|
|
(CA) K-12 Transgender Law Repeal
 Lakshmi.Saevel
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2228
By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-11-12 11:05:10
Bismarck.Annalise said: »Bismarck.Annalise said: »If you are going to define that person as genetically female, how does one define XXY genetically? That is neither male nor female.
It's male, the SRY gene did it's job and suppressed the anti-male genes thus converting the gonads into testes inside the fetus.
The closest you can get to "no sex" the XY female whose sexual organs never developed past fetus stage. Prior to modern medical science she (technically it) would of died fairly young due to the undeveloped gonads becoming cancerous.
Quote: There is even an XY female version where the SRY didn't copy over and without it the anti-male genes are expressed and the fetus develops as a sterile female. She will never experience puberty as she's technically asexual, neither ovaries nor testes developed. She literally has no sex organs. She will also lack the hormones normally present and will require medical treatment.
Your here trying to debate all these rare mutations, all of which are sterile. The exception proves the rule.
You contradict yourself. XX which develops as a male is genetically female. However, XXY is genetically male because it develops as a male?
Read it again, very carefully. Then read the article about it, it gloss's over stuff but it's close enough. Learn the difference between genetically and phenotypically.
Here is a hint, the role of the SRY gene is the key to understanding it all.
Bismarck.Annalise
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 84
By Bismarck.Annalise 2013-11-12 11:06:16
Biological sex is much of what you described. Genetics, brain, sex organs, secondary sex characteristics, hormones, etc.
Gender is social constructs in the sense that masculinity and femininity are the traits and behaviors society deems to be male or female. An example would be that women wear skirts. Where is the biological basis for women to wear skirts? There isn't. It's socialized.
Something that is of masculine gender in one society may be feminine in another society. While not exactly a skirt, men in Scottland may wear kilts. Vastly different from gender constructs in other cultures.
That is the difference between the two.
Bismarck.Annalise
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 84
By Bismarck.Annalise 2013-11-12 11:07:32
Bismarck.Annalise said: »Bismarck.Annalise said: »If you are going to define that person as genetically female, how does one define XXY genetically? That is neither male nor female.
It's male, the SRY gene did it's job and suppressed the anti-male genes thus converting the gonads into testes inside the fetus.
The closest you can get to "no sex" the XY female whose sexual organs never developed past fetus stage. Prior to modern medical science she (technically it) would of died fairly young due to the undeveloped gonads becoming cancerous.
Quote: There is even an XY female version where the SRY didn't copy over and without it the anti-male genes are expressed and the fetus develops as a sterile female. She will never experience puberty as she's technically asexual, neither ovaries nor testes developed. She literally has no sex organs. She will also lack the hormones normally present and will require medical treatment.
Your here trying to debate all these rare mutations, all of which are sterile. The exception proves the rule.
You contradict yourself. XX which develops as a male is genetically female. However, XXY is genetically male because it develops as a male?
Read it again, very carefully. Then read the article about it, it gloss's over stuff but it's close enough. Learn the difference between genetically and phenotypically.
Here is a hint, the role of the SRY gene is the key to understanding it all.
I do understand the role of the SRY is, what a genotype is, and what a phenotype is. All I am saying is that you cannot black and white say "a male is XY and a female is XX" because it is not correct 100% of the time. Most of the time, but not all of the time.
Lakshmi.Saevel
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2228
By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-11-12 11:13:30
Bismarck.Annalise said: »Bismarck.Annalise said: »Bismarck.Annalise said: »If you are going to define that person as genetically female, how does one define XXY genetically? That is neither male nor female.
It's male, the SRY gene did it's job and suppressed the anti-male genes thus converting the gonads into testes inside the fetus.
The closest you can get to "no sex" the XY female whose sexual organs never developed past fetus stage. Prior to modern medical science she (technically it) would of died fairly young due to the undeveloped gonads becoming cancerous.
Quote: There is even an XY female version where the SRY didn't copy over and without it the anti-male genes are expressed and the fetus develops as a sterile female. She will never experience puberty as she's technically asexual, neither ovaries nor testes developed. She literally has no sex organs. She will also lack the hormones normally present and will require medical treatment.
Your here trying to debate all these rare mutations, all of which are sterile. The exception proves the rule.
You contradict yourself. XX which develops as a male is genetically female. However, XXY is genetically male because it develops as a male?
