /SMN being nerfed in this case. An offensive JA really shouldn't land as sub in the highest content if every other offensive spells suffer from resists. The problem here is SJ being way too effective, not the SJ system itself.
No it's not. It's your Utopia. Regular player will never be able to join pugs on non meta jobs, unless you make non meta choice part of meta or at least a solid and common alternative. You can't expect people who want to play BST or PUP to always make own PUGs and try to convince people around them, that some alternate strategy using their jobs is viable. Just forcing those jobs to be a part of meta for at least one event is very good. People can at least understand how some previously off meta jobs work and what are their strength.
In a perfect world, with all jobs being perfectly balanced and all players having access to all of them etc. you could preach limitless options being better solution for higher diversity, but we are not in perfect world.
=.= Man.....you are rewriting the exact same thing that I said and inflated into 2 long paragraphs....
I guess the real problem here is that in MMO space, once a strat is being discovered by the top end community, everyone else will copy that same strat and turn it into "meta". Despite other viable/competitive strats are available they are all ignored, so it feels less varied than it really is.
I even tagged your name in the end and repeated the same point again so you wouldn't miss my point, and somehow you still missed it...
Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-12-06 07:56:13
It's more fun to choose to use certain job in a content because its ability is useful in such situations, less fun because some of the options are being taken away so we are forced to use different options.
If a game presents me a puzzle to solve, I prefer to come up with my own solutions from a wider variety of, I don't enjoy solving a problem with limited choice because the game already eliminated some of the options available.
This sounds like a personal preference of yours, because I actually think it's quite fun and engaging when fights are designed in a way that challenges a player to come up with a different approach instead of what has always been done. But anyways, mostly every single fight in the game has some limitation or penalty imposed on it for doing the wrong thing (or strongly discourages you from doing something), so the game already limits your pool of possible solutions for clearing it in some way. It's simply more pronounced now because the event literally tells you up front we are taking this option away. It would be no different if a monster countered your strategy with some other annoying TP move, you would still be forced away from using a particular strategy or method.
Using your puzzle analogy and applying it to something recent like Sorte, look at the way the bosses have been designed. There are some that you can't (shouldn't) burst helix on, because it will transfer the debuffs and kill your tank. There is a mechanic that discourages repeated WS abuse, because if it wasn't there, people would just abuse repeat WS like Savage Blade. One boss responds harshly if it receives water damage. H boss particularly increases reduces his damage taken if you DONT proc him within in certain period of time. In other content like Omen, Thinker uses Pain Sync, which discourages or limits you from how you fight the boss. Some of the bosses in Omen also heal from skillchain damage or while readying a tp move. Bumba responds unfavorably to being healed the wrong element, which punishes players who repeat this mechanic too hard. Is it less fun because those options are taken away or you are forced to respond to the battle conditions differently?
In all of these cases, players have to find other ways around that impediment instead, but just because you're limited in what you can and cannot do, that doesn't necessarily make it fun or not fun. The fun part comes in completing the challenge regardless of whatever the roadblock is, not in choosing what to do about it. Because players nowadays are only going to pick the top/most successful option and ignore all others. It's like a road that you travel on every day to work. If suddenly that road becomes unavailable, you still have to get to work, just find another route. Support Job restriction in Odyssey, while feeling forced and limiting, doesn't necessarily make it less fun, it should motivate people to find the best of their jobs and make the best use of it.
By SimonSes 2022-12-06 08:17:01
It's more fun to choose to use certain job in a content because its ability is useful in such situations, less fun because some of the options are being taken away so we are forced to use different options.
If a game presents me a puzzle to solve, I prefer to come up with my own solutions from a wider variety of, I don't enjoy solving a problem with limited choice because the game already eliminated some of the options available.
This sounds like a personal preference of yours, because I actually think it's quite fun and engaging when fights are designed in a way that challenges a player to come up with a different approach instead of what has always been done. But anyways, mostly every single fight in the game has some limitation or penalty imposed on it for doing the wrong thing (or strongly discourages you from doing something), so the game already limits your pool of possible solutions for clearing it in some way. It's simply more pronounced now because the event literally tells you up front we are taking this option away. It would be no different if a monster countered your strategy with some other annoying TP move, you would still be forced away from using a particular strategy or method.
Using your puzzle analogy and applying it to something recent like Sorte, look at the way the bosses have been designed. There are some that you can't (shouldn't) burst helix on, because it will transfer the debuffs and kill your tank. There is a mechanic that discourages repeated WS abuse, because if it wasn't there, people would just abuse repeat WS like Savage Blade. One boss responds harshly if it receives water damage. H boss particularly increases reduces his damage taken if you DONT proc him within in certain period of time. In other content like Omen, Thinker uses Pain Sync, which discourages or limits you from how you fight the boss. Some of the bosses in Omen also heal from skillchain damage or while readying a tp move. Bumba responds unfavorably to being healed the wrong element, which punishes players who repeat this mechanic too hard. Is it less fun because those options are taken away or you are forced to respond to the battle conditions differently?
