Which Relics Are Still Worth The Trouble?

I was gonna make this argument about Excal Apoc and Amano being in the wrong places but I let it go (opinions etc) and it's his specific opinion. Mandau still quite good better than everything even Vajra/Twash 119, since Rudra's only really good while stacked, but it's tied to a still loljob, so while it's a Tier 1 for the job, it's a Tier 4/5 because the job it's a tier 1 for.

Unfortunately Apocalypse just doesn't pump out the raw numbers other relics do. However, if you went off the fun scale, I'd put Apoc/Catastrophe higher than anything else in it's own category.

I believe thf should use rudra when stacked and evisceration unstacked now I could be wrong.

Correct, Ccl, at least according to THF threads I have been reading. Which then opens my question, if Mandau has been lowered in rank, what would be better? I know we can say Delve GK is better than Amano which is why it dropped, but what would drop Mandau?

That's what I said... Rudra's only good while stacked. Which means you can only use it, every 6th or so ws.

To what a thf is taken to generally.


Only being good for THF, and you don't take THF to anything. (Granted I can win a parse on thf in Morimar/Ceizak/Foret Delves, if someone lets me go THF, but most can't say that.) Makes it an automatic bottom tier.

Again, people, this is all just opinion.

Eminent flute + terpander is more like 80% what a gjallarhorn 99+ daurdabla 90 can do, +3 and eminent for ballads and schrzo is about 90% what a gjallarhorn can do.

Mind you, the diference between a +2 and +4 is near to non existent:

- March: -3,1% haste/song. If you have magic haste applied and marcato one march, you can still cap magic haste, so there isnt any diference between march from gjallarhorn and emiment flute. With langeleik, the diference to cap is less than 2% without marcato.

- Minuet: -8 attack is the diference between eminent flute and ghorn. -4 if you farm apollos flute.

- Madrigal/prelude: -6 acc/racc is the diference between flute and ghorn. -3 if you farm cantabank horn.

- Ballad: -2mp/song, so this is the major diference. 3 ballads will have -6 mp with eminent flute compared with ghorn 99.

Those are the most important songs.

4 songs is hard to compare. Its in another stage of 3 songs. But 4 songs arent necessary in anything you could do.

Oh, I know it's opinion, that's why I am asking. I like hearing other people's opinions. I'm just curious if any specific dagger has been slated as better for THF given this change, the way SAM is so specific.

I've been using Evisceration over 5/5 Exenterator these days in the unstacked realm, but at 1000 TP Mercy Stroke is better than Rudra's, but at 3000 TP Rudra's just sh*ts all over it (by ~5k dmg or more, so it's not even close)... I haven't done enough mid-range TP Mercy/Rudra's to have an answer on that one though, so your guess is as good as mine.

It still feels weird adding that extra 0 to TP values lol

Fair enough. It's still most likely the best main hand, but the gap between mandau and izhi main hand is prolly lower than before update.

Vajra would obviously be better, for like.... Voidwatch lol... where you can actually get AM 3 on THF. Or maybe for fights where you can start with AM3 from Cor rolls and kill the mob before it runs out.

But for soloing/duoing/things that thf isn't just TH for, you want Mandau. Twashes downfall is that it's attached to needing aftermath, and that Rudra's is still only usable every 3 minutes with Bully. And let's be honest, if you had 1500 plates... who would seriously use them on a Twashtar? One or two "snowflakes"?


You don't have the full proper set yet, Rudra's @ 100% is at least 300 damage better than stroke, but you get aftermath from stroke... so it's kind of a wash.

119 Farsha if I had plates. Just for shock value when people examined me and went "WTF"

I believe Tsurumaru beats others GK because of the save tp +25 trait. That makes too easy to reduce xhits for SAM, so thats a considerably boost. While Izhiikoh is just +3% triple attack, i believe not enough to beat the occasionally deal double damage, even more considering THF use lots of dual wield gear, so they have more melee hits as dualwield reduce the tp gained.

Apocalypse is in the very bottom because not only is Scythe utterly inferior to Great Sword, Apocalypse itself is pretty bad aswell now that it lost alot of what made it a good weapon in the first place.

Haste Aftermath: No1curr
Catastrophe drain effect: Been negligible for god damn while now.
Rest of what it offers: Meh.

In regards to Amanomurakumo, while I am under the clear impression it is inferior to very easy alternatives the vast majority of the time, I thought there were some small instances were it was optimal. Seems as though I am wrong, however.

