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States acting against fed. government!
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Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2014-02-26 17:56:20
If you go to a hospital, you are paying for someone else's healthcare.
If you visit a doctor, you are paying for someone else's healthcare.
If you have insurance, you are paying for someone else's healthcare.
You are already paying for other people's healthcare costs in some form or another. Ensuring that a greater portion of the population is able to manage their own healthcare costs lessens these expenses.
People don't realize that the costs are so high because they are paying for others...
They realize it, it just weakens their argument.
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By Jetackuu 2014-02-26 17:57:05
Ensuring that a greater portion of the population is able to manage their own healthcare costs lessens these expenses. Great idea.
Now lets figure out how to do that instead of forcing people to support an industry that isn't directly involved in healthcare outside of how much they are willing to pay for something.
You know, make healthcare affordable instead of forcing people to buy a product they don't need.
Then do single-payer.
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Bismarck.Killamexe
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8
By Bismarck.Killamexe 2014-02-26 18:01:22
Bismarck.Killamexe said: »What has caused a decline in the past 5 years?
It may sounds like im kidding but in all seriousness Sponge Bob Square Pants is the problem. Im singling that out specifically but I mean in more general terms that free time is more predominately spent with mindless bull crap like that other than more productive things.
How can anyone allow children to watch mindless crap like that and expect anything more from them. First episode: May 1, 1999; so the timescale is a bit off.
Probably because they are busy watching other mindless crap. Rather than debating on forums, of course.
I wouldn't say its too far off. I would say that it took a greater hold on the people who were watching it at younger ages before school and continued to watch it. I don't think it is much of a stretch to say there has been a decline since 1999 either. Neither here nor there, but that was more what I was saying.
Bismarck.Killamexe
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8
By Bismarck.Killamexe 2014-02-26 18:02:36
and the level of education as a whole in the U.S. public school system is beyond pathetic. I'll drink to that.
Cheers!
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By Altimaomega 2014-02-26 18:06:03
If you go to a hospital, you are paying for someone else's healthcare.
If you visit a doctor, you are paying for someone else's healthcare.
If you have insurance, you are paying for someone else's healthcare.
You are already paying for other people's healthcare costs in some form or another. Ensuring that a greater portion of the population is able to manage their own healthcare costs lessens these expenses.
The ACA does not ensure a greater portion is able to manage their healthcare costs. Do you realize that the ACA has made healthcare price's sky rocket? The ACA is STILL 2 million short of the 6 million insured people it took coverage AWAY from lmao..
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-02-26 18:07:49
Ensuring that a greater portion of the population is able to manage their own healthcare costs lessens these expenses. Great idea.
Now lets figure out how to do that instead of forcing people to support an industry that isn't directly involved in healthcare outside of how much they are willing to pay for something.
You know, make healthcare affordable instead of forcing people to buy a product they don't need.
Then do single-payer. Explain how that would work then. And remember, the US government is known to be very inefficient and wastes money like you wouldn't believe it.
Explain how a single-payer system in US would be cheaper and provide a better service than the system we currently have.
Bahamut.Milamber
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3692
By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-02-26 18:09:21
So no education is better than poor education? Please don't infer that I am saying that you should be mindless nubs in the ground.
Of course it is better to have poor education than no education. But you know what's even better than poor education? Good education. What's keeping us from having good education? This administration in their lack of responsibility in providing said education to the public.
How exactly is the quality of education the issue with the argument? Because the quality of education is important to society. You are inferring that all education is the same, and why should you pay for education if people are just going to die/drop out/not even try when 2 of those 3 issues are quality issues. Well, the third can be considered a quality issue if the cause of death is forced, not accidental. If I recall, you were arguing on a different thread that the personal effort and decisions of a student were the driving factor, not the quality of education.
Isn't the quality of education primarily dictated by state decisions? Hell, aren't schools in Texas independent from municipalities? Texas has to abide by federal standards. And no, they are not independent, at least not totally. There are revenue difference between schools, but the state usually picks up the slack if needed. There are also state standards that need to be followed also. The federal standards need to be complied with only to receive federal funding.
What has caused a decline in the past 5 years? Lack of responsibility (both on the school and parents, but we can't control the parent's responsibility, only the school) and lack of proper funding. When you have money going to teacher's unions instead of teacher's salaries, that is a gross misappropriation of funds. That's not exactly what is going on, and that actually makes it sound better than what typically occurs.