In all of these cases, players have to find other ways around that impediment instead, but just because you're limited in what you can and cannot do, that doesn't necessarily make it fun or not fun. The fun part comes in completing the challenge regardless of whatever the roadblock is, not in choosing what to do about it. Because players nowadays are only going to pick the top/most successful option and ignore all others. It's like a road that you travel on every day to work. If suddenly that road becomes unavailable, you still have to get to work, just find another route. Support Job restriction in Odyssey, while feeling forced and limiting, doesn't necessarily make it less fun, it should motivate people to find the best of their jobs and make the best use of it.
On top of that it's WAY easier to implement limited options to force diversity, than to implement benefits for certain approaches that will encourage diversity (that would be Afania's ideal solution afaik). It requires much more development and planning to predict all the possibilities with everything being available and design significant bonuses, especially when we are limited by various cap numbers. With limited resources it's pretty obvious SE would rather choose to put limits on us and polish and balance scenarios we are left with.
Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2022-12-06 08:22:32
Yeah Odyssea fights are not "challenging", except maybe Ongo and that's really just a communication / coordination challenge. You absolutely do not use jobs in "new and interesting ways", you go with a specific template for each clear and it's the exact same jobs over and over again with the DD changing. They are BS not because stats or moves, but because without a SJ we are forced to approach each fight in the same way.
The only situation where it gets "unique" is triple NM RP farming, and that's due to the single use job lockout, which I 100% support. Having to fight the 2nd and third boss without access to BRD/GEO/WHM/COR is what makes people look to stuff like BLU for healing and SMN for haste buffs.
People are just afraid their achievements will be "cheapened" if more people were allowed to climb the same mountain.
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Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2022-12-06 08:31:17
People are just afraid their achievements will be "cheapened" if more people were allowed to climb the same mountain. Which in all honesty is a valid concern, if that were to happen soon after.
But here we're talking about such a long time since the release and since those achievements were obtained? Do we really care that much if someone has it easier to obtain what we struggled for 1+ years ago?
Maybe I'm the strange one, but given a large enough window of time I don't really care that much honestly.
Quite the other way around, I was advocating for that to happen to bring into Odyssey more people who simply ignored the content so far, for whatever reason.
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Asura.Saevel
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Game: FFXI
Posts: 9910
By Asura.Saevel 2022-12-06 08:45:07
People are just afraid their achievements will be "cheapened" if more people were allowed to climb the same mountain. Which in all honesty is a valid concern, if that were to happen soon after.
But here we're talking about such a long time since the release and since those achievements were obtained? Do we really care that much if someone has it easier to obtain what we struggled for 1+ years ago?
Maybe I'm the strange one, but given a large enough window of time I don't really care that much honestly.
Quite the other way around, I was advocating for that to happen to bring into Odyssey more people who simply ignored the content so far, for whatever reason.
It never is, in the grand scheme of things. It's a common theme in MMO's without PvP content, once a player gets to a point many immediately want to block other players from reaching that same point. Without a ranking system, leader boards or other ways to show off, they are limited to using gear access instead. Look how crazy people were about the FFXIAH points system, until it broke that is.
Gets a bit into Bartle's but basically if competitive players can't find a way to compete they end up creating one instead. And that kind of zero sum competition is toxic to a cooperative PvE multiplayer environment.
I will always be for greater accessibility, more play options and a wider set of successful strategies. Basically I always want less battle limitations not more. If that means some folks can get stuff "easier" then me, no problem cause I'm not competing with them in the first place.
By Afania 2022-12-06 09:15:26
because I actually think it's quite fun and engaging when fights are designed in a way that challenges a player to come up with a different approach instead of what has always been done.
But FFXI always challenge player that come up with different approach with SJ available though. It never needed to lock SJ to force different playstyle.
Look at aeonic NM in 2016-2017, people mewed and SATAed them, nuked them, melee them, PUP tank them, shoot them, SMN burned them....Of course out of the above strat SMN burn is the most OP one and replaced the remaining strat as meta after it was discovered. But that's balancing problem, not SJ problem.
So I just don't see how having SJ available somehow make the player choice narrower. In most cases it's job balancing narrow down the choices, not SJ availability.
I meant it's one thing to say locking SJ is an easy way to make the fight feel different somehow(which I agree). It's another to say SJ system is the reason behind "meta" in MMO. It was never the case.
Quote: Is it less fun because those options are taken away or you are forced to respond to the battle conditions differently?
Boss mechanics are the puzzle itself, not the puzzle pieces that I can use to solve the puzzle.
Using one of your example if there is a boss that prevents WS spam. My first reaction would be "time to build a DPS focused build with zero WS". I would start brainstorming the ideal DPS build. Get a karambit, build a martial art/dps tp set, and debate between the ideal SJ: Should I sub MNK for this or a different SJ to maximize my DPS focused build? What about /DNC for haste samba + steps, does it beat /MNK? This kind of debate can probably worth 3 pages of discussion on ffxiah lol.
