|
|
(CA) K-12 Transgender Law Repeal
 Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-11-12 14:52:54
That was a bit of a late night angry rant directed more at these traditional values organizations so I can see how harsh it sounds, but I stick to the underlying point that acknowledgement of the complexity of an issue such as transgender makes people uncomfortable, which in turn can lead to avoidance or outright denial.
You know it's because I'm secretly attracted to you and it's causing me conflict and frustration to come to terms with it.
I still think it's absurd to inconvenience 999/1000 to accommodate the 1/1000. I mean really that's all we're doing right? 1 person feels uncomfortable so we make at least half the rest of the population uncomfortable (I think that's a conservative estimate).
Is it something infringing on their rights/wellbeing? No? oh.... it's just that they don't have to be subject to possibly seeing someone else's whoohoo? We already confirmed that it's totally not a big deal if the TG sees MY junk right? So it's not a big deal if they stay right where they are and quit whining. It's an inconvenience that exists in your head. A transgender woman (if you even knew that they were) would likely opt for a stall or even to stay in the women's facilities to avoid any uncomfortableness. The wording of the law is not some forced integration. It offers a simple choice, which is probably the best way to allow policy to evolve alongside societal acceptance.
Also curious why you're more comfortable with a gay man looking at your penis than a woman who identifies as a (presumably) straight man.
[+]
 Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-11-12 14:56:15
I would imagine this is about changing rooms and showers? Cause like Liela says, the restroom is closed to begin with, so I don't see why the transgender should feel uncomfortable in a place where you're supposed to be isolated anyway...
However I have to say that I agree with those who say that the inconvenience of one can't become the inconvenience of many others. Mind you I don't personally care, as I'm comfortable undressing in front of any human or animal being(except cats, they stare too much), but considering not everyone is as easy-going the peace of the majority can't be hurt by the comfort of one. Then if the pressure for the transgender person is too heavy they can just ask to change clothes in another random room or just wait and be the last...doesn't have to be such a big deal.
p.s. that is if we're talking about gender identity and not actual sex change..sorry if I seem so unsure about which is what, but pages reading Saevel's posts burnt my brain.
[+]
 Caitsith.Zahrah
Server: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-11-12 14:56:31
Well, most people can distinguish between anatomical context and sexual context by the time their adults. Nudity does not automatically equate to lust.
[+]
 Alexander.Carrelo
Server: Alexander
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3706
By Alexander.Carrelo 2013-11-12 14:56:46
One thing that seems to have been missed is that we can provide unisex bathrooms without getting rid of the men's/women's rooms. The main feature of these rooms would be that they are private, not that they are unisex.
The vast majority of us would still be using the old separated bathrooms, but anyone wanting a little more privacy would have that option. Whether you're transgender or you just need to take an especially thorough ***, everyone has a potential use for a private bathroom now and then. There should be more of them.
Caitsith.Zahrah
Server: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-11-12 15:03:28
Alexander.Carrelo said: »One thing that seems to have been missed is that we can provide unisex bathrooms without getting rid of the men's/women's rooms. The main feature of these rooms would be that they are private, not that they are unisex.
The vast majority of us would still be using the old separated bathrooms, but anyone wanting a little more privacy would have that option. Whether you're transgender or you just need to take an especially thorough ***, everyone has a potential use for a private bathroom now and then. There should be more of them.
Some businesses already provide the restroom that accommodates to families or nursing mothers. I've seen plenty of people sans-child/ren in tow sneaking in and out of those. LOL!
I could see a potential uproar about that though. Nobody would have to know the details of their gender. They would just run the risk of getting the stink-eye from the mothers in line. No one is the wiser though.
EDIT: I would have never thought about this until now, but I'd be just fine and dandy in my blissful ignorance knowing at least it wasn't some *** that stuffed his face with Taco Bell at the food court who ducked into the family bathroom. You learn to keep Glade in a diaperbag.
Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2013-11-12 15:05:23
The question then becomes why do we have seperate bathrooms in the first place? Is it the functionality of the setup, a privacy thing or something else? At least half of the bathrooms (that I have been in) in Denmark are unisex. Quite a few bathrooms in college dorms in the US are unisex, including showering areas (not group showers but seperate stalls). For unisex anything I see its usually a one toilet situation and I've never seen the unisex showers... not saying they don't exist... but yeah...
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-11-12 15:06:55
They pooped and showered together on the Galactica and that's good enough for me.
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5381
By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-11-12 15:12:06
Alexander.Carrelo said: »One thing that seems to have been missed is that we can provide unisex bathrooms without getting rid of the men's/women's rooms. The main feature of these rooms would be that they are private, not that they are unisex.
The vast majority of us would still be using the old separated bathrooms, but anyone wanting a little more privacy would have that option. Whether you're transgender or you just need to take an especially thorough ***, everyone has a potential use for a private bathroom now and then. There should be more of them.
Unisex restrooms is kinda just sweeping the issue under the rug. Ultimately, the issue really isn't being resolved nor even addressed. The issue at hand is that individuals be able to use K-12 facilities(this extends beyond just restrooms including lockers rooms, showers) that they feel matches their gender identity, regardless of what gender is printed on the student's school file.
 Lakshmi.Zerowone
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6949
By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2013-11-12 15:12:14
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »The homosexual men that are posting in this thread as proponents of this law are very one dimensional in their approach. They are exclusively referring to young gay men who identify themselves as girls having the right to be themselves and dwell in such places as the girls bathroom and locker room. You obviously don't know that I'm the conservative homosexual of these forums. I'm the gay male version of Elisabeth Hasselbeck.
I do not like the wording of this law. I think it, as it stands, needs major revisions. However, I believe it is a step in the right direction.
I've been reading the last few pages and there is a huge confusion about genotype sex vs phenotype vs gender identity. They are three different, but nonetheless, inter-related concepts.
Lol at the Elisabeth Hasslebeck reference.
I wasn't meaning to be offensive. We're all conditioned to receive words a certain way with respect to where/who they originate from, and we how perceive them.
I was just saying to a certain extent there appears to be a one sided approach to the issue in the threads discussion. Could have chose better words? Yes I probably could have.
The last couple of pages have been a clusterfuck of science being utilized to fit agendas and personal perspectives. With the occasional glimmer of wit and clever snark. I'm surprised no one has turned my post about sperm fighting with each other into evidence that there is life before conception.. which would be fun to watch happen but I wouldn't agree with it since it would be akin to saying masturbation or pulling out is murder. I'm also surprised at how hostile it got between two posters. I mean like wow.
Personally I don't have an agenda with the issue in that I don't have a kid, I no longer live in California. My only hesitation is that I don't think it's an easy transition. Having gone to high school in the 90's in LA it was present but it wasn't an issue, like it is now. It was slightly ignored but at the same time people weren't messed with for being who they are. Girls had a better time than boys but we all knew who the effeminate guys were based on their mannerisms and their avoidance of groups of male peers in regular day to day activity. But nobody forced anybody to be the way they thought a person should be. People just adapted to the world they were thrust in and got through it.
But having traveled I have found that the rest of the world isn't like LA. People cling to old school notions. I find that people are reluctant and make a bigger issue of things than what they really are, especially when they feel it's being forced on them.
My fiance for instance teaches on a reservation where you have to be mindful of the hosts cultural proclivities and help encourage them. For instance boys like the color pink a lot. It doesn't make them gay/homosexual/prone to homoeroticism, not in the least bit. It's considered a warrior's color. They are also taught to respect a group called the "berdache", a french term used to label, their cultures "third gender" type.
A lot of these kids have issues when they get to middle school because they are no longer being taught on the reservation and have to amalgamate, intergrate, assimilate or whatever -ate floats your boat into the culture that is dominant at their new school.
Simple things from colors to respect for gender types/persuasions run into conflict since that ideology is not respected by the dominating culture at the school. It's a real culture shock that happens to these kids and they are not the group people would think fall into a parallel example to the topic discussion.
