March 2019 Version Update

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March 2019 Version Update
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 Asura.Karumac
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By Asura.Karumac 2019-03-25 13:16:51
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I'm just gonna respond to these two points here.

Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Ambuscade: too variable month-to-month to make sweeping judgments about any job, but BLM can conceivably be useful or monthly mechanics can be tweaked to favor BLM.
While I haven't tested it personally, I have been told that except when specifically altered as a mechanic, ambuscade mobs tend to have a very steeply overscaled MDB as you up the difficulty slider. I don't know if the intent is to lock out MB setups, but that is the effect usually.

Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Geas Fete: Not very popular on Reisenjima T4 (a handful of NMs), but it's fine to great on the vast majority of easier fights. Also can't ignore that BLM was the meta for this content for ages when Escha/Reisenjima was the main focus of FFXI, so it's kinda hard to say BLM didn't have its day as the king of this "event".
I don't know the timeframe for this, so someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but was this around the same time there was a bug doubling the potency of all Geomancy related to MAcc and MEva?

I'm also sure the other more relevant factor was the evasion stats on these mobs were so high that it's not that BLM was the best, it's that no other strat was possible because player accuracy couldn't get there.
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By eliroo 2019-03-25 13:25:57
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I mean this was a time period where people were using Death MB strats and thought PLD was the better tank for it.
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2019-03-25 13:35:00
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Asura.Karumac said: »
While I haven't tested it personally, I have been told that except when specifically altered as a mechanic, ambuscade mobs tend to have a very steeply overscaled MDB as you up the difficulty slider. I don't know if the intent is to lock out MB setups, but that is the effect usually.

If that is true, that's not a problem with BLM inherently needing a fix so much as it is an issue of an Ambuscade mechanic intentionally put into place, and possible to be altered some months or not included in future non-Ambuscade events.

Quote:
I don't know the timeframe for this, so someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but was this around the same time there was a bug doubling the potency of all Geomancy related to MAcc and MEva?

Yes. And that doesn't change the fact that BLM was the king of the event for well over a year (and it's still viable on the same mobs, thanks to power creep meaning broken GEO spells aren't required for MB to still work).

Quote:
I'm also sure the other more relevant factor was the evasion stats on these mobs were so high that it's not that BLM was the best, it's that no other strat was possible because player accuracy couldn't get there.

No real debate there, but BLM was still in the #1 spot for ages before any melee could even catch up.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-03-25 13:57:54
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For those 4 things;

Is BLM good in dynamis; noonecaresleadensalute

Is BLM good in ambuscade; Mob HP is WAY TO HIGH for MB and their magic defense and evasion is too damn high

Is BLM good in Omen; Kinda, it's usable not prefered.

Is BLM good in Gaea's Fate; It's acceptable, but also the slowest method now.

It's a fun tank. So now BLM is equal with PUP for funsies, and that's it.
 Asura.Meliorah
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By Asura.Meliorah 2019-03-25 14:12:49
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At least BLM still has Vagary.
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By Asura.Byrne 2019-03-25 14:16:10
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Except, in vagary, since jobs are far more durable now, and because of power creep, you're better off just using RDM and GEO for the bursts since they're probably handy anyway, and as for the funsies tanking, Mana Wall is dispellable. I'd say BLM needs some tweaks. Either that or other jobs need some tweaks to better facilitate BLM.

The one thing I WILL say BLM is great for is on content T3 and down, it is very unlikely to pull hate off of a tank, and they have low enough HP that the lower damage output isn't a big deal... So there's that I guess... but again, it's something RDM and GEO can do.
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By Nyarlko 2019-03-25 14:19:49
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
For those 4 things;

Is BLM good in dynamis; noonecaresleadensalute

Is BLM good in ambuscade; Mob HP is WAY TO HIGH for MB and their magic defense and evasion is too damn high

Is BLM good in Omen; Kinda, it's usable not prefered.

Is BLM good in Gaea's Fate; It's acceptable, but also the slowest method now.

It's a fun tank. So now BLM is equal with PUP for funsies, and that's it.

Divergence: iagreewholeheartedly

Ambuscade: The only real deterrents against using nuking strats is that mob MDB+MDT+SDT is stupidly excessive, particularly at higher difficulties in Vol 1. There's also a nearly always implemented anti-AOE mechanic which reduces damage dealt to AOE targets by ~99%. Targets having high HP actually should encourage the use of MB since, otherwise, they are consistent/reliable sources of high damage spikes with low TP feed and zero enmity concerns (as long as you have consistent/reliable source for skillchains.)

