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Mentally ill in Russia: you cannot drive
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-01-09 12:11:45
Edit: I would like to add, that even here, transgender (I'm sure there's a more appropriate term) is considered a mental disorder at so far as insurance is considered and we have many mental disorders that exclude people from driving. It's not like we're some bastion of modern thinking.
My car insurance rates dropped after I transitioned....
But this same logic is why the US military is one of the few remaining militaries that bar trans people from serving. Because gender dysphoria is still technically classified as a disorder. There is a large push to have the ban lifted.
Believe me, I understand the hypocrisy of that line of thought. I wasn't justifying it by any means, only pointing out how backwards it is to criticize Russia's policies when ours aren't much better.
By Ramyrez 2015-01-09 12:17:37
Edit: I would like to add, that even here, transgender (I'm sure there's a more appropriate term) is considered a mental disorder at so far as insurance is considered and we have many mental disorders that exclude people from driving. It's not like we're some bastion of modern thinking.
My car insurance rates dropped after I transitioned....
But this same logic is why the US military is one of the few remaining militaries that bar trans people from serving. Because gender dysphoria is still technically classified as a disorder. There is a large push to have the ban lifted.
Believe me, I understand the hypocrisy of that line of thought. I wasn't justifying it by any means, only pointing out how backwards it is to criticize Russia's policies when ours aren't much better.
I could be off base here, but is it not in some way beneficial to keep it classified as such? If it's classifieed as a psychological disorder (at least, assuming there is some degree of depression with it, as dysphoria indicates), I would think this would allow easier access to treatment and counseling as needed under insurance plans?
Again, could be wrong. Just throwing it out there.
Edit: Also, and as far as the military is concerned, if they screened their recruits better they'd have far fewer members based on their "disorders". How many troops do you think probably have borderline personality disorder or other personality disorders before they even enter the service, let alone once they're enlisted and have seen some degree of combat or deployment?
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-01-09 12:24:51
Classifying it as a mental disorder has a few benefits, mostly much needed treatments being covered by insurance. But, it's not a very good fit for gender dysphorea and does nothing to advance acceptance. It's a double edged sword.
By Ramyrez 2015-01-09 12:28:39
Classifying it as a mental disorder has a few benefits, mostly much needed treatments being covered by insurance. But, it's not a very good fit for gender dysphorea and does nothing to advance acceptance. It's a double edged sword.
Yeah. I guess I'm just trying to look at the bright side in some way.
Acceptance is probably still a very, very long way away for most of the U.S. population when it comes to the trans community though. To most people they're still the punchline of bad jokes. ;;
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-01-09 12:38:25
Russia says drivers must not have 'sex disorders'
Quote: Russia has listed transsexual and transgender people among those who will no longer qualify for driving licences.
Fetishism, exhibitionism and voyeurism are also included as "mental disorders" now barring people from driving.
The government says it is tightening medical controls for drivers because Russia has too many road accidents.
"Pathological" gambling and compulsive stealing are also on the list. Russian psychiatrists and human rights lawyers have condemned the move.
The announcement follows international complaints about Russian harassment of gay-rights activists. Ah well. Guess I'll just get a cab.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-01-09 12:38:29
Edit: I would like to add, that even here, transgender (I'm sure there's a more appropriate term) is considered a mental disorder at so far as insurance is considered and we have many mental disorders that exclude people from driving. It's not like we're some bastion of modern thinking.
My car insurance rates dropped after I transitioned....
But this same logic is why the US military is one of the few remaining militaries that bar trans people from serving. Because gender dysphoria is still technically classified as a disorder. There is a large push to have the ban lifted.
Believe me, I understand the hypocrisy of that line of thought. I wasn't justifying it by any means, only pointing out how backwards it is to criticize Russia's policies when ours aren't much better. I was thinking of going that route as a post, but eh, people are so hate filled it seems today. Just mentioning the L word got my post deleted. I guess that's a thing now.
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-01-09 12:53:11
Classifying it as a mental disorder has a few benefits, mostly much needed treatments being covered by insurance. But, it's not a very good fit for gender dysphorea and does nothing to advance acceptance. It's a double edged sword.
Yeah. I guess I'm just trying to look at the bright side in some way.
Acceptance is probably still a very, very long way away for most of the U.S. population when it comes to the trans community though. To most people they're still the punchline of bad jokes. ;;
If opinion poles and voting trends are to be believed (one can only hope) even the most socially conservative people's kids are much more centrist than their parents. I believe we're about a generation away from LGBT being at least in the same ballpark of equality and acceptance as minorities are. You (royal you) can make all kinds of cases for there being disparate treatment of minorities, but in 2 generations they've gone from Jim Crow to where they are now. Progress is inevitable, however slow, and LGBT have won some very important battles in the last decade.
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By Grumpy Cat 2015-01-09 13:04:25
So Putin can't drive now?