But with respect to coming from an environment that nurtures open mindedness to one that nurtures close mindedness there is a parallel. Not a major one in relation to the topic at hand, but it is there. This could also be said for transgendered children moving forward and out of environments where they are nurtured. There is always something that's going to cause conflict and they may not be properlly prepared for it.
/end_catharsis_post_that_will_surely_rile_someone_somewhere.
Alexander.Carrelo
Server: Alexander
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3706
By Alexander.Carrelo 2013-11-12 15:12:26
That was a bit of a late night angry rant directed more at these traditional values organizations so I can see how harsh it sounds, but I stick to the underlying point that acknowledgement of the complexity of an issue such as transgender makes people uncomfortable, which in turn can lead to avoidance or outright denial.
You know it's because I'm secretly attracted to you and it's causing me conflict and frustration to come to terms with it.
I still think it's absurd to inconvenience 999/1000 to accommodate the 1/1000. I mean really that's all we're doing right? 1 person feels uncomfortable so we make at least half the rest of the population uncomfortable (I think that's a conservative estimate).
Is it something infringing on their rights/wellbeing? No? oh.... it's just that they don't have to be subject to possibly seeing someone else's whoohoo? We already confirmed that it's totally not a big deal if the TG sees MY junk right? So it's not a big deal if they stay right where they are and quit whining. It's an inconvenience that exists in your head. A transgender woman (if you even knew that they were) would likely opt for a stall or even to stay in the women's facilities to avoid any uncomfortableness. The wording of the law is not some forced integration. It offers a simple choice, which is probably the best way to allow policy to evolve alongside societal acceptance.
Also curious why you're more comfortable with a gay man looking at your penis than a woman who identifies as a (presumably) straight man. As an aside to this comment, who is actually looking around in a public restroom anyway? I actually am gay and honestly can't remember the last time I saw someone's penis in a public bathroom, even accidentally. I'm certainly never interested enough to bother looking.
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-11-12 15:16:09
Really? Hmm, perhaps if I want to blend in I should stop bringing this stuff into the bathroom with me and setting it up by the urinals:
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2013-11-12 15:17:53
Silly people worried about people staring at eachothers junk in the bathroom. I'm more disturbed by the number of people who don't wash their hands before leaving!
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-11-12 15:20:59
Alexander.Carrelo said: »As an aside to this comment, who is actually looking around in a public restroom anyway? Cruisers and creepers!
Ragnarok.Ashman
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4252
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2013-11-12 15:28:34
That was a bit of a late night angry rant directed more at these traditional values organizations so I can see how harsh it sounds, but I stick to the underlying point that acknowledgement of the complexity of an issue such as transgender makes people uncomfortable, which in turn can lead to avoidance or outright denial.
You know it's because I'm secretly attracted to you and it's causing me conflict and frustration to come to terms with it.
I still think it's absurd to inconvenience 999/1000 to accommodate the 1/1000. I mean really that's all we're doing right? 1 person feels uncomfortable so we make at least half the rest of the population uncomfortable (I think that's a conservative estimate).
Is it something infringing on their rights/wellbeing? No? oh.... it's just that they don't have to be subject to possibly seeing someone else's whoohoo? We already confirmed that it's totally not a big deal if the TG sees MY junk right? So it's not a big deal if they stay right where they are and quit whining.
First off why are you so paranoid of someone seeing your junk?
*also long wall of text that i did read*
I have no problem with "someone". I played highschool football. We used to soap up the floor and do naked butt slides across the floor. We would do this game where you grab your *ahem* by the base and spin it in circles like a fan.
I have a problem with a female seeing my *cough* (regardless of what she thinks she is, or pretends to think she is *based on the case*) because i was raised that way. I also don't scratch my junk in public or pick my swimsuit out of my *** if someone is looking. There is supposed to be somewhat of a mystery between the sexes (regardless of their perceived gender).
