Best Flaming Crush Gearset???

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Best Flaming Crush gearset???
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 Cerberus.Warviper
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By Cerberus.Warviper 2014-11-18 09:21:12
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Hey guys.

Seeing as Flaming crush is 2 physical? and 1 magical attack? Ive had some different test displaying different resault with my current gear.

Could anyone please list the best in slot gear for this BP??

Kind regards
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By Acacia 2014-11-18 09:44:30
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This is the set I have been using:
ItemSet 330727
It has pet:MAB+25 on hand and legs and pet:MAB+23 on feet.

But I recently did a little testing and I think BP damage might always be more effective:
ItemSet 330728

I would really like to do some more testing but I need to find a monster with high enough HP to take a beating but low enough eva/def to get some consistent numbers.
 Quetzalcoatl.Lishje
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By Quetzalcoatl.Lishje 2014-11-18 10:09:01
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Acacia said: »
I would really like to do some more testing but I need to find a monster with high enough HP to take a beating but low enough eva/def to get some consistent numbers.

I'm not sure how well of testing mobs campaign mobs would make, but they are abundant, low level, and have a lot of HP!
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By Acacia 2014-11-18 10:50:43
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Quetzalcoatl.Lishje said: »
I'm not sure how well of testing mobs campaign mobs would make, but they are abundant, low level, and have a lot of HP!
Good idea but I'm not sure if that's going to work... I just one-shot a campaign mob with a 20k Flaming Crush, haha.
 Siren.Noxzema
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By Siren.Noxzema 2014-11-18 23:51:11
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I haven't tried it yet, but could try some aby nms w/o aby buffs, should but high enough hp, but lower lvl, and relatively easy to spam.
 Bahamut.Shirai
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By Bahamut.Shirai 2014-11-19 05:27:05
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Acacia said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Lishje said: »
I'm not sure how well of testing mobs campaign mobs would make, but they are abundant, low level, and have a lot of HP!
Good idea but I'm not sure if that's going to work... I just one-shot a campaign mob with a 20k Flaming Crush, haha.

Eh, yeah. I occasionally even one shot Campaign NMs so they don't really make reliable test subjects.

I'd say, try the mobs in Dho/Woh gates for good measure, you may want to eat Shiromochi to compenaste for the evasion of the mobs but since you generally don't one shot those they make better test subjects.
I think.

That said, I too am pretty curious to your test results.
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 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2014-11-19 06:14:52
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http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/114636-Monster-Avatar-Pet-damage?p=6013850&viewfull=1#post6013850

So the equation is something like:
Damage = (1+BP Damage)*(7*pDIF*Base Damage + (MAB/MDB)*6*pDIF*Base Damage)

The bottom set is +44 Avatar MAB and +71% BP Damage. So lets compare the Hands slot, ignoring the 12 attack on Gages.
Damage = (1+.71)*(7*pDIF*BD + (1.5+.44)*6*pDIF*BD) = 31.98*pDIF*BD
Damage = (1+.66)*(7*pDIF*BD + (1.5+.67)*6*pDIF*BD) = 33.23*pDIF*BD

So unless that 12 attack increases damage by 4% (it won't), there is essentially no chance that Spurrina Gages beat your Hagondes on Flaming Crush.

It's very difficult to parse avatar BPs by eye (or even with a parser) due to sample size, the fact that they can all crit, and so forth. I'm pretty convinced that crits make up the majority of the variability in flaming crush damage.
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By Zoltar 2014-11-19 07:33:31
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Use ALL the Pet MAB gearz!
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By Acacia 2014-11-19 10:49:51
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Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/114636-Monster-Avatar-Pet-damage?p=6013850&viewfull=1#post6013850

So the equation is something like:
Damage = (1+BP Damage)*(7*pDIF*Base Damage + (MAB/MDB)*6*pDIF*Base Damage)

The bottom set is +44 Avatar MAB and +71% BP Damage. So lets compare the Hands slot, ignoring the 12 attack on Gages.
Damage = (1+.71)*(7*pDIF*BD + (1.5+.44)*6*pDIF*BD) = 31.98*pDIF*BD
Damage = (1+.66)*(7*pDIF*BD + (1.5+.67)*6*pDIF*BD) = 33.23*pDIF*BD

So unless that 12 attack increases damage by 4% (it won't), there is essentially no chance that Spurrina Gages beat your Hagondes on Flaming Crush.

It's very difficult to parse avatar BPs by eye (or even with a parser) due to sample size, the fact that they can all crit, and so forth. I'm pretty convinced that crits make up the majority of the variability in flaming crush damage.
Ok yeah, that makes sense. For some reason I was thinking BP damage was applied to each hit indiviually, which would somehow double the effect on the magical part. My sample set was probably just too small.
 Asura.Pergatory
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By Asura.Pergatory 2014-11-21 17:41:41
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In my experience, Spurrina Gages outdamages Hagondes Cuffs with +25 very consistently.

