|
(CA) K-12 Transgender Law Repeal
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-11-12 16:24:22
One, I wasn't talking to you as you're impossible to debate with. Two, despite the general obsession in this thread, this is about more than just flashing your *** to a trans woman. It's very likely that a transgendered man or woman wouldn't place themselves in that particular situation. Three, if you feel uncomfortable around gay men, that's your *** problem, not mine.
And finally, four,
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-11-12 16:26:41
OH GOD NO ONE MOVE MAYBE HE WILL GO AWAY
Lakshmi.Zerowone
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6949
By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2013-11-12 16:27:08
WAIT WHO?
Edit*: Oh that guy who is not comfortable with society growing or understanding how awkward social experiences are liken to growing pains. yeah that guy.. let me go post somewhere else it will distract him for awhile.
Caitsith.Zahrah
Server: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-11-12 16:27:38
My moral dilemma...Do I [+] for Jenna Maroney despite the "kill yourself" part?
/ponders
[+]
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-11-12 16:31:12
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5381
By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-11-12 16:31:49
For those who can't understand liberalspeak, here is a translation for you: If you don't agree with me, I'll just call you stupid.
I sympathize honestly. This is a different matter than marriage equality and acceptance of homosexuality. Heterosexuals weren't being forced to witness homosexuality or get married to same-sex partners.
We're taking about showers, restrooms- it's a completely different level of forced tolerance. As Dr. Blanchard put it, Ashman is being forced to take part in "their movie."
There needs to be a level of sympathy from both sides of the fence for such a matter to progress.
[+]
Alexander.Carrelo
Server: Alexander
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3706
By Alexander.Carrelo 2013-11-12 16:31:52
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »Alexander.Carrelo said: »which were dismissed early on by several people in this thread. Partially because it's semi-irrelavent. The law extends beyond restrooms.
Edit:Flavin beat me to the punch. Wait, did you think I was advocating unisex bathrooms as a solution to zomg all transgender issues evar? That's absurd. D: I'm not even calling it a solution to the part of this debate that is about bathrooms (and to which it is quite relevant, by the way).
They were brought up during the discussion, I commented. They're useful to a lot of people, transgender or otherwise. It would be nice to have more. That's it, ya'll.
[+]
Caitsith.Zahrah
Server: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-11-12 16:35:03
Meh...You could have kept it, just didn't want you to get reported or topicbanned.
[+]
Lakshmi.Zerowone
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6949
By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2013-11-12 16:36:17
Meh...You could have kept it, just didn't want you to get reported or topicbanned.
you can get topic banned for something as inocuous as that?
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-11-12 16:37:44
Potentially is "hate speech" so I suppose it's bannable..better safe than sorry anyway.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-11-12 16:39:30
One, I wasn't talking to you as you're impossible to debate with. Two, despite the general obsession in this thread, this is about more than just flashing your *** to a trans woman. It's very likely that a transgendered man or woman wouldn't place themselves in that particular situation. Three, if you feel uncomfortable around gay men, that's your *** problem, not mine.
And finally, four, 1) Again, can't come up with a response, so you will just ignore the other person. Who's being closed-minded again?
2) Then why are you so focused on that?
3) Who said I was uncomfortable? I have friends who are gay, and I don't give a flying *** about it. The only ones who are uncomfortable are the ones having an issue in the first place (aka the crybabies of the world).
4) Yes, you should do that.
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2013-11-12 16:39:59
god damn it, can't I work for a bit without missing something?
pleebo if you get a free minute, pm me whatever you were posting!
no worries if not.
[+]
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-11-12 16:42:31
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »For those who can't understand liberalspeak, here is a translation for you: If you don't agree with me, I'll just call you stupid.
I sympathize honestly. This is a different matter than marriage equality and acceptance of homosexuality. Heterosexuals weren't being forced to witness homosexuality or get married to same-sex partners.
We're taking about showers, restrooms- it's a completely different level of forced tolerance. As Dr. Blanchard put it, Ashman is being forced to take part in "their movie."
There needs to be a level of sympathy from both sides of the fence for such a matter to progress. When it comes to everything else, I don't give a rat's ***.
When it comes to private situations, like taking a shower or taking a dump, I rather not have people watching me. I generally use a stall or wait until I get home. But some people in public like to show off their thing like they are proud of it. It's usually those that got it for the first time that does it in public too...at least in SA it is...