My opinion has absolutely nothing to do with sexual preference. I just that inconveniencing the incredibly vast majority to minorly convenience a radical minority is not only debated, but commonplace.
This isn't a 1 in 4 thing. It's not even a 1 in 100. Just glancing at the wiki junk on some of the "conditions" you guys are bringing up it's not even 1 in 1000. Just because she (who thinks shes a he) doesn't wanna pee pee in the same room as the same gender as her (on the outside or whatever). You know, but if i say I don't want her in MY bathroom, you're outraged.
cool bro.
[+]
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5381
By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-11-12 15:28:34
I was just saying to a certain extent there appears to be a one sided approach to the issue in the threads discussion. Could have chose better words? Yes I probably could have.
The last couple of pages have been a clusterfuck of science being utilized to fit agendas and personal perspectives. I know for a fact a number of gays on this forum don't agree with my views on transgender surgical procedures(which btw is not applicable to this thread whatsoever), however I think when it comes to what a transgender is we all see eye-to-eye.
I have a number of friends who are gay(drag queens) and transgenders MTF. I know they(MTF) aren't living out that lifestyle by choice, they really do feel they are a woman, which is quite different from a gay man who can easily take that dress off and live his life as a man. No one is going to go out of their house in a wig and a dress just to be mocked by members of the public.
Quote: I think there are some glaring differences between acceptance of transsexualism and acceptance of homosexuality. Let’s say that a friend comes to you and says she's a lesbian, you aren’t seeing your friend performing cunnilingus on her girlfriend. All this requires is acceptance of what you don’t have to see.
With transsexualism, if a friend comes to you and says I feel like I’m actually a woman, and starting tomorrow I’m going to be showing up wearing dresses, this is not happening offstage, you are now part of their movie. -Dr. Ray Blanchard, Sexologist
Alexander.Carrelo
Server: Alexander
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3706
By Alexander.Carrelo 2013-11-12 15:29:49
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »Alexander.Carrelo said: »One thing that seems to have been missed is that we can provide unisex bathrooms without getting rid of the men's/women's rooms. The main feature of these rooms would be that they are private, not that they are unisex.
The vast majority of us would still be using the old separated bathrooms, but anyone wanting a little more privacy would have that option. Whether you're transgender or you just need to take an especially thorough ***, everyone has a potential use for a private bathroom now and then. There should be more of them.
Unisex restrooms is kinda just sweeping the issue under the rug. Ultimately, the issue really isn't being resolved nor even addressed. The issue at hand is that individuals be able to use K-12 facilities(this extends beyond just restrooms including lockers rooms, showers) that they feel matches their gender identity, regardless of what gender is printed on the student's school file. I've already told you that I support the student's right to choose where to go to the bathroom lol
That doesn't mean that a) we shouldn't try to take small steps toward progress in the meantime and b) that there isn't a demographic that prefers to use a unisex bathroom.
Many transgender people see unisex bathrooms as the most comfortable option because there is no risk of unwanted attention from people in either the men's or the women's room. There are also people who are unsure about their gender and others who identify as neither a man nor a woman. Unisex bathrooms should be an option for all of these people (and any "shameful shitters" who need a little extra privacy). That's all I'm sayin'.
Ragnarok.Ashman
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4252
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2013-11-12 15:38:25
Also curious why you're more comfortable with a gay man looking at your penis than a woman who identifies as a (presumably) straight man.
Because I don't care what the men (gay or straight) think. They're off my "radar" as it were. He might see something he likes, but it's irrelevant because I'm not wired that way. I am completely comfortable in my sexuality so I have no adverse feelings toward a gay man "checking me out" similar to how a girl will sometimes ask a girlfriend about her boobs (how does this look? etc).
However, if "Pat" comes into the bathroom/shower/facility where I am potentially disrobing (particularly the shower), I am going to become naturally uncomfortable. I am geared to think a female seeing my body is judging a mate (not consciously obviously) but I happen to be self-conscious about feeling "judged". Ironically if i were a woman saying "i don't want some gender confused dude coming in the bathroom and ogling my *** in the shower" you wouldn't question me at all.
