Jetackuu said: »
Again: disagreement, on several points.
FL Bill Would Imprison TSs For Using Bathrooms
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FL Bill Would Imprison TSs for Using Bathrooms
*** it, then. You don't want to have a conversation, much less a debate, so just go ahead and talk to whatever nearby wall is listening. I'd google you a trophy so you can feel like you won but I'm all out of *** to give today. YouTube Video Placeholder Shiva.Onorgul said: » Jetackuu said: » Again: disagreement, on several points. Like you wanted to do anything but *** this entire time, good laugh though. Is that that *** it I'm tired of arguing fallacy ?
Argumentum ad nauseam or argument from repetition or argumentum ad infinitum is an argument made repeatedly (possibly by different people) until nobody cares to discuss it any more. This may sometimes, but not always, be a form of proof by assertion. That describes every thread ever created ! Normally by page 9!!
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I want a fallacy named after me.
Fonewear fallacy mentions Huff Post, Hillary, sweater puppies,or something so off the wall it makes the argument pointless !
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fonewear said: » Is that that *** it I'm tired of arguing fallacy ? That's all I'm here for: to exchange data and increase what I know. Failing to provide evidence and simply being contrary is non-conducive to that process. Confirmation bias allows everyone who argues with me to imagine that I never change my opinion in light of new data or whatever other hyperbolic claim they wish to level, but reality begs to differ. And, of course, denying reality causes "great harm." To the space-time continuum or something. I don't know. Shiva.Onorgul said: » Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: » I have a ***, my chromosomes are XY, why would you change it to F on my passport just because I dress and act like a girl? Just why? If someone is trans but doesn't look like the gender he/she transitioned to, I don't see the need to put what gender he/she is supposed to look like. Other than not wanting to hurt the person. I'm not saying we should hurt them, I'm just saying that at this point we're just trying to be nice and call people what they aren't and never will be/look like. Of course, this kind of information can be used by people who hate them to make fun of them and so on, but for the sake of being neutral, it's not normal to put F on the passport of someone who transitioned if they look as much of a woman as I do. Just trying to be objective/neutral. Being neutral that is no fun !
Sounds like something Sweden would do. Rather be proven wrong than have no opinion at all...
I "have to" be neutral as I agree with some of the things said against the trans movement while still thinking we need to respect and deal with people who have this mental illness in a proper way.
It's a really shitty topic and the worst is that it's not even about hating trans people themselves, but what some of them do and represent. Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: » If someone is trans but doesn't look like the gender he/she transitioned to, I don't see the need to put what gender he/she is supposed to look like. The scientific part of me says to subject them to the Turing test, but rather than trying to prove they're human in a 5-minute conversation, try to prove they're male/female. It sounds slightly cruel, but anyone who has ever had to apply for welfare or a house loan has gone through a similar level of soul-crushing, bureaucratic hell. It almost makes me want to petition for a T or N/A or something in the sex category on such things, but that really singles a person out. Facebook has something like 50 gender options now (seriously... I mean, seriously?), but I doubt many or any of us have encountered anyone using them. I have a reasonable chance and haven't yet, though I have found a couple FTM folks on Grindr so it's not like they don't exist nor are they trying to entrap people, especially since Grindr is a hook-up app. Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: » the worst is that it's not even about hating trans people themselves, but what some of them do and represent. If the law makes it criminal to avoid humiliating yourself (and I'd really like to hope that non-passing transgender folks are self-aware enough to know they're not passing), that's pretty *** up. Shiva.Onorgul said: » You're clinging to faulty data there, but at least you've finally revealed your hand. All those lovely facts that people like to state about how many women get sexually assaulted have been consistently proved to be exaggerations. Moreover, the overwhelming majority of sexual assault, which incidentally appears to be perpetuated against men with similar frequency to women, is done by someone known to the victim. We have this culture that fears stranger danger, but ask any rape victim counselor or child sex abuse counselor and they'll set the record straight on who commits these crimes. ...inquiry into racial trends Their mental status and comfort? The comfort they gain is likely at the expense of cisgender people in the same room, and I feel obligated to repeat the cisgender people didn't choose to put themselves in that situation. You're blatantly choosing the comfort of few over the comfort of many if comfort is all that's relevant. The relative danger of men's rooms compared to female? That's legislatively labeling men as criminals, and not that much better than your race example. The amount of controversy over this topic makes it quite clear that many people still do feel uncomfortable sharing a restroom with someone of the opposite biological sex. You may be able to dismiss that as irrational and childish, and I'm not necessarily disagreeing. I just can't see a transgender being that picky over choice of restroom as any less irrational and childish. The way you put it, everyone is there to do their business and leave, if it's so marginal then why err with the trans? I guess much like the toilet seat up/down formula, if over 55% of the people using the men toilets choose to use said toilets with people who have a penis and only them, then people should just follow this "rule of convenience".
