Political Discussion Thread

Just because she "visited" doesn't mean they treated it, yes there are some that have a risk for cancer, but doesn't mean that doctor uses that, I would think they didn't treat it because she would have to use her insurance to cover that and they would know about it no?

That simply sounds they don't want to pay the assload they are going to have to pay for her treatment, if they even remotely cared about their customers they would have just like made her payments higher instead of completely *** her over, but omg they'd lose money, there is a reason they won't insure high risk people, they drop people for any reason they can.

They may not make it a business to aim to screw you, but they will when they get the chance.

We are given limited information about this problem. Who's to say anything about who did what to whom?

Give us the full details before we pass out judgement. Where is the other side's story? You will never see it because it doesn't make "good news"

Indeed. But you will never get the companies story lol :x

In general it just seems a little daring to combine a businesses need for profit with a person's health because at some point each end is going to clash, and while there are surely cases where the insurance company took a hit because they were obligated by their own insurance policy, pretty much any case, even one, where a person's health is shoved aside for profit seems pretty awful. In this I think healthcare is special and unique because in any other instance of insurance you aren't risking death, or living a shorter, less enjoyable life. For this reason it makes sense for healthcare to be not-for-profit, as is being proposed with the public option. It's kind of hard to be concerned for a company's welfare, even if very valid points are being made, when it means leaving millions of people out to dry. D:

I'm not saying everyone who's insured is going to be better off, but I do think overall they'd have a much better chance than not having health insurance at all.

I can't resist, so just disregard my post.

Bring back Bush!!! Four more years@!!!

I don't vote I don't complain

First term or second term? o.o

vote for the third party guy so you can complain without people saying that you didnt vote =P

I'm not even registered to vote, lol

its really easy to register to vote

Yes I paid attention to the video. Especially to the part where the execs admitted that they would not stop rescission practices even if there was no intentional fraudulent misrepresentation. The first panel had no intentional fraudulent claims, but were still denied coverage. So your claim that these companies do it purely for the purposes of protecting themselves from fraud I do not agree with.

The fact that these actions are currently protected by law makes no difference. The beauty of the American system is our laws can change. Especially if it's apparent that the current laws are immoral. The American civil rights movement being a case in point.

It comes down to viewing health care as a moral right, or a personal luxury. If you happen to view it from the other side, there is little I can do to convince you.

Oh I know, they're on my college campus tryin to get me to do it all the time.

If they are breaking the law and getting away with it, then I understand your point. But you make it seem like its ok for them to get screwed over, as long as it doesn't affect you. But if enough companies get screwed over because you think they should, then they will move away from here. Where does that leave you? Screwed, thats what it leaves you.

I'm not saying that they are angels, but damn, they do so much for you that you don't even begin to REALIZE. You should be thankful to each and every single large corporation for your type of lifestyle today.

I want to be clear. First, from what I've seen or read, the insurance companies are within their right to deny you service based on any and all preexisting conditions. That is, there is no law against it. While I understand that this right is put in place to protect insurance companies from fraud, I believe it is an overused/misused right.

Second, I do not wish to screw over "x" company. I only wish, to be provided with consumer protections, that insure that the product I pay for is indeed the product I receive. I do not think this is a particularly left wing ideology.

Thirdly, Although, I do not think health care should be handled by for-profit companies. I am thankful to large companies that provide me with a very comfortable living standard. However, buying dvds or video games doesn't have the same moral dilemma for me that health care based on ability to pay does. The state of your health should not be a status symbol in other words.

Without weighing in any particular issue, the following links might be very helpful for this thread:

Politifact.com and FactCheck.org

They are independent, non-partisan groups who's sole purpose is to investigate claims made by politicians on either side, and check the references/research.

Starting with them is usually a good idea when trying to formulate a political argument, no matter what side of the issue you're on. Just like Snopes.com is the best place to check before you hit Forward on that chain email from your eccentric uncle.

if its run by not-for-profit agencies, then why would they care about your health at all?

Why would they develop new medicines?

Why would they care if you are bleeding from the waist down, because mr. ingrown toenail was there before you.

Why would they even give you any service? You aren't paying them, you are just a number to them.

Take a good, long look at how Medicare is being run. Really look at it. Apply for it. Try it. And you will see what it would be like when the government will take over healthcare.