Ragnarok.Ashman
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4252
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2013-11-12 15:45:48
Alexander.Carrelo said: »Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »Alexander.Carrelo said: »One thing that seems to have been missed is that we can provide unisex bathrooms without getting rid of the men's/women's rooms. The main feature of these rooms would be that they are private, not that they are unisex.
The vast majority of us would still be using the old separated bathrooms, but anyone wanting a little more privacy would have that option. Whether you're transgender or you just need to take an especially thorough ***, everyone has a potential use for a private bathroom now and then. There should be more of them.
Unisex restrooms is kinda just sweeping the issue under the rug. Ultimately, the issue really isn't being resolved nor even addressed. The issue at hand is that individuals be able to use K-12 facilities(this extends beyond just restrooms including lockers rooms, showers) that they feel matches their gender identity, regardless of what gender is printed on the student's school file. I've already told you that I support the student's right to choose where to go to the bathroom lol
That doesn't mean that a) we shouldn't try to take small steps toward progress in the meantime and b) that there isn't a demographic that prefers to use a unisex bathroom.
Many transgender people see unisex bathrooms as the most comfortable option because there is no risk of unwanted attention from people in either the men's or the women's room. There are also people who are unsure about their gender and others who identify as neither a man nor a woman. Unisex bathrooms should be an option for all of these people (and any "shameful shitters" who need a little extra privacy). That's all I'm sayin'.
I entirely agree here, however, I don't remember seeing ANYplace that had a "single serve" bathroom in a school. Like ever. In my life.
Converting all the states public schools to this (or adding a seperate facility) to all existing schools is ridiculous.
*edit* not saying that you're ridiculous, just saying it's a huge waste of money for the "problem" it's solving.
[+]
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5381
By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-11-12 15:49:04
Alexander.Carrelo said: »Many transgender people see unisex bathrooms as the most comfortable option because there is no risk of unwanted attention from people in either the men's or the women's room.
Ok that's sweeping the issue under the rug. You are catering to the majority simply to avoid unwanted attention. That isn't a solution, that's avoiding the issue all-together.
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-11-12 15:49:27
In my highschool we had restrooms for both sexes, however one was out of order forever so we all used the same one lol.
Discrete unisex inception!
[+]
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-11-12 15:50:24
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »The question then becomes why do we have seperate bathrooms in the first place? Is it the functionality of the setup, a privacy thing or something else? At least half of the bathrooms (that I have been in) in Denmark are unisex.
Quite a few bathrooms in college dorms in the US are unisex, including showering areas (not group showers but seperate stalls).
Yup, my sisters campus has unisex bathrooms/showers/locker rooms and last I checked no ones raping people on a constant basis. Nor are the males whispering into the ears of women "natural selection" before fondling someone or the females screaming "RAAAAPE" the minute a guy looks at her.
It seems the most prudish and sexually repressed people in our society are the ones who arrive at the fallacious conclusion that both sexes can't keep their hands to themselves. That is because they can be easily identified. It isn't hard to figure out who was in what bathroom at what time of the day, everywhere on campus is covered with cameras, so it would be easy to pick out the suspect.
It might even work for apartment complexes where a limited number of people would use the same shower/bathroom in larger cities (NYC) and such where there is a community bathroom.
But in a side street public restroom where anyone can go when they please and you have a couple of million suspects to sift through, yeah, not so much. And that is what we are talking about too!
Want to start the project of seeing how people react to a unisex bathroom out in the open? What better place to start than Chicago.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-11-12 15:52:12
Nudity does not automatically equate to lust. That's cause they are damn ugly to begin with!
Most women in S. Texas are hot though!
[+]
Caitsith.Zahrah
Server: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-11-12 15:54:58
Also curious why you're more comfortable with a gay man looking at your penis than a woman who identifies as a (presumably) straight man.