Same goes for the women toilets. Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: » The way you put it, everyone is there to do their business and leave, if it's so marginal then why err with the trans? With someone who can pass as their declared gender, forcing them into the room that looks wrong for them is inviting trouble, and that's true of either gender. Any cursory internet search can find videos of women beating the ***out of other people and I'd wager they're more likely to cause non-violent trouble, too, like making needless 911 calls or making a scene in the middle of a restaurant. For someone who can't pass, that's where the sticking point is. If I knew such a person and knew we'd be in a situation like this, I'd strongly recommend trying to appear androgynous and just sucking it up to use the room assigned to their biological sex. Don't doubt for a second that they wouldn't get some looks, anyhow. A cisgender heterosexual man can put make-up on and the second someone notices it, heaven help him. Women can at least dress in a masculine way without attracting much undue attention. The reason I keep bringing up race is because we did used to have separate bathrooms. And when that was integrated, you can be sure that there were a lot of people saying, "I dunno, I'm not comfortable with a negro in the same room when I'm using the toilet." We don't legislate for people's comfort and we certainly shouldn't make it a criminal offense to do something absolutely harmless. People want to pretend this isn't about transgender but simply about making sure the men don't go in the women's room. Well, really, the only way that is going to happen, anyhow, is if the men's room is broken. If a woman went into the men's room (maybe because she's sensible and doesn't want to wait half a damned hour for the women in the women's room to stop touching up their make-up and gossiping in the heady fumes of human excrement -- seriously, women are gross), I really can't see men making much of a fuss. Call it women's privilege or male sensibility or whatever. But a man in a dress... well, go figure why Blanchard's research and McHugh's opinions focused exclusively on men. That kind of skew says a lot about both the researchers and the culture they live in. So, really, even though I don't have any investment in this fight on its surface, I neither appreciate unnecessary legislation and additions to the criminal code nor do I like the strong undercurrent of demanding that men gender-conform or suffer the dire consequences. It's a culture war... again... and I'm sick of this ***. You guys reach a final solution yet?
I reached a final solution, which amounted to nothing more than flushing excrement down the turlet.
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: » You guys reach a final solution yet? 1 toilet for all. Before entering the toilet a blindfold is given to you. That way you can't tell which alien probed your anus.
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Blazed1979 said: » Leviathan.Chaosx said: » You guys reach a final solution yet? 1 toilet for all. Before entering the toilet a blindfold is given to you. That way you can't tell which alien probed your anus. I'm changing the name to Urectum. Because you wrecked'em bathrooms.