Read it again, very carefully. Then read the article about it, it gloss's over stuff but it's close enough. Learn the difference between genetically and phenotypically.
Here is a hint, the role of the SRY gene is the key to understanding it all.
I do understand the role of the SRY is, what a genotype is, and what a phenotype is. All I am saying is that you cannot black and white say "a male is XY and a female is XX" because it is not correct 100% of the time. Most of the time, but not all of the time.
Exception proves the rule.
All those genetic mutations are sterile. They are mistakes. That may hurt to hear, may even sound harsh and horrible but it's the truth.
 Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2013-11-12 11:14:56
All those genetic mutations are sterile. They are mistakes. That may hurt to hear, may even sound harsh and horrible but it's the truth.
so what's your end-game?
euthanasia?
Bismarck.Annalise
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 84
By Bismarck.Annalise 2013-11-12 11:15:31
Bismarck.Annalise said: »Bismarck.Annalise said: »Bismarck.Annalise said: »If you are going to define that person as genetically female, how does one define XXY genetically? That is neither male nor female.
It's male, the SRY gene did it's job and suppressed the anti-male genes thus converting the gonads into testes inside the fetus.
The closest you can get to "no sex" the XY female whose sexual organs never developed past fetus stage. Prior to modern medical science she (technically it) would of died fairly young due to the undeveloped gonads becoming cancerous.
Quote: There is even an XY female version where the SRY didn't copy over and without it the anti-male genes are expressed and the fetus develops as a sterile female. She will never experience puberty as she's technically asexual, neither ovaries nor testes developed. She literally has no sex organs. She will also lack the hormones normally present and will require medical treatment.
Your here trying to debate all these rare mutations, all of which are sterile. The exception proves the rule.
You contradict yourself. XX which develops as a male is genetically female. However, XXY is genetically male because it develops as a male?
Read it again, very carefully. Then read the article about it, it gloss's over stuff but it's close enough. Learn the difference between genetically and phenotypically.
Here is a hint, the role of the SRY gene is the key to understanding it all.
I do understand the role of the SRY is, what a genotype is, and what a phenotype is. All I am saying is that you cannot black and white say "a male is XY and a female is XX" because it is not correct 100% of the time. Most of the time, but not all of the time.
Exception proves the rule.
All those genetic mutations are sterile. They are mistakes. That may hurt to hear, may even sound harsh and horrible but it's the truth.
Mistake is just misguided. Unfortunate, yes. Does this mean that an advantageous mutation for the sake of evolution was intentional?
Lakshmi.Saevel
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2228
By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-11-12 11:16:02
Bismarck.Annalise said: »Biological sex is much of what you described. Genetics, brain, sex organs, secondary sex characteristics, hormones, etc.
Gender is social constructs in the sense that masculinity and femininity are the traits and behaviors society deems to be male or female. An example would be that women wear skirts. Where is the biological basis for women to wear skirts? There isn't. It's socialized.
Something that is of masculine gender in one society may be feminine in another society. While not exactly a skirt, men in Scottland may wear kilts. Vastly different from gender constructs in other cultures.
That is the difference between the two.
That's irrational, not even a valid logical statement.
You can use that to define anything as whatever you want it to be.
You are horribly wrong about femininity and masculinity. Those are not social constructs. Those are sexual selection mechanisms evolved over the better part of a million years. There is a reason masculine traits are linked to testosterone levels and feminist traits are lined to estrogen levels (amongst a few others).
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2013-11-12 11:19:07
You act like you never jacked your *** to futa
After you read through and find out you've been Admiral Ackbar'd, its the logical conclusion.
[+]
Lakshmi.Saevel
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2228
By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-11-12 11:19:23
Bismarck.Annalise said: »Bismarck.Annalise said: »Bismarck.Annalise said: »Bismarck.Annalise said: »If you are going to define that person as genetically female, how does one define XXY genetically? That is neither male nor female.
It's male, the SRY gene did it's job and suppressed the anti-male genes thus converting the gonads into testes inside the fetus.
The closest you can get to "no sex" the XY female whose sexual organs never developed past fetus stage. Prior to modern medical science she (technically it) would of died fairly young due to the undeveloped gonads becoming cancerous.
Quote: There is even an XY female version where the SRY didn't copy over and without it the anti-male genes are expressed and the fetus develops as a sterile female. She will never experience puberty as she's technically asexual, neither ovaries nor testes developed. She literally has no sex organs. She will also lack the hormones normally present and will require medical treatment.