Thanks, Jaerik, I used factcheck a lot during the election to quell family uprisings during massive email spammings, but totally forgot it after the fact. Politifact's promise-tracker is really interesting, too.

Also, I don't see the point you're trying to make about not-for-profits, Korpg. It's actually kind of ridiculous so I can't figure out how to respond. lol Oh well! I'll give Medicare a shot in 43 years when I'm eligible, assuming the world hasn't collapsed into itself as a result of a government take-over. lol I'll likely also apply for supplemental insurance from a private company if I feel the need to, as it is my right which would still be available to me under any government plan.

@Blindphleb: So far I've agreed with most of what you're saying and feel like you're making the argument for this a lot better than I can, being why I'm mostly just reading instead of posting, so thanks!

The idea of a non-profit company/organization is to "exist solely to provide programs and services that are of public benefit" (wiki). Your statement that I wouldn't be paying them is not based in fact. I would be paying for services from a non-profit, however that money is not distributed to stakeholders or owners, but instead is used to help pursue the company/organizations goals.

As for what would motivate people to work in non-profits? I would argue that instead of a financial reward, people who choose to work for non-profits do so because they genuinely care about the work they are doing. I can speak from my own experience and say that I often times went above and beyond my job description when providing health care in the hospital I worked at. I did this not because there was a big fat stock option waiting at the end of the day, but because I realized that the people I was caring for were at their weakest moments, and it was the right thing to do.

I remember reading an article somewhere (and for the life of me I can't remember where it was from) that talked about the value of volunteer work in bigger companies. It mentioned the success of such items as open source software and Wikipedia. If anyone remembers reading this, please let me know. I think it was Time, Newsweek, or something like that.

Regardless of what you do, you still work for money. You may think you are working for something other than money, but you will not work without it. If you want to be all humanitarian about this, work for free. Lets see how long you get by without a paycheck before you have to change your ways.

Companies are the same way, for profit and not-for-profits. You may think that not-for-profits don't care about the bottom line, but in all aspects, they care more about the bottom line and will cut corners more than for profit companies.

Why? Because, for profit companies have extra capital to not cut so many corners. They charge you for the extra service, and to improve their service. You go to a company that is for profit for thoses services.

Not-for-profits are different. They have to give you the minimum service just to survive. You may think they are humanitarian by offering cheaper prices for the poor, but you don't realize that you get what you paid for.

Until you understand this concept, our discussion is over.

bah w/e greedy *** humans always wanting more. worlds over populated any hootz
just live your life to its fullest and be happy your not enslaved i say lol

Randomly bolding words does not make people take you anymore seriously. True story.

I'm not randomly bolding words, I'm bolding words with emphasis. Meaning I wish to convey that these words are more important than you might think.

Read posts next time before you assume you can understand them.

orly

yarly

Lets keep arguing about bolded words.

no

This is why when in the company of friends or family i make it a point to never discuss politics, religion, or sensitive subjects like abortion.

No two people share the exact same views, and it will always remain that way.

I have opinions and my own ideals but would never push them onto other people.

When you're with friends/family you can just laugh it off instead of getting butthurt and hate someone.
Its stranger's you dont talk this stuff with.

No one I know really understands/agrees with my political views...

Reading this thread is very sad and disheartening seeing people with such negative views on humanity in general.
It is so obvious how America has sadly been brainwashed generation after generation to look down on the poor and cast them out as lepers. You call yourself a christian nation yet turn a blind eye to many of the social problems that have plagued this country for the last 100 years. Aside from that, America does have the best medical technology in the world this is true, but the PREVENTIVE care is what has been lacking . Also what people do not understand is the health-care industry is in it to make money , not help people. As someone already mentioned people who are covered often get turned down by the smallest insignificant pre-existing conditions. It is that very view of being superior to the poor that holds back Americas true potential as a great society. Believe me if we did not have nukes , we would have been a territory of another country long ago . I leave you all with a very true quote.

"Why go your whole life seeking the tangible presets of a culture that promotes largess and excess? Why tell yourself you follow an ideology that promotes helping others and condemns the rich , yet seek a life surrounded with material excess? If the grand judgment of souls is a true reality to humanity the United States and any ideology based, god fearing nation is a sad lot indeed. Half hearted faith is not faith at all , it is a mere lie to oneself to justify the things we do."

HR. Crimson

I dont know what America you are looking at.

Yes yes we ignore everything, that's why we are the same people just like in 1909