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Related:
Quote: A transgender woman was convicted Friday of sexually assaulting another woman nearly a decade ago, when she still identified as a man. Harold Seymore, 31, was born intersex and, in 2005, was arrested for sexually assaulting a schoolteacher from Chicago who had been vacationing in South Beach, Florida, the Miami Herald reported. She was sentenced to 15 years in prison but will likely serve fewer than four more years because of time already served. The case of Seymore, who transitioned from male to female between 2005 and last week's court appearance, called attention to the treatment of transgender individuals within the U.S. prison system. Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Teresa Mary Pooler reportedly referred to her as “Miss Seymore” throughout the four-day trial. Despite occasional slip-ups, the defense attorneys stuck with female pronouns, and prosecutors used the neutral term “defendant,” according to the Florida newspaper. Her trial had been repeatedly postponed because judges thought her mental state had deteriorated to the point where she could not help her attorneys put together a defense, according to the Miami Herald. All Department of Corrections (DOC) inmates who are identified with a diagnosis of gender dysphoria are evaluated by the medical and mental health departments to determine their classification as either male or female. While the DOC would not say whether Seymore would be housed with men or women, a spokesman told Yahoo News, “Once an inmate is classified as a male or female, they are assigned to the appropriate DOC facility.” The DOC said it does not segregate inmates based upon their designation of transgender or intersex. The only time an inmate’s housing will change after that point is if the individual doesn’t feel safe. Seymore was always housed in single-person cells away from the general population in Miami-Dade jails, according to the Miami Herald. “Twenty-three hours a day in solitary,” Seymore told the Florida newspaper. “I got the yard by myself. I have to take showers by myself.” Seymore, who has yet to adopt a female first name, will be transferred to a state prison, but it was not immediately clear where she will be housed. Michael Silverman, executive director of the Transgender Legal Defense & Education Fund in New York, says the No. 1 concern for transgender women in prison is violence, including sexual violence. “Most transgender women are housed according to their sex assigned at birth or whether they have had genital reassignment surgery as part of transition,” Silverman said in an interview with Yahoo News. “Most transgender individuals have not had that kind of surgery for a host of reasons. For many, it’s not something they need for gender dysphoria.” According to a study of California prisons from 2009, transgender women in men’s prisons are 13 times more likely to be sexually abused than other inmates. In accordance with the Prison Rape Elimination Act of 2003, the DOC screens all transgender inmates for their risk of sexual victimization twice a year. Sometimes to offset this risk, transgender inmates are placed in protective custody, which usually involves a degree of solitary confinement. “This is nothing more than long-term isolation,” Silverman said, “which can be incredibly psychologically damaging and often results in trans prisoners having less access to many of the privileges that are afforded prisoners in the general population.” Some jurisdictions have special facilities for transgender individuals to voluntarily separate themselves from the general prison population.
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: » Related: Quote: A transgender woman was convicted Friday of sexually assaulting another woman nearly a decade ago, when she still identified as a man. Harold Seymore, 31, was born intersex and, in 2005, was arrested for sexually assaulting a schoolteacher from Chicago who had been vacationing in South Beach, Florida, the Miami Herald reported. She was sentenced to 15 years in prison but will likely serve fewer than four more years because of time already served. The case of Seymore, who transitioned from male to female between 2005 and last week's court appearance, called attention to the treatment of transgender individuals within the U.S. prison system. Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Teresa Mary Pooler reportedly referred to her as “Miss Seymore” throughout the four-day trial. Despite occasional slip-ups, the defense attorneys stuck with female pronouns, and prosecutors used the neutral term “defendant,” according to the Florida newspaper. Her trial had been repeatedly postponed because judges thought her mental state had deteriorated to the point where she could not help her attorneys put together a defense, according to the Miami Herald. All Department of Corrections (DOC) inmates who are identified with a diagnosis of gender dysphoria are evaluated by the medical and mental health departments to determine their classification as either male or female. While the DOC would not say whether Seymore would be housed with men or women, a spokesman told Yahoo News, “Once an inmate is classified as a male or female, they are assigned to the appropriate DOC facility.” The DOC said it does not segregate inmates based upon their designation of transgender or intersex. The only time an