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-11-12 16:46:27
Yeah, it probably crossed a line. Zah is apparently my moral center.
I'm so ***.
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2013-11-12 16:46:33
[+]
Lakshmi.Zerowone
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6949
By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2013-11-12 16:47:00
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »For those who can't understand liberalspeak, here is a translation for you: If you don't agree with me, I'll just call you stupid.
I sympathize honestly. This is a different matter than marriage equality and acceptance of homosexuality. Heterosexuals weren't being forced to witness homosexuality or get married to same-sex partners.
We're taking about showers, restrooms- it's a completely different level of forced tolerance. As Dr. Blanchard put it, Ashman is being forced to take part in "their movie."
There needs to be a level of sympathy from both sides of the fence for such a matter to progress. When it comes to everything else, I don't give a rat's ***.
When it comes to private situations, like taking a shower or taking a dump, I rather not have people watching me. I generally use a stall or wait until I get home. But some people in public like to show off their thing like they are proud of it. It's usually those that got it for the first time that does it in public too...at least in SA it is...
Mind blown.
You got people with new *** running around San Antonio showing off like chicks who got a new pair of fake ***? Assemble the News Team NAO
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5381
By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-11-12 16:49:53
I generally use a stall or wait until I get home. But some people in public like to show off their thing like they are proud of it.
Are you sure you weren't at a gay bathhouse? Next think you know you're going to be saying people are doing jack-off shows on Tuesdays!
Like seriously what public restroom or locker-room facility do men "show-off" to one another. I kinda wanna know!
Garuda.Chanti
Server: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11867
By Garuda.Chanti 2013-11-12 16:51:29
.... saying masturbation or pulling out is murder....
This is the official position of several churches. I think the Roman Catholic church no longer holds this position, but I am not at all sure they have disowned it.
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »....
Like seriously what public restroom or locker-room facility do men "show-off" to one another. I kinda wanna know!
Some gay bars. A few even have the trough style urinal with a strategically placed mirror
[+]
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-11-12 16:52:37
I read "SA" as "Saudi Arabia" which made the image a lot more entertaining.
[+]
Cerberus.Tikal
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4947
By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-11-12 16:53:25
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »Like seriously what public restroom or locker-room facility do men "show-off" to one another. I kinda wanna know!
Caitsith.Zahrah
Server: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-11-12 16:53:26
Yeah, it probably crossed a line. Zah is apparently my moral center.
I'm so ***.
You can still bring the fun even when you're trying to get your point across. Nobody wants to lose that.
You are. You really are, if that's the case. :/
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2013-11-12 16:54:38
You got people with new *** running around San Antonio
c'mon, cut em' some slack. If I got a new ***, the first thing I would do is show up here, & go "HHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYY GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGUUUUUUUUUUUUUYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYSSSSSSSSSS LLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKIIIIIIIIEEEEE HERE!!!!"""
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-11-12 16:54:57
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »Like seriously what public restroom or lockerroom facility do men "show-off" to one another. I kinda wanna know! I don't know if it counts but boys in middle school would go to the bathroom with their rulers daily and then come back to class debating progress and mocking those who were lagging behind in the growth.
Classy people.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-11-12 16:58:34
Yeah, it probably crossed a line. Zah is apparently my moral center.
I'm so ***.
You can still bring the fun even when you're trying to get your point across. Nobody wants to lose that.
You are. You really are, if that's the case. :/
 Band name idea:
The New ***
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5381
By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-11-12 17:07:02
I don't know if it counts but boys in middle school would go to the bathroom with their rulers daily and then come back to class debating progress and mocking those who were lagging behind in the growth.
Classy people.
"Oh, the hell with this... Lois, get the ruler. We're measuring again, and this time, I decide where the base is."
[+]
Lakshmi.Zerowone
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6949
By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2013-11-12 17:09:53
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »Like seriously what public restroom or lockerroom facility do men "show-off" to one another. I kinda wanna know! I don't know if it counts but boys in middle school would go to the bathroom with their rulers daily and then come back to class debating progress and mocking those who were lagging behind in the growth.
Classy people.
you went to xhamster middle school?
edit: (probably not forum appropiate so strike through!)
When I was in the 6th grade there was this one guy that did that and even pee'd on another student in the gym showers. Needless to say we didnt see that guy again after that day.