It's my theory that BP damage is double counted on the magic hit of Flaming Crush by the way its damage is calculated. The magic hit's damage seems to be based on the damage done by the physical hits, which is why if you miss all the physical hits then the magic hit misses too. (I believe the magic hit is auto-capped accuracy otherwise, always being 95%. This is just from personal experience.) I believe the BP damage bonus is applied to the physical hits before the magic hit's base damage is calculated. Then after that's done, BP damage bonus is also applied to the magical hit, thus effectively counting it twice.

This is the set I've had the best luck with:

ItemSet 319492

Edit: The diamond earring is from ACP7 and has Pet:MAB+2. Domesticator's is nice for avatar melee, but double attack procs on a blood pact aren't like double attack procs on a weaponskill. They don't get the same modifiers as other hits in the blood pact. It's basically like adding one regular melee swing to your blood pact. If I didn't have diamond earring, I'd probably just use a skill earring for more accuracy. Also prefer 6 skill over 1 MAB from Fervor Ring, that's just personal preference because I tend to do more difficult content.

Also,
Quote:
I'm pretty convinced that crits make up the majority of the variability in flaming crush damage.
That's pretty much the case for all blood pacts, the crits are like 80% of the damage they do. You can land all three hits on Pred Claws and still only do like 1200 damage. It's rare, so they definitely have some kind of massive crit rate modifier on them.
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By Zoltar 2014-11-21 20:44:20
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So if you swap out spurrina for hagondes, how much less dmg are we talking?
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By Chimerawizard 2014-11-21 21:03:54
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Asura.Pergatory said: »
Quote:
I'm pretty convinced that crits make up the majority of the variability in flaming crush damage.
That's pretty much the case for all blood pacts, the crits are like 80% of the damage they do. You can land all three hits on Pred Claws and still only do like 1200 damage. It's rare, so they definitely have some kind of massive crit rate modifier on them.
In that case, wouldn't the Glyphic Doublet +1 be preferred over Convoker's? At least in the higher level content, where crit rate is at its lowest.
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By Zoltar 2014-11-21 21:23:38
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Chimerawizard said: »
Asura.Pergatory said: »
Quote:
I'm pretty convinced that crits make up the majority of the variability in flaming crush damage.
That's pretty much the case for all blood pacts, the crits are like 80% of the damage they do. You can land all three hits on Pred Claws and still only do like 1200 damage. It's rare, so they definitely have some kind of massive crit rate modifier on them.
In that case, wouldn't the Glyphic Doublet +1 be preferred over Convoker's? At least in the higher level content, where crit rate is at its lowest.

I wouldn't chance it.
 Asura.Pergatory
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By Asura.Pergatory 2014-11-24 11:25:57
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Zoltar said: »
So if you swap out spurrina for hagondes, how much less dmg are we talking?
Well the bulk of my testing was done against Dynamis Lord & Arch Dynamis Lord way back in the day. At the time, I believe Spurrina was averaging something like 400-600 more damage per BP. Sounds like more than it is, because Flaming Crush is brutal against DL, with average damage being over 30k. It's not a massive difference and it'd be interesting to see Auspex vs Hagondes testing to see if the results are similar.

As far as Glyphic Doublet, I haven't seen much benefit from it surprisingly. It seems like crit rate is never below about 70% even on the hardest content.

For harder content, in my experience, accuracy is more desirable than crit rate. For example when I'm doing capacity point farming in Woh Gates, I have a special Flaming Crush build I use that trades some BP damage for accuracy (Glyphic Bracers +1, Convoker's Spats +1, etc). It takes my average Crush from something like 3k to more like 6k. It seems like as long as you can get hits to land, they will almost always crit.

Another example is the time I foolishly tried to bring SMN to Incursion Lv143. Almost everything missed even with Shiromochi +1, 10/10 phys acc merits, 10/10 phys acc job points, and I quickly gave up trying to land Rage BPs. However on Pred Claws I noticed something interesting which is that my first one missed completely, and my second one did about 2k damage. I'd bet money that if I'd checked my TP return from that second Pred Claws, that I still missed 2/3 hits and got the 2k damage because the one hit that did land was a crit. If no hits crit at all, Pred Claws won't do above about 1200 damage in my experience so I think one of my hits must've been a crit.

I suspect there's a pretty narrow range where your accuracy is high enough that crit rate is more beneficial than skill/accuracy, but your crit rate isn't high enough to make Convoker's beat Glyphic.
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 Cerberus.Avalon
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By Cerberus.Avalon 2014-12-11 12:02:13
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Where does Argocham Mantle come from? I don't believe the information stating that it comes from Incursion is accurate. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

Thank you.
 Bahamut.Suppa
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By Bahamut.Suppa 2014-12-11 12:04:35
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Cerberus.Avalon said: »
Where does Argocham Mantle come from?