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2015-01-09 13:04:51
My car insurance rates dropped after I transitioned....
There is a "fifteen minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance...." followed by a scissor snip sound effect
joke in there that I probably shouldn't make but did already....
and quick show of hands anyone else want to turn this stupid thread into "Ask Ginny".... which would include perhaps two thoughtful questions about transitioning followed by nine pages of homophobia, cave man level stupidity and bad jokes?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-01-09 13:05:27
So Putin can't drive now? If we are going to go that route, then nobody can drive, ever.
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By Ramyrez 2015-01-09 13:05:36
True enough. But the "T"s have some rather specific challenges that the "LGB"s don't quite as much.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-01-09 13:06:28
and quick show of hands anyone else want to turn this stupid thread into "Ask Ginny".... which would include perhaps two thoughtful questions about transitioning followed by nine pages of homophobia, cave man level stupidity and bad jokes? I'll raise my hand if you want to include fascism into play somewhere in there.
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-01-09 13:08:08
True enough. But the "T"s have some rather specific challenges that the "LGB"s don't quite as much.
Absolutely, but only because they don't fit into our archaic standards of sexuality and gender. Sexuality is a spectrum, young people understand that, even if they don't understand things outside of gender archetypes.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-01-09 13:10:36
Classifying it as a mental disorder has a few benefits, mostly much needed treatments being covered by insurance. But, it's not a very good fit for gender dysphorea and does nothing to advance acceptance. It's a double edged sword.
Yeah. I guess I'm just trying to look at the bright side in some way.
Acceptance is probably still a very, very long way away for most of the U.S. population when it comes to the trans community though. To most people they're still the punchline of bad jokes. ;;
If opinion poles and voting trends are to be believed (one can only hope) even the most socially conservative people's kids are much more centrist than their parents. I believe we're about a generation away from LGBT being at least in the same ballpark of equality and acceptance as minorities are. You (royal you) can make all kinds of cases for there being disparate treatment of minorities, but in 2 generations they've gone from Jim Crow to where they are now. Progress is inevitable, however slow, and LGBT have won some very important battles in the last decade.
How I hope to look back on all this if I make it to old age:
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By Ramyrez 2015-01-09 13:21:52
True enough. But the "T"s have some rather specific challenges that the "LGB"s don't quite as much.
Absolutely, but only because they don't fit into our archaic standards of sexuality and gender. Sexuality is a spectrum, young people understand that, even if they don't understand things outside of gender archetypes.
Like I said; "just" need to get past all the people who see them as a punchline to a joke, all the tightwads who think they're all fakers trying to prey on others, and all the bros out there who see them as out there at clubs trying to "trick" them.
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2015-01-09 13:42:54
I'll raise my hand if you want to include fascism into play somewhere in there.
I have a weird "uncle" type person that used to play that game with us..... harsh german accent, pin the kids down, ask them questions and then no matter what they answered he slapped them around and told them they were lying...
I can probably find his number for you...
By Ramyrez 2015-01-09 14:10:36
I'll raise my hand if you want to include fascism into play somewhere in there.
I have a weird "uncle" type person that used to play that game with us..... harsh german accent, pin the kids down, ask them questions and then no matter what they answered he slapped them around and told them they were lying...
I can probably find his number for you...
Yeah...
Yeah.
That got a little dark.
Fenrir.Ginny
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By Fenrir.Ginny 2015-01-09 16:22:15
My car insurance rates dropped after I transitioned....
There is a "fifteen minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance...." followed by a scissor snip sound effect
joke in there that I probably shouldn't make but did already....
and quick show of hands anyone else want to turn this stupid thread into "Ask Ginny".... which would include perhaps two thoughtful questions about transitioning followed by nine pages of homophobia, cave man level stupidity and bad jokes?
I am not opposed to answering questions.
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-01-09 16:23:20
I am not opposed to answering questions. What is your credit card info?
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By Jetackuu 2015-01-09 16:26:42
Classifying it as a mental disorder has a few benefits, mostly much needed treatments being covered by insurance. But, it's not a very good fit for gender dysphorea and does nothing to advance acceptance. It's a double edged sword. How exactly is it not a good fit?
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-01-09 16:32:28
Classifying it as a mental disorder has a few benefits, mostly much needed treatments being covered by insurance. But, it's not a very good fit for gender dysphorea and does nothing to advance acceptance. It's a double edged sword. How exactly is it not a good fit?
Because it's less about something being wrong with their brain and more about it just being in the wrong body. Gender Dysphorea is being grouped in with BIID and personality disorders, which just isn't a good fit. Trans people have functional gender identities, they just don't match their physical gender.
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By Fenrir.Ginny 2015-01-09 16:40:14
I am not opposed to answering questions. What is your credit card info?
Fascist!
Classifying it as a mental disorder has a few benefits, mostly much needed treatments being covered by insurance. But, it's not a very good fit for gender dysphorea and does nothing to advance acceptance. It's a double edged sword. How exactly is it not a good fit?