Your here trying to debate all these rare mutations, all of which are sterile. The exception proves the rule.
You contradict yourself. XX which develops as a male is genetically female. However, XXY is genetically male because it develops as a male?
Read it again, very carefully. Then read the article about it, it gloss's over stuff but it's close enough. Learn the difference between genetically and phenotypically.
Here is a hint, the role of the SRY gene is the key to understanding it all.
I do understand the role of the SRY is, what a genotype is, and what a phenotype is. All I am saying is that you cannot black and white say "a male is XY and a female is XX" because it is not correct 100% of the time. Most of the time, but not all of the time.
Exception proves the rule.
All those genetic mutations are sterile. They are mistakes. That may hurt to hear, may even sound harsh and horrible but it's the truth.
Mistake is just misguided. Unfortunate, yes. Does this mean that an advantageous mutation for the sake of evolution was intentional?
What do you not get about sterile.
Sterile means NO BABIES. No babies means no passing on your mutations. Your genetics get tossed on the evolutionary trash heap along with all the other organisms that failed to breed. Nature has ceased to care about you.
So yes a mistake. Nature f*cks up sometimes, often actually. For millions of years there was a process to weed out the mistakes, this was known as natural selection. The strong survived and made lots and lots of babies, their traits became what we coin masculinity and femininity. The weak perished and became tiger food or never even got sexually selected, we don't know what their traits are because they didn't survive.
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2013-11-12 11:21:01
All those genetic mutations are sterile. They are mistakes. That may hurt to hear, may even sound harsh and horrible but it's the truth.
so what's your end-game?
euthanasia?
Conform or be ostracized.
Ironically, the communist approach to dealing with problems.
[+]
Bismarck.Annalise
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 84
By Bismarck.Annalise 2013-11-12 11:23:56
Bismarck.Annalise said: »Biological sex is much of what you described. Genetics, brain, sex organs, secondary sex characteristics, hormones, etc.
Gender is social constructs in the sense that masculinity and femininity are the traits and behaviors society deems to be male or female. An example would be that women wear skirts. Where is the biological basis for women to wear skirts? There isn't. It's socialized.
Something that is of masculine gender in one society may be feminine in another society. While not exactly a skirt, men in Scottland may wear kilts. Vastly different from gender constructs in other cultures.
That is the difference between the two.
That's irrational, not even a valid logical statement.
You can use that to define anything as whatever you want it to be.
You are horribly wrong about femininity and masculinity. Those are not social constructs. Those are sexual selection mechanisms evolved over the better part of a million years. There is a reason masculine traits are linked to testosterone levels and feminist traits are lined to estrogen levels (amongst a few others).
Then you may want to use your vast intellect to go over to wikipedia and other websites and clean up the parts about socialized gender roles, masculinity, and femininity.
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2013-11-12 11:27:04
Bismarck.Annalise said: »Then you may want to use your vast intellect to go over to wikipedia
I'd check the psychopath entry as well, & see how many boxes you check off.....
[+]
Lakshmi.Saevel
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2228
By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-11-12 11:27:12
All those genetic mutations are sterile. They are mistakes. That may hurt to hear, may even sound harsh and horrible but it's the truth.
so what's your end-game?
euthanasia?
Why do you need to do anything? Randomly doing stuff "because someone has to do something" is the progressive's philosophy. Nature has already built in a recourse for genetic mistakes. We don't need to do anything, let them live a full life in whatever fashion they desire.
Wonderful thing about our final great evolutionary step, higher functioning brains. We're no longer restricted by the constant pressures to just survive. We can actually do insane sh!t like makeup theories about "gender as a social construct" and attempt to convince ourselves that evolution didn't happen.
Try to imagine one male silverback gorilla debating about gender as a social construct with another male silverback gorilla. The idea is insane when you realize their sexual strategy involves viciously attacking other males to establish who gets to have access to the females.
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2013-11-12 11:30:03
let them live a full life in whatever fashion they desire.
that's where the discussion started, people aren't letting them.
[+]
Lakshmi.Saevel
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2228
By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-11-12 11:30:39
Bismarck.Annalise said: »Bismarck.Annalise said: »Biological sex is much of what you described. Genetics, brain, sex organs, secondary sex characteristics, hormones, etc.