For those who don't know, in many cases teachers are not allowed to opt-out of a union, but have union fees directly removed from their paycheck.
When you have money going to football stadiums (yes, I will admit that Texas is the worst offender in this) instead of supplies and tools to teach students, that is a gross misappropriation of funds. Yes, and no. Physical activity and education is something which needs to be taught and encouraged (for a wide variety of reasons), but you certainly don't need to go as overboard as many schools do.
Plus, it doesn't help if they increase the size of the classroom instead of hiring more teachers to work more on the children and less on the curriculum. Frankly, they would probably be better off having better screening of teachers who can actually teach a topic, and move towards a lecture/TA or lecture/workshop scenario.
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By Jetackuu 2014-02-26 18:12:12
If you go to a hospital, you are paying for someone else's healthcare.
If you visit a doctor, you are paying for someone else's healthcare.
If you have insurance, you are paying for someone else's healthcare.
You are already paying for other people's healthcare costs in some form or another. Ensuring that a greater portion of the population is able to manage their own healthcare costs lessens these expenses.
The ACA does not ensure a greater portion is able to manage their healthcare costs. Do you realize that the ACA has made healthcare price's sky rocket? The ACA is STILL 2 million short of the 6 million insured people it took coverage AWAY from lmao..poidh
By Jetackuu 2014-02-26 18:14:14
Ensuring that a greater portion of the population is able to manage their own healthcare costs lessens these expenses. Great idea.
Now lets figure out how to do that instead of forcing people to support an industry that isn't directly involved in healthcare outside of how much they are willing to pay for something.
You know, make healthcare affordable instead of forcing people to buy a product they don't need.
Then do single-payer. Explain how that would work then. And remember, the US government is known to be very inefficient and wastes money like you wouldn't believe it.
Explain how a single-payer system in US would be cheaper and provide a better service than the system we currently have.
It'd be pretty easy, but I'm pretty sure our current stock of elected officials would manage to *** it up.
By Altimaomega 2014-02-26 18:16:37
Ensuring that a greater portion of the population is able to manage their own healthcare costs lessens these expenses. Great idea.
Now lets figure out how to do that instead of forcing people to support an industry that isn't directly involved in healthcare outside of how much they are willing to pay for something.
You know, make healthcare affordable instead of forcing people to buy a product they don't need.
Then do single-payer. Explain how that would work then. And remember, the US government is known to be very inefficient and wastes money like you wouldn't believe it.
Explain how a single-payer system in US would be cheaper and provide a better service than the system we currently have.
The only way to fix this massive train wreck, repel this *** law. Make Insurance company's operate across state lines and get rid of all the damn middle men. Then look into the damn cost's that hospitals are charging, it should not cost 15-30k to have a 15 min operation getting your gall-bladder removed.
By Altimaomega 2014-02-26 18:19:03
Read the news, Obama just said they have 4 million signed up.
The really funny part is that's most likely and inflated number.
Bismarck.Ihina
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-02-26 18:20:10
Make Insurance company's operate across state lines
That sounds socialist to me. Who are we to dictate where insurance companies need to operate?
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By Jetackuu 2014-02-26 18:23:37
Read the news, Obama just said they have 4 million signed up.
The really funny part is that's most likely and inflated number. same thing I think of your number, hence the point of my comment.
By Altimaomega 2014-02-26 18:24:43
Make Insurance company's operate across state lines
That sounds socialist to me. Who are we to dictate where insurance companies need to operate?
Its socialist to make a company operate outside state lines so they dont have a monopoly and charge crazy prices.
But its totally fine to make me pay the same companys money for a product that I dont want?
By Jetackuu 2014-02-26 18:25:49
Ensuring that a greater portion of the population is able to manage their own healthcare costs lessens these expenses. Great idea.
Now lets figure out how to do that instead of forcing people to support an industry that isn't directly involved in healthcare outside of how much they are willing to pay for something.
You know, make healthcare affordable instead of forcing people to buy a product they don't need.
Then do single-payer. Explain how that would work then. And remember, the US government is known to be very inefficient and wastes money like you wouldn't believe it.
Explain how a single-payer system in US would be cheaper and provide a better service than the system we currently have.
The only way to fix this massive train wreck, repel this *** law. Make Insurance company's operate across state lines and get rid of all the damn middle men. Then look into the damn cost's that hospitals are charging, it should not cost 15-30k to have a 15 min operation getting your gall-bladder removed.
