FL Bill Would Imprison TSs For Using Bathrooms

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FL Bill Would Imprison TSs for Using Bathrooms
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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2015-02-09 16:19:14
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Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Where does that happen? The process of getting approved for SRS or even hormone therapy is neither brief nor easy (unless one is really rich, I suppose).
https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2013/04/05/mtv-true-life-transgender-teens-change-their-minds-as-adults/

http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=134094.35;imode

http://thegavoice.com/wpath-announces-new-standards-of-care-for-transgender-and-gender-nonconforming-people/

WPATH said:
Some key revisions:

• Psychotherapy is no longer a requirement to receive hormones and surgery, although it is suggested.

“It used to be a minimum amount of psychotherapy was needed. An assessment is still required but that can be done by the prescribing hormone provider,” Bockting explained.
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-02-09 16:19:20
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Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Jetackuu said: »
I don't care about ***, or what bathroom they use, it is none of my concern.
You don't read very well (big shock).

You clearly do care because you're deeply invested in why transgender people exist. I want to know why.
YOU are the only one who is obsessed with transgender people and other people's opinion about them.
I'm troubled by the fact this law exists because it's symptomatic of how the law is used to push agendas with no legitimate basis in law.

Aren't you one of those crazy folks who thinks that the government has too much power? Does that opinion evaporate when someone makes a law that doesn't affect you? I'll risk Godwin by digging up a famous poem if it'll help.
There are already laws about men trying to use the women's restroom and vice versa. Nothing new.

I've never said the government has too much power. If anything banks have a little too much power, but that's only because of the weakness of government to regulate and/or regulators not being punished for letting banks get away with fraud. Bailouts, etc. (not going into all of this as you are trying to deflect now)

Otherwise, me moving to Russia, China, Russia again, and finally Serbia because the U.S. government has too much power...? lol nope

If anything, it's because it has lost its will/ability to rule properly.
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 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-02-09 16:22:04
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Where does that happen? The process of getting approved for SRS or even hormone therapy is neither brief nor easy (unless one is really rich, I suppose).
https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2013/04/05/mtv-true-life-transgender-teens-change-their-minds-as-adults/

http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=134094.35;imode

http://thegavoice.com/wpath-announces-new-standards-of-care-for-transgender-and-gender-nonconforming-people/

WPATH said:
Some key revisions:

• Psychotherapy is no longer a requirement to receive hormones and surgery, although it is suggested.

“It used to be a minimum amount of psychotherapy was needed. An assessment is still required but that can be done by the prescribing hormone provider,” Bockting explained.
Thanks for that. Since this literally doesn't affect my life, it appears my data is out-of-date, so I appreciate the update.

Now how about the rest of what I asked.
 Valefor.Applebottoms
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By Valefor.Applebottoms 2015-02-09 16:23:46
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I was just using the bathroom at Target and a girl thought it was ok to "sexy talk" with someone while she was taking a piss.

I'd rather have a guy going to the bathroom next to me than dealing with that. Also, women are pigs when it comes to public bathrooms. Don't be fooled.
 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-02-09 16:24:24
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
(not going into all of this as you are trying to deflect now)
I'm not. My problem has been with enacting legislation that I see as illegitimate.

You've just pointed out that you think it is legitimate, if not far too little. We disagree. I'd ask you to explain why, but since it practically takes a gun to your head to get you to do silly things like that, I won't be holding my breath.

What you claim are deflections are me responding to others' deflections.
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By Blazed1979 2015-02-09 16:26:04
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Valefor.Applebottoms said: »
I was just using the bathroom at Target and a girl thought it was ok to "sexy talk" with someone while she was taking a piss.

I'd rather have a guy going to the bathroom next to me than dealing with that. Also, women are pigs when it comes to public bathrooms. Don't be fooled.
yes we keep hearing women tantalize us with such talk but we, men, never hear the details and good stuff.
You must break this female code of silence and expose your sisters! we want to know!
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By fonewear 2015-02-09 16:26:54
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Valefor.Applebottoms said: »
I was just using the bathroom at Target and a girl thought it was ok to "sexy talk" with someone while she was taking a piss.

