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States acting against fed. government!
By Altimaomega 2014-02-26 15:32:59
Wow, you are spiraling here OP. Perhaps you should just quit?
Quiet you. Let the man talk. At least for another 3.5 hours til I get off work.
Right how else are we suppose to entertain ourselves play FFXI ><
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-02-26 15:33:28
Wow, you are spiraling here OP. Perhaps you should just quit?
Quiet you. Let the man talk. At least for another 3.5 hours til I get off work.
It is getting pretty amusing, I suppose.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-02-26 15:36:10
Wow, you are spiraling here OP. Perhaps you should just quit?
I just see a lot of people that are under the thumb of an oppressive government and seem to like it. As long as they get paid to do nothing but produce babies and smoke weed, why should they care what rights are being taken away from them?
By Altimaomega 2014-02-26 15:38:17
Wow, you are spiraling here OP. Perhaps you should just quit?
I just see a lot of people that are under the thumb of an oppressive government and seem to like it. As long as they get paid to do nothing but produce babies and smoke weed, why should they care what rights are being taken away from them?
I guess thats what it boils down too.
 Bismarck.Ihina
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-02-26 15:39:10
I heard you get a new phone every time you pop out a new baby and register them as a democrat
 Bahamut.Kara
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2014-02-26 15:43:03
The supreme court said it could not be a penalty it must be a tax. They did not rule on the validity of obamacare. The supreme court ruled on the individual mandate. They ruled that the Commerce Clause did not apply but Congress could maintain the individual mandate under their taxing powers.
Quote: Despite holding that the Commerce Clause and the Necessary and Proper Clause do not support the constitutionality of the individual mandate, the Court found that the mandate could be sustained under Congress's taxing power. The Court held that "Congress had the power to impose the exaction in §5000A under the taxing power, and that §5000A need not be read to do more than impose a tax. That is sufficient to sustain it." Consequently, while the ACA's description of the shared responsibility payment as a "penalty" and not a "tax" is "fatal" to the application of the AIA, Congress's choice of words does not "control whether an exaction is within Congress's constitutional power to tax." Instead, the "mandate can be regarded as establishing a condition—not owning health insurance—that triggers a tax—the required payment to the IRS."
The Court then offered a straightforward analysis of its taxing power: "[t]hose subject to the individual mandate may lawfully forgo health insurance and pay higher taxes, or buy health insurance and pay lower taxes. The only thing they many not lawfully do is not buy health insurance and not pay the resulting tax."
If that is not what you mean by the validity of obamacare you'll need to be more precise.
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By Altimaomega 2014-02-26 15:45:34
I heard you get a new phone every time you pop out a new baby and register them as a democrat
Old news, they are gonna start putting $500 in a trust fund for every baby born now.
Server: Shiva
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Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-02-26 15:45:51
I think you are going to way too much effort there Kara.
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Bismarck.Ihina
Server: Bismarck
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Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-02-26 15:49:03
I heard you get a new phone every time you pop out a new baby and register them as a democrat
Old news, they are gonna start putting $500 in a trust fund for every baby born now.
I don't know what trust means but it sounds socialist and gay.
By ScaevolaBahamut 2014-02-26 15:51:23
I heard you get a new phone every time you pop out a new baby and register them as a democrat
the funny thing is that if this were the case it would not be a nearly as awesome a payoff for your vote as what the gop has consistently promised
Server: Asura
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Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-02-26 15:53:01
I heard you get a new phone every time you pop out a new baby and register them as a democrat
the funny thing is that if this were the case it would not be a nearly as awesome a payoff for your vote as what the gop has consistently promised What, the freedom to choose for yourself?
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Bismarck.Ihina
Server: Bismarck
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Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-02-26 15:53:58
Swear I was just about to make that exact same post.
By Altimaomega 2014-02-26 15:56:19
I heard you get a new phone every time you pop out a new baby and register them as a democrat
the funny thing is that if this were the case it would not be a nearly as awesome a payoff for your vote as what the gop has consistently promised What, the freedom to choose for yourself?
Why would you wanna choose for yourself when the government is so good at handling money and protecting your family.
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By ScaevolaBahamut 2014-02-26 15:58:28
I heard you get a new phone every time you pop out a new baby and register them as a democrat
the funny thing is that if this were the case it would not be a nearly as awesome a payoff for your vote as what the gop has consistently promised What, the freedom to choose for yourself?
$$$
(i mean is there a part of Tax Cuts Uber Alles that isn't "we will give you money if you vote for us")
(although i give the gop a lot of credit for doing such a great job of making people think tax=theft, so they can make you feel better about their payoffs than the democrat payoffs)
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Bahamut.Milamber
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3692
By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-02-26 16:01:43
So you think its totally cool for the Federal Government to make you pay for being alive?