Its from Incursion
 Cerberus.Avalon
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By Cerberus.Avalon 2014-12-11 12:07:41
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Bahamut.Suppa said: »
Cerberus.Avalon said: »
Where does Argocham Mantle come from?

Its from Incursion

I've never seen it drop in the many times I've done it, nor is it posted on the Wiki lists. Is it a new addition or just ridiculously rare?
 Bahamut.Suppa
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By Bahamut.Suppa 2014-12-11 12:13:12
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We have seen a few since Incursion released, guess its just rare, and SE's random ***

It could be from Ymmr-Ulvid, though I just tried to check my logs and they were off >.>
 Cerberus.Avalon
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By Cerberus.Avalon 2014-12-11 12:14:45
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Bahamut.Suppa said: »
We have seen a few since Incursion released, guess its just rare, and SE's randomness ***

I've spammed Incursion so much as a BLM (sleeper) that I got burned out on it, but I guess it's time to go back for this mantle.

Thanks for confirming it.
 Phoenix.Rumblepakk
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By Phoenix.Rumblepakk 2014-12-11 15:41:16
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Yeah its from Ymmr. And I think Conveyence is from Tiij or whatever his name is.

HI AVALON
 Cerberus.Avalon
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By Cerberus.Avalon 2014-12-11 15:46:53
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Phoenix.Rumblepakk said: »
Yeah its from Ymmr. And I think Conveyence is from Tiij or whatever his name is.

HI AVALON

Sup Rumble. :o

I have Conveyance with pretty good augments, but I had no clue about the other SMN cape from Ymmr. It certainly seems worth obtaining.
 Phoenix.Rumblepakk
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By Phoenix.Rumblepakk 2014-12-18 13:14:09
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Im still waiting to get my conveyence cape w/ augments. But i use the argochampsa for flaming crush and pretty much everything else. Sometimes i switch to samanisi for accuracy. testing in progress, lol
 Cerberus.Avalon
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By Cerberus.Avalon 2014-12-18 20:59:57
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Phoenix.Rumblepakk said: »
Im still waiting to get my conveyence cape w/ augments. But i use the argochampsa for flaming crush and pretty much everything else. Sometimes i switch to samanisi for accuracy. testing in progress, lol

I'm curious to hear how it goes with your testing. I don't have Argochampsa yet but I do have an augmented Conveyance cape.

You guys run Incursion much on Phoenix?
 Phoenix.Rumblepakk
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By Phoenix.Rumblepakk 2014-12-21 15:26:31
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Cerberus.Avalon said: »
Phoenix.Rumblepakk said: ยป
Im still waiting to get my conveyence cape w/ augments. But i use the argochampsa for flaming crush and pretty much everything else. Sometimes i switch to samanisi for accuracy. testing in progress, lol

I'm curious to hear how it goes with your testing. I don't have Argochampsa yet but I do have an augmented Conveyance cape.

You guys run Incursion much on Phoenix?

Im planning on doing runs in the LS im in more often. I just did two runs today doing the NMs( NOT gramk. )

But depending on conveyence augments I think that it could be better than argochampsa
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By Zoltar 2014-12-21 17:57:01
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Pretty sure most agreed the BP damage +5% parsed better than argochampsa. Unfortunately I can't test because all of my jse capes come with BP II delay and summoning skill, no +dmg :(
 Phoenix.Rumblepakk
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By Phoenix.Rumblepakk 2014-12-29 08:43:19
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So I got the JSE cape last night, two of them actually. I'll be useing one of them for the -3 BP II delay. The other has +3 skill and +5 BP damage. I'm guessing this would be good for physical BPs, magical BPs, and flaming crush?
 Phoenix.Pretre
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By Phoenix.Pretre 2015-01-01 21:44:09
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I recently started to pimp my smn and I wondering do callers +2 legs work for flaming crush and if so should I use those or the hag legs I have with pet mab +20, also whats the diff in pet acc and smn skill a bit confused which back to use for crush the skill +8 or the pet acc 7
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By Siren.Noxzema 2015-01-01 22:12:39
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Legs are still up in the air I think, between Hag. pants and Ngen Seraweels, Caller's spat's I wouldn't think affects FC as it doesn't use TP. iirc smn skill is around 1:1, I usually prefer skill over acc for my acc set.
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By Acacia 2015-01-01 22:49:49
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Phoenix.Pretre said: »
I recently started to pimp my smn and I wondering do callers +2 legs work for flaming crush and if so should I use those or the hag legs I have with pet mab +20, also whats the diff in pet acc and smn skill a bit confused which back to use for crush the skill +8 or the pet acc 7
Caller's Spats +2 have no effect on Flaming Crush because it doesn't use TP. As for skill vs accuracy, it's essentially impossible to test but I've always assumed it works like normal weapon accuracy: http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Accuracy
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By Phoenix.Pretre 2015-01-01 22:56:01
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cool ty ill stick with my auged hag hands and legs till I get the bp dmg + ones
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