Excalibur I wasn't really sure about, given easy alternatives perform adequately enough, that, and Burtgang being quite desirable to the point of basically having Excalibur in a "don't bother" tier, much like Amanomurakumo.

As or Mandau, good call on that, not quite sure why I actually put it high as the relevance of THF is quite low right now.

Adjusted accordingly in light of enlightenment.

Well that's depressing lol

But in the spirit of the original post, I still don't regret making a Mandau though; I like THF, and regardless of the WS you use it's a quality dagger.

Apoc should be tier 2 or 3. Tier three before the weapon skill buff. Maybe tier 2 now. The fact you can do so much with it in itself is great. Even D BCNMs you can go drk apoc and hold your own and out dmg the mnks and rngs on par.

Rag is ok if you have torncleaver. If bit it is junk.

Apoc has soloed Kaggen, The boyboya tree VW, Eight trees and NM. No sam, war, or rng will be able to do something like that. I doubt a mnk could as well.

Oh yeah, I'll never argue that. Love THF. And Mandau still MY favorite Relic, the only one I actually don't regret making/HAVING to make. <3Mandau<3

The Drain HP (WHEN IT DOESN'T MISS!!!!!!) gives DRK a unique boost, being able to full time Souleater etc. It's not top tier, but it's not bottom tier either, it's somewhere in the obscure middle.

I don't have Torcleaver, I use 5/5 Resolution and every run I have done with it since making it 119, I am the top DD. I am not extremely well geared and I'm sure it's in part to not parsing against top geared DD's as well, but it is far from junk. I'm not sure how Torcleaver was changed, if at all, from the WS updates, but I can't see it being worth a damn, much like Scourge.

He's dumb, ignore him.

The only situation where Apocalypse would be remotely useful right now would be: Your healer(s) are utterly appalling.

Not a very good reason to build a relic, or use it if you accidentally already made it

Come to Asura, bet 20m and I'll solo kaggen as Samurai for you.

Being able to solo NMs that were barely relevant when I quit in 2012 justifies a relic now o.O?

Mjollnir (yes, you should use WHM to melee and WS)
Aegis
Gjallarhorn
Excalibur
Mandau


So far they are all worth making.

meow :3

all worth making for the AH points,

get it son

Mandau is still one of the overall best DPS weapons for THF (high base damage, poison, ODD).

If you don't ever want to make a Ryu for DRG, Gungnir is actually better than Upukirex for party play, as you keep def down up when angon is off.

Rag right now is unbeatable as far as melee relic damage output.

Aegis, horn, and gun are no brainers.

I would not include Yoichi in that list, as the Delve Bow and Apex are almost as good for SAM and you should make a gun for your RNG. That being said, Namas is great when you don't want much hate.

The rest are still good for the jobs that play with them, it just depends on what you want to do. Bravura does good damage but its not as good as other G-axes 119. It is however, the best hybrid/dt weapon WAR can use. Amano isn't better for pure damage when you compare it to Tsurmaru, but its niche is situations where you need more ACC. Mjolnir is the next relic I am making because why the hell not? Claustrum is the best BLM weapon in the game right now. Guttler is BSTs best melee DPS option. Excal is still great for damage and RDM melee can use it. Sphari is a decent weapon for low lvl content where your counter rate can be insane (great for salvage). Apoc is DRKs best solo weapon. Did I miss anything?

It all just depends on what job you play and what situation you are in.

Ouch, Kikoku doesn't even exist anymore.

Ftfy.

Amano is only 25acc over tsuru I'd be surprised if there is a situation it's really better.

Did kikoku ever exist?

The inherent problem with the internet (humans in general) if someone said it a year ago, some people will continue to think its true, even if it wasn't in the first place, if you appear to be semi credible in your statement/presentation.

#Grainofsalt

Honestly, with the loss of Mercy Stroke as the uber weaponskill, I'd drop Mandau down to tier 3 or 4. It's basically tied with Izhiikoh now, and doesn't have any really unique utility.

Spharai I'd sort of half-drop to a low 2 or high 3. It's only marginally better than other alternatives (unless you need acc, in which case Tinhaspa can beat it), though it still brings nice utility with higher counter rates (for content where that applies).

Most the rest of the listings seem approximately appropriate.

wait... did i just read something that said claustrum is the best blm weapon atm?