Gender is social constructs in the sense that masculinity and femininity are the traits and behaviors society deems to be male or female. An example would be that women wear skirts. Where is the biological basis for women to wear skirts? There isn't. It's socialized.
Something that is of masculine gender in one society may be feminine in another society. While not exactly a skirt, men in Scottland may wear kilts. Vastly different from gender constructs in other cultures.
That is the difference between the two.
That's irrational, not even a valid logical statement.
You can use that to define anything as whatever you want it to be.
You are horribly wrong about femininity and masculinity. Those are not social constructs. Those are sexual selection mechanisms evolved over the better part of a million years. There is a reason masculine traits are linked to testosterone levels and feminist traits are lined to estrogen levels (amongst a few others).
Then you may want to use your vast intellect to go over to wikipedia and other websites and clean up the parts about socialized gender roles, masculinity, and femininity.
Umm you realize feminist foundations are paying university kids to go "spread feminist philosophy" on Wiki right? I wish I was kidding, it's that bad. I wish it was a bad joke, but you can see if if you look at the talk pages. There is a single feminist admin group that controls the social sections involving feminism and masculism.
Lakshmi.Saevel
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2228
By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-11-12 11:32:45
let them live a full life in whatever fashion they desire.
that's where the discussion started, people aren't letting them.
No the discussion started about a wide ambiguous law pertaining to confused K-12 children. Forcing the schools to allow the child to choose a gender and then treating them as though they were that gender without any respect to their actual gender.
People who wish to indulge in a sexual escape fantasy are perfectly allowed to do so. Those people aren't happy in just doing their own thing, they wish to drag others into it and force others to pay for their lifestyle choices.
 Lakshmi.Zerowone
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6949
By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2013-11-12 11:32:50
Did you know the average male silverback gorilla penis is like 1.5" long. Might actually explain a lot about their aggresive behavior?
Bismarck.Annalise
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 84
By Bismarck.Annalise 2013-11-12 11:35:17
All those genetic mutations are sterile. They are mistakes. That may hurt to hear, may even sound harsh and horrible but it's the truth.
so what's your end-game?
euthanasia?
Why do you need to do anything? Randomly doing stuff "because someone has to do something" is the progressive's philosophy. Nature has already built in a recourse for genetic mistakes. We don't need to do anything, let them live a full life in whatever fashion they desire.
Wonderful thing about our final great evolutionary step, higher functioning brains. We're no longer restricted by the constant pressures to just survive. We can actually do insane sh!t like makeup theories about "gender as a social construct" and attempt to convince ourselves that evolution didn't happen.
Try to imagine one male silverback gorilla debating about gender as a social construct with another male silverback gorilla. The idea is insane when you realize their sexual strategy involves viciously attacking other males to establish who gets to have access to the females.
Because gorillas are on par with humans as far as being social creatures, right.
[+]
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-11-12 11:36:21
If we're talking about Saevel that's about accurate.
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2013-11-12 11:36:35
kids do not give two ***.
My daughter would giggle a little bit, & that would be the end of it. kids are a lot more resilient than the sissified coasts give them credit for.
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2013-11-12 11:41:15
Did you know the average male silverback gorilla penis is like 1.5" long. Might actually explain a lot about their aggresive behavior?
Thanks for the midday humor. lol
Lakshmi.Saevel
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2228
By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-11-12 11:51:27
kids do not give two ***.
My daughter would giggle a little bit, & that would be the end of it. kids are a lot more resilient than the sissified coasts give them credit for.
Then explain
Quote: that's where the discussion started, people aren't letting them.
Equate your statement that "people aren't letting them" with your next statement about kids.
Bismarck.Annalise said: »All those genetic mutations are sterile. They are mistakes. That may hurt to hear, may even sound harsh and horrible but it's the truth.
so what's your end-game?
euthanasia?
Why do you need to do anything? Randomly doing stuff "because someone has to do something" is the progressive's philosophy. Nature has already built in a recourse for genetic mistakes. We don't need to do anything, let them live a full life in whatever fashion they desire.
Wonderful thing about our final great evolutionary step, higher functioning brains. We're no longer restricted by the constant pressures to just survive. We can actually do insane sh!t like makeup theories about "gender as a social construct" and attempt to convince ourselves that evolution didn't happen.
Try to imagine one male silverback gorilla debating about gender as a social construct with another male silverback gorilla. The idea is insane when you realize their sexual strategy involves viciously attacking other males to establish who gets to have access to the females.