That's... pretty much what taxes are.
Name a tax for a service I must have or be fined.
Do you have a driver's license? Hell, do you file federal taxes?
I dont have too have a drivers license!
Edit: yes i file.
So you are required to have insurance?
Bismarck.Ihina
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-02-26 16:02:35
Obama called me the other day and said he's offering customized 100 dollar bills with your own picture printed on it if you vote for him for his third term. I know he can do that because executive order, but should I?
By Altimaomega 2014-02-26 16:03:37
The supreme court said it could not be a penalty it must be a tax. They did not rule on the validity of obamacare. The supreme court ruled on the individual mandate. They ruled that the Commerce Clause did not apply but Congress could maintain the individual mandate under their taxing powers.
Quote: Despite holding that the Commerce Clause and the Necessary and Proper Clause do not support the constitutionality of the individual mandate, the Court found that the mandate could be sustained under Congress's taxing power. The Court held that "Congress had the power to impose the exaction in §5000A under the taxing power, and that §5000A need not be read to do more than impose a tax. That is sufficient to sustain it." Consequently, while the ACA's description of the shared responsibility payment as a "penalty" and not a "tax" is "fatal" to the application of the AIA, Congress's choice of words does not "control whether an exaction is within Congress's constitutional power to tax." Instead, the "mandate can be regarded as establishing a condition—not owning health insurance—that triggers a tax—the required payment to the IRS."
The Court then offered a straightforward analysis of its taxing power: "[t]hose subject to the individual mandate may lawfully forgo health insurance and pay higher taxes, or buy health insurance and pay lower taxes. The only thing they many not lawfully do is not buy health insurance and not pay the resulting tax."
If that is not what you mean by the validity of obamacare you'll need to be more precise.
"That was in 2012, Despite holding that the Commerce Clause and the Necessary and Proper Clause do not support the constitutionality of the individual mandate, the Court found that the mandate could be sustained under Congress's taxing power."
Your own quote I may add. The ACA should have went back to the house and senate to be modified, it did not. The president did it. The President is in the process of being sued over his overreach of powers btw.
By Altimaomega 2014-02-26 16:06:00
So you think its totally cool for the Federal Government to make you pay for being alive?
That's... pretty much what taxes are.
Name a tax for a service I must have or be fined.
Do you have a driver's license? Hell, do you file federal taxes?
I dont have too have a drivers license!
Edit: yes i file.
So you are required to have insurance?
huh.. put some context to your question.
Bismarck.Ihina
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-02-26 16:07:16
He's trying to say that if you drive a car, you need auto insurance.
Another socialist lie
Server: Asura
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Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-02-26 16:10:53
I heard you get a new phone every time you pop out a new baby and register them as a democrat
the funny thing is that if this were the case it would not be a nearly as awesome a payoff for your vote as what the gop has consistently promised What, the freedom to choose for yourself?
$$$
(i mean is there a part of Tax Cuts Uber Alles that isn't "we will give you money if you vote for us")
(although i give the gop a lot of credit for doing such a great job of making people think tax=theft, so they can make you feel better about their payoffs than the democrat payoffs) So, EIC doesn't exist to you, does it?
But I digress, mainly because in '08-09 it was called Making Work Pay tax credit.
Bahamut.Milamber
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 3692
By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-02-26 16:13:11
Server: Asura
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Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-02-26 16:13:18
So you think its totally cool for the Federal Government to make you pay for being alive?
That's... pretty much what taxes are.
Name a tax for a service I must have or be fined.
Do you have a driver's license? Hell, do you file federal taxes?
I dont have too have a drivers license!
Edit: yes i file.
So you are required to have insurance? Why should he be required to have automotive insurance if he isn't required to have a car?
Yeah, states mandate that you have to have automotive insurance to drive, but you don't have to have a car to live.
And guess what, it is the state that mandates it, not the federal government.
But still, you aren't required to have a car to live, but you are required to have health insurance, regardless if you are in good health or not.
By Altimaomega 2014-02-26 16:15:50
how does auto insurance compare to health insurance?
Last I checked my health affected absolutely nobody but me.
I've never heard of a drunk person crashing into another drunk person, IN a bar and they had to exchange health insurance information because they both went to the hospital for stitches.