Except with SJ locked the last part of the decision making process and discussion is completely gone. It stops after "get Karambit and build a martial art set". Then there is nothing more to discuss nor brainstorm when it comes to build optimization.
By SimonSes 2022-12-06 10:05:33
Yeah Odyssea fights are not "challenging", except maybe Ongo and that's really just a communication / coordination challenge. You absolutely do not use jobs in "new and interesting ways", you go with a specific template for each clear and it's the exact same jobs over and over again with the DD changing. They are BS not because stats or moves, but because without a SJ we are forced to approach each fight in the same way.
The only situation where it gets "unique" is triple NM RP farming, and that's due to the single use job lockout, which I 100% support. Having to fight the 2nd and third boss without access to BRD/GEO/WHM/COR is what makes people look to stuff like BLU for healing and SMN for haste buffs.
People are just afraid their achievements will be "cheapened" if more people were allowed to climb the same mountain.
DD changing is itself a pretty great thing already, instead of 3x WAR with Naegling for everything. Its not about playing various jobs in new way, its about playing various jobs at all and acknowledge and use their advantages. Fights might be similar, but its completely different experience to ranged attack Arebati and play around hover shot, shadowbind and balance enmity to ignore TP moves, than melee attack Kalunga and playing around positioning, dealing with various TP moves and proccing !! Also beside Ongo, Mboze is also completely different fight.
[+]
Asura.Hya
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 312
By Asura.Hya 2022-12-06 10:56:09
You absolutely do not use jobs in "new and interesting ways", you go with a specific template for each clear and it's the exact same jobs over and over again with the DD changing. Just because you may have done the content with cookie cutter copy/pasted setups does not mean that other groups didn't use different jobs in new and interesting ways. There are multiple setups and strategies to clear most of the Gaol fights. I will grant you that these have become more strict with V20 and may become even more so with V25. But the V15 era allowed for a huge amount of variability in setups to clear fights. Before Gaol, when was the last time you brought THF as a tank/DD and not just TH for Ou/Dynamis? Or brought BST to anything at all that wasn't botting exp to RMT? Or used NIN to magic burst from the back line?
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2022-12-06 11:04:31
He can't see me say this so he'll tell you he invented all those strategies but doesn't use them cause after all the workshopping he settled on the one he found fastest.
The most creative and unique not like the other girls player ever. Would never dare resort to what you think is best.
By Serjero 2022-12-06 12:11:56
I will always be for greater accessibility, more play options and a wider set of successful strategies. Basically I always want less battle limitations not more. If that means some folks can get stuff "easier" then me, no problem cause I'm not competing with them in the first place.
What this really means is if you can't just spam Savage Blade w/ a MS WAR and kill the thing in 1:30 or less then GTFO.
Players (Well NA and EU at least) will only use the path of least resistance and most familiar strats unless Naegling is pried out of their cold dead hands. The JPs on Odin are the people who always are coming out with some crazy off the wall kind of stuff and nobody ever goes, hey, I think I'll try that, that looked sweet. They just watch w/e Xolla or Kaggra upload and go wow those JPs sure are crazy but I'mma just Savage the hell out of this Dargon.
Well I guess the exception being Sortie and I think the original BST/BLU TP denial strat on Mboze. You have people watching how they beat Amimon and just adding it as the next testament for strategies and nobodies gonna stray too far from that path for a very long time.
Most people don't want to be creative, most people just want to read the strategy, set up their auto-buffs and auto-ws and then receive easy clears while pretending they were born and raised on 1337 st. If the fight requires any more thought than that it's too hard and oppressive. If there's any amount of work or grind to doing content it doesn't work with a casual play-style. If people can't just play their one mid at best DD job content isn't inclusive enough.
Gaol so far has been fine (not amazing or great but also not terrible), V25s could change that and SE might have to take corrective action. But don't pretend that V20s are this monolith of difficulty preventing people from their shiny blue R25 augments. Groups that wanted to clear V20s cleared V20s, some were done in like the matter of a couple weeks to a month, others took 3-6 months, others just finally finished their last clears after chipping away at it for a year and getting that last little push they needed from MLs or Empy +3 (literally I think another NA group on Odin just got Bumba V20 access in the last 2-3 weeks).
Yes the SJ lockout isn't a fun or interesting mechanic for everyone, but neither is random Aura effect, nor are just slapping adds into every fight. But it's what we got and what we have to make do with.
Hmmm...
Initial Speculations:
Looks like they took components of Walk of Echoes (setting), and Elemental Circles and brought it together.
They must of learned new ideas through the Lilith HTBF and how they can play with those elemental fetters to create unique battlefield environment and apply further stress with them..
Instead of Abyssea, this may be a Walk of Echoes 3.0? Anything iLvl 140+ .. We are ready!
