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FL Bill Would Imprison TSs for Using Bathrooms
By Jetackuu 2015-02-09 11:43:02
Aside from the spin placed on it by certain posters and the opinion article, it looks like the purpose of the bill is to punish those who are in the wrong restroom, regardless of them being "trans" or not.
It's not discriminating, if it were written as such to where it only targeted transsexuals, then you'd have a point, but it isn't.
However as I've said many times: they should just improve privacy in restrooms and stop segregating them based on sex and or gender entirely.
It's specifically discriminatory toward trans because they're basing gender solely on genitals and their caricature perception of men in drag.
I don't see anyone basing gender at all. Well unless you mean people in this thread, because then who cares?
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-02-09 11:46:48
Ah 'Murica, you can't stop jailing people for dumb ***.
By fonewear 2015-02-09 11:49:32
You see the dumb people keep jails in business.
VIP
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-02-09 11:49:56
Aside from the spin placed on it by certain posters and the opinion article, it looks like the purpose of the bill is to punish those who are in the wrong restroom, regardless of them being "trans" or not.
It's not discriminating, if it were written as such to where it only targeted transsexuals, then you'd have a point, but it isn't.
However as I've said many times: they should just improve privacy in restrooms and stop segregating them based on sex and or gender entirely.
It's specifically discriminatory toward trans because they're basing gender solely on genitals and their caricature perception of men in drag.
I don't see anyone basing gender at all. Well unless you mean people in this thread, because then who cares?
The wording of the bill is such. They use "biological" gender. Someone also brought up the people who carry xxy chromosomes. The law is specifically discriminatory to anyone who doesn't fall squarely within the gender norms of male and female exclusively.
You know as well as anyone that laws have no hope of passing with the Herman Cain approach, but don't think that because the law doesn't have a bunch of redneck words that it isn't driven by exactly the same line of narrow thought.
 Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2015-02-09 12:48:03
So, does it really need to be said that there is a stall and door for each, individual toilet in the ladies room? Your collective slangin' wang into a trough or unenclosed urinal rules don't apply here. :/
How many threads do we have about this topic now? Where am I? What am I doing?
By fonewear 2015-02-09 12:50:57
So, does it really need to be said that there is a stall and door for each, individual toilet in the ladies room? Your collective slangin' wang into a trough or unenclosed urinal rules don't apply here. :/
How many threads do we have about this topic now? Where am I? What am I doing?
This is the internet dead horses are everywhere !
Sometimes it's fun to beat a dead horse !
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-02-09 12:56:41
So, does it really need to be said that there is a stall and door for each, individual toilet in the ladies room? Your collective slangin' wang into a trough or unenclosed urinal rules don't apply here. :/
How many threads do we have about this topic now? Where am I? What am I doing?
This is the internet dead horses are everywhere !
Sometimes it's fun to beat a dead horse ! Or just poke it with a stick.
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By fonewear 2015-02-09 12:59:38
The real question is what if a horse doesn't identify with it's genitalia ?
Can it still run in the Kentucky Derby or is there a trans gender horse race ?
Just think the amount of time spent thinking about this topic could have been put to good use.
Thanks internet!
By Jetackuu 2015-02-09 13:14:56
Aside from the spin placed on it by certain posters and the opinion article, it looks like the purpose of the bill is to punish those who are in the wrong restroom, regardless of them being "trans" or not.
It's not discriminating, if it were written as such to where it only targeted transsexuals, then you'd have a point, but it isn't.
However as I've said many times: they should just improve privacy in restrooms and stop segregating them based on sex and or gender entirely.
It's specifically discriminatory toward trans because they're basing gender solely on genitals and their caricature perception of men in drag.
I don't see anyone basing gender at all. Well unless you mean people in this thread, because then who cares?
The wording of the bill is such. They use "biological" gender. Someone also brought up the people who carry xxy chromosomes. The law is specifically discriminatory to anyone who doesn't fall squarely within the gender norms of male and female exclusively.
You know as well as anyone that laws have no hope of passing with the Herman Cain approach, but don't think that because the law doesn't have a bunch of redneck words that it isn't driven by exactly the same line of narrow thought.
But it isn't, and again we aren't talking about gender, but about sex.
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-02-09 13:31:14
the purpose of the bill is to punish those who are in the wrong restroom Why?
And don't give me that cop-out "comfort" excuse again. Public toilets are not places of comfort, first off, and the best way to feel uncomfortable using them is to be a man in the men's room using an unpartitioned urinal, not a woman in the men's room using a locked stall.
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By Jetackuu 2015-02-09 13:33:32
the purpose of the bill is to punish those who are in the wrong restroom Why?
And don't give me that cop-out "comfort" excuse again. Public toilets are not places of comfort, first off, and the best way to feel uncomfortable using them is to be a man in the men's room using an unpartitioned urinal, not a woman in the men's room using a locked stall.