Do you have any idea the amount it costs to do that procedure? not to mention scheduling, operational costs, insurance costs, equipment costs, payroll, cost of others not being able to afford their bills, etc.
I work for a non-profit hospital, and can tell you point blank there's many reasons that the costs are high, and you don't know what you're talking about.
Bismarck.Ihina
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-02-26 18:27:32
Its socialist to make a company operate outside state lines so they dont have a monopoly and charge crazy prices.
So you admit you're a socialist. Go back to socialland you socialist.
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By Altimaomega 2014-02-26 18:36:07
Caitsith.Zahrah
Server: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
By Caitsith.Zahrah 2014-02-26 18:38:08
What has caused a decline in the past 5 years?
Lack of responsibility (both on the school and parents, but we can't control the parent's responsibility, only the school) and lack of proper funding. When you have money going to teacher's unions instead of teacher's salaries, that is a gross misappropriation of funds. When you have money going to football stadiums (yes, I will admit that Texas is the worst offender in this) instead of supplies and tools to teach students, that is a gross misappropriation of funds. It is bad on both sides of the aisle, the way money is being transferred to things that does not help with the education of our youth.
Plus, it doesn't help if they increase the size of the classroom instead of hiring more teachers to work more on the children and less on the curriculum.
Are you shitting me?!? Have you been asleep for the last five to ten years?
Although I disagree with the bolstering of tenure, of which I blame the ousting of a couple of friends who got the boot early in their career during the massive lay-offs, give us some stats on teacher's unions in Texas because you're talking out of your *** if you're placing blame on that.
Lack of funding you say? Funny because Abbott had a hand in that which also pulled the rug out from under Pre-K funding that helped underprivileged children get the head start that they weren't getting at home. He has also been hemming and hawing over how he is going to approach education (speculation is that Abbott will just be harping on school vouchers). Where as Davis is trying to resolve the the under-staffing problem. (Which can also be attributed to the mass lay-offs, since young teachers at the time didn't return, and education majors sought out other degrees since there was no guarantee that they would have a job.)
The misappropriation of funds could be connected to TX flipping the script of standardized testing every time it doesn't produce intended results. Who benefited from TAAS to TAKS to STAAR in the past ten years? Seriously?!?
Are you seriously only paying attention to national news? Do you know any teachers?
AHHH!!! AHHH!!!
/throws hand in the hair
Also, link your stats on revenue teachers' unions receive in Texas, please!
EDIT: Yeah...Football stadiums...That one in Allen. :/ But ***! There's more than that.
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Garuda.Chanti
Server: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11889
By Garuda.Chanti 2014-02-26 18:38:18
.....
Explain how a single-payer system in US would be cheaper and provide a better service than the system we currently have. Checked the profits and executive salaries of insurance companies latley?
Also the system we have means increased accounting workload in the hospitals themselves.
Valefor.Omnys
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1759
By Valefor.Omnys 2014-02-26 18:41:06
I'd suggest any states making a real stand should stop taking in the billions in federal aid they get every year to really stick it to em.
This is the problem. While constitutionally the fed can't
orce many things, they can, will and do attach funding to cooperation.
Then again, if more tax monies went to the states rather than Sam, many states wouldn't need fed assistance and the more solvent states wouldn't have to pay for the bloat of states like California.
Morality, ethics, and being nice aside, a lot of what Washington forces states to do is financially unsustainable. That, however, strays from the topic.
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-02-26 18:41:41
The only way to fix this massive train wreck, repel this *** law. Make Insurance company's operate across state lines and get rid of all the damn middle men. Then look into the damn cost's that hospitals are charging, it should not cost 15-30k to have a 15 min operation getting your gall-bladder removed.
Your lack of education is shining even brighter than it was when you made this joke thread.
VIP
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2014-02-26 18:42:29
The ACA does not ensure a greater portion is able to manage their healthcare costs. Do you realize that the ACA has made healthcare price's sky rocket? The ACA is STILL 2 million short of the 6 million insured people it took coverage AWAY from lmao..
The rate of increase in insurance and healthcare costs has actually declined since 2010, costs are still skyrocketing, but at a lower rate than they did prior to ACA.
Also, there is nothing funny about a government program under-performing unless you have a personal bone to pick with either a politician or political party.
The enrollment rates aren't that short of predictions and have increased recently, though they are still noticeably off in terms of age demographic.