Keep this thread clean, hoping to post critical details and discuss strategies.. Eventually I will create a Node on this with full details.. We can then update BG-Wiki with information that we gather..
Those of you who play on Nasomi.. Please don't post on here, you have a Fafnir to camp.. so get back to work.. This is isn't Bubbly Bernie version 3.0. He will be OG 1.0 forever on Nasomi.. ^_^
Sorry about the delay on updating this as I have been slammed with a lot of work since COVID-19 defense ramp up procedures at my hospital facility.
I have barely had time to update and barely any time to explore this content myself. I appreciate everyone's work so far. I will update this OP Thread with some resources and information that people have found across all servers including videos and screenshots..
Keeping this as a basic vital post highlight source so as new posts with vital information emerges I will just pin it here so it is all in one space and no need to jump around different pages..
To Begin.. The Basic Release Info from SE:
Some First Initial Basic Discoveries:
looks like you enter through Rabao
And you have 30 min to kill a bunch of trash mobs. Probably a boss at the end too.
More Initial Entry Discoveries Pinned:
About to enter Odyssey for the first time.
I'll report back. Setup is PUP, COR, BLU x2, SMN, RDM
Ok, it's looking like they made this content specifically to prevent BLUs from cleaving through this content.
Only main target took full damage. Surrounding targets took 90% reduced damage (main targeet 15k, all others 500 or less)
All mobs can be fully enfeebled (Sleep, Silence, Slow, Para) but standard rules apply for mob types (we saw Skeletons, couldn't Blind them)
I can very easily see a RUN or PLD tank running in and aggroing the group of mobs, with a BRD sleeping them all. 2 DDs kill one by one with proper support. SMN Bloodpacts were doing full damage on single mobs (same rules for BLU applied for SMN when we tried Thunderspark for lulz)
At the end, we found a group of mobs (bats) with a Fetter and a group of untargetable Yagudo. We cleared the bats, then killed the Fetter. Once the Fetter is killed, the Yagudo become targetable. For killing all of the Yagudo, you get 10 Izzat.
In total, we farmed 20 Izzat. We'll try using them tomorrow on boxes, maybe even spawn an NM. After we killed the fetter, a conflux spawned that gave us the opportunity to spawn a monster for 10 Izzat. We were low on time, so we just chose to exit.
Player with Trusts.. First Experience Testimonies:
Went in with trusts. Was able to 1 shot most things with leaden.
Yield: 31 scales and 3 scale boxes (from the chest).
Edit: Chests gave 11, 13 and 16.
More Vital Data Testimonies Discovered:
Random info:
-Killing trash gave izzat and lustreless scales
-Using 10 izzat to pop chest gave 2 scales and a box
-Killing fetter made untargetable yagudo killable, giving 10 izzat killing them all
-Popping NM with 10 izzat from ethereal junction spawned a red morbol that did blood weapon and dropped 2 boxes of scales
-Not sure what items you need to trade to junction to spawn monsters
-Was unable to use the thing at the start after killing fetter/yagudos/morbol, may have to kill all trash? I looked around and missed a pack, timed out before I could kill them all
-Moogle keeps track of trash killed, physis, and chests, and the power of your alter egos while in odyssey (Moogle Mastery)
More Testimonials and Discoveries..
Does anyone know what is needed to clear the RoE for Sheol A?
You need to run (can do on sneak/invi, only trasnparent mobs are true sight/sound) to last floor (A7) using confluxes. On last floor there is Otherworldly Vortex mentioned in RoE quest. You need to touch it (it lets you leave Odyssey too) to complete the quest. Credit for that info goes to Mischief from Bahamut.
Here is a video of my first experience with Odyssey:
YouTube Video Placeholder
Tried exploring, found more information
- I didn't realize there was a conflux on each floor to move up
- Each floor increases in mob level, capping at 131, and general nastiness of monster family (manticores, giants I remember on last floor)
- Translocators bring you down to previous levels, so the first floor one doesn't work until you find the higher level ones
- One character got stuck on a floor and couldn't move up, nor did they get the RoE objective upon someone else reaching the top
So for soloers, seems like it's best to stick to lower level floor to farm scales, more experienced parties can move up to desired difficulty for more scales. First time in would be best just getting the RoE objective and unlocking translocators.
Initial Video Detailing Climb to 7th floor for easy RoE Completion for Augment Unlock on Gear:
YouTube Video Placeholder
More Info about Moglophone KI's:
Anyways did a solo run this morning and got about 100 scales from just killing trash in first floor. Wondering what others are getting from parting up vs solo.
edit: Also can you hold one Moglophone KI on you, and then have the moogle hold one?
I was wondering this too. I picked up my KI last night and am holding it until later today and going to see if I can run two times in a row.
You can. I used my ki after few hours yesterday and when I checked moogle timer was at 15h, so it was going down while I had KI on me.
More Testimonial Higlights:
Bahamut.Lexouritis said: »Maybe Mischief will post about it, he figured it out on his mule. I'll try and post what i know, but it seems like we skip everything and just kill the fetters, mobs around the fetters, and sometimes the UNM near the fetters.