Because gorillas are on par with humans as far as being social creatures, right.
Funny that you say that.
You do know that we developed using the same mating system they do right? Male humans would aggressively compete with each other to establish dominance. Females would then sexual select out (yes that's right, female humans do the sexual selection not males) top dominate males. Females would compete amongst each other to attract the very top males with the lessor females having to go with the lower end males. This resulted in a genetic distribution of nearly 2:1, 80% of the females got to pass on their genetics while only 40% of the males got to pass on theirs. The top half of that 40% were the real winners and had the majority of children.
We were never pair bonding, we didn't form couples. We had a few dominate males beat the sh!t out of the other males then the females would want to f*ck the males who won. Hence masculinity became aligned with competition, dominance and aggression because female proto-humans selected for that. Femininity became aligned with softness, vulnerability and fertility because top male proto-humans selected their female partners for that. Multiply that effect over a million years then introduce language and social structure at the very end and you have who we are today. We are no different then any other member of the animal kingdom. Merely products of our evolutionary progression.
*Note*
We had a secondary form of sexual competition that took place. After the top males established dominance there was lots of sex that took place, often males would have sex with a female after another male had previous had sex with her. The scope shape of the human penis serves to push competitors semen out of the vagina during intercourse. Also the primal social hierarchy that was formed was a dynamic one, positions would shift and former top males could find themselves beat by another male. As we got smarter the sexual dimorphism got less, it was less about who was strictly bigger and more about who was more aggressive and smarter. Our sexual dimorphism has mostly moved internal.
Nature had one helluva time with our evolutionary developments.
 Caitsith.Zahrah
Server: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-11-12 11:59:02
Well, someone on here has obviously had a rough time with the lady folk whether in the familial, platonic, and/or romantic spheres. :/
I'm still on the fence about wishing him a slew of daughters or if that would be a detriment to them.
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2013-11-12 11:59:29
You know by "people aren't letting them" they mean adults right? Or am I living in a parallel universe where Americans are accepting of transgendered individuals?
Kids for the most part can be taught not to hate. For evidence, look at how millennials feel about gays versus the previous two generation of adults. Unfortunately, transgender is still a controversial topic because it cuts to the core of our western concepts of sexuality.
Even I will admit the topic is still pretty jarring here but that's my ignorance seeping through.
[+]
Lakshmi.Zerowone
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6949
By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2013-11-12 12:02:51
*Note*
We had a secondary form of sexual competition that took place. After the top males established dominance there was lots of sex that took place, often males would have sex with a female after another male had previous had sex with her. The scope shape of the human penis serves to push competitors semen out of the vagina during intercourse. Also the primal social hierarchy that was formed was a dynamic one, positions would shift and former top males could find themselves beat by another male. As we got smarter the sexual dimorphism got less, it was less about who was strictly bigger and more about who was more aggressive and smarter. Our sexual dimorphism has mostly moved internal.
Nature had one helluva time with our evolutionary developments.
That's not exactly accurate though I'm sure it does play some sort of part. In studies where there are sperm samples from two separate sources within the same enviornment, what can only be described as strategic war like tactics take place. Sperm cells will group up and attempt to net and deter progression of their competition. Ultimately resulting in what looks like a cannonball run, where both sides are attempting to thwart the others progression to the ovum.
Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2013-11-12 12:04:14
It's only the lady folk that talk back...
It's much simpler to regress to a point where all that matters is being the stronger mate and then forcing someone else to be subject to that strength...
Bismarck.Annalise
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 84
By Bismarck.Annalise 2013-11-12 12:05:02
kids do not give two ***.
My daughter would giggle a little bit, & that would be the end of it. kids are a lot more resilient than the sissified coasts give them credit for.
Then explain
Quote: that's where the discussion started, people aren't letting them.
Equate your statement that "people aren't letting them" with your next statement about kids.
Bismarck.Annalise said: »All those genetic mutations are sterile. They are mistakes. That may hurt to hear, may even sound harsh and horrible but it's the truth.
so what's your end-game?
euthanasia?
Why do you need to do anything? Randomly doing stuff "because someone has to do something" is the progressive's philosophy. Nature has already built in a recourse for genetic mistakes. We don't need to do anything, let them live a full life in whatever fashion they desire.