Because I don't care what the men (gay or straight) think. They're off my "radar" as it were. He might see something he likes, but it's irrelevant because I'm not wired that way. I am completely comfortable in my sexuality so I have no adverse feelings toward a gay man "checking me out" similar to how a girl will sometimes ask a girlfriend about her boobs (how does this look? etc).
However, if "Pat" comes into the bathroom/shower/facility where I am potentially disrobing (particularly the shower), I am going to become naturally uncomfortable. I am geared to think a female seeing my body is judging a mate (not consciously obviously) but I happen to be self-conscious about feeling "judged". Ironically if i were a woman saying "i don't want some gender confused dude coming in the bathroom and ogling my *** in the shower" you wouldn't question me at all.
Now I'm officially confused. Is this pre-op Pat or post-op Pat?
[+]
Alexander.Carrelo
Server: Alexander
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3706
By Alexander.Carrelo 2013-11-12 16:01:25
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »Ok that's sweeping the issue under the rug. You are catering to the majority simply to avoid unwanted attention. That isn't a solution, that's avoiding the issue all-together. I am decidedly not catering to the majority. The point is that, given the option to use the men's room, the women's room, or a unisex bathroom, many transgender people will still choose the unisex bathroom. You might make the argument that they are catering to the majority in this case, but it is still a valid choice on their part.
This is not an argument against opening up the men's and women's rooms to transgender students. It is nothing more than an argument in favor of unisex bathrooms, which were dismissed early on by several people in this thread.
Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2013-11-12 16:01:49
Bathrooms aren't the only things that this would pertain to either...
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2013-11-12 16:04:50
I'm still not seeing how anything this pertains to really relates to transgenderism. Identifying as a girl doesn't make you physically equal to the other girls on the soccer team. Identifying as a boy doesn't make you capable of using urinals. The bathroom thing might not be explicitly harmful, but it is placing the transgender's comfort over hundreds of non-trans people's. The same people who say rape isn't an issue, there are stalls, etc.. why doesn't this apply to the trans person as well?
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-11-12 16:05:03
Also curious why you're more comfortable with a gay man looking at your penis than a woman who identifies as a (presumably) straight man.
Because I don't care what the men (gay or straight) think. They're off my "radar" as it were. He might see something he likes, but it's irrelevant because I'm not wired that way. I am completely comfortable in my sexuality so I have no adverse feelings toward a gay man "checking me out" similar to how a girl will sometimes ask a girlfriend about her boobs (how does this look? etc).
However, if "Pat" comes into the bathroom/shower/facility where I am potentially disrobing (particularly the shower), I am going to become naturally uncomfortable. I am geared to think a female seeing my body is judging a mate (not consciously obviously) but I happen to be self-conscious about feeling "judged". Ironically if i were a woman saying "i don't want some gender confused dude coming in the bathroom and ogling my *** in the shower" you wouldn't question me at all. By your language, it's clear that the topic of transgenderism is a joke to you. If you don't want to be accused of being ignorant and closed-minded, don't present yourself like you are.
Your casual attitude towards gay men is indicative of the change in attitudes towards non-normative sexuality that gradually occurred through countless instances of uncomfortable situations until we got to the point where it wasn't uncomfortable anymore. It's *** progress, and in this case, it comes with the cost of a possible minor inconvenience to a small sub-population of people that knowingly interact with trans indidivuals. Instead of ducking the issue by telling others to stop whining, why don't you deduce the reason why that situation makes you uncomfortable that isn't simply 'because that's the way it is'.
[+]
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5381
By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-11-12 16:05:11
Alexander.Carrelo said: »which were dismissed early on by several people in this thread. Partially because it's semi-irrelavent. The law extends beyond restrooms.
Edit:Flavin beat me to the punch.
[+]
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-11-12 16:16:51
By your language, it's clear that the topic of transgenderism is a joke to you. If you don't want to be accused of being ignorant and closed-minded, don't present yourself like you are.
For those who can't understand liberalspeak, here is a translation for you: If you don't agree with me, I'll just call you stupid.