Bahamut.Lexouritis said: »and if u get to the final thing upstairs, personal chest for everyone.
Not sure if someone said it already, but you CAN store a KI. So only need to farm every 2 days!
I am confused on how people move up using sneak and invisible, in this run I explored everything, vortexes just said "you can't use this yet", or let me summon an NM but never move somewhere else, even after i killed the fetter, all the guards, the NM, opened one chest, and killed about 90% of all the mobs. If anybody can spot where in this video I should have been able to "move up" it would really help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i9GhE5nO3I
thanks At the mandies in your run. Just hug left wall and you'll find it. It took me a while to find the first flux as well, but the rest were less "hidden". A video was posted a couple pages ago showing the route.
YouTube Video Placeholder
Bahamut.Lexouritis said: »vortexes just said "you can't use this yet" Need to click Shimmering lights for access to some portals or not have aggro iirc. I may be wrong though
Bahamut.Lexouritis said: » It rewarded me again with a box + 50k gil.
did u kill a fetter? Seems like 50k per Fetter and 1 box per fetter (per character). The big Box from RoE seems to be just 1 time thing. The smaller boxes seem to be fetter based?
Killing all 4 fetters netted us about ~70 scales per run per person after touching otherworldy vortex.
Edit: With RoE quest being completed in a run, was more like 110-130.
So how many scales is it per upgrade? Didn’t see on Bg-wiki and don’t feel like shifting through posts on here. Should be just under 12 stacks to max. Based on scales only being worth 5rp instead of 10 :/
Clip to the top and nab the box, in and out, 5 minute adventure.
For realsies? SE let content like that out after the mass-ban clipping/duping-alex adventures get onto the live server? Thought they learned their lesson since the AMAN trove boxes can't be scouted via Hex IDs. The box he means is the one from completing the RoE once. You can walk to it in 6-7 mins without speed hacks anyway. The big deal about completing the RoE is you can start augmenting your gear at that point.
Well if dude already finished a piece few days after update, there isnt much time gate here it seems.
Probably just the appetitizer was released (im on a work trip, cant "enjoy" the new content till weekend...)
He finished because he bought scales or have legion of mules. Regular player with 1 account will need realistically around 10-14 days for one piece farming daily.
Traded 5 Emperor arthro shells to vortex (dunno how many it took from inventory, might have only taken 1 of the 5). Summoned Brachys, a crab that had a high ass counter rate and instantly killed me on my thf in one attack round. 500+ damage counters with no DT set. Likely not advisable to spawn mobs solo with trusts.
Bahamut.Lexouritis said: »Personal box at the end when touching Otherworldy Vortex for each FETTER you kill, for all party members. If u kill all 4 fetters AND EVERYTHING around them it seems you will get 4 boxes.
~edited phrasing
So looks like if you solo, go for trash and farm with th4+ and for group you kill featers and go touch otherwordly.
Unless maybe kill 2 featers solo and go to the top? You could open 2 chests that way and get 2 boxes. So in theory maybe even get 4 chests and some scales from farming.
Bahamut.Lexouritis said: »
Personal box at the end when touching Otherworldy Vortex for each FETTER you kill, for all party members. If u kill all 4 fetters AND EVERYTHING around them it seems you will get 4 boxes.
~edited phrasing
So looks like if you solo, go for trash and farm with th4+ and for group you kill fetters and go touch otherwordly.
Unless maybe kill 2 fetters solo and go to the top? You could open 2 chests that way and get 2 boxes. So in theory maybe even get 4 chests and some scales from farming.
I'm not sure if you need to just kill the fetters or the fetters + all the semi-invisible beastmen around the fetters.
It's possible to kill a fetter without aggro from the semi invisible beastmen that are sight aggro like Yagudo and Orcs. I'm assuming Quadav will sound aggro which makes them easier to gather in a group.
On the first day, when I duo'd with my cousin on RUN and me on COR with a THF4 set, we killed 1 fetter but stopped killing the semi-invisible beastmen because they were not dropping anything. Not all of the beastmen aggro'd. Only the Yagudo beastmen that were in sight of us or each other aggro'd us. Care needs to be taken by support in this case as support will get aggro'd if they rush in too early before the tank has claim on everything. These mobs hit very hard.
Definitely go in with at least th4 if solo farming just trash mobs.
Go in with a full, balanced party to maximize drops from fetters. The fetters are easy to kill. The beastmen hit hard and have a little more hp than common trash mobs. Helps to sleep them too as they can easily overwhelm even the toughest of tanks.
Me and a group of peeps went in yesterday, to do some testing.
Killing a fetter + beastman group rewards 10 izzat, no special drops were seen, we did not have a thief, just a range using bounty shot.
Gonna test farm some nms tonight. i tried to spawn 1 today with my alt using unity items, turns out 1 is not enough.
My second run of this is probably the best I can do.