I know it's already illegal here to be in the wrong restroom, I doubt the civil fines are applicable though. I'm sure Florida had a similar law on the books and they're just increasing it to have civil penalties applicable.
As for "why?" couldn't tell you, I still think segregated rest rooms are silly.
By fonewear 2015-02-09 13:47:24
And so the US social progress continues to lag behind Canada's, Netherlands and many other Euro countries, and try to limit the freedoms and fail to protect the freedoms of minority groups whose lifestyles "christian" America's 2000 year old book disagrees with. Not because the book disagree's with it, because "good christians" every day do ***against the bible and think nothing of it, such as harbor and express fear and hatred toward different sexual orientations and people of atypical gender identities. What happened in the 1200s to people born as hermaphrodites I wonder. Where is their passages in the bible? The thing is it's not even religious it's just insecurity, lack of understanding, ignorance, and the things that come with that. Fear, desire for control, hatred, and brutal acts whether through social or violent channels. And the religious band wagon is only one way to get there, because it's seen as morally right. Why, I have no idea more atrocities have been committed in the name of religion than pretty much anything else. Admittingly a few bad apples can spoil the entire barrel but when it comes to things like hate and intolerance to LGBT things it's more like most the barrel is bad apples. But go 'Murica, land of the free. Unless you're gay. Or Trans. We don't want you here. Oh, and if you're black, or Mexican, or Asian. Or a woman. And if you're a white cis male, don't expect any help. Things are good enough for you. Really it seems like America finds ways to hate anyone. It ever being a mix pot of culture was an optimistic take that I find hard to believe was ever reality. Supposedly we've made progress from then. Yet for being the leader of the free world, independent actors have done surveys and studies showing we're not even the most free country, we have one of the shittiest health care systems for any leading nation, and we lag far behind in social progressiveness and laws that protect minorities. Is the US all bad?
Well if you consider the fact we manipulate foreign governments and make sure we have that power and control through our 2x as big as any other nation military budget, you'd think so. But I like living here, I just wouldn't be doing my part if i didn't see it's flaws, and actually do at least something to better it here, even if it's just raising awareness at what we royally suck at.
Until people learn that their lazy effort at making the world the place they want to be will only cause pain and evil, instead of trying to understand and better the world they live in for all people who can contribute to the forwarding of mankind as a species, the world will stay a crippled place full of war and worse.
I don't even...
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By fonewear 2015-02-09 14:04:56
I'm still not sure what to think of this. I am never for a loss of words either.
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2015-02-09 14:12:01
How about a compromise: When science produces a credible study with clear parameters and an adequate sample size indicating transexualism is anything more than autogynephilia, we can discuss exceptions for the gendered bathroom laws.
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By fonewear 2015-02-09 14:14:15
I did minor in transgender studies. But that was just to get out of an English literature class...
By fonewear 2015-02-09 14:18:58
This is dangerous I might learn something.
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2015-02-09 14:36:13
Blanchard's papers were peer-reviewed. The stray criticism of him was not.
Even if you want to throw out everything Blanchard has ever done, the few studies trying to cite a biological difference in trans* brains are lacking in criteria, sample size, and results. There's not a single study that carries weight indicating trans* are anything but mentally ill.
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2015-02-09 14:41:16
In this case, it's used to mean 'published in a peer-reviewed journal'. That context carries a bit more weight than casual criticism of someone that an entire fringe group would like to burn at the stake.
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-02-09 14:46:54
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »transexualism is anything more than autogynephilia That's not even the claim made by the hack who invented the word.
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2015-02-09 14:48:45
Well, you're a man of science. Let's see some evidence in favor of a biological cause. If it's a mental problem as opposed to a physical one, any argument in favor of special treatment falls apart. Being cat-kin doesn't entitle one to urinate in public sandboxes.
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-02-09 14:51:39
Do you happen to know what unfalsifiable claims are? Or how about the No True Scotsman fallacy?
Better yet, the nonsense you're trying to cite disregards a substantial proportion of MTF and completely ignores the existence of FTM. The fact you're clinging to it suggests that it's the first random thing that appeared in your google search of "scientific proof against ***."
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2015-02-09 14:55:42
Blanchard's autogynephilia theory is nothing approaching proof, it's a theory. Does it cover every case, accurately, without fail? Absolutely not. Is it completely off base and useless? Possibly.
It's still quite a bit more solid than anything that's been touted as a biological component to transexuality, though. Interesting to consider, since there are a large amount of people who would be thrilled to find a study indicating it's biological, while political correctness demands that we ignore any theory rooted in mental illness.
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By Blazed1979 2015-02-09 14:58:11
my bedroom.
or in the car..
actually anywhere, public toilet included.
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-02-09 15:00:40
If I cook the numbers and present a theory that, say, black men predominantly attracted to white women are displaying signs of mental illness, does that mean I can outlaw inter-racial marriage again? This is very important to me because it in no way affects my life.