Wonderful thing about our final great evolutionary step, higher functioning brains. We're no longer restricted by the constant pressures to just survive. We can actually do insane sh!t like makeup theories about "gender as a social construct" and attempt to convince ourselves that evolution didn't happen.
Try to imagine one male silverback gorilla debating about gender as a social construct with another male silverback gorilla. The idea is insane when you realize their sexual strategy involves viciously attacking other males to establish who gets to have access to the females.
Because gorillas are on par with humans as far as being social creatures, right.
Funny that you say that.
You do know that we developed using the same mating system they do right? Male humans would aggressively compete with each other to establish dominance. Females would then sexual select out (yes that's right, female humans do the sexual selection not males) top dominate males. Females would compete amongst each other to attract the very top males with the lessor females having to go with the lower end males. This resulted in a genetic distribution of nearly 2:1, 80% of the females got to pass on their genetics while only 40% of the males got to pass on theirs. The top half of that 40% were the real winners and had the majority of children.
We were never pair bonding, we didn't form couples. We had a few dominate males beat the sh!t out of the other males then the females would want to f*ck the males who won. Hence masculinity became aligned with competition, dominance and aggression because female proto-humans selected for that. Femininity became aligned with softness, vulnerability and fertility because top male proto-humans selected their female partners for that. Multiply that effect over a million years then introduce language and social structure at the very end and you have who we are today. We are no different then any other member of the animal kingdom. Merely products of our evolutionary progression.
*Note*
We had a secondary form of sexual competition that took place. After the top males established dominance there was lots of sex that took place, often males would have sex with a female after another male had previous had sex with her. The scope shape of the human penis serves to push competitors semen out of the vagina during intercourse. Also the primal social hierarchy that was formed was a dynamic one, positions would shift and former top males could find themselves beat by another male. As we got smarter the sexual dimorphism got less, it was less about who was strictly bigger and more about who was more aggressive and smarter. Our sexual dimorphism has mostly moved internal.
Nature had one helluva time with our evolutionary developments.
Yeah, I get all that. Arctic foxes are another good example with their recent domestication and the impact it has had on their traits and behavior through artificial selection.
There are also avian species with penises that sweep out competing semen. Bees have their penises detach to plug the vagina so that other males cannot mate with the female. I do know of many of these things as well.
But that's still only part of it. I know of one professor who attempted to raise her children "gender neutral" as in giving them greens and yellows and whatever toys. Didn't try to expose them to anything masculine or feminine, tell them something was masculine or feminine or discourage anything.
The moment the children went to preschool? It was like flipping a light switch. The girl wanted to wear pink dresses, the boy wanted to play with boy toys. Children pick this stuff up quickly from society.
There is a social component to genderization. People often subscribe to things because they are social norms.
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2013-11-12 12:06:11
Equate your statement that "people aren't letting them" with your next statement about kids.
I was stating that adults aren't letting people live their lives how they seem fit.
you jumped straight into a wide ambiguous law pertaining to confused K-12 children. Forcing the schools to allow the child to choose a gender and then treating them as though they were that gender without any respect to their actual gender.
kids are still compassionate, unlike some of us, and don't have the weird hang-ups that we prescribe ourselves. I am stating that this isn't an issue of "protecting the kids" & even if it was, kids don't need all the protection that some would try to afford them.
did I really just have to explain that you changed the parameters of the discussion, so I followed along?
you're taking some of the fun out of this.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-11-12 12:09:08
I didn't like showing my body to ANYONE in school. I remember us lining up as LEANING into the urinals in like second grade because we weren't trying to let other people see our ***.
Because a diverse and tolerant world is a terrifying thought to the people that push these kinds of initiatives.
I didn't realise that 51+% of the population grew up in nudist colonies, but not wanting the opposite sex to see my *** (unless I want them to see it, or we're intimate) is "normal" to me. I had no idea that having modesty in the presence of the opposite sex was being intolerant. If that's the case I'll be happy to start ripping clothes off women everywhere while yelling at how close-minded and intolerant they are.
I don't really give a ***what sex you think you are or wish you were. I care what parts you do have now. I'm leaving the entirety of the "mental" aspect out of this. Physically you have an innie and I have an outie. Society (normal society, not this BARBARIC AND INTOLERANT MASS OF IGNORANT PLEBS) has always had it be decent that you don't show the male ends to the females and vice versa. Just like women feel this pressure to present a certain image to men, men feel the same in reverse.