Went in, killed all normal monsters, Feters and Beastmen, killed all of the Yaguado. I had 20 Izzat, spawn a Unity NM Which was a Sporebat type mob that died in a 4 step SC. This NM used Blood WEapon, the NM I tried yesterday used 100 fists and rek'd me.
I got 90 Izzat from Monsters and 22 from the 2 boxes that I got from NM and a chest I used them on. The only thing I didn't do on Floor 1 was spawn the Junction that said "Item can be used to pop something here" I had 3 Sarama Hides, 2 Thuban Things and neither worked, nor did a combination of them work.
All of my drops were done with TH2 from Gear.
Few unanswered questions:
How is the augmentation to Trust power in Odyssey earned? I believe the requirement must be more than simply killing sets of trash mobs and making it to the otherworldly at the end.
Rewards upon reaching end were:
360k gil from a group that killed everything on first floor, 2 NM's popped.
100k gil for solo killing 2 groups (4 izzat) worth of scrubs and reaching end.
On another run I also got 100k gil for solo killing more scrubs (4 sets I think.
Seems like the NMs from either spawn point will be one of the 119/122 unity NMs with similar mechanics, but not exactly the same as my morbol didn't go through 3 stages and only did blood weapon. May be a good ideal to either focus on repeatedly killing one to raise its kill count for the moogle or killing all of them at least once. Can't wait for Pandemonium Warden v3 in the future lol Yep. Surprised the hell out of us.
But as I said I was getting 100k for just clearing a couple of easy rooms and heading for the exit solo for the RoE.
Thinking about it, we did a bit more than the first floor full clear on that run, did a second fetter and agon mobs and popped another NM at least. spawn a Unity NM Which was a Sporebat type mob
What method did you use to spawn this nm?
So there seems to be 2 spawn methods, Unity Item (I think 5 minimum) or Izzat once you have killed a fetter.
In terms of the invisible mobs I don't know if its a coincidence or not but every time they have aggro'd they go after my GEO and no other character. Dunno if the bubble is causing something funky to happen.
It should be possible, to kill fetters on all floors + escape as low as 3 man, I cleared everything in my run and had about 3 minutes to spare but a lot of it was goofing about looking at chests etc. I'd say 4 man would be the most optimal though as you can't really AOE.
Only flaw would be is that the fetters on floors seem to be placed randomly so you could get screwed over on travel times but imagine if you wanted to eat some taco's and take that risk you could and do it no probs.
My second run experience soloing on COR with trusts:
Leaden Salute all the things
Tact/Sam with august, ygnas, monb, star sybill, koru
Killed everything on floor 1 and 4 groups on floor 2
30 izzat but could only find 2 chests to open
both chests only dropped 1 box each so was a little unlucky
TH4
Ended up with 135 scales. Could have been alot higher if I found a third chest and if the chests dropped more than 1 box each.
(I also got a message saying 'moogle magic II' when I killed a regular enemy. Must be to do with the total amount of things killed.)
Leviathan.Kingkitt said: »My findings thus far:
As stated multiples times already here, you can sneak/invisible to maneuver around the mobs here. However..
The invisible mobs appear true sight and/or sound, so you have to be cautious of them.
Appears that killing fetters gives personal loot. We all got a box.
You can solo for the RoE if you want following the guidlines above.
Competing RoE gives you 1 large box.
Clear is NOT party wide and each person must touch it individually for credit. (Also recieved 60k gil, we cleared 1 fetter/quadavs, and the mob family near it)
Didn't notice until after fetter and invisible mobs were dead, but one or the other gave 10 izzat.
Have tried a few different unity mats for unm 119/122 and traded 5 to pop a NM. NM that spawned was of the same mob family as items traded.
Tonight ill be going in with my COR GEO duo. How do you do the fetters? Kill the surrounding mobs then attack the fetter while trusts keep you alive with invisible beastmen smacking you? Then the beastmen?
Pull and kill regular mobs, until you see opportunity where nothing is close to fetter (there is always a moment when there is max 1 mob close to it at some point). Kill fetter fast (It's easy to kill. One good 2 step SC will kill it), then kill remaining mobs. I wouldn't try to aggro more than few mobs in general when solo or duoboxing, especially if you dont have Malignance set on COR.
Something of note to add was that our rng and cor were doing 0 dmg to the fetter from distance and had to move much closer to do any damage. This may relate to how aoe does much reduced damage. Max gil reward is higher than we thought, just got 495k from today's run.
Btw force popping nm's uses a single UNM mat, not 5. And they cannot be reused within the same run. Spawning NM appears to be unrelated to what you use to pop.
So far NM's we faced: Tipuli(fly),Aegupius,harpe(weapon),leucippe and physis (morbol).
Moogle mastery ranks up as you kill stuff, @287 kills, 8x NM and 2 chests we at Mastery III.
Max gil reward is higher than we thought, just got 495k from today's run.