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By Altimaomega 2014-02-26 18:45:27
Ensuring that a greater portion of the population is able to manage their own healthcare costs lessens these expenses. Great idea.
Now lets figure out how to do that instead of forcing people to support an industry that isn't directly involved in healthcare outside of how much they are willing to pay for something.
You know, make healthcare affordable instead of forcing people to buy a product they don't need.
Then do single-payer. Explain how that would work then. And remember, the US government is known to be very inefficient and wastes money like you wouldn't believe it.
Explain how a single-payer system in US would be cheaper and provide a better service than the system we currently have.
The only way to fix this massive train wreck, repel this *** law. Make Insurance company's operate across state lines and get rid of all the damn middle men. Then look into the damn cost's that hospitals are charging, it should not cost 15-30k to have a 15 min operation getting your gall-bladder removed.
Do you have any idea the amount it costs to do that procedure? not to mention scheduling, operational costs, insurance costs, equipment costs, payroll, cost of others not being able to afford their bills, etc.
I work for a non-profit hospital, and can tell you point blank there's many reasons that the costs are high, and you don't know what you're talking about.
Yea I do because I have payed it. I also know they did 14 of them that day. I payed 15k W/O insurance if I had insurance it would have cost 30k+ Lets break out some math! Lets round this off to 20K x 14 people. $280k the hospital made in one day in one room doing one kind of operation, that is a very simple procedure. Yes there's many reasons costs are high, lets focus on that instead of making the working class pay for everyone and themselves!
Server: Asura
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Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-02-26 18:45:31
If I recall, you were arguing on a different thread that the personal effort and decisions of a student were the driving factor, not the quality of education. It is a driving factor, not the driving factor.
The federal standards need to be complied with only to receive federal funding. That doesn't mean that states can't have additional standards for themselves or towards each county/parrish.
That's not exactly what is going on, and that actually makes it sound better than what typically occurs.
For those who don't know, in many cases teachers are not allowed to opt-out of a union, but have union fees directly removed from their paycheck. And the unions also negotiate their own fees to be paid by the state, AND by the teachers.
At least in Texas they do. Teacher's union is pretty much the strongest union in the state.
Yes, and no. Physical activity and education is something which needs to be taught and encouraged (for a wide variety of reasons), but you certainly don't need to go as overboard as many schools do. PE is ok, $60 million for a football stadium is not. Just imagine how much better/higher quality items that $60 million would have helped.
Frankly, they would probably be better off having better screening of teachers who can actually teach a topic, and move towards a lecture/TA or lecture/workshop scenario. Probably.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
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Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-02-26 18:48:53
Your logic assumes that those 6 million people were automatically dumped into the federal and state marketplaces, which isn't the case.
By Altimaomega 2014-02-26 18:51:26
The only way to fix this massive train wreck, repel this *** law. Make Insurance company's operate across state lines and get rid of all the damn middle men. Then look into the damn cost's that hospitals are charging, it should not cost 15-30k to have a 15 min operation getting your gall-bladder removed.
Your lack of education is shining even brighter than it was when you made this joke thread.
All you've done is call names, put words in people's mouths and add nothing to this thread. Typical democrat.
By Altimaomega 2014-02-26 18:53:42
Your logic assumes that those 6 million people were automatically dumped into the federal and state marketplaces, which isn't the case.
If they was automatically dumped into the federal and state marketplaces, wouldnt ATLEAST 6 million people be signed up..
Who's logic is flawed again?
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
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Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-02-26 18:56:12
I'm saying it's silly to assume they were.
By Altimaomega 2014-02-26 18:57:43
I'm saying it's silly to assume they were.
yup....
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-02-26 18:58:34
The only way to fix this massive train wreck, repel this *** law. Make Insurance company's operate across state lines and get rid of all the damn middle men. Then look into the damn cost's that hospitals are charging, it should not cost 15-30k to have a 15 min operation getting your gall-bladder removed.
Your lack of education is shining even brighter than it was when you made this joke thread.
All you've done is call names, put words in people's mouths and add nothing to this thread. Typical democrat.
I actually debunked your thread with my first post. You have been backpedaling ever since, abandoning the topic and trying to find a new one. Typical troll.
http://conventionofstates.com/
http://www.capitalisminstitute.org/media-ignoring-nullification/
Kinda odd that the states are unprecedentedly standing up against such a wonderful president that only wants to help with his executive powers and pen.
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