inmate’s housing will change after that point is if the individual doesn’t feel safe. Seymore was always housed in single-person cells away from the general population in Miami-Dade jails, according to the Miami Herald. “Twenty-three hours a day in solitary,” Seymore told the Florida newspaper. “I got the yard by myself. I have to take showers by myself.” Seymore, who has yet to adopt a female first name, will be transferred to a state prison, but it was not immediately clear where she will be housed. Michael Silverman, executive director of the Transgender Legal Defense & Education Fund in New York, says the No. 1 concern for transgender women in prison is violence, including sexual violence. “Most transgender women are housed according to their sex assigned at birth or whether they have had genital reassignment surgery as part of transition,” Silverman said in an interview with Yahoo News. “Most transgender individuals have not had that kind of surgery for a host of reasons. For many, it’s not something they need for gender dysphoria.” According to a study of California prisons from 2009, transgender women in men’s prisons are 13 times more likely to be sexually abused than other inmates. In accordance with the Prison Rape Elimination Act of 2003, the DOC screens all transgender inmates for their risk of sexual victimization twice a year. Sometimes to offset this risk, transgender inmates are placed in protective custody, which usually involves a degree of solitary confinement. “This is nothing more than long-term isolation,” Silverman said, “which can be incredibly psychologically damaging and often results in trans prisoners having less access to many of the privileges that are afforded prisoners in the general population.” Some jurisdictions have special facilities for transgender individuals to voluntarily separate themselves from the general prison population. Either make some transgender prisons only or accept the way the law deals with such cases, which is definitely the lesser of two evils. And lets not all be bigots and assume that just because someone identifies as a female means they are attracted to males. Seymore could still be attracted to women, and given their sexual assault record, I would say it is most likely. Boohoo they have to be in isolation because they are 13 times more likely to be raped. How much more likely is Seymore to rape a female prisoner in a female prison?! Blazed1979 said: » Boohoo they have to be in isolation because they are 13 times more likely to be raped. I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony. Grow apple tree and honey bee and fill it full of prison rape act of 2003.
Quote: With body dysmorphic disorder, an often socially crippling condition, the individual is consumed by the assumption "I'm ugly." These disorders occur in subjects who have come to believe that some of their psycho-social conflicts or problems will be resolved if they can change the way that they appear to others. Such ideas work like ruling passions in their subjects' minds and tend to be accompanied by a solipsistic argument. For the transgendered, this argument holds that one's feeling of "gender" is a conscious, subjective sense that, being in one's mind, cannot be questioned by others. The individual often seeks not just society's tolerance of this "personal truth" but affirmation of it. Here rests the support for "transgender equality," the demands for government payment for medical and surgical treatments, and for access to all sex-based public roles and privileges. link Why are we going out of our way to cater to these people? This is akin to setting a place at the table for your child's imaginary friend when they're full grown adults. This is so far beyond tolerance, its forced affirmation of the minority. It's the new "fairness". Imaginary friends are people too!
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With the economy the way it is... I can only afford an imaginary girlfriend !
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: » This is so far beyond tolerance, its forced affirmation of the minority. It's the new "fairness". b.) You're citing someone known for hysterical pandering. What he claims and what is true are separate beasts. And while we're at it... c.) Psych treatment frequently does involve permitting undesirable behaviors as full suppression causes worse consequences. Shiva.Onorgul said: » Ragnarok.Nausi said: » This is so far beyond tolerance, its forced affirmation of the minority. It's the new "fairness". b.) You're citing someone known for hysterical pandering. What he claims and what is true are separate beasts. And while we're at it... c.) Psych treatment frequently does involve permitting undesirable behaviors as full suppression causes worse consequences. And there you go, arguing against an argument no one is making. No one is arguing that we ban or prohibit SRS or HRS (not even the author of the article I posted). All things considered, consenting adults, pursuit of happiness, etc. What is being argued by the trans lobby, is that the rest of us "cisgender" affirm the trans lifestyle by allowing transgender people to access whatever bathroom they want to. Because by not affirming their particular gender state, we are... well... hurting their feelings? I guess? I mean has anyone provided real meat and potatoes as to why we need to do this? |
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