Because more and more studies are showing that gender dysphoria is not quite a mental disorder. Studies are showing many MtF (Male to Female) trans individuals have nearly identical brain structure to cisgender women. And theories are suggesting the cause is due to hormonal developments while in the womb. So, it's less in the field of psychology and genetics and moving more towards the field of endocrinology.
However, the listing of it as a disorder is a technicality, only to ensure insurance coverage, even the DSM-V committee said as much when continuing to list it there. Under the current WPATH Standards of Care, treatments are still heavily tied to the DSM, as many doctors still require a therapist's evaluation to start hormone replacement therapy, and a psychologist's evaluation for surgery. We would need a complete overhaul of the system and Standards before we could fully declassify it without jeopardizing coverage.
And even then, some form of therapy while doing this is highly recommended. Transition is not something to be undertaken lightly.
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-01-09 17:28:00
I am not opposed to answering questions.
The only question I really have is whether or not you see GRS in your future. I know a lot of people transition without planning to have the surgery ever. It's not a cheap route, obviously, so I can understand money being a problem, but I've heard from a few people that it's not even something they necessarily want.
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By Fenrir.Ginny 2015-01-09 18:09:42
The only question I really have is whether or not you see GRS in your future. I know a lot of people transition without planning to have the surgery ever. It's not a cheap route, obviously, so I can understand money being a problem, but I've heard from a few people that it's not even something they necessarily want.
It is something I definitely want, and am working toward. It's a pretty big financial hurdle, but I'm getting there. My current employer does cover it. I still haven't even decided which surgeon I want to go with.
I know quite a few other trans women that do not intend to have surgery, some who are apathetic either way, and others who settled for an orchiectomy (Significantly cheaper, and removes the primary source of testosterone, but can potentially leave scarring that can cause complications with GRS later on).
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By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2015-01-09 18:18:39
i've always wondered if hormonal therapy is fast like wake up one morning and "holy ***i got boobies" or if its 3 years later and "gdi still an A cup"
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By Fenrir.Ginny 2015-01-09 18:41:56
i've always wondered if hormonal therapy is fast like wake up one morning and "holy ***i got boobies" or if its 3 years later and "gdi still an A cup"
It really varies from person to person. Genetics and age also play a part. Generally, the sooner they start HRT, the more effective it will be. I've had friends that were a B after a couple months, others that stayed an A. My growth was in line with the other women in my family. A, after a couple months, literally "gdi still an A cup" for a couple years, then somehow grew to a C.
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By Anna Ruthven 2015-01-09 18:45:28
I'm watching this thread due to...uhh...reports...yeah.
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By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2015-01-09 18:56:03
If my question got reported im calling shenanigans while it was worded juvenile it is a question asked in earnest and the answer was/is greatly appreciated
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By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2015-01-09 18:59:07
i've always wondered if hormonal therapy is fast like wake up one morning and "holy ***i got boobies" or if its 3 years later and "gdi still an A cup"
It really varies from person to person. Genetics and age also play a part. Generally, the sooner they start HRT, the more effective it will be. I've had friends that were a B after a couple months, others that stayed an A. My growth was in line with the other women in my family. A, after a couple months, literally "gdi still an A cup" for a couple years, then somehow grew to a C. Fascinating I had theories and you answered my next question without my asking which was if genetics dictated growth or if the Dr could target specifics
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-01-09 19:00:34
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Russia says drivers must not have 'sex disorders'
Quote: Russia has listed transsexual and transgender people among those who will no longer qualify for driving licences.
Fetishism, exhibitionism and voyeurism are also included as "mental disorders" now barring people from driving.
The government says it is tightening medical controls for drivers because Russia has too many road accidents.
"Pathological" gambling and compulsive stealing are also on the list. Russian psychiatrists and human rights lawyers have condemned the move.
The announcement follows international complaints about Russian harassment of gay-rights activists.
New Russian Regulation Says Transgender People Unfit to Drive
Quote: Transgender people may no longer be allowed to drive cars in Russia under new road safety regulations signed by Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev.
A decree published on the government website earlier this month lists an array of health conditions that can disqualify someone from getting behind the wheel, among them "personality and behavioral disorders" listed in the World Health Organization's classification of diseases.
The sections in question — F60 to F69 — name transsexualism and transvestism, along with other "disorders of sexual preference," such as fetishism and voyeurism. "Disorders associated with sexual development and orientation" are also listed.
The new road safety rules are "aimed at reducing the death rate from traffic incidents" in the country, a government note accompanying the decree said. It did not specify how being genderqueer could limit a person's ability to drive safely.
The Association of Russian Lawyers for Human Rights lambasted the new rules as violations of the Russian Constitution, saying in an online statement that the decree deprives "all transgender people, bigender, asexuals, transvestites, cross-dressers [and] people who need a sex reassignment" of the right to drive.
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