I'd rather have a guy going to the bathroom next to me than dealing with that. Also, women are pigs when it comes to public bathrooms. Don't be fooled.

Women are pigs you need to read the Huff Post you will realize men are pigs.

Only reason to use a public restroom is you can pee on the seat and not have to clean it up !
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By Bloodrose 2015-02-09 16:28:44
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If men are pigs, and women are pigs, does that mean women get the good bacon?

Because everyone wants to eat a woman!
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By fonewear 2015-02-09 16:29:35
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Lest this become a discussion of "eating women" shall we proceed ?

I shouldn't drink and write bad things happen.
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By fonewear 2015-02-09 16:36:53
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Finally some sanity what was the topic again ?

Oh yea don't judge a book by it's cover unless that book is fifty shades of grey.
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By fonewear 2015-02-09 16:39:51
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Bottom line the law is dumb (if passed) we are a country of far too man laws.

Personal freedom only if the government can invade your privacy.
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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2015-02-09 16:46:38
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Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Thanks for that. Since this literally doesn't affect my life, it appears my data is out-of-date, so I appreciate the update.

Now how about the rest of what I asked.

Quote:
I'll repeat the question I keep asking, though: why does this matter? How does it affect you?

If someone wants to change their appearance, so what? If you're bankrolling it, then you have an investment, but that's not the case. It certainly sounds like you just want to control what someone does to their own bodies with their own money. Shall we make a law preventing cosmetic dentistry and buying cars worth more than $30,000, too?

It's a mental health issue that's affecting a growing portion of the country. While I have nothing against them living their life in their own way, I have an issue with mental health practice justifying people's illnesses based on feeling/political pressure. Were there science to support it, I would feel differently.

Over 25% of adults have seen a mental health worker in the last 2 years. These are professionals that are relevant to a huge amount of the population, causing a profound impact on many of their clients' lives through their interactions and/or prescriptions. They have a duty to treat their clients with the greatest degree of professionalism they can.

The transexual 'movement' is hindering that. A provider who doesn't prescribe the desired hormones will often be replaced by one who will, or outed to the media. It becomes a trial by public opinion, and as a result you have more and more providers willing to simply hand out what they're asked. It's easier to get a prescription for life-changing hormone therapy than it is to get a prescription for effective pain medication or low-dose/extended release amphetamine. The combined pressure of hormonal development resulting in teens and pre-teens taking drugs they have no business being on to increase their efficacy makes it that much dirtier of an issue.

When our medical care is being run by public opinion, rather than scientific fact, something has clearly started to go wrong. While I don't think we're going to start treating AIDS patients by subjecting them to sex with virgins, it is indeed a slippery slope.

Movements such as anti-vaxx are routed in public opinion, but immediately dismissed by doctors and professionals worldwide due to lack of evidence of negative effect. Why isn't this the case with transexuality? Simply, because feminist silencing tactics have grown powerful enough that anyone attempting to steer the direction back towards science will be demonized and tore down through trial by media. See: Blanchard, Paul McHugh, etc.
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 Valefor.Applebottoms
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By Valefor.Applebottoms 2015-02-09 16:49:25
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Blazed1979 said: »
Valefor.Applebottoms said: »
I was just using the bathroom at Target and a girl thought it was ok to "sexy talk" with someone while she was taking a piss.

I'd rather have a guy going to the bathroom next to me than dealing with that. Also, women are pigs when it comes to public bathrooms. Don't be fooled.
yes we keep hearing women tantalize us with such talk but we, men, never hear the details and good stuff.
You must break this female code of silence and expose your sisters! we want to know!
I was too busy trying to rush out of there, but the most I heard was a moan, an "are you taking it off right now?" And "how big is it...?".

All while she was grabbing some TP to use from what it sounded like. The sexiest.
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 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-02-09 17:02:42
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
it is indeed a slippery slope
Which is a fallacy. The slippery slope fallacy is one people love but doesn't play out.

Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Over 25% of adults have seen a mental health worker in the last 2 years.
Can I get a citation for this? I know enough people who've spoken to X, Y, or Z that the number doesn't bother me, but I want to see what the definition of "mental health worker" is.

Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
The transexual 'movement' is hindering that. A provider who doesn't prescribe the desired hormones will often be replaced by one who will, or outed to the media. It becomes a trial by public opinion, and as a result you have more and more providers willing to simply hand out what they're asked.
Again, going to ask for a citation here. Shopping around for a doctor who'll do what you want is standard practice, anyhow, and not without good basis. There are anti-vaccination doctors, after all, because stupid transcends degree.

But, really, if what you're saying is true, can you show some numbers. Best guess estimates, which are based on some very bad data (too little data and a lot of hypothetical speculation based from it, which the compiler freely admits) suggest maybe .3% of the US population are somewhere in the transgender spectrum. Many such people don't undergo surgery or even hormone therapy. If your concern is unnecessary treatments for, at most, a couple hundred thousand people, I'd hate for you to see the unnecessary treatments done to millions of people. Your head might explode.

Which is something of a distraction, I know. Simply that a problem is small doesn't mean it should be ignored. But, by the same token, when the house is on fire, that's not the time to worry about the money you're losing from a leaky tap in the bathroom.


Additionally, you complain that people who are transgender must be mentally ill (on the basis of no data) AND that they're clogging up the mental health system. You can't have it both ways. If they're mentally ill, they NEED to clog up the mental health system (with their incredibly small and largely irrelevant numbers). If they oughtn't be allowed to clog up the mental health system, then they mustn't actually be ill.

There's a reason I have trouble believing your sincerity.

And I have further difficulty believing your sincerity when you keep pointing at Blanchard. Even if we accept his hypothesis that a certain paraphilia may result in unnecessary treatment, it describes only a small part of the demographic in question. People criticizing and examining flaws in research is exactly what discredited Andrew Wakefield's link between MMR vaccine and autism. Can you not see the hypocrisy in demanding that science you agree with be held above scrutiny while science you disagree with be buried under a crossroads at midnight?


Oh, I will say that allowing teenagers to undergo hormone therapy is very dodgy ground. I'm withholding judgment until better data is available. But, again, a kid seeking that kind of treatment is going to be taking up a psychiatrist's time regardless of whether s/he gets the prescription, so I'm not seeing how this affects your life.
 Cerberus.Anjisnu
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By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2015-02-09 17:05:54
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Valefor.Applebottoms said: »
Blazed1979 said: »
Valefor.Applebottoms said: »
I was just using the bathroom at Target and a girl thought it was ok to "sexy talk" with someone while she was taking a piss.

I'd rather have a guy going to the bathroom next to me than dealing with that. Also, women are pigs when it comes to public bathrooms. Don't be fooled.
yes we keep hearing women tantalize us with such talk but we, men, never hear the details and good stuff.
You must break this female code of silence and expose your sisters! we want to know!
I was too busy trying to rush out of there, but the most I heard was a moan, an "are you taking it off right now?" And "how big is it...?".

All while she was grabbing some TP to use from what it sounded like. The sexiest.

i constantly TP while on the toilet and i weaponskill the first *** i see when i'm done
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By fonewear 2015-02-09 17:10:59
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I'd use a skill chain but I don't have a bathroom to attack !
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By Bloodrose 2015-02-09 17:12:05
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Cerberus.Anjisnu said: »
Valefor.Applebottoms said: »
Blazed1979 said: »
Valefor.Applebottoms said: »
I was just using the bathroom at Target and a girl thought it was ok to "sexy talk" with someone while she was taking a piss.

I'd rather have a guy going to the bathroom next to me than dealing with that. Also, women are pigs when it comes to public bathrooms. Don't be fooled.
yes we keep hearing women tantalize us with such talk but we, men, never hear the details and good stuff.
You must break this female code of silence and expose your sisters! we want to know!
I was too busy trying to rush out of there, but the most I heard was a moan, an "are you taking it off right now?" And "how big is it...?".