Omen: Given that you may be facing damage absorption mechanics, sometimes with the added bonus of having only certain windows where it's safe to nuke, and that the bosses seem to have rather high anti-magic defenses, I get why many prefer to use melee here (now that we can not-miss.)

Geas Fete: Not sure if it's actually any slower on average than a comparable melee. It is definitely still nearly always safer to go with a SCHsc+BLMmb strat, and requires far less support than a comparable melee group. The only fights that should give a MBing BLM any trouble whatsoever are the ones specifically designed to be anti-magic.


IMO, the only real problem that BLM faces is that too much of the newer content is overly resistant to magic damage by design... And not enough enmity+ gear to let me Mana Wall tank effectively. XD
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By eliroo 2019-03-25 14:24:27
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Also kind of an issue when they aren't really the undisputed king of magic damage.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-03-25 14:43:01
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They really *** up magical damage over the last couple years.

Weaponskills got retardedly strong, hybrids too. Yet ACTUAL magic fell by the wayside. Again.

It just goes in cycles. beginning of the game magic ws are super OP. Then we get stuck bursting for 4 years. then we get melee zerg for 4 years. then they make bursts OP. Then they add the resistance for casting and we start over.

It's kinda sad that it takes DRAMATIC changes to get "us" to do something outside current meta.
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By Nyarlko 2019-03-25 14:58:07
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
They really *** up magical damage over the last couple years.

Weaponskills got retardedly strong, hybrids too. Yet ACTUAL magic fell by the wayside. Again.

It just goes in cycles. beginning of the game magic ws are super OP. Then we get stuck bursting for 4 years. then we get melee zerg for 4 years. then they make bursts OP. Then they add the resistance for casting and we start over.

It's kinda sad that it takes DRAMATIC changes to get "us" to do something outside current meta.

If it ain't broke, don't change it. <--- FFXI Playerbase Mantra
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2019-03-25 15:13:18
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It would be kinda cool if BLM didn't instantly suck any time you have any melees who aren't totally dedicated to setting up SCs for the mages to burst on. I like that they made some effort to make SC+MB a thing again after falling by the wayside for so long, and I do think MB should provide a real benefit. But BLM shouldn't be as utterly useless if free nuking as it currently is.

Do something to the imapact of MDmg on non-MB nukes, do something cool with Cascade, make AMII more meaningful (land it and make that cause a real impact on follow up nukes from the same BLM for some time?), let a single MB also power up your free nukes for some time, etc...
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-03-25 15:31:56
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Calling it now, they'll add something "elemental magic deals damage as though it were bursted"

Would that be toooooo OP... probably

But shining one is jesus *** levels of broken, so... when its all broken, nothing is broken.
 Shiva.Spynx
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By Shiva.Spynx 2019-03-25 15:33:57
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
It's kinda sad that it takes DRAMATIC changes to get "us" to do something outside current meta.
It's not sad, it's human nature, find path of least resistance -> use it exclusively ( something something SMN burn something something ).

I feel like we had a transition period when melee and mages were comparable when reisenjima came out but since then all improvements have been heavily skewed toward melee. Think about all the good omen pieces, +2/3 af/relic, ambu weapon/gear, R15 weapons
 Shiva.Arislan
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By Shiva.Arislan 2019-03-25 15:54:13
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Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
It would be kinda cool if BLM didn't instantly suck any time you have any melees who aren't totally dedicated to setting up SCs for the mages to burst on. I like that they made some effort to make SC+MB a thing again after falling by the wayside for so long, and I do think MB should provide a real benefit. But BLM shouldn't be as utterly useless if free nuking as it currently is.

Do something to the imapact of MDmg on non-MB nukes, do something cool with Cascade, make AMII more meaningful (land it and make that cause a real impact on follow up nukes from the same BLM for some time?), let a single MB also power up your free nukes for some time, etc...

I'd rather them introduce more incentive for DD's to SC and for parties to incorporate MBs than make free nukes more viable.

Can't think of anything more annoying than having everybody and their mother spamming WS AND the backline spamming nukes.

Introduce an additional resist wall for repeated WS/damage types. Multiple BLM has to deal with diminishing returns. So should multiple melee, SMNs BPing, etc. Otherwise, there's no incentive to coordinate, or bring backline magic damage into the mix.

Brainless zerging needs to die.
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-03-25 15:56:56
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The only way that happens is if they completely remove haste from the game at this point lol. Even reduced potency wouldn't matter. Cut ws damage in half it's still better than waiting and nuking. That's the problem.