I would rather have a gay man see my bits and pieces than anything that was born female. To me it's not about "does this being want to *** me", it's "does my mind naturally assume this is a mate for me?". My nature is that the opposite sex judges me as a suitable mate, and my natural self-consciousness (and thinking all people will magically become ambivalent to their self-image) is ignorant. Inconveniencing the majority to suit the "wants" (not needs) of the grossly vast minority is equally stupid. One in 100 people feel silly going into the bathroom they're supposed to so let's infringe on the rights of the 99.
Got it. That was a bit of a late night angry rant directed more at these traditional values organizations so I can see how harsh it sounds, but I stick to the underlying point that acknowledgement of the complexity of an issue such as transgender makes people uncomfortable, which in turn can lead to avoidance or outright denial. I understand we're all the product of hard-to-shake social mores, but the world those rules arose from was never as clearly defined as we would like to think (or what those organizations would like it to be). Boys like girls, boys like boys, girls like girls, girls identify as boys, whatever. These phenomena aren't new, but their recognition and eventual reconciliations are.
It's impossible to divorce the mental aspect from something like this (evidenced by your entire argument being psychological), because it is at the crux of the conversation. If you don't want to expose your genitals to someone of the opposite biological sex, then simply don't. They likely have as much interest in seeing your *** as you do of the guy next to you.
Lakshmi.Zerowone
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6949
By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2013-11-12 12:09:32
It's only the lady folk that talk back...
It's much simpler to regress to a point where all that matters is being the stronger mate and then forcing someone else to be subject to that strength...
Shut your man pleaser! And get back into the kitchen NAO!!
^_^<3uFlavin.
[+]
Calif. Transgender Law Repeal Will Qualify
Quote: SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — Opponents of a new California law that gives transgender students certain rights said Sunday that they had collected enough signatures for an initiative that would repeal the law.
A coalition of conservative groups called Privacy for all Students submitted 620,000 signatures to get the initiative on the November 2014 ballot, said Frank Schubert, the political strategist handling the signature gathering effort.
To qualify, at least 505,000 valid signatures must be submitted. To verify the signatures, each of California’s 58 counties will first check that the overall count is correct, then conduct a random sampling to make sure they are legitimate. After that, it is likely the state would order a full review.
If, after all of the reviews, the group has the requisite number of valid signatures, the initiative would qualify for the ballot.
“Many people said we had no chance to collect over half a million signatures in just 90 days, but we have proven them wrong by gathering over 115,000 more signatures than the minimum needed,” Gina Gleason of the group Faith and Public Policy, said in a statement.
California is the first state to pass a law detailing the rights of transgender K-12 students.
One of the provisions gives transgender students the choice of playing on either boys or girls sports teams. It also allows them to choose which restroom that want to use.
Gov. Jerry Brown signed the law, AB1266, in September. It goes into effect Jan. 1.
The goal of the law is to reduce discrimination against transgender students.
John O’Connor, executive director of Equality California, the organization that co-sponsored the transgender student law, said he was alarmed by the initiative effort.
“Protecting this law is our number one priority, and we will put everything we’ve got into it,” O’Connor said, adding that he believes public opinion is opposed to discrimination against LGBT people.
The effort to repeal the law got a boost last month when the National Organization for Marriage, which organized the 2008 ballot initiative that outlawed gay marriage in California, joined the effort.
Schubert, who helped organize the signature push, previously led successful campaigns to block same-sex marriage in Maine and North Carolina.
Supporters of the repeal effort argue the law violates the privacy of non-transgender students.
They said 400,000 of the signatures gathered were done by volunteers, as opposed to 220,000 collected by paid staff.
“It shows the degree of opposition that exists to opening the most vulnerable areas of public schools to the opposite sex,” Karen England of Capitol Resources Institute, a coalition member, said in a statement.
This whole story reminds me of the scene from Gun Hill Road, and the transgender student takes the key to the girls restroom everytime and the teacher lectures her parents about it.
I'm perfectly fine with this so long as they are formally diagnosed transgenders(regarding the restroom issue). I'm wondering if K-12 institutions can request that information from their physician or if it falls under patient confidentiality? If anyone could shed light on that- much appreciated :)
I think it's awesome about the sports teams, I think they should apply it to non-trans students too. I knew several girls who wanted to play on the wrestling team in HS and they had the size to back it up.
Quite sad that Veterans Day in California has turned into a rally against transgenders.
|
|