All while she was grabbing some TP to use from what it sounded like. The sexiest.

i constantly TP while on the toilet and i weaponskill the first *** i see when i'm done
"Anjisnu readies "Urinal Fists"
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By fonewear 2015-02-09 17:14:20
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I'd do a search of urinal fists but I'm scared of what the results would be...

Actually I probably should do that...
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2015-02-09 17:15:42
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Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
it is indeed a slippery slope
Which is a fallacy. The slippery slope fallacy is one people love but doesn't play out.
So, it's ok to base medical treatment on public opinion?

Quote:
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Over 25% of adults have seen a mental health worker in the last 2 years.
Can I get a citation for this? I know enough people who've spoken to X, Y, or Z that the number doesn't bother me, but I want to see what the definition of "mental health worker" is.
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/NewsRoom/PressReleases/tabid/446/ctl/ReadCustom%20Default/mid/1506/ArticleId/311/Default.aspx

Quote:
Again, going to ask for a citation here. Shopping around for a doctor who'll do what you want is standard practice, anyhow, and not without good basis. There are anti-vaccination doctors, after all, because stupid transcends degree.
The links above work fine. Numerous trans* forums will say that if you don't get the drugs you want to check elsewhere.

Quote:
But, really, if what you're saying is true, can you show some numbers.
...
There's a reason I have trouble believing your sincerity.
Whole lot of putting words in my mouth. I'm not concerned with the efficacy of the mental health system as a whole. Particularly in the USA, it's abysmal and there's little argument to the contrary. I'm concerned with what amounts to a nationwide decision being made based on public opinion instead of scientific data.

Quote:
And I have further difficulty believing your sincerity when you keep pointing at Blanchard. Even if we accept his hypothesis that a certain paraphilia may result in unnecessary treatment, it describes only a small part of the demographic in question. People criticizing and examining flaws in research is exactly what discredited Andrew Wakefield's link between MMR vaccine and autism. Can you not see the hypocrisy in demanding that science you agree with be held above scrutiny while science you disagree with be buried under a crossroads at midnight?
Scrutiny is one thing. People like Blanchard and McHugh are attacked solely because their data is contrary to what transexuals(and some gays) want to believe about themselves. Most of the attacks are not done via scientific scrutiny, but by arbitrary insult to reputation. (See the last page, where you used Blanchard's name as a silencing tactic toward Jet.)

Quote:
Oh, I will say that allowing teenagers to undergo hormone therapy is very dodgy ground. I'm withholding judgment until better data is available. But, again, a kid seeking that kind of treatment is going to be taking up a psychiatrist's time regardless of whether s/he gets the prescription, so I'm not seeing how this affects your life.
Mentioned earlier, not concerned with the medical system's efficacy. Concerned with medical decisions being made on public opinion.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-02-09 17:16:15
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Bloodrose said: »
Cerberus.Anjisnu said: »
Valefor.Applebottoms said: »
Blazed1979 said: »
Valefor.Applebottoms said: »
I was just using the bathroom at Target and a girl thought it was ok to "sexy talk" with someone while she was taking a piss.

I'd rather have a guy going to the bathroom next to me than dealing with that. Also, women are pigs when it comes to public bathrooms. Don't be fooled.
yes we keep hearing women tantalize us with such talk but we, men, never hear the details and good stuff.
You must break this female code of silence and expose your sisters! we want to know!
I was too busy trying to rush out of there, but the most I heard was a moan, an "are you taking it off right now?" And "how big is it...?".

All while she was grabbing some TP to use from what it sounded like. The sexiest.

i constantly TP while on the toilet and i weaponskill the first *** i see when i'm done
"Anjisnu readies "Urinal Fists"
*Random Stranger takes 400 damage.
*Random Stranger is now diseased!
 Cerberus.Anjisnu
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By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2015-02-09 17:21:46
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Bloodrose said: »
Cerberus.Anjisnu said: »
Valefor.Applebottoms said: »
Blazed1979 said: »
Valefor.Applebottoms said: »
I was just using the bathroom at Target and a girl thought it was ok to "sexy talk" with someone while she was taking a piss.