Btw force popping nm's uses a single UNM mat, not 5. And they cannot be reused within the same run. Spawning NM appears to be unrelated to what you use to pop.
So far NM's we faced: Tipuli(fly),Aegupius,harpe(weapon),leucippe and physis (morbol).
Moogle mastery ranks up as you kill stuff, @287 kills, 8x NM and 2 chests we at Mastery III.
Do you need to touch the flux on the top floor to get the gil? Or when does the gil actually get distributed to you? Yes, you have to leave personally to get it, and as always if other party members are fighting its locked out.
My second run experience soloing on COR with trusts:
Leaden Salute all the things
Tact/Sam with august, ygnas, monb, star sybill, koru
Killed everything on floor 1 and 4 groups on floor 2
30 izzat but could only find 2 chests to open
both chests only dropped 1 box each so was a little unlucky
TH4
Ended up with 135 scales. Could have been alot higher if I found a third chest and if the chests dropped more than 1 box each.
(I also got a message saying 'moogle magic II' when I killed a regular enemy. Must be to do with the total amount of things killed.)
Tonight ill be going in with my COR GEO duo. How do you do the fetters? Kill the surrounding mobs then attack the fetter while trusts keep you alive with invisible beastmen smacking you? Then the beastmen?
Pull/kill regular mobs with ranged attack. Run in to fetter with max 1 or 2 shadows aggro. Kill fetter > kill the rest.
Just look out what you aggro. Aggroing BLM mob that stand close to middle will probably result in mass link eventually. Regular mobs dont link at all, but transparent mobs (before and after killing fetter) do.
Each flux takes you to a higher floor. There are 7 floors with the 7th floors flux being the exit and the RoE objective.
Each flux takes you to a higher floor. There are 7 floors with the 7th floors flux being the exit and the RoE objective. Not sure if it was mentioned, but looks like you can't pop the same NM twice from UNM mats in the same run. Popped once on first floor, and later on the 4th floor it gave a message saying we couldn't pop the same NM again.
Sharing Shamgi's notes posted in the BST forum for relevant details:
Ok, just went into an Odyssey and discovered some things:
1. You can charm things in there. Things seemed to be fairly simple to charm, and Charm+ gear meant that my dhalmel stayed charmed 15+ minutes.
2.Charmed pets seem to be quite strong. Beyond the normal HP, they seemed to have fairly high damage, hitting other mobs in their own pack for 4-600 a swing, with crits as high as 900. My Dhalmel once used Berserk and those numbers got pretty big, same with their Sound Wave move. My record was a crit for 1500 or so. This is with NQ food and no other pet related buffs. I had one crawler end up at 74% when it killed another crawler in the pack, likely benefiting from all the DA and Haste.
3. Pets seem quite effective at killing the Halos. They hit hard already, but notably, they aggro nothing, not even the Beastmen around the Halos when doing so. The Halo produces a damaging AOE every couple of seconds that was hitting for 200 or so, but the pet, with it's 40k+ HP, doesn't care at all. Indeed, I left the pet to it's own devices and killed other packs with trusts while it worked the halo down itself, which actually seemed quite nice. When it died, the Orcs around it didn't aggro, so it was easy to pull them one by one, as they don't link either.
4. Mob spawns are random, which can hurt this strat, but from two runs a majority of the packs seem charmable, and many of them are often pretty powerful. Given the strat above, I feel like a monk style pet would be best here.
Overall, I'm super interested in trying this with a full group where you can use the pet to deal with adds while you work on a pack yourself and to safely kill Halos while you clear other things.
One issue was Sic, the recast was way worse than I remembered, and my lua isn't set up at all to deal with it. My best guess is to just set up my gearswap to always produce a physical damage set for Sic and then just use pets who focus physical damage with their TP moves. If it's a buff move, then no big deal, if it's physical then it's the right set.
They do link, my experience has been all sight linking though (fought orcs and yags so far). Do not link with the Fetter though, found this out by trying to range attack the fetter down, only to realize the fetter is immune to auto-range attacks.
They do link, my experience has been all sight linking though (fought orcs and yags so far).
Well its kinda expected. Orc, Yagudo and Goblins are all sight aggro/link. Quadavs are sound aggro/link and it's how they are in Odyssey too.
They arent immune to ranged attacks you just need to be stood in the fetter to do damage.
So not immune to ranged attacks, but immune to any attacks from a range. XD
As with all farming things it's more efficient to solo, if the kill speed is high, like 119 content. 6 solos have 6x more chances for boxes.
Luck's definitely a factor; and yeah I think solo probably is best.
I think a lot of it has to do with people finding each other, people needing to sneak/invis themselves, and having to stagger the flux (so it doesn't glitch out). Was a lot of wasted time there.
Was just curious if other groups were experiencing it as well.
Went in as Pup/Whm. Killed 3 Fetters, champion NM on floor 7 after fetter, and a few other random mobs using automaton only.
Literally no drops + exit only gave me 5k gil.