We're talking about pissing in a hole. Explain to me why it matters what set of genitals you do it from in a certain room. I'm not concerned with arguing why someone is transgendered, that's well outside the scope of this law. Again, we are discussing a law that brings criminal charges against people. We are talking about something that encroaches on someone's freedom. Explain to me why it is necessary and right.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-02-09 15:02:06
Not biological, not mental. So a lifestyle then or what?
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-02-09 15:02:25
my bedroom.
or in the car..
actually anywhere, public toilet included. Gross gross gross gross!!
I'd rather do it in the middle of the restaurant/dancefloor/whatever than in those god forsaken places!
By Jetackuu 2015-02-09 15:03:22
If I cook the numbers and present a theory that, say, black men predominantly attracted to white women are displaying signs of mental illness, does that mean I can outlaw inter-racial marriage again? This is very important to me because it in no way affects my life.
We're talking about pissing in a hole. Explain to me why it matters what set of genitals you do it from in a certain room. I'm not concerned with arguing why someone is transgendered, that's well outside the scope of this law. Again, we are discussing a law that brings criminal charges against people. We are talking about something that encroaches on someone's freedom. Explain to me why it is necessary and right.
Comparing unlike things, in your scenario it would be discriminating against people for no good reason.
What you're proposing is that we give a group of people special treatment, when there's no evidence that they deserve any.
These are unlike things, despite what you believe.
I'll spell it out for you though: Your claim is that Transgendered people deserve special treatment/protection, the question others are proposing: is why do they deserve special treatment and or protection?
florida_bill_would_imprison_trans_people_for_using_public_bathrooms Slate
Quote: Gay marriage has been legal in Florida for a month now, and at this point, even the state’s hardcore conservatives seem increasingly resigned to the fact that marriage equality is here to stay. Accordingly, Florida’s more bigoted legislators have decided to turn their ire toward another maligned, disfavored minority—trans people—by proposing one of the most viciously sadistic, hypocritical bills the legislature has ever considered.
The basic purpose of the bill is quite simple: to forbid trans people from using the public bathroom that matches their true gender. According to the bill’s text, any trans person who enters a “single-sex public facility” that doesn’t match their “biological sex” is guilty of a first-degree misdemeanor. A “single-sex public facility” includes bathrooms “maintained by an owner of public accommodations, a school, or a place of employment”—basically, any public bathroom in the entire state. Any trans person who violates the act could be sentenced to one year in prison.
It gets much, much worse. Any non-trans person who discovers a trans person using a bathroom that doesn’t align with their “biological sex” would be permitted to sue that trans person under the act. (If sued successfully, the trans person would have to pay their accuser’s attorney fees.) And, in a final turn of the screw, an “owner of public accommodations, a school, or a place of employment” who allows a trans person to use the bathroom of their true gender is liable for a civil suit. In other words, if a store owner does not actively prevent trans people from using her bathrooms, she can be sued by other customers. And of course, if the trans-friendly store owner is found to have allowed a trans person to use the bathroom, she’ll not only have to pay damages to disgruntled customers—she’ll also have to pay their attorney’s fees.
The obvious intent of this bill is to humiliate trans people by opening them up to criminal and civil liability merely for performing the most basic of bodily functions. Trans people already face harassment, discrimination, and sometimes violence while attempting to use the bathroom. This bill would effectively give anti-trans harassers the state’s blessing, while providing them a new avenue through which to shame trans Floridians—the court system. Many trans people are already anxious about using public bathrooms; some are afraid to leave their homes given the risk of verbal and physical abuse they face in public facilities. With this bill, the state would effectively legalize anti-trans harassment, sending a resounding message to trans people that they are not welcome in public life.
But perhaps the galling component of the bill is its astonishing interference into private businesses. For years, conservatives have been complaining that LGBT non-discrimination ordinances impede the liberty of business owners. These businesses, conservatives argue, should have the freedom to conduct their affairs however they so choose—even if that means kicking out gay customers who want to buy their products. With the tables turned, however, Florida’s right-wing legislators have changed their tune, arguing that private business owners should be forbidden from letting trans customers use their bathrooms. This intrusion into the autonomy of businesses is as hideously hypocritical as it is unsurprising. Most conservatives are only willing to defend business owners’ rights so long as they’re exercising their right to discriminate against LGBTQ people. When businesses wish to tolerate LGBTQ customers, conservatives have no problem passing a law restricting their liberty.
It is probably too soon to tell whether Florida’s bill will pass—though given this legislature’s track record, any bill designed to demean a sexual minority has fair odds of becoming law. Either way, the mere existence of such a mean-spirited bill sends a blunt message to the state’s trans community that they are not welcome here. It was probably inevitable that, once the marriage equality debate settled down, those who dedicate their lives to promoting hatred would set their sights on trans people. But the maliciousness and celerity with which Florida’s legislators have zeroed in on the trans community suggests the next battle for LGBTQ rights will be a brutal one.
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