Nukes need to do a million instead of 100k lol

The BEST nuker is doing like 1800 DPS... melee are pulling 7g's 8g's (on paper)
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 Asura.Karumac
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By Asura.Karumac 2019-03-25 16:22:51
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So what you are saying is...

Theoretical Insane Buff said:
Magic burst: Multiplier increased x10.
Magic burst: No longer obeys damage cap.
I like it.
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By Shiva.Arislan 2019-03-25 16:28:52
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
The only way that happens is if they completely remove haste from the game at this point lol. Even reduced potency wouldn't matter. Cut ws damage in half it's still better than waiting and nuking. That's the problem.

Nukes need to do a million instead of 100k lol

The BEST nuker is doing like 1800 DPS... melee are pulling 7g's 8g's (on paper)

Scale up the resist wall with repeated uses within the window, up to -100%. Not just flat -60% reduction after the initial use.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-03-25 16:52:48
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Then they will just WAR everything and switch from Shining to Chango to Axe to Rag back to Shining. Nothing solved.
It would still be faster to reset your tp every single ws and never get aftermath, than it is to nuke.
 
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By 2019-03-25 16:56:29
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-03-25 16:59:51
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It's not about hard or relevant it's about 22 jobs in the *** game and only 7 get used at any given time.

They really should just rotate deleting 10 jobs at random every month. That'd be entertaining.
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By SimonSes 2019-03-25 17:06:16
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Shiva.Arislan said: »
Asura.Eiryl said: »
The only way that happens is if they completely remove haste from the game at this point lol. Even reduced potency wouldn't matter. Cut ws damage in half it's still better than waiting and nuking. That's the problem.

Nukes need to do a million instead of 100k lol

The BEST nuker is doing like 1800 DPS... melee are pulling 7g's 8g's (on paper)

Scale up the resist wall with repeated uses within the window, up to -100%. Not just flat -60% reduction after the initial use.

That creates other problems, like for example favors specific melee jobs. It would also make pugs even harder to make and succeed.

If you want to stop brainless zergs, just give harder NMs some kind of rage tp move based on for example tp given to mob per sec, like if for example mob is getting 3000TP from being hit in some low specified time, then he can use super powerful move that kills half the party/aliance or gives him long lasting 30' amnesia aura.
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By soralin 2019-03-26 17:56:36
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Overkill.

Just make an NM the flips its ***when you 1 hour.

1 hours are the problem in FFXI. Geo, bard, smn, bst, pup, they all lose a tonne of their zerg strength if they cant yse SP abilities in a fight.
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2019-03-26 18:52:49
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
It's not about hard or relevant it's about 22 jobs in the *** game and only 7 get used at any given time.

Everyone is just freaking out about nonsense. Wave 3 clears are doable by practically every single job in the game (maybe not BST? Haven't seen a pet clear in regards to long term viability for wave 3). And Ambu weapons and augments on weapons have made every job stronger since the initial wave 3 clears. Every job has the potential to engage in the game. If you can't on your jobs, that means you're the one failing, not the game.

Jobs I've personally seen do solid damage in Dynamis: WAR, DRK, THF, RUN, MNK, COR, SAM, DRG, NIN, DNC, BLU

Essential support jobs: GEO, BRD, RDM, WHM

Tanks that can handle it: PLD, RUN, even PUP

Jobs I've seen work in alternate setups: RNG, BLM, SCH

Only jobs not on this list: SMN, BST. SMN is plenty viable in other content (and potentially viable in Dyna-D with the right player/setup) I don't really know the current status of BST, though I've seen pet LS's tear up t4's, so I don't think they're entirely useless.

But that's damn every job in the game that has the ability to clear the hardest content currently in the game: Dynamis wave 3. Just because YOU don't clear it on every job at all times, doesn't mean it's not possible. And asking a company to balance 15 DD's to be totally even on DPS is a completely impossible task and I have no idea why I read people claim they want this.

Is the game perfectly balanced? No. Is it possible for it to be? Not a chance in hell. Are job differences the major issue with balance? No.

You people freak out about the most miniscule differences as well. Everyone talking about WAR and the Polearm being OP as ***. I did a Teles last night, Polearm WAR with MS up (yes, I know, not super impactful with the polearm) and he beat my THF by like 20k, him blowing all his cooldowns, using extra madrigals for him, and him getting the final WS off. If I used temps and had super revit SA/TA back, I could have won the parse, too. Nobody going around saying THF is godly and needs to be nerfed. We melee'd Teles down in a minute with no issues, no Bolster, maybe SV, roll COR only.