Quote: Your casual attitude towards gay men is indicative of the change in attitudes towards non-normative sexuality that gradually occurred through countless instances of uncomfortable situations until we got to the point where it wasn't uncomfortable anymore. It's *** progress, and in this case, it comes with the cost of a possible minor inconvenience to a small sub-population of people that knowingly interact with trans indidivuals. Instead of ducking the issue by telling others to stop whining, why don't you deduce the reason why that situation makes you uncomfortable that isn't simply 'because that's the way it is'. So, we all must be uncomfortable, as you put it, so we can all be comfortable at people looking at my junk eventually. Never mind that I still don't want men looking at my junk, but because you said so, we all must be ok with it because eventually, nobody would feel uncomfortable (except me).
And liberals are supposed to be touchy-feely types? I guess only when it pertains to their own issues. When it comes to other people outside their own little world, it is perfectly ok to commit the atrocities that you accuse the other side of doing!
[+]
Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby
Server: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 971
By Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby 2013-11-12 16:18:57
It's all about letting freaks set the norms, hence California. People need to grow up and keep their mental disorders to themselves or at least quit seeking special protections. Normality served us well for millenia.
[+]
Calif. Transgender Law Repeal Will Qualify
Quote: SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — Opponents of a new California law that gives transgender students certain rights said Sunday that they had collected enough signatures for an initiative that would repeal the law.
A coalition of conservative groups called Privacy for all Students submitted 620,000 signatures to get the initiative on the November 2014 ballot, said Frank Schubert, the political strategist handling the signature gathering effort.
To qualify, at least 505,000 valid signatures must be submitted. To verify the signatures, each of California’s 58 counties will first check that the overall count is correct, then conduct a random sampling to make sure they are legitimate. After that, it is likely the state would order a full review.
If, after all of the reviews, the group has the requisite number of valid signatures, the initiative would qualify for the ballot.
“Many people said we had no chance to collect over half a million signatures in just 90 days, but we have proven them wrong by gathering over 115,000 more signatures than the minimum needed,” Gina Gleason of the group Faith and Public Policy, said in a statement.
California is the first state to pass a law detailing the rights of transgender K-12 students.
One of the provisions gives transgender students the choice of playing on either boys or girls sports teams. It also allows them to choose which restroom that want to use.
Gov. Jerry Brown signed the law, AB1266, in September. It goes into effect Jan. 1.
The goal of the law is to reduce discrimination against transgender students.
John O’Connor, executive director of Equality California, the organization that co-sponsored the transgender student law, said he was alarmed by the initiative effort.
“Protecting this law is our number one priority, and we will put everything we’ve got into it,” O’Connor said, adding that he believes public opinion is opposed to discrimination against LGBT people.
The effort to repeal the law got a boost last month when the National Organization for Marriage, which organized the 2008 ballot initiative that outlawed gay marriage in California, joined the effort.
Schubert, who helped organize the signature push, previously led successful campaigns to block same-sex marriage in Maine and North Carolina.
Supporters of the repeal effort argue the law violates the privacy of non-transgender students.
They said 400,000 of the signatures gathered were done by volunteers, as opposed to 220,000 collected by paid staff.
“It shows the degree of opposition that exists to opening the most vulnerable areas of public schools to the opposite sex,” Karen England of Capitol Resources Institute, a coalition member, said in a statement.
This whole story reminds me of the scene from Gun Hill Road, and the transgender student takes the key to the girls restroom everytime and the teacher lectures her parents about it.
I'm perfectly fine with this so long as they are formally diagnosed transgenders(regarding the restroom issue). I'm wondering if K-12 institutions can request that information from their physician or if it falls under patient confidentiality? If anyone could shed light on that- much appreciated :)
I think it's awesome about the sports teams, I think they should apply it to non-trans students too. I knew several girls who wanted to play on the wrestling team in HS and they had the size to back it up.
Quite sad that Veterans Day in California has turned into a rally against transgenders.
|
|