I wonder if you need to take an action on the fetters or something yourself before you can get drops or credit for killing them.
Went in as Pup/Whm. Killed 3 Fetters, champion NM on floor 7 after fetter, and a few other random mobs using automaton only.
Literally no drops + exit only gave me 5k gil.
I wonder if you need to take an action on the fetters or something yourself before you can get drops or credit for killing them. As group you are suppose to kill Fetter at floor 1,3,5 and 7 and run to otherworldy vortex at the end. You should get 4 PERSONAL box from otherworldy that way and I think one more personal box from killing beastman kings at floor 7 (they are around Fetter there).
So thats 5 personal chests
At least 40 Izzat to open chests
Probably at least 40 single scales from killing trash around fetters if you take at least TH4 with you.
Small boxes are on avg around 13 scales?
So probably around 70-80 scales at least per person, maybe more if you have time to farm more.
Very good geared solo player on specific job like COR, can get more with luck, but it might be other bonuses from killing fetters and NMs that we might dont know about.
Went in as Pup/Whm. Killed 3 Fetters, champion NM on floor 7 after fetter, and a few other random mobs using automaton only.
Literally no drops + exit only gave me 5k gil.
I wonder if you need to take an action on the fetters or something yourself before you can get drops or credit for killing them.
No, you need to kill Fetter AND beastman mobs around it to get credit for personal box at the end and 10 Izzat. I assume you killed only Fetters.
Bahamut.Lexouritis said: »THF can pick the locks/chests in odyssey, in case no one mentioned, or knows about it yet. However some times mimic will pop out. Unsure how hard they are, as it opens with deathtrap, and his mule has sparks gear (and it got one shot). Credit goes to mischief
"Either gave a 'however it has no effect' message and consumed the tool, opened the chest, or a mimic popped out"
Awesome Map created by Pantafernando:
I made a quick map of Odyssey to make ease to hit the fluxes.
Etheral Junctions, Fetters and camps change apparently random.
EDIT: all maps have North heading the upper border.
Aegypius NM:
Bird
Popped using 5 Abyssdiver feathers
Uses Broadside Barrage and Damnation Dive
Uses Perfect Dodge at low HP and gains an Encumbrance aura that stays for the rest of the fight
Carbuncle.Papesse said: »Beware of the Treant NM Ptelea and its dangerous Leafstorm AoE. Leafstorm is hybrid wind based. It can crit, miss, be absorbed by shadows and Elemental Sforzo. One For All, Gelus Valiance and Baraero substantially reduce damage.
As far as getting these telepoints, mentioned on BGwiki's Odyssey page that you're supposed to be able to travel between to get to further levels of Odyssey, does anyone have any info on the requirements to gain access to these? Do you have to kill all of the fetters to go up a floor? Also, has anyone tried going in with a group of six and then disbanding and everyone using their own trusts to expediate the process of both killing enemies on every floor, taking care of all the fetters on a floor and then popping the nm's so that you might progress to these tele-points if those happened to be the requirements? I know some players might have found that they can farm higher amounts of the Lustreless Scales solo rather than teaming up but if you go in with 6 and then make you're own parties with trusts.. and there are multiple telepoints with up to say 15 sets of mobs and fetters then the possibility of having a high return still might be worth it.
Another thing i noticed maybe means nothing but i saw some pixels floating out of nowhere that seemed like a mobs name. Maybe a glitch? Or the others maps? Or a random mob?
I'm sure people regularly killing fluxes/beastmen already knew this, but AoEs that would have hit the untargettable/invisible beastmen will still generate enmity on them, so people should watch for that if they're sleepgaing or horde lullabying fodder.
We spawned an NM in today's run.
Brachys: Crab NM (PLD/MNK)
Had a pretty decent (25-30%) Counter rate. Bubble Curtain's Shell effect reduced enspell (RDM with Crocea Mors) dmg to 0 unless it was dispelled. Used Invincible at 25%. Easily landed enfeebles (Slow, Para, Blind, Frazzle, Distract) Pretty easy fight overall.
It was spawned using 10 Izzat after we killed Fetter + Beastmen mobs surrounding it.
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »I have Moogle Mastery III, not sure what's doing it. Status report has:
Nostos killed: 306
Damysus: 2
Salmandra: 2
Cynara: 1
Chests: 3
Seems I ranked up when I killed an Agon Bruiser.
The augment system is “tiered”. I’m working on my alts Emeici +1.
Ranks 1-5 give +2 damage. Ranks 6-10 give +2 damage, +3 acc/macc. I assume ranks 11-15 give +2 damage, +3 acc/macc, +2 crit rate.
That’s a neat way to do it, it incentivizes the more expensive ranks.
Just had a bad solo experience... turns our not all popped NM's are soloable. Do not recommend popping the nm's for 10 izzat.
Got a cactus who would constantly triple attack and did 600 normal / 1200 crit per attack round. August got insta-KO then healer then myself within 7 seconds.
Recent Video by Brother Ejinn and Martel:
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