Game isn't so hard we need to worry about the difference in #1 and #2 and act like only #1 job is able to complete content. And we're talking literally seconds difference between a lot of the jobs when played at their peak, in almost no fight is that going to make or break it, at least any more than RNG would.

The biggest issue with balance in this game is the COMMUNITY. Seeing people shout for Idris GEO for Ambu this month...when you DON'T EVEN NEED A GEO. But everyone acts like it's essential. It's the same thing when you see people arguing about jobs. Most jobs have some niche, and while in some content it sucks that MNK and NIN niche's aren't super necessary, in some content they are very good. Just because you can't utilize them in your setup doesn't mean the job is entirely broken. Just look at the ideal wave 3 merc strat, it's using RANGERS. A job that the NA community hasn't used in the meta for literally years. But it's now one of the leading jobs in top tier content if you know how to put it together right.

And on the topic of BLM's, I've seen a JP player clear wave 3 with a MB strat, and they even manage it presumably without using any sort of windower or tools. Just because how you play the game excludes 15 jobs in the game doesn't mean the actual mechanics of the game do.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-03-26 19:27:20
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Ehh it's not that simple, it's about slots and who can fill specific roles.

BRD, GEO and COR all fill their own roles and become required in virtually all setups. They don't replace each other either so it's 3 slots for 3 different jobs.

WHM fills it's own role as the only real healer for groups due to Curaga III, it's also 1 slot with only 1 job that can fill it.

PLD and RUN are the tanks though RUN is better by such a large margin we might as well just have one. SE needs to seriously give PLD a self cast foil like hate spell. 1 slot with 2 jobs.

Which leave us with the following jobs for DPS slots.

WAR, DRK, SAM, DRG, THF, MNK, NIN, DNC, BLU, RNG, BLM

In a 6 man party you will have 1~2 DD's depending if a team wants a tank so that leaves us with 11 jobs for that 1~2 slots.

RDM, SCH and PUP are all super situational though RDM is a bit more common in alliance content as the tank party normally has space for them.

Six Man Team

DD/Tank
DD
COR
GEO
BRD
WHM

Alliance Team

Two of These
DD x 2
COR
GEO
BRD
WHM

Tank x 1~2 (can be one)
WHM
Extra x 3 (RDM/SCH/GEO/ect.)

For ranged setups just replace DD with RNG or COR.

BLM suck *** because the damage wall cause's multiple of them to nerf each others damage. This was put in place to prevent an alliance of BLM's from time nuking entire BC's like they used to, it should be removed as it no longer serves it's purpose. A BLM is anywhere from 1/8 to 1/10 the damage of a DD and only gets worse as you add more BLMs.

DPS wise SE is trying to balance out the melee's, RNG is ok but could use a boost to keep up with COR. Support wise SE needs to lay off the stacking buffs and allow other jobs the ability to do similar buffs. PLD needs an enmity buff and RDM / SCH need access to Curaga III to create some diversity.
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By Sidiov 2019-03-26 19:36:59
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Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
Tanks that can handle it: PLD, RUN, even PUP
That's like saying 'you people'
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By soralin 2019-03-26 19:44:31
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Asura.Saevel said: »
BLM suck *** because the damage wall cause's multiple of them to nerf each others damage. This was put in place to prevent an alliance of BLM's from time nuking entire BC's like they used to, it should be removed as it no longer serves it's purpose. A BLM is anywhere from 1/8 to 1/10 the damage of a DD and only gets worse as you add more BLMs.

Would we be happy if Magic Bursts just straight up ignored the damage wall entirely? I feel like thats a reasonable place to start and fits in FFXI's design scheme of rewarding teamwork.
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-03-26 19:57:03
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Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
COMMUNITY.

Obviously
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2019-03-26 20:04:11
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Asura.Saevel said: »

BLM suck ***

I know what you mean by this and they are absolutely valid criticisms, however BLM can be the main DD and clear aeonics and wave 3. So they're still viable in some manner. People act like they're an entirely dead job, but that's because of how the NA meta works, not because the job is entirely useless.
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-03-26 20:25:40
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See, it really doesn't matter in the slightest how it's supposed to work, only how the people make it work, or in this case, no longer do.

Let's open a can of worms; SMN isn't broken. If you're in an established group and you already had no issues doing aeonics, you just want to speed it up, totally reasonable. Nothing broken with that. It's like fast forward on new game plus. For funsies.

What makes it broken is the people straight up refuse to do anything else. for the hundred reasons we all already know.

So while it's not broken at all, it's 100% completely broken at the same time.
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