I'd rather have a guy going to the bathroom next to me than dealing with that. Also, women are pigs when it comes to public bathrooms. Don't be fooled.
yes we keep hearing women tantalize us with such talk but we, men, never hear the details and good stuff.
You must break this female code of silence and expose your sisters! we want to know!
I was too busy trying to rush out of there, but the most I heard was a moan, an "are you taking it off right now?" And "how big is it...?".

All while she was grabbing some TP to use from what it sounded like. The sexiest.

i constantly TP while on the toilet and i weaponskill the first *** i see when i'm done
"Anjisnu readies "Urinal Fists"
*Random Stranger takes 400 damage.
*Random Stranger is now diseased!
400 dmg... come on i know urinal fists is 8 hits are you saying my acc is undercapped!?
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By Bloodrose 2015-02-09 17:25:24
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It's a vitality based weapon skill...
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 Cerberus.Anjisnu
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By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2015-02-09 17:27:14
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well *** i need the merit ws after 3x chemo, a couple years dialysis, and diabetes i have no vit ;;
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 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-02-09 17:28:20
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
it is indeed a slippery slope
Which is a fallacy. The slippery slope fallacy is one people love but doesn't play out.
So, it's ok to base medical treatment on public opinion?
Not what I was saying. I was saying that stating something is a "slippery slope" is using a fallacy to claim something is true. Slippery slopes don't exist (except for, you know, the actual object that one may literally fall down). You can't use a fallacy to back up your argument: it invalidates it.

Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Numerous trans* forums will say that if you don't get the drugs you want to check elsewhere.
I'm curious why you know this.

Anyhow, again, this is standard practice with any doctor. I'm not following what you're saying. If I find out that my doctor won't vaccinate my kid, I'm damned well finding a new doctor.

Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
I'm concerned with what amounts to a nationwide decision being made based on public opinion instead of scientific data.
But the scientific data is largely incomplete and unreliable. You think it's better to base a decision on knowingly incomplete data?

But, wait... what decision are we talking about? The decision to allow a person to use their own money to alter their own body? What public policy decision is affecting your life in any discernible way?



Let's put this in a slightly different context. I've been following the body modification community for almost two decades now. There are people who will distort their bodies to extreme degrees, such as extending their earlobes to hang down to their shoulders, having their navels or little toes surgically removed, having silicone implants placed in their skin, any number of piercings and tattoos, and some really freaky stuff I don't even like thinking about. Obviously that latter one creeps me out, but it's being done with their own money and on their own time (and without even consulting a medical professional, so they're neither clogging up the system nor getting the help they may need).

So how can I say that someone shouldn't be allowed to pierce their nipples? What possible reason is there for me to have an opinion on their right to do that? I can say that I don't think pierced nipples look attractive, but that's just my opinion and only has value to those who care what I think, which is a small group at best.
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By fonewear 2015-02-09 17:30:08
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I'm all for pierced nipples!

One nation under God with liberty and pierced nipples for all !
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By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2015-02-09 17:30:54
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fonewear said: »
I'm all for pierced nipples!

One nation under God with pierced nipples for all !
you leave my pristine nipples out of this
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By fonewear 2015-02-09 17:31:38
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The internet has made me into things I couldn't imagine without it...Lord knows I can't find a real person to do the internet stuff...well maybe Lindsay Lohan.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-02-09 17:34:34
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Cerberus.Anjisnu said: »
well *** i need the merit ws after 3x chemo, a couple years dialysis, and diabetes i have no vit ;;
Eat some steamed crab?
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By fonewear 2015-02-09 17:35:14
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You are just one Red Lobster from being the best damn man you can be !
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By fonewear 2015-02-09 17:37:42
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Cerberus.Anjisnu said: »
well *** i need the merit ws after 3x chemo, a couple years dialysis, and diabetes i have no vit ;;
Eat some steamed crab?




HP +7
MP +7
Store TP +7
Strength +7
Dexterity +7
Agility +7
Vitality +7
Intelligence +7
Mind +7
Charisma +7
HP recovered while healing +7
MP recovered while healing +7
Attack +7
Accuracy +7
Defense +7
Evasion +7
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