That sounds stupid as hell, and it is. So is the argument "well you have to have auto ins." If you wanna get THAT technical. "I do not HAVE to drive"
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Bahamut.Kara
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2014-02-26 16:15:50
"That was in 2012, Despite holding that the Commerce Clause and the Necessary and Proper Clause do not support the constitutionality of the individual mandate, the Court found that the mandate could be sustained under Congress's taxing power."
Your own quote I may add. The ACA should have went back to the house and senate to be modified, it did not. The president did it. The President is in the process of being sued over his overreach of powers btw.
Yes, I know what was in the quote.
The DoJ had several arguments as to why the individual mandate was constitutional. Like I said the Commerce Clause was not upheld but the mandate could be upheld under Congress's taxing power. What mandate do you think they are referring to in that sentence?
From the court opinion:
Quote: CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS delivered the opinion of the Court with respect to Part III–Concluding that the individual mandate may be upheld as within Congress’s power under the Taxing Clause.
The ACA had already passed; it was signed into law in 2010. You don't send a law back to congress after it has already passed.
There are many lawsuits currently ongoing dealing with the ACA.
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Server: Asura
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-02-26 16:20:06
There are many lawsuits currently ongoing dealing with the ACA. and they keep growing, aren't they?
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
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Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-02-26 16:22:14
how does auto insurance compare to health insurance?
Last I checked my health affected absolutely nobody but me.
I've never heard of a drunk person crashing into another drunk person, IN a bar and they had to exchange health insurance information because they both went to the hospital for stitches.
That sounds stupid as hell, and it is. So is the argument "well you have to have auto ins." If you wanna get THAT technical. "I do not HAVE to drive" Hmm, I think I found the problem here.
You don't see any benefit to a society with easier access to healthcare? It would be easier if every man were an island and his poor decisions only affected himself, but that is not the case.
Aside from that, it's just the *** decent thing to do.
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Bismarck.Ihina
Server: Bismarck
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Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-02-26 16:23:46
Sounds like someone doesn't like the smell of freedom in the morning.
Bahamut.Milamber
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3692
By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-02-26 16:25:43
And guess what, it is the state that mandates it, not the federal government.
So if the state that someone mandates that has to buy insurance, rather than federal government, then that's OK!
Can you opt out of buying the insurance? Yes.
Will you pay a fee because of it? Yes.
Are you stupid for doing that? Yes.
Can you opt out of driving? Conceivably, yes.
Can you work to have the legislation changed? Conceivably, yes. To date, no.
Can you opt out of buying health insurance? Yes.
Will you pay a fee because of it? Yes.
Are you stupid for doing that? Yes.
Can you opt out of living in the US? Conceivably, yes.
Can you work to have the legislation changed? Conceivably, yes. To date, no.
Server: Asura
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-02-26 16:26:29
how does auto insurance compare to health insurance?
Last I checked my health affected absolutely nobody but me.
I've never heard of a drunk person crashing into another drunk person, IN a bar and they had to exchange health insurance information because they both went to the hospital for stitches.
That sounds stupid as hell, and it is. So is the argument "well you have to have auto ins." If you wanna get THAT technical. "I do not HAVE to drive" Hmm, I think I found the problem here.
You don't see any benefit to a society with easier access to healthcare? It would be easier if every man were an island and his poor decisions only affected himself, but that is not the case.
Aside from that, it's just the *** decent thing to do. And force those who already have insurance to pay more into it to pay for those who stiff the bill at the end?
Or those who are able to pay their own bills to pay more into a system that is not a solution, but creates a larger problem?
And you think that's the decent thing to do?
Bismarck.Killamexe
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8
By Bismarck.Killamexe 2014-02-26 16:27:16
He's trying to say that if you drive a car, you need auto insurance.
Another socialist lie
idk where you live but in MD if you have a registered vehicle that has tags on it (which correct me if I'm wrong but all cars on the road need to be tagged by some state or you cant be on the road "anywhere" and there is a "fine/penalty" for doing so, I am fully aware that there are exceptions like work trucks on a farm, but it seems to me that the argument that you are making is more of a general one) and it is not insured the "penalty" is 2x what my insurance is.
Can you drive a car without it? Sure. Does it make sense to? I suppose that depends on the "penalty" vs cost of insurance.
Again this is only for MD. Id like to know if there is a state that does not fine you for having a registered and tagged vehicle that is not insured.
Not trying to say that im all about having insurance or agree with it at all but if they are going to fine you and the cost is less than the fine, id call that a "need".
http://conventionofstates.com/
http://www.capitalisminstitute.org/media-ignoring-nullification/
Kinda odd that the states are unprecedentedly standing up against such a wonderful president that only wants to help with his executive powers and pen.
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