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2013-11-12 17:13:37
Jeez this thread blew up.
I haven't seen guys showing their *** for the lulz since High School locker rooms.
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-11-12 17:15:33
Had a friend with the tactic "wanna see my Maradona tatoo?" *drops pants*
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2013-11-12 17:18:57
Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby said: »It's all about letting freaks set the norms, hence California. People need to grow up and keep their mental disorders to themselves or at least quit seeking special protections. Normality served us well for millenia.
How is Stormfront doing these days?
[+]
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5381
By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-11-12 17:25:29
I think what some conservatives in this thread need to process is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders(DSM-V) backs transgender students and the provision of using the particular M or F facility for which they identify. That holds a considerable amount of weight. They can huff and puff all they want but as it stands gender dysphoria is a mental condition and can require provisions deemed by their psychiatrist.
The DSM-V's involvement in this matter important to note, because the DSM-V never backed same-sex marriage. One couldn't say that same-sex marriage was part of the treatment of homosexuality, because homosexuality doesn't require treatment. However, transexualism is a different case.
Quote: The APA’s manual of mental disorders is the nexus of the psycho-pharmaceutical industrial complex in the United States. Its reach extends into the workings of insurance companies, criminal courts, and psychiatric care worldwide.
How the Psychiatrist Who Co-Wrote the Manual on Sex Talks About Sex
Good article to read cause Dr. Ray Blanchard helped write the current DSM-V particularly the portion regarding gender dysphoria and transexualism
So how does a K-12 institution accommodate these medical provisions, without upsetting everyone? Or is that impossible?
[+]
Calif. Transgender Law Repeal Will Qualify
Quote: SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — Opponents of a new California law that gives transgender students certain rights said Sunday that they had collected enough signatures for an initiative that would repeal the law.
A coalition of conservative groups called Privacy for all Students submitted 620,000 signatures to get the initiative on the November 2014 ballot, said Frank Schubert, the political strategist handling the signature gathering effort.
To qualify, at least 505,000 valid signatures must be submitted. To verify the signatures, each of California’s 58 counties will first check that the overall count is correct, then conduct a random sampling to make sure they are legitimate. After that, it is likely the state would order a full review.
If, after all of the reviews, the group has the requisite number of valid signatures, the initiative would qualify for the ballot.
“Many people said we had no chance to collect over half a million signatures in just 90 days, but we have proven them wrong by gathering over 115,000 more signatures than the minimum needed,” Gina Gleason of the group Faith and Public Policy, said in a statement.
California is the first state to pass a law detailing the rights of transgender K-12 students.
One of the provisions gives transgender students the choice of playing on either boys or girls sports teams. It also allows them to choose which restroom that want to use.
Gov. Jerry Brown signed the law, AB1266, in September. It goes into effect Jan. 1.
The goal of the law is to reduce discrimination against transgender students.
John O’Connor, executive director of Equality California, the organization that co-sponsored the transgender student law, said he was alarmed by the initiative effort.
“Protecting this law is our number one priority, and we will put everything we’ve got into it,” O’Connor said, adding that he believes public opinion is opposed to discrimination against LGBT people.
The effort to repeal the law got a boost last month when the National Organization for Marriage, which organized the 2008 ballot initiative that outlawed gay marriage in California, joined the effort.
Schubert, who helped organize the signature push, previously led successful campaigns to block same-sex marriage in Maine and North Carolina.
Supporters of the repeal effort argue the law violates the privacy of non-transgender students.
They said 400,000 of the signatures gathered were done by volunteers, as opposed to 220,000 collected by paid staff.
“It shows the degree of opposition that exists to opening the most vulnerable areas of public schools to the opposite sex,” Karen England of Capitol Resources Institute, a coalition member, said in a statement.
This whole story reminds me of the scene from Gun Hill Road, and the transgender student takes the key to the girls restroom everytime and the teacher lectures her parents about it.
I'm perfectly fine with this so long as they are formally diagnosed transgenders(regarding the restroom issue). I'm wondering if K-12 institutions can request that information from their physician or if it falls under patient confidentiality? If anyone could shed light on that- much appreciated :)
I think it's awesome about the sports teams, I think they should apply it to non-trans students too. I knew several girls who wanted to play on the wrestling team in HS and they had the size to back it up.
Quite sad that Veterans Day in California has turned into a rally against transgenders.
|
|